US Government Checks Constituted 40% Of Farmers Income In 2020; USDA

[JoeB131]

Look at the facts before drawing conclusions:
1. China's state subsidized products were being "dumped" into the US hurting US industries.
2. Trump put tariffs on those goods to protect US workers
3. China punished US farmers by buying much less
4. Trump used some of the tariff money to repay US farmers for their loss

The issue is China. It sounds like you are a China First globalist like Biden.

The issue isn't "China" at all. Unlike Japan, which did engage in the behavior of dumping in the 1970's and 1980's, China is not dumping. American corporations made the decision to open factories in China for lower labor costs. They have subsequently moved those factories to India and Vietnam and Malaysia where the labor costs are even cheaper.

Trump tried to punish China for what American corporations, including the Trump Organization, did.

As a result, China decided to not buy our products. Seems reasonably fair. The real problem is, once they've developed those alternative sources for soybeans and pork, it's going to be a lot harder to get back into the Chinese market.

 

[Crepitus]

Your article missed the point of helping US farmers since China retaliated against them for Trump's tariffs:

No one missed that taxes were taken from some to give to others.

OMG, it was TARIFF money given to farmers, NOT TAXES

Trump tariffs: How much is US collecting in revenue?

Federal spending continues to outpace revenue collection.

www.foxbusiness.com

The US collected $60b in tariffs from China and paid farmers $30b because China cut agri imports.
Stop with the whining already.

They didn't collect that from china, you twit. They collected it from us.

 

[skews13]

In a late October campaign appearance in Omaha, Neb., President Donald Trump said he believed farmers were better off getting government payments than relying solely on their farming receipts.

“In fact, some people say our farmers do better now than when they actually had a farm,” he said.

Many top farm states voted again for Trump in November, including Iowa, Nebraska, Texas and Kansas. Several, however, left Trump to vote for Democrat Joe Biden, including Wisconsin, Michigan and Georgia.

U.S. government checks constituted 40% of farmers' income in 2020: USDA

Iowa farmer says that without federal money it would have been difficult to make ends meet but that it began to feel as if the government checks were...

www.marketwatch.com

Well, now we know how red state farmers, and Trump really think about socialism.

1st cut the part where the government pays people not to grow stuff. No need for that.

Agreed. Then stop paying oil companies for drilling oil. The biggest socialism program in the country.

 

[Crepitus]

Speaking of stupid, the US got $60b in tariffs last year

That came out of our pockets, you twit! Yours and mine!

 

[22lcidw]

Farm welfare is one of the biggest government programs out there.

So what is more important? Food or irresponsible people having babies out of wedlock? Which one can we improve on?

 

[Crepitus]

However, their farm isn't scrapped, its sold and bought by a more successful farmer

Nope. Corporate latifundia end up with most of them.

 

[Crepitus]

Trump's team of Navarro and Lighthizer have done an outstanding job of making trade deals more fair to US workers

Yeah, they renamed several trade agreements, and blew up a few others.

 

[jackflash]

Farm welfare is one of the biggest government programs out there.

That's why agriculture is associated with national defense. No food = no people, no people = no country.

 

[kyzr]

Your article missed the point of helping US farmers since China retaliated against them for Trump's tariffs:

Well, that just shows Trump's trade wars were kind of stupid, since they hurt America more than they hurt China.

How did Trump's tariffs hurt the US??

U.S. farm bankruptcies hit an eight-year high: court data

Very true. Its hard to make a decent living on the family farm, especially the smaller farms. They get hit with bad weather, low prices, and other costs. I'm not surprised that we're losing 500 family farm a year. However, their farm isn't scrapped, its sold and bought by a more successful farmer.
Bottom line: Trump's tariffs have zero to do with the continual loss of small family farms.

Most importantly, thank you for staying civil and on topic in the face of repeated personal insults.
From what I’m seeing you are trying to have it both ways. First, you want government intervention through trying to discourage Americans from buying imports from specific countries (tariffs) and then you want a laissez-faire approach when huge industrial corporate owned farms take over smaller family owned farms. The irony here, from my perspective, is that if President Trump never started a trade war with China, the farmers (small and big alike) wouldn’t have needed the subsidies. This has also had the affect of artificially creating a business environment for farms that gives larger farms an advantage over smaller farms simply because their profit margins are so much bigger than smaller family run farms. So, it appears that while not creating this trend (not just in farming) of larger businesses taking over smaller ones, this policy has certainly expedited the move to the edge of financial insolvency for smaller businesses that rely on China as a major share of their market.

Totally agree with your post. However the "China Problem" still remains.
I support Trump's efforts to protect US workers from unfair/illegal practices.
If you don't support those, what do you suggest?

As I get older, I really think democratic-style governments power to create change is somewhat limited. So while I would love universal health care, pretty sure handing that over to the Federal govt. is a recipe for disaster.
Agreed, China is/has behaved in ways that are totally unacceptable. And we can’t just pretend they do not exist or think that the US has the power by ourselves to affect the changes in their policies we wish to see. I think the answer is slow, plodding, boring diplomacy based on relying on a system of alliances. From what I can see, that is the only way we would have the leverage to move the needle at all. Unfortunately, President Trump has moved away from that and tried to strong arm the Xi. But because of our system of government all Xi had to do was wait him (Trump) out, knowing that he would be the leader of China long after Trump was out of office.
My point is, playing a game you are destined to loose is pointless and unproductive. In fact, based on the trade deal China just agreed on with the EU, we are in a far weaker position in regards to China than we were before this policy was enacted. While do something feels good, sometimes it’s best to just not make things worse.
At this point, our best path forward might be Biden trying to reestablish the partnerships created and fosters by the last 5 administrations. The same ones Trump has burnt down to fire up folks who truly desire American Greatness....something almost everyone can agree is more desirable than the alternative.

You'd make a great politician, very soothing rhetoric saying that everything is fine now and will be even better in the future.
1. Gridlock is good, one party rule is a disaster.
2. Universal healthcare would be a disaster, imagine Lois Lerner in-charge of your access to healthcare.
3. Agree China's behavior is unacceptable. Trump has teamed up with Japan, India, and Australia. Also agree US politics plays ping-pong with many issues. Joe Biden said he would not change Trump's China policy, we'll see.
4. We can't throw in the towel against China, its better to lead than sit on the bench. Doing something is always better than doing nothing, especially when you're losing.
5. You speak in generalities?! Which partnerships did Trump burn down? The ones unfair to US workers? Trump's path is for the US workers, not the globalists.

 

[pknopp]

Farm welfare is one of the biggest government programs out there.

So what is more important? Food or irresponsible people having babies out of wedlock? Which one can we improve on?

My Socialism is better than your Socialism is certainly a more honest argument than pretending any of this is capitalism.

 

[Brain357]

Speaking of stupid, the US got $60b in tariffs last year

That came out of our pockets, you twit! Yours and mine!

Trumpers can't figure out its a tax on us....

 

[Brain357]

He sure showed China.
Trump Tariff Aid To Farmers Cost More Than U.S. Nuclear Forces (forbes.com)

 

[Crepitus]

1. Trump used tariffs to manage China's unfair practices
2. Trump tried to juice the US economy and "grow" out of Debt...agreed that never works.
3. I'm still wondering if China owes the US for some of the cost of their Covid-19 pandemic.

1. tRump used china to distract you from his Russian troubles, and he's still doing it.

2. tRump gifted his wealthy friends with tax cuts at the expense of the average Joe and the federal deficit.

3. Stop with the crazy conspiracy theories. Also, your number 3 is clear proof of my number 1.

 

[kyzr]

My point is that the tariff can be avoided by buying US goods. Trump is trying to level the trade playing field to help US manufacturers and farmers. China's subsidized goods, currency manipulation, and dumping goods hurts US workers.

If US manufacturers want to be more competitive, they need to become more efficient and produce better products.

The thing is, the entire world's manufacturing relies on international trade. Something might be made in the US, but it's often made with foreign made components.

Its' why the manufacturing sector was already slumping before Covid hit.

The issue is trade fairness for US workers.
If other countries put tariffs on US goods, why shouldn't the US put tariffs on their goods?
Trump's team of Navarro and Lighthizer have done an outstanding job of making trade deals more fair to US workers.

US workers can't compete with the low foreign wages, period.
Trump's economy was the best in US history before the pandemic (released by China) hit.

So in a naval battle we should shoot holes in our own ships. Great idea!

Reagan on Free Trade and Siren Song of Protectionism - YouTube

Your TDS overwhelms your economic creds.
View attachment 436784

I was discussing rate of growth. Trumps claim of 4% was given. GDP increases anytime we aren't in a recession. It's about the rate of growth. Decreased in 2019 after all of trumps policy put in place. Huge failure.

• Real GDP growth rate by year in the U.S | Statista

The US GDP grew from $20.5T to $21.3T no one cares about the "rate of growth", just that it grew. Look at the unemployment rate, there was limited available labor, and wages were increasing. Trump hit the "sweet spot" for the economy, growing the lower half of wages. Thanks for playing.

 

[pknopp]

My point is that the tariff can be avoided by buying US goods. Trump is trying to level the trade playing field to help US manufacturers and farmers. China's subsidized goods, currency manipulation, and dumping goods hurts US workers.

If US manufacturers want to be more competitive, they need to become more efficient and produce better products.

The thing is, the entire world's manufacturing relies on international trade. Something might be made in the US, but it's often made with foreign made components.

Its' why the manufacturing sector was already slumping before Covid hit.

The issue is trade fairness for US workers.
If other countries put tariffs on US goods, why shouldn't the US put tariffs on their goods?
Trump's team of Navarro and Lighthizer have done an outstanding job of making trade deals more fair to US workers.

US workers can't compete with the low foreign wages, period.
Trump's economy was the best in US history before the pandemic (released by China) hit.

So in a naval battle we should shoot holes in our own ships. Great idea!

Reagan on Free Trade and Siren Song of Protectionism - YouTube

Your TDS overwhelms your economic creds.
View attachment 436784

I was discussing rate of growth. Trumps claim of 4% was given. GDP increases anytime we aren't in a recession. It's about the rate of growth. Decreased in 2019 after all of trumps policy put in place. Huge failure.

• Real GDP growth rate by year in the U.S | Statista

The US GDP grew from $20.5T to $21.3T no one cares about the "rate of growth", just that it grew. Look at the unemployment rate, there was limited available labor, and wages were increasing. Trump hit the "sweet spot" for the economy, growing the lower half of wages. Thanks for playing.

View attachment 436798

GDP includes the billions the Federal Reserve pumps into the markets. Take that out and tell me how we are doing?

 

[kyzr]

1. Trump used tariffs to manage China's unfair practices
2. Trump tried to juice the US economy and "grow" out of Debt...agreed that never works.
3. I'm still wondering if China owes the US for some of the cost of their Covid-19 pandemic.

1. tRump used china to distract you from his Russian troubles, and he's still doing it.

2. tRump gifted his wealthy friends with tax cuts at the expense of the average Joe and the federal deficit.

3. Stop with the crazy conspiracy theories. Also, your number 3 is clear proof of my number 1.

1. What Russian troubles? Mueller came up empty, duh. The Bidens have money-laundering troubles, and hopefully special prosecutor troubles very soon.
2. Trump tried the old "tax cut" to grow the economy stunt that never works.
3. What crazy conspiracy theories? China unleashed Covid, and then tried to cover it up. They allowed flights out of Wuhan except for in-China flights, WTF?! That is negligience on a massive scale. China owes the US reparations.

 

[Brain357]

My point is that the tariff can be avoided by buying US goods. Trump is trying to level the trade playing field to help US manufacturers and farmers. China's subsidized goods, currency manipulation, and dumping goods hurts US workers.

If US manufacturers want to be more competitive, they need to become more efficient and produce better products.

The thing is, the entire world's manufacturing relies on international trade. Something might be made in the US, but it's often made with foreign made components.

Its' why the manufacturing sector was already slumping before Covid hit.

The issue is trade fairness for US workers.
If other countries put tariffs on US goods, why shouldn't the US put tariffs on their goods?
Trump's team of Navarro and Lighthizer have done an outstanding job of making trade deals more fair to US workers.

US workers can't compete with the low foreign wages, period.
Trump's economy was the best in US history before the pandemic (released by China) hit.

So in a naval battle we should shoot holes in our own ships. Great idea!

Reagan on Free Trade and Siren Song of Protectionism - YouTube

Your TDS overwhelms your economic creds.
View attachment 436784

I was discussing rate of growth. Trumps claim of 4% was given. GDP increases anytime we aren't in a recession. It's about the rate of growth. Decreased in 2019 after all of trumps policy put in place. Huge failure.

• Real GDP growth rate by year in the U.S | Statista

The US GDP grew from $20.5T to $21.3T no one cares about the "rate of growth", just that it grew. Look at the unemployment rate, there was limited available labor, and wages were increasing. Trump hit the "sweet spot" for the economy, growing the lower half of wages. Thanks for playing.

View attachment 436798

The deficit grew hugely.

 

[kyzr]

My point is that the tariff can be avoided by buying US goods. Trump is trying to level the trade playing field to help US manufacturers and farmers. China's subsidized goods, currency manipulation, and dumping goods hurts US workers.

If US manufacturers want to be more competitive, they need to become more efficient and produce better products.

The thing is, the entire world's manufacturing relies on international trade. Something might be made in the US, but it's often made with foreign made components.

Its' why the manufacturing sector was already slumping before Covid hit.

The issue is trade fairness for US workers.
If other countries put tariffs on US goods, why shouldn't the US put tariffs on their goods?
Trump's team of Navarro and Lighthizer have done an outstanding job of making trade deals more fair to US workers.

US workers can't compete with the low foreign wages, period.
Trump's economy was the best in US history before the pandemic (released by China) hit.

So in a naval battle we should shoot holes in our own ships. Great idea!

Reagan on Free Trade and Siren Song of Protectionism - YouTube

Your TDS overwhelms your economic creds.
View attachment 436784

I was discussing rate of growth. Trumps claim of 4% was given. GDP increases anytime we aren't in a recession. It's about the rate of growth. Decreased in 2019 after all of trumps policy put in place. Huge failure.

• Real GDP growth rate by year in the U.S | Statista

The US GDP grew from $20.5T to $21.3T no one cares about the "rate of growth", just that it grew. Look at the unemployment rate, there was limited available labor, and wages were increasing. Trump hit the "sweet spot" for the economy, growing the lower half of wages. Thanks for playing.

View attachment 436798

GDP includes the billions the Federal Reserve pumps into the markets. Take that out and tell me how we are doing?

Fair point. Except that the Fed's balance sheet can be worked off over time. Better to print money than to have the US economy tank, isn't it?

 

[Cellblock2429]

Your article missed the point of helping US farmers since China retaliated against them for Trump's tariffs:

Trump Tariff Aid To Farmers Cost More Than U.S. Nuclear Forces

The $28 billion for farmers raises questions about using taxpayer money to shield policymakers from the consequences of tariff increases.

www.forbes.com

After a series of tariff increases on Chinese imports, the government of China retaliated against U.S. exporters, as predicted by trade analysts outside of the administration. As a result, U.S. exports, particularly of agricultural goods, dropped significantly. “Losing the world’s most populous country as an export market has been a major blow to the [U.S.] agriculture industry,” reported the New York Times in August 2019. “Total American agricultural exports to China were $24 billion in 2014 and fell to $9.1 billion last year, according to the American Farm Bureau.” In 2018, U.S. farmers’ soybean exports to China declined by 75%, according to the U.S. International Trade Commission.

/---/ As one of the Einstein's of Occupy Wall Street said, "We don't need farms. We get all the food we need from the grocery store."

 

[pknopp]

My point is that the tariff can be avoided by buying US goods. Trump is trying to level the trade playing field to help US manufacturers and farmers. China's subsidized goods, currency manipulation, and dumping goods hurts US workers.

If US manufacturers want to be more competitive, they need to become more efficient and produce better products.

The thing is, the entire world's manufacturing relies on international trade. Something might be made in the US, but it's often made with foreign made components.

Its' why the manufacturing sector was already slumping before Covid hit.

The issue is trade fairness for US workers.
If other countries put tariffs on US goods, why shouldn't the US put tariffs on their goods?
Trump's team of Navarro and Lighthizer have done an outstanding job of making trade deals more fair to US workers.

US workers can't compete with the low foreign wages, period.
Trump's economy was the best in US history before the pandemic (released by China) hit.

So in a naval battle we should shoot holes in our own ships. Great idea!

Reagan on Free Trade and Siren Song of Protectionism - YouTube

Your TDS overwhelms your economic creds.
View attachment 436784

I was discussing rate of growth. Trumps claim of 4% was given. GDP increases anytime we aren't in a recession. It's about the rate of growth. Decreased in 2019 after all of trumps policy put in place. Huge failure.

• Real GDP growth rate by year in the U.S | Statista

The US GDP grew from $20.5T to $21.3T no one cares about the "rate of growth", just that it grew. Look at the unemployment rate, there was limited available labor, and wages were increasing. Trump hit the "sweet spot" for the economy, growing the lower half of wages. Thanks for playing.

View attachment 436798

GDP includes the billions the Federal Reserve pumps into the markets. Take that out and tell me how we are doing?

Fair point. Except that the Fed's balance sheet can be worked off over time. Better to print money than to have the US economy tank, isn't it?

As long as you agree and understand there is absolutely nothing capitalistic about that. We also must understand it is WRONG to boost certain segments while other segments fall further behind.