Veganism and health.

[Woodznutz]

Thank you for that honest reply.

It ranks right up there with Burmese pythons and dirty lakes.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Do you understand this Scripture?
"'We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not mourn."

Different approaches have been tried. The science. Memes. Health. Morality.

You are given the information. From a Christian perspective, that's all we can do. Now it's on you

 

[gipper]

My goal is to WARN people that there are consequences for ABUSING God's Creation and HIS directive to be honorable STEWARDS over HIS Creation

But you are right about unsolicited "advice.' Still, the Christian MUST speak

You’re not a Christian Carl in Mecca.

Supporting a genocide disqualifies you. Down you go.

 

[gipper]

Do you understand this Scripture?
"'We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not mourn."

Different approaches have been tried. The science. Memes. Health. Morality.

You are given the information. From a Christian perspective, that's all we can do. Now it's on you

Lol. Jesus wants nothing to do with you.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

It ranks right up there with Burmese pythons and dirty lakes.

God has His tools too

 

[Woodznutz]

I agree that animals should be killed in a humane way.

Edit.
Except invasive species.

 

[Woodznutz]

God has His tools too

What is your position on invasive animal species like the Burmese python and feral hogs?

 

[The Irish Ram]

My goal is to WARN people that there are consequences for ABUSING God's Creation and HIS directive to be honorable STEWARDS over HIS Creation

But you are right about unsolicited "advice.' Still, the Christian MUST speak

But, here's the thing on a scriptural level. While fruits and vegetables are good for us, there is nothing < as in no thing, that we eat that defiles the Temple. It isn't what goes in our mouths, but what comes out of it that defiles the Temple.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

But, here's the thing on a scriptural level. While fruits and vegetables are good for us, there is nothing < as in no thing, that we eat that defiles the Temple. It isn't what goes in our mouths, but what comes out of it that defiles the Temple.

Don't have the desire to deal with this today. Maybe buttercup whom I trust, is willing. But read Matthew 15 entire chapter and notice what it is and is not speaking about

 

[The Irish Ram]

There is nothing to deal with. It is pretty much self-explanatory. Especially when Christ reiterates it:

Matthew 15:10-12 Jesus called the crowd to Him and said, “Listen and understand. A man is not defiled by what enters his mouth, but by what comes out of it.” Then the disciples came to Him and said, “Are You aware that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?"

Mark14-15 Once again Jesus called the crowd to Him and said, “All of you, listen to Me and understand: Nothing that enters a man from the outside can defile him; but the things that come out of a man, these are what defile him.


1 Corinthians 8:8
But food does not bring us closer to God: We are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.

1 Timothy 4:4
For every creation of God is good, and nothing that is received with thanksgiving should be rejected.

Genesis 9:3
Everything that lives and moves will be food for you; just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you all things.

Veganism may or may not be more healthy for the body, but from a scriptural standpoint, nothing taken outwardly in defiles the Temple.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Here is an example.
At a Bible study I listened to them go on about how a glass of wine, or a cocktail, harms the brain cells and defiles the Temple. I was talking to that person a few hours later as she went on and on about how horrible Catholics were. And I thought to myself, you have missed the whole meaning of defiling the temple...
Her brain cells may have been intact, but her heart certainly was not...

 

[Woodznutz]

Don't have the desire to deal with this today. Maybe buttercup whom I trust, is willing. But read Matthew 15 entire chapter and notice what it is and is not speaking about

It says that not only are fish good to eat but Jesus himself provided fish for nearly 10,000 Israelites.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

It says that not only are fish good to eat but Jesus himself provided fish for nearly 10,000 Israelites.

You know better but you do enjoy recycling

 

[Woodznutz]

You know better but you do enjoy recycling

That's one of most familiar stories in the Bible.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

That's one of most familiar stories in the Bible.

And you still won't get it right

…we see that Jesus Himself refers to the miracle of the feeding of the five thousand and the…four thousand and never mentions fish,” says Ryan Hicks in his book, Why Every Christian Should Be A Vegan.

When I looked into the Bible for verification, I was happy to see that this was so.

(Jesus said) When I brake the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him twelve. And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? and they said, Seven. Mark 8:19-20

(Jesus said) Do ye not yet understand neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets ye took up? Neither the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets ye took up? Matthew 16:9-10

 

[Woodznutz]

And you still won't get it right

…we see that Jesus Himself refers to the miracle of the feeding of the five thousand and the…four thousand and never mentions fish,” says Ryan Hicks in his book, Why Every Christian Should Be A Vegan.

When I looked into the Bible for verification, I was happy to see that this was so.

(Jesus said) When I brake the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him twelve. And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? and they said, Seven. Mark 8:19-20

(Jesus said) Do ye not yet understand neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets ye took up? Neither the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets ye took up? Matthew 16:9-10

View attachment 1133090

And he took the seven loaves and the fishes, and gave thanks, and brake them, and gave to his disciples, and the disciples to the multitude.

37And they did all eat, and were filled: and they took up of the broken meat that was left seven baskets full.

I'm guessing the multitudes ate all the fish, so there was none to gather up, or even mention.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Christ's breakfast menu:

John 21:8-10 The other disciples came ashore in the boat. They dragged in the net full of fish, for they were not far from land, only about a hundred yards. When they landed, they saw a charcoal fire there with fish on it, and some bread. Jesus told them, “Bring some of the fish you have just caught.


Luke 24:42 So they gave Him a piece of broiled fish, and He took it and ate it in front of them.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

But, here's the thing on a scriptural level. While fruits and vegetables are good for us, there is nothing < as in no thing, that we eat that defiles the Temple. It isn't what goes in our mouths, but what comes out of it that defiles the Temple.

Okay, I'm feeling a little better now as the evening has dropped the temps to almost tolerable levels.

When I was 19 or 20 years old I came to the understanding that God forbade the eating of certain animals. While He TOLERATES our ignorance and our lust for killing FOR NOW, He told us at MINIMUM do not eat THESE animals for a number of reasons. But the ONLY reason that matters, IS BECAUSE HE SAID SO. Like the loving Father He is, that should be enough if you are converted.

I am not Catholic. Neither am I Protestant. They are the Daughter churches and bow down to the Mother on so many things.

Protestants always used that Scripture to dissuade me from avoiding unclean meats. But I have never eaten unclean meats since 19 or 20, and that was so many decades ago.

But the topic of Matthew 15 is neither of those things. It is about the ceremonial washing of hands, not eating UNCLEAN meat, nor any other meat.

What if you're Jeffery Dahmer and you just carved up a guy you picked up at a gay night club? Are you "defiled" now?

In fact in the BEGINNING God TOLD us what food was. When the Israelites wondered in the wilderness God gave them what was described as PLANT BASED food.

Daniel and the other three refused the kings meat for a PLANT BASED diet.

In the Millennium -- God's Sabbath Rest -- your diet will be PLANT BASED. You will not be permitted to kill because you enjoy the taste of that innocent creature.

Yes, you ARE defiled when you understand a TRUTH but violate your conscience

 

[Carl in Michigan]

And he took the seven loaves and the fishes, and gave thanks, and brake them, and gave to his disciples, and the disciples to the multitude.

37And they did all eat, and were filled: and they took up of the broken meat that was left seven baskets full.

I'm guessing the multitudes ate all the fish, so there was none to gather up, or even mention.

This is a copy/paste but I really don't feel like doing this for the thousandth time:

Myth #77a: “But Jesus ate fish.”​

It is indeed true that Jesus appears to support the eating of meat (mostly fish) at a number of points within the Bible’s texts, and there are two ways to go about responding to this claim – first, to gently illuminate the relevant Biblical verses; and second, to humbly assume that this myth is correct and then look at the practical, present-day implications thereof. First things first — a Biblical illumination:

*Passage #01 — Luke 22:7-8 does indeed have Jesus telling his disciples to prepare the Passover meal, and yet interestingly enough it never once has him telling them to obtain, cook or serve a Passover lamb therewith. Indeed, if we read the telling of the tale of the Last Supper, this lamb is completely missing from the story! In fact, there are no scripture passages in the entire Bible where Jesus himself actually ate lamb, which he would most assuredly have eaten at Passover — had he not been vegan. In fact, in the Bible we see Jesus eating on the Passover exactly twice, and curiously enough neither time is lamb involved at all; with Jesus and the disciples instead partaking only of unleavened bread at those celebrations.



*Passage #02 — Luke 24:41-43 does indeed show the disciples giving Jesus “a broiled fish and some honeycomb”, and yet then it also notes that “he took it and ate it in their presence” — not “them”, but “it”. Now, we can draw the conclusion that Jesus made the relatively compassionless choice to eat the fish and abandon the honeycomb, and yet according to a literal reading of the scripture he most certainly did not eat both of them. Indeed, we are also allowed to draw the opposite inference; namely, that he abandoned the fish and ate the comb. And it is this interpretation that is actually much more in alignment with Messianic “prophecy” of Isaiah 7:15, which states quite clearly that “By the time he knows enough to refuse evil and choose good, he [the Messiah] will eat only butter and honey.” (Granted, neither butter not honey are purely vegan foods, and neither one of them is meat, and the harvest of neither caused much suffering to animals in Jesus’ day & age.)

It might also be of interest to earnest students of scripture that this story is only told in the Gospel of Luke – and this, despite the authors of the other Gospels being present. It is also interesting that Luke tells the same story again in the 10th chapter of the book of Acts, and yet he tells it quite differently when he does so (not mentioning fish at all in the second telling) — and that when John describes the same event in John 20, Jesus is seen actually eating nothing at all.

*Passages #03 & #04 — Matthew 14:13-21 & Matthew 15:32-39 (see also parallel passages in Mark 6:30-44 & Mark 8:1-10) … These two texts both have Jesus telling his disciples to feed two large groups of followers (first “the 5000” and later “the 4000”) and both times fish are mentioned as one of the foods given to them (“two fish” in Matthew 14:17 & “a few fish” in Matthew 15:34). On its face, this would indeed seem to support the contention that Jesus approved the eating of meat, and yet there is much more to these verses than first meets the eye.

Initially, it is interesting to note that some scholars (Rosen and Knicely among them) contend that “fish” are not present in these texts at all – that in actuality the Greek word for “fishweed” (a form of dried seaweed) has been mistranslated as “fish” in these verses. While it is true that the ancient Greek words for seaweed (φῦκος / fukos + μνίον / mnion) are not specifically found in the Bible’s ancient manuscripts, it is just as true that such a mistranslation could very easily have occurred – and it is most certainly true that dried fishweed would be far more likely than fish to be served in a basket of bread. Indeed, a type of “fishweed” even remains a popular food to this day among coastal Palestinian peasants – people quite similar to the ones to whom Jesus was speaking in these stories. It is interesting to note as well that both Biblical feedings took place on the shoreline & that at least a few of Jesus’ disciples were fishermen by trade, meaning that if people had really wanted to eat fish, they simply would have had to go and catch some for themselves. Indeed, a careful reading of Matthew 14 shows that Jesus only divided the loaves of bread and only gave bread to the people gathered there – and that afterwards, the baskets were only filled with remnants of bread – not fish. Additionally, more than a few scholars have noted that there is quite a bit of evidence to suggest that the original story never included fish at all. The earliest pre-Gospel accounts of the feed-the-masses stories do not include fish, and Jesus himself never mentions fish when later referring to those events (see Matthew 16:5-12, Mark 8:19-20 & John 6:26) … Finally, it is well worth remembering that Jesus called his first disciples by asking them to cease fishing and follow him instead (see Matthew 3, Mark 1 & Luke 5); clearly resembling his later calls to tax collectors, prostitutes and others engaged in activities not in harmony with his message of Love & Compassion to “sin no more”.

As such, it seems much more likely than not that neither “fish” nor “fishweed” were present in the original telling of these tales, but rather that — just like the last 12 verses of the Gospel of Mark and the last chapter of the Gospel of John – scribes added words to the original texts for their own religious purposes (in this case, to insert the Greek word “fish” (ixous) – whose letters formed a then-popular acronym for “Jesus Christ God’s Son Savior”).

 

[The Irish Ram]

Genesis 9:3 Everything that lives and moves will be food for you; just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you all things.
Vegan and carnivore.
If you don't believe that, then what does all things mean to you?

God was the first one to kill an earthly animal. God sat at the campfire and ate stew with Abraham. Jesus told the disciples where to throw their nets to catch fish, not to cease from catching fish. He cooked fish for the disciples. He ate fish in front of them.
Was He wrong to do so?
If you are relying on Mosaic Law for your menu, we are under a better covenant. Jesus said it's ok to eat fish and proved it by eating it Himself.