iceberg
Diamond Member
- May 15, 2017
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thats where i was yesterday - on my phone.I am short of time and using my phone, but will respond later as this deserves a good responsei have more time to get back to this one and wanted to.except most who request it never show. but to the main point, why have the 2 lines if with one word they come on in?hope this quote shit works.
what i am seeing is you can't "define" the actual difference as yes, there are many types. but seeking asylum is a specific target. a political opponent in china may ask for asylum because if he goes back to china, he dies. that is what it is for and no that should not be stopped.
Agree.
but it shouldn't be abused either. if you are coming over here because you want a better job or life - great. get in the much longer line. i'm sorry it's a long one and i'm sorry your country sucks and you wish to leave but that is your situation and the US as a country is horrible at how to handle this.
so far i agree.
True, but again - isn't that abuse sorted out in the courts? Most asylum requests get denied.
but what happened is they simply started saying "asylum" because the line was shorter. the democrats encouraged it because they found a way around what they view as an obstacle. i agree it's an obstacle but i disagree going around it with redefining things is a valid move to be allowed.
Maybe or maybe in some cases they genuinely are in fear for their lives. There is no question that some of those nations suffer from corrupt or weak central governments, rampant gang and cartel violence and violence towards women who have few legal rights or recourses to end it. So if they're trying for asylum it might not just be because "the line is shorter" - can you blame them? I don't see it as being "redefined" because the courts determine the outcome. It's like I can go and ask for food stamps and claim to be poor - but I'm not redefining poverty, and they will refuse me.
to me this is where we are. you seem to be leaning to "who cares what we call them, let them in" - but i'm not sure so i'll wait for you to say.
I think that's where maybe you're missing what I'm saying. I'm saying they have a right to apply for asylum - but that doesn't mean they have a right to GET asylum. That is determined by a judge who is familiar with immigration law. And I'm fine with that. That's not "let the in" - that's "let's follow the laws and procedures set up for granting asylum".
requesting asylum is a specific term for a specific process. not a magic word to make the long line of immigration disappear.
We actually AGREE on that - I think we just come at it from different angles
The quote system sucks. I had to make multiple attempts to fix mine.
we can't make it that easy.
appreciate stickng to topic. Thank you
Except...most who request it DO show up for their hearings.
Nearly all asylum-seekers show up for court, data shows
More than a decade of data show that asylum-seekers and other migrants facing immigration hearings appear in court at least 83% of the time, with some rates as high as 96%. A new report challenges what one expert called a "pernicious myth."www.tucsonsentinel.com
Just because there are multiple lines doesn't mean some won't try to get in through the wrong line. That's human nature. But it's easily fixed when they get their hearing and the merits of their case are examined.
How would you propose altering it in such a way that would not create hardship for genuine (or those who believe they are genuine) asylum seekers?
first - i believe we agree on who can ask for asylum. simply living in a dangerous country isn't enough. it is spelled out here.
Asylum, Withholding of Removal, and Protection under the Convention Against Torture (Form I589): Asylum is for individuals who fear they will be harmed if they return to their home country. You
must show that the harm you face is because of your race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or
membership in a particular social group. Normally you must apply for asylum within one year of
coming to the United States. If you have an aggravated felony, you will not be eligible for asylum.
Usually being afraid of returning to your home country because of general violence is not sufficient to
win asylum. Withholding of removal is for people who cannot qualify for asylum because of their
immigration history or criminal record. You have to show that there is more than a 50% chance that
you will be seriously harmed if sent back to your country. Finally, protection under the Convention
Against Torture is for people who do not qualify for asylum or withholding and who can show that they
will be tortured or killed if deported to their home country, by their home government or with their
government’s permission or knowledge.
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so to properly ask for it - you must meet these conditions.
in 2010 - 940 people from s. america were granted asylum. while i don't know how many requested, a total of ~42k applied in 2010.
Facts and Statistics | US Asylum
www.shautsova.com
today, more than 1 million are requesting it.
There were 1,148,416 pending asylum cases in the United States — at a minimum. If those applicants were a state, they would be the 43rd largest in the United States, ahead of Montana, Rhode Island, Delaware, the Dakotas, Alaska, Vermont, and Wyoming.More than 1 Million Migrants Are in the U.S. Seeking Asylum
A federal report reveals that 1.15 million asylum-seeking people are already living in the U.S., as Biden promises to welcome more migrants.www.breitbart.com
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now these are "pending" and not all requested in 2020 - but you can see we're in a backlog from hell that will never get caught up. why?
cause in 2019 and 2020 - approximately 400k requested it. this is about a 50% increase over 2010 and growing. asylum requests doubled in 2017 and didn't drop at all til 2020.
now to even apply for asylum they must go through the immigration process anyway. as of july 2018, 733k cases backlogged. 721 days at the time to even get a hearing. reference
now - to fact check the article in reference that up to 96% do in fact show up. i look at immigration reform.
It appears that both of these claims come from the same source: a 2018 study by the American Immigration Council (AIC). The AIC is a radical open-borders organization that aggressively campaigns for eliminating essentially all measures that combat illegal immigration. Therefore, any figures from this organization should be examined with skepticism, and for good reason – these two figures are wrong.
so - no. they do not outside of this one study that appears heavily biased. so - to be fair, do we have any other study to validate this study? if a high number do in fact show, more than 1 study should illustrate that. the article itself breaks down the issues in the calculation of the number.
what i hope *is* clear is we have a backlog from hell, waiting time for even a trial at all is a year and a half, and people requesting to get into this process is at an all time high over the last 3 years and rising.
while i agree some valid people looking for asylum may be caught in this net - it's a trap of our own creation by allowing it to happen and our courts are backlogged due to the inaction of our congress on the matter. we've created our own firestorm and don't know how to put it out. but it would also appear a group of thousands of immigrants looking for a better life simply don't quality for requesting asylum. even if they do - they must go through the immigration process anyway.
so. how do we stop the abuse of a process that is tearing up our court system and still remain fair to said process and immigration strategies for our country?
changes would have to come. period. they should come from congress, but they are not doing it. so presidents write EO's like michael jordon handing out autographs at a basketball convention and we tear up a country trying to do something because our congress won't.
we need to stop bitching at the president for this, agree to short term moves many simply won't like to stop the bleeding, then fix the problem in congress where it should be fixed.