US Taxes Second Lowest in Developed World

[Toro]

According to our Constitution, no one has to PAY for their citizenship, thank God!

You just have to pay the lawyers through the nose FFS...

 

[Iriemon]

I'm just trying to illuminate the issue because I believe there is a lot of misinformation around.

I think a lower tax rate on business is better than a high tax rate. However, we have to have both an intellectually honest and accurate understanding of the issues to make an informed decision.

I heartily agree with the part that I highlited in red. I think the tax system is complex so that it will be un-understandable. The simple fact that about half of the citizens are paying tax and about half are not is a very dangerous equation all by itself.

Whether it's a flat tax or a state based tax, it needs to be less complex and more simple. Anytime something gets complex, I feel like the screwing has begun.

Our tax system is a maze of confusion right now that punishes and rewards based on caprice. If you want to see a movie, you need to pay the admission. If you want to be a citizen, you only need to pay according to your means and, if you need increasingly more assistance from the government, you pay increasingly less. What's wrong with this picture?

I agree. Our current code is far too bloated with loopholes and provisions that let the wealthiest avoid taxes.

Obama has selected a commission to simplify the tax code and eliminate some of these loopholes.

Let's wish them luck.

 

[Maple]

Yes and when we do who will pay for you?????

 

[Ame®icano]

Per Sen Harry Reid, paying taxes in US is volontary.

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[Toro]

Yes and when we do who will pay for you?????

I wrote a big fact check to the IRS this year.

But then it bounced because I forgot to unfreeze my account I had frozen when I thought I was under cyber-attack.

So I had to write them an even bigger check!

 

[Yurt]

I'm just trying to illuminate the issue because I believe there is a lot of misinformation around.

I think a lower tax rate on business is better than a high tax rate. However, we have to have both an intellectually honest and accurate understanding of the issues to make an informed decision.

I heartily agree with the part that I highlited in red. I think the tax system is complex so that it will be un-understandable. The simple fact that about half of the citizens are paying tax and about half are not is a very dangerous equation all by itself.

Whether it's a flat tax or a state based tax, it needs to be less complex and more simple. Anytime something gets complex, I feel like the screwing has begun.

Our tax system is a maze of confusion right now that punishes and rewards based on caprice. If you want to see a movie, you need to pay the admission. If you want to be a citizen, you only need to pay according to your means and, if you need increasingly more assistance from the government, you pay increasingly less. What's wrong with this picture?

I agree. Our current code is far too bloated with loopholes and provisions that let the wealthiest avoid taxes.

Obama has selected a commission to simplify the tax code and eliminate some of these loopholes.

Let's wish them luck.

wait a minute, so using the law to pay less taxes is avoiding taxes? and please, it is not only the wealthiest who use use those...

 

[Care4all]

I'm just trying to illuminate the issue because I believe there is a lot of misinformation around.

I think a lower tax rate on business is better than a high tax rate. However, we have to have both an intellectually honest and accurate understanding of the issues to make an informed decision.

I heartily agree with the part that I highlited in red. I think the tax system is complex so that it will be un-understandable. The simple fact that about half of the citizens are paying tax and about half are not is a very dangerous equation all by itself.

Whether it's a flat tax or a state based tax, it needs to be less complex and more simple. Anytime something gets complex, I feel like the screwing has begun.

Our tax system is a maze of confusion right now that punishes and rewards based on caprice. If you want to see a movie, you need to pay the admission. If you want to be a citizen, you only need to pay according to your means and, if you need increasingly more assistance from the government, you pay increasingly less. What's wrong with this picture?

yes, the bottom 50% income earners pay only 3.5 percent of the income tax bill.


however, the bottom 50% only own/earn 2.5% of the wealth in this country.

the top 1% income earner individuals, own/earn 33% of all the wealth in this country...

that's a pretty huge disparity in wealth owned....whose gap has only grown larger.

I agree our income taxes are way too complicated and need simplifying, but i do not believe the wealthiest are paying too much or our poorest are paying too little of the income tax burden....based on their share of this country's individual wealth.


http://www.tolerance.org/images/teach/activities/tt_wealth_tables.pdf

care

 

[Care4all]

[/COLOR]


I heartily agree with the part that I highlited in red. I think the tax system is complex so that it will be un-understandable. The simple fact that about half of the citizens are paying tax and about half are not is a very dangerous equation all by itself.

Whether it's a flat tax or a state based tax, it needs to be less complex and more simple. Anytime something gets complex, I feel like the screwing has begun.

Our tax system is a maze of confusion right now that punishes and rewards based on caprice. If you want to see a movie, you need to pay the admission. If you want to be a citizen, you only need to pay according to your means and, if you need increasingly more assistance from the government, you pay increasingly less. What's wrong with this picture?

I agree. Our current code is far too bloated with loopholes and provisions that let the wealthiest avoid taxes.

Obama has selected a commission to simplify the tax code and eliminate some of these loopholes.

Let's wish them luck.

wait a minute, so using the law to pay less taxes is avoiding taxes? and please, it is not only the wealthiest who use use those...

60% of income earners only file the irs short form, they do not itemize for tax deductions so the top 40% of income earners is who takes advantage of the tax laws writen for deductions....the lobbying power of the wealthiest has made the irs tax code more than 15 feet tall if paper is stacked imo, because the bottom 60% have no interest in all the loopholes or added deductions added to the code.

care

 

[editec]

US Taxes Second Lowest in Developed World

And yet we're STILL not getting our money's worth...well most of us at least, aren't

 

[Care4all]

US Taxes Second Lowest in Developed World

And yet we're STILL not getting our money's worth...well most of us at least, aren't

and ain't that the TRUTH!

 

[Yurt]

I agree. Our current code is far too bloated with loopholes and provisions that let the wealthiest avoid taxes.

Obama has selected a commission to simplify the tax code and eliminate some of these loopholes.

Let's wish them luck.

wait a minute, so using the law to pay less taxes is avoiding taxes? and please, it is not only the wealthiest who use use those...

60% of income earners only file the irs short form, they do not itemize for tax deductions so the top 40% of income earners is who takes advantage of the tax laws writen for deductions....the lobbying power of the wealthiest has made the irs tax code more than 15 feet tall if paper is stacked imo, because the bottom 60% have no interest in all the loopholes or added deductions added to the code.

care

you obviously haven't a clue about small businesses...i know plenty who don't make that much and use every deduction they can...

so, is using the deductions "avoiding" taxes? iriemon is incapable of answering that and only capable of thanking you for your post...

 

[DiamondDave]

I'm just trying to illuminate the issue because I believe there is a lot of misinformation around.

I think a lower tax rate on business is better than a high tax rate. However, we have to have both an intellectually honest and accurate understanding of the issues to make an informed decision.

I heartily agree with the part that I highlited in red. I think the tax system is complex so that it will be un-understandable. The simple fact that about half of the citizens are paying tax and about half are not is a very dangerous equation all by itself.

Whether it's a flat tax or a state based tax, it needs to be less complex and more simple. Anytime something gets complex, I feel like the screwing has begun.

Our tax system is a maze of confusion right now that punishes and rewards based on caprice. If you want to see a movie, you need to pay the admission. If you want to be a citizen, you only need to pay according to your means and, if you need increasingly more assistance from the government, you pay increasingly less. What's wrong with this picture?

yes, the bottom 50% income earners pay only 3.5 percent of the income tax bill.


however, the bottom 50% only own/earn 2.5% of the wealth in this country.

the top 1% income earner individuals, own/earn 33% of all the wealth in this country...

that's a pretty huge disparity in wealth owned....whose gap has only grown larger.

I agree our income taxes are way too complicated and need simplifying, but i do not believe the wealthiest are paying too much or our poorest are paying too little of the income tax burden....based on their share of this country's individual wealth.


http://www.tolerance.org/images/teach/activities/tt_wealth_tables.pdf

care

Care.. make sure you separate wealth and earnings.. we tax on earnings/income... not on what you have saved

And since we tax on earnings... and we are supposed to be a country based on equality... as stated SO many times... we need a 1 rate system, simplified with loopholes eliminated... every last person pays the same X% on every last dollar earned.... THAT is fair share

 

[Iriemon]

[/COLOR]

I heartily agree with the part that I highlited in red. I think the tax system is complex so that it will be un-understandable. The simple fact that about half of the citizens are paying tax and about half are not is a very dangerous equation all by itself.

Whether it's a flat tax or a state based tax, it needs to be less complex and more simple. Anytime something gets complex, I feel like the screwing has begun.

Our tax system is a maze of confusion right now that punishes and rewards based on caprice. If you want to see a movie, you need to pay the admission. If you want to be a citizen, you only need to pay according to your means and, if you need increasingly more assistance from the government, you pay increasingly less. What's wrong with this picture?

yes, the bottom 50% income earners pay only 3.5 percent of the income tax bill.


however, the bottom 50% only own/earn 2.5% of the wealth in this country.

the top 1% income earner individuals, own/earn 33% of all the wealth in this country...

that's a pretty huge disparity in wealth owned....whose gap has only grown larger.

I agree our income taxes are way too complicated and need simplifying, but i do not believe the wealthiest are paying too much or our poorest are paying too little of the income tax burden....based on their share of this country's individual wealth.


http://www.tolerance.org/images/teach/activities/tt_wealth_tables.pdf

care

Care.. make sure you separate wealth and earnings.. we tax on earnings/income... not on what you have saved

And since we tax on earnings... and we are supposed to be a country based on equality... as stated SO many times... we need a 1 rate system, simplified with loopholes eliminated... every last person pays the same X% on every last dollar earned.... THAT is fair share

Sure its fair ... if you think folks living in poverty who can't afford health care and basic stuff should pay the same tax rate as the folks making hundreds of millions. Folks like Steve Forbes will think that's really "fair".

 

[Iriemon]

wait a minute, so using the law to pay less taxes is avoiding taxes? and please, it is not only the wealthiest who use use those...

60% of income earners only file the irs short form, they do not itemize for tax deductions so the top 40% of income earners is who takes advantage of the tax laws writen for deductions....the lobbying power of the wealthiest has made the irs tax code more than 15 feet tall if paper is stacked imo, because the bottom 60% have no interest in all the loopholes or added deductions added to the code.

care

you obviously haven't a clue about small businesses...i know plenty who don't make that much and use every deduction they can...

so, is using the deductions "avoiding" taxes? iriemon is incapable of answering that and only capable of thanking you for your post...

Jeez I'm sorry you feel so neglected. I thought you question was rhetorical.

Here:

wait a minute, so using the law to pay less taxes is avoiding taxes?

Yes.

and please, it is not only the wealthiest who use use those...

No. See Care's answer above.

 

[Yurt]

lmao...i didn't feal neglected, i'm laughing that you can't answer a question and can only applaud your friend...

so using the law to pay less taxes is AVOIDING paying taxes...using your logic obama and biden both avoided paying taxes..

you don't even know what you're talking about day to day...in another thread where i talked about obama and biden using deductions you said that was OK

Yeah, we need to raise taxes to generate more revenues. But who ever claimed that anyone should pay more than the legal obligation? I certainly haven't, and I haven't heard Obama say it either. What hypocracy?

No one including Obama is suggesting folks should pay more than required by the tax laws. When did he say that?

now you're changing your tune and saying it is not ok...

 

[Iriemon]

lmao...i didn't feal neglected, i'm laughing that you can't answer a question and can only applaud your friend...

Glad you're amused!

so using the law to pay less taxes is AVOIDING paying taxes...using your logic obama and biden both avoided paying taxes..

OK

...in another thread where i talked about obama and biden using deductions you said that was OK

Yep.

Yeah, we need to raise taxes to generate more revenues. But who ever claimed that anyone should pay more than the legal obligation? I certainly haven't, and I haven't heard Obama say it either. What hypocracy?

No one including Obama is suggesting folks should pay more than required by the tax laws. When did he say that?

now you're changing your tune and saying it is not ok...

Where on earth did you get that idea?

 

[Yurt]

so you support people avoiding taxes? your posts do not come across that way in this thread. you want the loopholes closed that allow people to avoid taxes. yet, you support obama and biden "avoiding" taxes....

i cannot understand how paying the maximum required under the law is "avoiding" taxes...that makes no sense especially in light of your defense of obama and biden in the other thread.

 

[Iriemon]

so you support people avoiding taxes?

Where did I say I support it? Quit putting words in my mouth. Your whole style of argument is to mischaracterize what I said and then argue about it. That is a strawman. Show were I have ever said I support someone avoiding taxes.

your posts do not come across that way in this thread. you want the loopholes closed that allow people to avoid taxes. yet, you support obama and biden "avoiding" taxes....

Yes I want loopholes closed. I never said I "supported" Obama, Biden or anyone else avoiding taxes; I don't care whether they do or not. I don't blame them or anyone else using whatever legal means to reduce their tax obligation.

The fact that I don't blame people for using deductions or loopholes available to them in no way implies or suggests that I support those deductions and loopholes, which is where you seem to be trying to go with this strawman argument.

i cannot understand how paying the maximum required under the law is "avoiding" taxes...that makes no sense especially in light of your defense of obama and biden in the other thread.

I can't either. What does "paying the maximum required under that law" mean?

 

[Yurt]

i had a question mark moron...

you know, the problem with debating you is that you bitch and moan about non existence strawman and always accuse someone else of misrepresenting what you say. i did not mischaracterize your arguments, you even agreed with what i showed you were your arguments.

you steadfastly support obama and biden paying less taxes. you said that was "avoiding" taxes... by saying "OK" when i said obama and biden avoided paying taxes using your logic. now you're saying i am mischaracterizing you...

here is your chance...explain how that is NOT support for avoiding taxes

 

[Iriemon]

...moron...

Post ignored.

Go have an insult fest with someone else.