CDZ US Healthcare Reform

[Onyx]

Americans should stop paying private insurance companies and put their money in non-profit mutual healthcare savings accounts. These accounts would be supervised by elected trustees that would negotiate directly with healthcare companies.

Citizens would have security in case they get sick, stop insurance companies from skimming profits off the top, and eliminate the corruption and inefficiency that comes with state control of healthcare.

This replicates the advantages of single payer while keeping the government out of healthcare. Everybody happy now?

 

[Onyx]

Come on guys, let's have a debate on something that the media/government didn't shove down our throats.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

You can do that now if you can get access.

I have thought about asking my company to just put my premiums in an HSA. It's large enough now that I could handle a pretty big hit.

Not a bad idea.

The catch is that we spend 9,000 per person per year on health care. That means a family of four is going to spend 36,000 on health care on average. That means someone is spending a whole lot of money on health care.

Now end-of-life coverage is 30% of our total bill. That should be in the public discussion.

 

[Onyx]

You can do that now if you can get access.

I have thought about asking my company to just put my premiums in an HSA. It's large enough now that I could handle a pretty big hit.

Those healthcare savings accounts are not really what I am talking about, although this idea would also be tax and regulation free.

This would be people putting all the money they would normally give to insurance companies into a mutual shared account, which would pay directly for any health costs of its members. Each account would have elected trustees that represent its members interests to healthcare companies, and sets the rules for how much members pay into the account and how money is dispensed to those that need it.

Different accounts may operate differently, such as one covering abortions, and another refusing to do that.

Now end-of-life coverage is 30% of our total bill. That should be in the public discussion.

Absolutely. Just in general most healthcare spending goes to senior citizens, for obvious reasons.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Americans should stop paying private insurance companies and put their money in non-profit mutual healthcare savings accounts. These accounts would be supervised by elected trustees that would negotiate directly with healthcare companies.

Citizens would have security in case they get sick, stop insurance companies from skimming profits off the top, and eliminate the corruption and inefficiency that comes with state control of healthcare.

This replicates the advantages of single payer while keeping the government out of healthcare. Everybody happy now?

It's more an application and variant of the concept of "self insuring" rather than "single payer," but I don't care much what taxonomic label an idea wears. What you've suggested is a reasonable solution approach. The details need expounding upon. Perhaps you'll undertake to do that next?

 

[Onyx]

It's more an application and variant of the concept of "self insuring" rather than "single payer," but I don't care much what taxonomic label an idea wears. What you've suggested is a reasonable solution approach. The details need expounding upon. Perhaps you'll undertake to do that next?

If specific details are requested. I was prepared to go in more length if any questions were asked.

 

[usmbguest5318]

It's more an application and variant of the concept of "self insuring" rather than "single payer," but I don't care much what taxonomic label an idea wears. What you've suggested is a reasonable solution approach. The details need expounding upon. Perhaps you'll undertake to do that next?

If specific details are requested. I was prepared to go in more length if any questions were asked.

Was I unclear in asking for more detail?

The details need expounding upon. Perhaps you'll undertake to do that next?

 

[Onyx]

Was I unclear in asking for more detail?

I'm not going to waste my time and write you an essay. What more detail do you want?

 

[usmbguest5318]

Americans should stop paying private insurance companies and put their money in non-profit mutual healthcare savings accounts. These accounts would be supervised by elected trustees that would negotiate directly with healthcare companies.

Citizens would have security in case they get sick, stop insurance companies from skimming profits off the top, and eliminate the corruption and inefficiency that comes with state control of healthcare.

This replicates the advantages of single payer while keeping the government out of healthcare. Everybody happy now?

It's more an application and variant of the concept of "self insuring" rather than "single payer," but I don't care much what taxonomic label an idea wears. What you've suggested is a reasonable solution approach. The details need expounding upon. Perhaps you'll undertake to do that next?

If specific details are requested. I was prepared to go in more length if any questions were asked.

Was I unclear in asking for more detail?

The details need expounding upon. Perhaps you'll undertake to do that next?

Was I unclear in asking for more detail?

I'm not going to waste my time and write you an essay. What more detail do you want?

• Define "mutual health savings account." How is it similar to and different from a sinking fund?
• What do you project will be the impact on US GDP when undiversified health insurance companies go out of business? Direct losses from insurance companies going out of business? Job loss impact? Securities industry losses? Overall GDP decrease?
• What provisions have you in mind to ensure that the monies people contribute to "mutual health savings accounts" are not lost?
• To what forms of corruption risks would the accounts and their management be most exposed? How would you mitigate them?
• How do you propose the pooled "mutual health saving account" manage the risk that one or several poor health individuals in the pool require care that exceeds their contributions to the pool? Who's supposed to absorb both the costs when that risk materialized into a reality?

 

[Onyx]

• Define "mutual health savings account." How is it similar to and different from a sinking fund?
• What do you project will be the impact on US GDP when undiversified health insurance companies go out of business? Direct losses from insurance companies going out of business? Job loss impact? Securities industry losses? Overall GDP decrease?
• What provisions have you in mind to ensure that the monies people contribute to "mutual health savings accounts" are not lost?
• To what forms of corruption risks would the accounts and their management be most exposed? How would you mitigate them?
• How do you propose the pooled "mutual health saving account" manage the risk that one or several poor health individuals in the pool require care that exceeds their contributions to the pool? Who's supposed to absorb both the costs when that risk materialized into a reality?

- It's a mutual account and healthcare isn't a depreciating asset. These accounts wouldn't be taxable either.

- Insurance companies do not produce anything. They are middlemen between consumers and healthcare companies, and rely on the majority of their clients paying in more than they will receive. Jobs losses would be replaced by new positions within the mutual accounts themselves. This wouldn't happen overnight, which would allow those involved to minimize their financial losses.

- Well there are no insurance companies profiting off of the contributions. Each account can structure itself differently to ensure maximum efficiency of funds.

- The obvious source of corruption would be the trustees funneling money into selective private interests that benefit them personally. Account members being able to elect management/trustee positions serves as a check on corruption. It is very possible that accounts could be verified by private rating agencies.

- With the for-profit incentive gone, the entire fund would go towards paying healthcare. Different accounts can establish their own rules for managing collection and distribution. Some may manage risk efficiently, and others may buckle. Citizens should talk to a financial adviser and find out which account would give them the most security.

 

[usmbguest5318]

• Define "mutual health savings account." How is it similar to and different from a sinking fund?
• What do you project will be the impact on US GDP when undiversified health insurance companies go out of business? Direct losses from insurance companies going out of business? Job loss impact? Securities industry losses? Overall GDP decrease?
• What provisions have you in mind to ensure that the monies people contribute to "mutual health savings accounts" are not lost?
• To what forms of corruption risks would the accounts and their management be most exposed? How would you mitigate them?
• How do you propose the pooled "mutual health saving account" manage the risk that one or several poor health individuals in the pool require care that exceeds their contributions to the pool? Who's supposed to absorb both the costs when that risk materialized into a reality?

- It's a mutual account and healthcare isn't a depreciating asset. These accounts wouldn't be taxable either.

- Insurance companies do not produce anything. They are middlemen between consumers and healthcare companies, and rely on the majority of their clients paying in more than they will receive. Jobs losses would be replaced by new positions within the mutual accounts themselves. This wouldn't happen overnight, which would allow those involved to minimize their financial losses.

- Well there are no insurance companies profiting off of the contributions. Each account can structure itself differently to ensure maximum efficiency of funds.

- The obvious source of corruption would be the trustees funneling money into selective private interests that benefit them personally. Account members being able to elect management/trustee positions serves as a check on corruption. It is very possible that accounts could be verified by private rating agencies.

- With the for-profit incentive gone, the entire fund would go towards paying healthcare. Different accounts can establish their own rules for managing collection and distribution. Some may manage risk efficiently, and others may buckle. Citizens should talk to a financial adviser and find out which account would give them the most security.

Okay. Well, I appreciate your at least attempting to answer my questions. I am going to content myself with that for it's clear you haven't thought through the proposal far enough to have the type of detail I was expecting to receive in reply to my question. That is what it is. I am able to tell from them that what you have in mind is something akin to adapting the idea of a mutual fund to the process of saving for and paying for health treatment and procedures.

 

[Onyx]

Okay. Well, I appreciate your at least attempting to answer my questions. I am going to content myself with that for it's clear you haven't thought through the proposal far enough to have the type of detail I was expecting to receive in reply to my question.

Yeah mate, well I'm not going to write you an association charter and financial assessment report.

This is private single payer. Not rocket science.

 

[Fishlore]

We are unlikely to reach a stable, satisfactory healthcare program until we abandon the insurance model and cut medical care loose from employment. Public healthcare needs to be part of the basic structure of government, along with roads, schools, clean drinking water, etc. Healthcare like the armed forces, is a government service that is not well handled by the private market.

 

[Onyx]

Public healthcare needs to be part of the basic structure of government, along with roads, schools, clean drinking water, etc. Healthcare like the armed forces, is a government service that is not well handled by the private market.

Healthcare would be handled great by private mutual savings accounts. States are plagued with incompetency and corruption, and I don't want you to determine my healthcare plan. Citizens should have the right to decide how they invest in their own health security.

 

[Vandalshandle]

You can do that now if you can get access.

I have thought about asking my company to just put my premiums in an HSA. It's large enough now that I could handle a pretty big hit.

Those healthcare savings accounts are not really what I am talking about, although this idea would also be tax and regulation free.

This would be people putting all the money they would normally give to insurance companies into a mutual shared account, which would pay directly for any health costs of its members. Each account would have elected trustees that represent its members interests to healthcare companies, and sets the rules for how much members pay into the account and how money is dispensed to those that need it.

Different accounts may operate differently, such as one covering abortions, and another refusing to do that.

Now end-of-life coverage is 30% of our total bill. That should be in the public discussion.

Absolutely. Just in general most healthcare spending goes to senior citizens, for obvious reasons.

Sounds like a great idea! What will we call it? I know! We'll call it "health insurance!"

 

[Onyx]

Sounds like a great idea! What will we call it? I know! We'll call it "health insurance!"

Are you guys seriously this dense? Mutual savings is not a remotely new concept.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Okay. Well, I appreciate your at least attempting to answer my questions. I am going to content myself with that for it's clear you haven't thought through the proposal far enough to have the type of detail I was expecting to receive in reply to my question.

Yeah mate, well I'm not going to write you an association charter and financial assessment report.

This is private single payer. Not rocket science.

I am able to tell from them that what you have in mind is something akin to adapting the idea of a mutual fund to the process of saving for and paying for health treatment and procedures.

It's just a mutual account for healthcare! My god, the people here really test my patience....

I really just wanted a exec summary of a preliminary "business case" of sorts...something consisting of no more than the content to which one would speak were one to have 15 minutes to deliver a 5-10 slide PowerPoint presentation [1] to a group of EVPs who are very savvy on economics, business management, finance, and the business of health care..

• The process for how it's supposed to work for the "saver," fund manager, and payees.
• The structure of how the funds are to be organized and managed.
• The risk profile and the applicable risk mitigation options and their triggers.
• Macro and micro economic impact listing.

Something that leaves no uncertainty about what you are proposing and how it's supposed to work at a high level.

Note:

1. Here's a post of mine that equates to the content of one PowerPoint slide presentation that could be delivered in five minutes or less. The post briefly explains how rich people avoid having a tax liability. It took me something like four to six minutes to write that post, not including the one minute it took me to dig up the linked content I provided for reference and additional explanatory info for readers who need more info.
   
   Something at a comparable level of detail is all I'm asking for; however, given the nature of your proposal I realize that it's going to take more than a few minutes to compose. I'm not in a hurry for the reply. I just want to fully understand what you're proposing. If you don't want to provide that, okay. If you haven't thought it through that far, okay, provided you say so for your saying so governs what expectations I have should I with you discuss the matter further.

 

[Vandalshandle]

When amateurs start messing around with insurance, here is what happens:

Insurance Companies Could Profit From Fewer Customers Under GOP Plan

 

[Onyx]

I really just wanted a exec summary of a preliminary "business case" of sorts...something consisting of no more than the content to which one would speak were one to have 15 minutes to deliver a 5-10 slide PowerPoint presentation [1] to a group of EVPs who are very savvy on economics, business management, finance, and the business of health care..

• The process for how it's supposed to work for the "saver," fund manager, and payees.
• The structure of how the funds are to be organized and managed.
• The risk profile and the applicable risk mitigation options and their triggers.
• Macro and micro economic impact listing.

If you want to debate the general concept of using mutual savings accounts for healthcare then fine, but I am not going to write an entire charter and financial assessment report for what is an incredibly basis concept.

I didn't invent mutual savings, but apparently you are too dense to understand it.

 

[usmbguest5318]

I really just wanted a exec summary of a preliminary "business case" of sorts...something consisting of no more than the content to which one would speak were one to have 15 minutes to deliver a 5-10 slide PowerPoint presentation [1] to a group of EVPs who are very savvy on economics, business management, finance, and the business of health care..

• The process for how it's supposed to work for the "saver," fund manager, and payees.
• The structure of how the funds are to be organized and managed.
• The risk profile and the applicable risk mitigation options and their triggers.
• Macro and micro economic impact listing.

If you want to debate the general concept of using mutual savings accounts for healthcare then fine, but I am not going to write an entire charter and financial assessment report for what is an incredibly basis concept.

I didn't invent mutual savings, but apparently you are too dense to understand it.

So wait....all you're proposing is that people not carry health insurance and that they instead contribute only to health savings accounts?