V 22 Osprey

[okfine]

The idea was long before the internet. I first read about in Popular Mechanics/Science in the early 1980's. It had a long gestation period. It was supposed to be a public passenger aircraft also. For short jaunts and to fly onto high rise rooftop landing areas. I have not seen that. It may exist though. If not, why? Is there still a potential safety issue? It was also designed for the Soviet era conflicts and has had an issue with its wings in desert areas. And there are differences in different types of desert areas and the uplifting of sand into the surrounding environment. this may/or has affected some types of transport and missions. Not trying to sound negative. And there has to be a lot of positives. For this craft will be here for the duration.

It takes a spotter to land because of the cloud it makes under it. POS.

I'll call BS on that otherwise every helicopter landing would require a spotter. I've never seen any in my experience and that includes landing in unimproved LZs in Vietnam.

Takes damn near 2 minutes to land. Makes it a huge target.

"In February 2009, however, reports surfaced that V-22 downwash was so heavy, that it could blow other helicopters off of the amphibious assault ships’ flight decks. Gannet’s Marine Corps Times

:

“For example, Kouskouris said flight deck operators [on the USS Bataan] are reluctant to land an Osprey next to smaller helicopters such as the AH-1 Super Cobra or the UH-1 Huey because the tilt rotors’ massive downdraft could blow the smaller aircraft off a deck spot. He has formally asked for this restriction to be included in the Osprey’s future training programs.”

Ever been in one, ever been in a helicopter, ever even been in the military? My guess is none of the above.
Well I suppose that excludes computer games which you may have some personal experience with.

You can guess all you want. What does that have to do with what I posted? At $100 million each? About all they are good for is hauling supplies from land to carriers. That is what the Navy plans on using them for. They take up so much deck space and if the deck is occupied... good luck.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

The idea was long before the internet. I first read about in Popular Mechanics/Science in the early 1980's. It had a long gestation period. It was supposed to be a public passenger aircraft also. For short jaunts and to fly onto high rise rooftop landing areas. I have not seen that. It may exist though. If not, why? Is there still a potential safety issue? It was also designed for the Soviet era conflicts and has had an issue with its wings in desert areas. And there are differences in different types of desert areas and the uplifting of sand into the surrounding environment. this may/or has affected some types of transport and missions. Not trying to sound negative. And there has to be a lot of positives. For this craft will be here for the duration.

It takes a spotter to land because of the cloud it makes under it. POS.

I'll call BS on that otherwise every helicopter landing would require a spotter. I've never seen any in my experience and that includes landing in unimproved LZs in Vietnam.

Takes damn near 2 minutes to land. Makes it a huge target.

"In February 2009, however, reports surfaced that V-22 downwash was so heavy, that it could blow other helicopters off of the amphibious assault ships’ flight decks. Gannet’s Marine Corps Times

:

“For example, Kouskouris said flight deck operators [on the USS Bataan] are reluctant to land an Osprey next to smaller helicopters such as the AH-1 Super Cobra or the UH-1 Huey because the tilt rotors’ massive downdraft could blow the smaller aircraft off a deck spot. He has formally asked for this restriction to be included in the Osprey’s future training programs.”

Ever been in one, ever been in a helicopter, ever even been in the military? My guess is none of the above.
Well I suppose that excludes computer games which you may have some personal experience with.

You can guess all you want. What does that have to do with what I posted? At $100 million each? About all they are good for is hauling supplies from land to carriers. That is what the Navy plans on using them for.

Whats not to like about a delivery system that can carry far more weight than a helicopter?

 

[okfine]

It takes a spotter to land because of the cloud it makes under it. POS.

I'll call BS on that otherwise every helicopter landing would require a spotter. I've never seen any in my experience and that includes landing in unimproved LZs in Vietnam.

Takes damn near 2 minutes to land. Makes it a huge target.

"In February 2009, however, reports surfaced that V-22 downwash was so heavy, that it could blow other helicopters off of the amphibious assault ships’ flight decks. Gannet’s Marine Corps Times

:

“For example, Kouskouris said flight deck operators [on the USS Bataan] are reluctant to land an Osprey next to smaller helicopters such as the AH-1 Super Cobra or the UH-1 Huey because the tilt rotors’ massive downdraft could blow the smaller aircraft off a deck spot. He has formally asked for this restriction to be included in the Osprey’s future training programs.”

Ever been in one, ever been in a helicopter, ever even been in the military? My guess is none of the above.
Well I suppose that excludes computer games which you may have some personal experience with.

You can guess all you want. What does that have to do with what I posted? At $100 million each? About all they are good for is hauling supplies from land to carriers. That is what the Navy plans on using them for.

Whats not to like about a delivery system that can carry far more weight than a helicopter?

Combined with cost is 40 deaths.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I'll call BS on that otherwise every helicopter landing would require a spotter. I've never seen any in my experience and that includes landing in unimproved LZs in Vietnam.

Takes damn near 2 minutes to land. Makes it a huge target.

"In February 2009, however, reports surfaced that V-22 downwash was so heavy, that it could blow other helicopters off of the amphibious assault ships’ flight decks. Gannet’s Marine Corps Times

:

“For example, Kouskouris said flight deck operators [on the USS Bataan] are reluctant to land an Osprey next to smaller helicopters such as the AH-1 Super Cobra or the UH-1 Huey because the tilt rotors’ massive downdraft could blow the smaller aircraft off a deck spot. He has formally asked for this restriction to be included in the Osprey’s future training programs.”

Ever been in one, ever been in a helicopter, ever even been in the military? My guess is none of the above.
Well I suppose that excludes computer games which you may have some personal experience with.

You can guess all you want. What does that have to do with what I posted? At $100 million each? About all they are good for is hauling supplies from land to carriers. That is what the Navy plans on using them for.

Whats not to like about a delivery system that can carry far more weight than a helicopter?

Combined with cost is 40 deaths.

How many died when the helicopter was first introduced?

 

[okfine]

Takes damn near 2 minutes to land. Makes it a huge target.

"In February 2009, however, reports surfaced that V-22 downwash was so heavy, that it could blow other helicopters off of the amphibious assault ships’ flight decks. Gannet’s Marine Corps Times

:

“For example, Kouskouris said flight deck operators [on the USS Bataan] are reluctant to land an Osprey next to smaller helicopters such as the AH-1 Super Cobra or the UH-1 Huey because the tilt rotors’ massive downdraft could blow the smaller aircraft off a deck spot. He has formally asked for this restriction to be included in the Osprey’s future training programs.”

Ever been in one, ever been in a helicopter, ever even been in the military? My guess is none of the above.
Well I suppose that excludes computer games which you may have some personal experience with.

You can guess all you want. What does that have to do with what I posted? At $100 million each? About all they are good for is hauling supplies from land to carriers. That is what the Navy plans on using them for.

Whats not to like about a delivery system that can carry far more weight than a helicopter?

Combined with cost is 40 deaths.

How many died when the helicopter was first introduced?

As a prototype, during field testing, or in service? Don't know. Enlighten me.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Ever been in one, ever been in a helicopter, ever even been in the military? My guess is none of the above.
Well I suppose that excludes computer games which you may have some personal experience with.

You can guess all you want. What does that have to do with what I posted? At $100 million each? About all they are good for is hauling supplies from land to carriers. That is what the Navy plans on using them for.

Whats not to like about a delivery system that can carry far more weight than a helicopter?

Combined with cost is 40 deaths.

How many died when the helicopter was first introduced?

As a prototype, during field testing, or in service? Don't know. Enlighten me.

WTF does that have to do with it?
I will say far more have died in helicopters overall for obvious reasons.
But you made the claim they were responsible for 40 deaths yet didnt qualify the reason.
So I ask again....how many died when the helicopter went into service?

And just so you cant weasel out here is your statement and mine:

How many died when the helicopter was first introduced?[/QUOTE]
As a prototype, during field testing, or in service? Don't know. Enlighten me.[/QUOTE]

Enlightening me would be your job skippy. You're the one up in arms.

 

[okfine]

You can guess all you want. What does that have to do with what I posted? At $100 million each? About all they are good for is hauling supplies from land to carriers. That is what the Navy plans on using them for.

Whats not to like about a delivery system that can carry far more weight than a helicopter?

Combined with cost is 40 deaths.

How many died when the helicopter was first introduced?

As a prototype, during field testing, or in service? Don't know. Enlighten me.

WTF does that have to do with it?
I will say far more have died in helicopters overall for obvious reasons.
But you made the claim they were responsible for 40 deaths yet didnt qualify the reason.
So I ask again....how many died when the helicopter went into service?

And just so you cant weasel out here is your statement and mine:

How many died when the helicopter was first introduced?

As a prototype, during field testing, or in service? Don't know. Enlighten me.[/QUOTE]

Enlightening me would be your job skippy. You're the one up in arms.[/QUOTE]
You brought up helicopters. Not me. V 2 is a tilt-rotor aircraft in case you didn't know.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Whats not to like about a delivery system that can carry far more weight than a helicopter?

Combined with cost is 40 deaths.

How many died when the helicopter was first introduced?

As a prototype, during field testing, or in service? Don't know. Enlighten me.

WTF does that have to do with it?
I will say far more have died in helicopters overall for obvious reasons.
But you made the claim they were responsible for 40 deaths yet didnt qualify the reason.
So I ask again....how many died when the helicopter went into service?

And just so you cant weasel out here is your statement and mine:

How many died when the helicopter was first introduced?

As a prototype, during field testing, or in service? Don't know. Enlighten me.

Enlightening me would be your job skippy. You're the one up in arms.[/QUOTE]
You brought up helicopters. Not me. V 2 is a tilt-rotor aircraft in case you didn't know.[/QUOTE]

Wow....what a pathetic dodge.
You claim only 40 people died in the Osprey yet you cant tell me how many died in the helicopter?

Eeeeeer.....derpity derp derp tilt wing aircraft derp

Whats not to like about a delivery system that can carry far more weight than a helicopter?

Combined with cost is 40 deaths.

How many died when the helicopter was first introduced?

As a prototype, during field testing, or in service? Don't know. Enlighten me.

WTF does that have to do with it?
I will say far more have died in helicopters overall for obvious reasons.
But you made the claim they were responsible for 40 deaths yet didnt qualify the reason.
So I ask again....how many died when the helicopter went into service?

And just so you cant weasel out here is your statement and mine:

How many died when the helicopter was first introduced?

As a prototype, during field testing, or in service? Don't know. Enlighten me.

Enlightening me would be your job skippy. You're the one up in arms.[/QUOTE]
You brought up helicopters. Not me. V 2 is a tilt-rotor aircraft in case you didn't know.[/QUOTE]

I'm not the one who brought up 40 dead in the Osprey you did.
If you want to continue to try and say the old ass helicopters with very limited capacity are better you need to prove your point.
And that includes the history of helicopter deaths since YOU brought them up.
I wont even ask you to consider deaths during operations,again for obvious reasons.
I want the number of deaths in the development of the helicopter.
If you cant post em you need to STFU.

 

[harmonica]

The idea was long before the internet. I first read about in Popular Mechanics/Science in the early 1980's. It had a long gestation period. It was supposed to be a public passenger aircraft also. For short jaunts and to fly onto high rise rooftop landing areas. I have not seen that. It may exist though. If not, why? Is there still a potential safety issue? It was also designed for the Soviet era conflicts and has had an issue with its wings in desert areas. And there are differences in different types of desert areas and the uplifting of sand into the surrounding environment. this may/or has affected some types of transport and missions. Not trying to sound negative. And there has to be a lot of positives. For this craft will be here for the duration.

It takes a spotter to land because of the cloud it makes under it. POS.

I flew on many CH53s and 46s
.....

 

[22lcidw]

Is there a helicopter/tilt rotor in service or one that may be in development that can fly into desert areas with a minimum of dust kick up?

 

[Ringel05]

Whats not to like about a delivery system that can carry far more weight than a helicopter?

Combined with cost is 40 deaths.

How many died when the helicopter was first introduced?

As a prototype, during field testing, or in service? Don't know. Enlighten me.

WTF does that have to do with it?
I will say far more have died in helicopters overall for obvious reasons.
But you made the claim they were responsible for 40 deaths yet didnt qualify the reason.
So I ask again....how many died when the helicopter went into service?

And just so you cant weasel out here is your statement and mine:

How many died when the helicopter was first introduced?

As a prototype, during field testing, or in service? Don't know. Enlighten me.

Enlightening me would be your job skippy. You're the one up in arms.[/QUOTE]
You brought up helicopters. Not me. V 2 is a tilt-rotor aircraft in case you didn't know.[/QUOTE]


Actually no, you're the one "up in arms" focusing only on the limited negatives about the Osprey that were completely overcome a while ago. Why? I don't know.
HereWeGo was making a comparison, if you won't qualify your "40 deaths" claim why should he have to jump hurdles for you to prove his claim?

 

[okfine]

Combined with cost is 40 deaths.

How many died when the helicopter was first introduced?

As a prototype, during field testing, or in service? Don't know. Enlighten me.

WTF does that have to do with it?
I will say far more have died in helicopters overall for obvious reasons.
But you made the claim they were responsible for 40 deaths yet didnt qualify the reason.
So I ask again....how many died when the helicopter went into service?

And just so you cant weasel out here is your statement and mine:

How many died when the helicopter was first introduced?

As a prototype, during field testing, or in service? Don't know. Enlighten me.

Enlightening me would be your job skippy. You're the one up in arms.

You brought up helicopters. Not me. V 2 is a tilt-rotor aircraft in case you didn't know.[/QUOTE]

Wow....what a pathetic dodge.
You claim only 40 people died in the Osprey yet you cant tell me how many died in the helicopter?

Eeeeeer.....derpity derp derp tilt wing aircraft derp

Combined with cost is 40 deaths.

How many died when the helicopter was first introduced?

As a prototype, during field testing, or in service? Don't know. Enlighten me.

WTF does that have to do with it?
I will say far more have died in helicopters overall for obvious reasons.
But you made the claim they were responsible for 40 deaths yet didnt qualify the reason.
So I ask again....how many died when the helicopter went into service?

And just so you cant weasel out here is your statement and mine:

How many died when the helicopter was first introduced?

As a prototype, during field testing, or in service? Don't know. Enlighten me.

Enlightening me would be your job skippy. You're the one up in arms.[/QUOTE]
You brought up helicopters. Not me. V 2 is a tilt-rotor aircraft in case you didn't know.[/QUOTE]

I'm not the one who brought up 40 dead in the Osprey you did.
If you want to continue to try and say the old ass helicopters with very limited capacity are better you need to prove your point.
And that includes the history of helicopter deaths since YOU brought them up.
I wont even ask you to consider deaths during operations,again for obvious reasons.
I want the number of deaths in the development of the helicopter.
If you cant post em you need to STFU.[/QUOTE]

The topic is V 2 Osprey and you wandered off. You like to twist don't you. Waste of time. And FU too.

Accidents and incidents involving the V-22 Osprey - Wikipedia

 

[RetiredGySgt]

How many died when the helicopter was first introduced?

As a prototype, during field testing, or in service? Don't know. Enlighten me.

WTF does that have to do with it?
I will say far more have died in helicopters overall for obvious reasons.
But you made the claim they were responsible for 40 deaths yet didnt qualify the reason.
So I ask again....how many died when the helicopter went into service?

And just so you cant weasel out here is your statement and mine:

How many died when the helicopter was first introduced?

As a prototype, during field testing, or in service? Don't know. Enlighten me.

Enlightening me would be your job skippy. You're the one up in arms.

You brought up helicopters. Not me. V 2 is a tilt-rotor aircraft in case you didn't know.

Wow....what a pathetic dodge.
You claim only 40 people died in the Osprey yet you cant tell me how many died in the helicopter?

Eeeeeer.....derpity derp derp tilt wing aircraft derp

Combined with cost is 40 deaths.

How many died when the helicopter was first introduced?

As a prototype, during field testing, or in service? Don't know. Enlighten me.

WTF does that have to do with it?
I will say far more have died in helicopters overall for obvious reasons.
But you made the claim they were responsible for 40 deaths yet didnt qualify the reason.
So I ask again....how many died when the helicopter went into service?

And just so you cant weasel out here is your statement and mine:

How many died when the helicopter was first introduced?

As a prototype, during field testing, or in service? Don't know. Enlighten me.

Enlightening me would be your job skippy. You're the one up in arms.[/QUOTE]
You brought up helicopters. Not me. V 2 is a tilt-rotor aircraft in case you didn't know.[/QUOTE]

I'm not the one who brought up 40 dead in the Osprey you did.
If you want to continue to try and say the old ass helicopters with very limited capacity are better you need to prove your point.
And that includes the history of helicopter deaths since YOU brought them up.
I wont even ask you to consider deaths during operations,again for obvious reasons.
I want the number of deaths in the development of the helicopter.
If you cant post em you need to STFU.[/QUOTE]

The topic is V 2 Osprey and you wandered off. You like to twist don't you. Waste of time. And FU too.

Accidents and incidents involving the V-22 Osprey - Wikipedia[/QUOTE]
The TOPIC you went to is deaths in development, to see if worse then what it replaced you need to tell us how many died testing those systems too. Dumb ass.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

How many died when the helicopter was first introduced?

As a prototype, during field testing, or in service? Don't know. Enlighten me.

WTF does that have to do with it?
I will say far more have died in helicopters overall for obvious reasons.
But you made the claim they were responsible for 40 deaths yet didnt qualify the reason.
So I ask again....how many died when the helicopter went into service?

And just so you cant weasel out here is your statement and mine:

How many died when the helicopter was first introduced?

As a prototype, during field testing, or in service? Don't know. Enlighten me.

Enlightening me would be your job skippy. You're the one up in arms.

You brought up helicopters. Not me. V 2 is a tilt-rotor aircraft in case you didn't know.

Wow....what a pathetic dodge.
You claim only 40 people died in the Osprey yet you cant tell me how many died in the helicopter?

Eeeeeer.....derpity derp derp tilt wing aircraft derp

Combined with cost is 40 deaths.

How many died when the helicopter was first introduced?

As a prototype, during field testing, or in service? Don't know. Enlighten me.

WTF does that have to do with it?
I will say far more have died in helicopters overall for obvious reasons.
But you made the claim they were responsible for 40 deaths yet didnt qualify the reason.
So I ask again....how many died when the helicopter went into service?

And just so you cant weasel out here is your statement and mine:

How many died when the helicopter was first introduced?

As a prototype, during field testing, or in service? Don't know. Enlighten me.

Enlightening me would be your job skippy. You're the one up in arms.[/QUOTE]
You brought up helicopters. Not me. V 2 is a tilt-rotor aircraft in case you didn't know.[/QUOTE]

I'm not the one who brought up 40 dead in the Osprey you did.
If you want to continue to try and say the old ass helicopters with very limited capacity are better you need to prove your point.
And that includes the history of helicopter deaths since YOU brought them up.
I wont even ask you to consider deaths during operations,again for obvious reasons.
I want the number of deaths in the development of the helicopter.
If you cant post em you need to STFU.[/QUOTE]

The topic is V 2 Osprey and you wandered off. You like to twist don't you. Waste of time. And FU too.

Accidents and incidents involving the V-22 Osprey - Wikipedia[/QUOTE]

You cant even keep up with the conversation and who you're responding to.

 

[okfine]

"You can't even keep up" is your way of twisting a conversation by demanding an argument? Get real. You have an opinion and so do I and that doesn't change how the V 22 is safe or not.

"The U.S. Marines categorizes accidents that cause damages of at least $2 million, or involve deaths as Class A mishaps, and uses the occurrence of such serious accidents per 100,000 flight hours as an aircraft's safety index.

According to the Marines, the total flight hours of Osprey aircraft between the time its trial-development was completed in October 2003 and the end of August of this year, was 303,207 hours. Nine of the accidents that took place in that time were Class A, bringing the rate of accidents to 2.97 per 100,000 flight hours. This figure is about 1.5 times the rate of accidents released by the Japanese Ministry of Defense in October 2012 -- 1.93 as of April 2012 -- prior to the Osprey's deployment at Futenma air base.

The Japanese government had emphasized the safety of the Osprey prior to its deployment at Futenma by underscoring the fact that its 1.93 accident rate was lower than the 2.45 accident rate among U.S. Marine aircraft overall at the time. However, the rate of accidents involving Osprey aircraft tallied at the end of the U.S. fiscal year at the end of September has been on an upward trend, with the rate rising to 2.62 as of the end of September 2016, closing in on the 2.63 accident rate among all Marine Corps aircraft."

Gov't claim of Osprey safety crumbles 5 years after deployment at US base in Okinawa - The Mainichi

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

"You can't even keep up" is your way of twisting a conversation by demanding an argument? Get real. You have an opinion and so do I and that doesn't change how the V 22 is safe or not.

"The U.S. Marines categorizes accidents that cause damages of at least $2 million, or involve deaths as Class A mishaps, and uses the occurrence of such serious accidents per 100,000 flight hours as an aircraft's safety index.

According to the Marines, the total flight hours of Osprey aircraft between the time its trial-development was completed in October 2003 and the end of August of this year, was 303,207 hours. Nine of the accidents that took place in that time were Class A, bringing the rate of accidents to 2.97 per 100,000 flight hours. This figure is about 1.5 times the rate of accidents released by the Japanese Ministry of Defense in October 2012 -- 1.93 as of April 2012 -- prior to the Osprey's deployment at Futenma air base.

The Japanese government had emphasized the safety of the Osprey prior to its deployment at Futenma by underscoring the fact that its 1.93 accident rate was lower than the 2.45 accident rate among U.S. Marine aircraft overall at the time. However, the rate of accidents involving Osprey aircraft tallied at the end of the U.S. fiscal year at the end of September has been on an upward trend, with the rate rising to 2.62 as of the end of September 2016, closing in on the 2.63 accident rate among all Marine Corps aircraft."

Gov't claim of Osprey safety crumbles 5 years after deployment at US base in Okinawa - The Mainichi

Your link is from 2017.
You made the claim that the V 22 has killed 40 people.
I asked how many the helicopter killed while it was being developed.
I think thats a fair question.
I know you dont want that question answered because you can bet it's far higher than 40.

 

[harmonica]

"You can't even keep up" is your way of twisting a conversation by demanding an argument? Get real. You have an opinion and so do I and that doesn't change how the V 22 is safe or not.

"The U.S. Marines categorizes accidents that cause damages of at least $2 million, or involve deaths as Class A mishaps, and uses the occurrence of such serious accidents per 100,000 flight hours as an aircraft's safety index.

According to the Marines, the total flight hours of Osprey aircraft between the time its trial-development was completed in October 2003 and the end of August of this year, was 303,207 hours. Nine of the accidents that took place in that time were Class A, bringing the rate of accidents to 2.97 per 100,000 flight hours. This figure is about 1.5 times the rate of accidents released by the Japanese Ministry of Defense in October 2012 -- 1.93 as of April 2012 -- prior to the Osprey's deployment at Futenma air base.

The Japanese government had emphasized the safety of the Osprey prior to its deployment at Futenma by underscoring the fact that its 1.93 accident rate was lower than the 2.45 accident rate among U.S. Marine aircraft overall at the time. However, the rate of accidents involving Osprey aircraft tallied at the end of the U.S. fiscal year at the end of September has been on an upward trend, with the rate rising to 2.62 as of the end of September 2016, closing in on the 2.63 accident rate among all Marine Corps aircraft."

Gov't claim of Osprey safety crumbles 5 years after deployment at US base in Okinawa - The Mainichi

17 years and 9 class A's--that's good
2 million--it cost 72 $million--2 million is like a a scratch on a car or a fender bender
...you don't know what you are talking about---3 out of 8 choppers had malfunctions that took them out in Operation Eagle Claw..3 out of 8 //etc etc