US Government Checks Constituted 40% Of Farmers Income In 2020; USDA

[Desperado]

In a late October campaign appearance in Omaha, Neb., President Donald Trump said he believed farmers were better off getting government payments than relying solely on their farming receipts.

“In fact, some people say our farmers do better now than when they actually had a farm,” he said.

Many top farm states voted again for Trump in November, including Iowa, Nebraska, Texas and Kansas. Several, however, left Trump to vote for Democrat Joe Biden, including Wisconsin, Michigan and Georgia.

U.S. government checks constituted 40% of farmers' income in 2020: USDA

Iowa farmer says that without federal money it would have been difficult to make ends meet but that it began to feel as if the government checks were...

www.marketwatch.com

Well, now we know how red state farmers, and Trump really think about socialism.

1st cut the part where the government pays people not to grow stuff. No need for that.

 

[dblack]

Your article missed the point of helping US farmers since China retaliated against them for Trump's tariffs:

No one missed that taxes were taken from some to give to others.

OMG, it was TARIFF money given to farmers, NOT TAXES

Trump tariffs: How much is US collecting in revenue?

Federal spending continues to outpace revenue collection.

www.foxbusiness.com

The US collected $60b in tariffs from China and paid farmers $30b because China cut agri imports.
Stop with the whining already.

"Tariff money" is taxes but you know this. The US collected nothing from China.

Tariff money comes from importers.
They either take it from profits or add it to the price, either way its NOT paid by US taxpayers as you imply.

"It's different when we do it!"

 

[kyzr]

My point is that the tariff can be avoided by buying US goods. Trump is trying to level the trade playing field to help US manufacturers and farmers. China's subsidized goods, currency manipulation, and dumping goods hurts US workers.

If US manufacturers want to be more competitive, they need to become more efficient and produce better products.

The thing is, the entire world's manufacturing relies on international trade. Something might be made in the US, but it's often made with foreign made components.

Its' why the manufacturing sector was already slumping before Covid hit.

The issue is trade fairness for US workers.
If other countries put tariffs on US goods, why shouldn't the US put tariffs on their goods?
Trump's team of Navarro and Lighthizer have done an outstanding job of making trade deals more fair to US workers.

US workers can't compete with the low foreign wages, period.
Trump's economy was the best in US history before the pandemic (released by China) hit.

 

[dblack]

My point is that the tariff can be avoided by buying US goods. Trump is trying to level the trade playing field to help US manufacturers and farmers. China's subsidized goods, currency manipulation, and dumping goods hurts US workers.

If US manufacturers want to be more competitive, they need to become more efficient and produce better products.

The thing is, the entire world's manufacturing relies on international trade. Something might be made in the US, but it's often made with foreign made components.

Its' why the manufacturing sector was already slumping before Covid hit.

The issue is trade fairness for US workers.

Whenever liberals invoke the word "fairness", bend over.

 

[pknopp]

My point is that the tariff can be avoided by buying US goods. Trump is trying to level the trade playing field to help US manufacturers and farmers. China's subsidized goods, currency manipulation, and dumping goods hurts US workers.

If US manufacturers want to be more competitive, they need to become more efficient and produce better products.

The thing is, the entire world's manufacturing relies on international trade. Something might be made in the US, but it's often made with foreign made components.

Its' why the manufacturing sector was already slumping before Covid hit.

The issue is trade fairness for US workers.
If other countries put tariffs on US goods, why shouldn't the US put tariffs on their goods?
Trump's team of Navarro and Lighthizer have done an outstanding job of making trade deals more fair to US workers.

US workers can't compete with the low foreign wages, period.
Trump's economy was the best in US history before the pandemic (released by China) hit.

We did NOT get any new deal from China.

I'll note again also that the argument always go that you raise taxes when the economy is good. We did not. Trump ran up a new 8 trillion in debt.

 

[EL Rich]

Your article missed the point of helping US farmers since China retaliated against them for Trump's tariffs:

Well, that just shows Trump's trade wars were kind of stupid, since they hurt America more than they hurt China.

How did Trump's tariffs hurt the US??

U.S. farm bankruptcies hit an eight-year high: court data

Very true. Its hard to make a decent living on the family farm, especially the smaller farms. They get hit with bad weather, low prices, and other costs. I'm not surprised that we're losing 500 family farm a year. However, their farm isn't scrapped, its sold and bought by a more successful farmer.
Bottom line: Trump's tariffs have zero to do with the continual loss of small family farms.

Most importantly, thank you for staying civil and on topic in the face of repeated personal insults.
From what I’m seeing you are trying to have it both ways. First, you want government intervention through trying to discourage Americans from buying imports from specific countries (tariffs) and then you want a laissez-faire approach when huge industrial corporate owned farms take over smaller family owned farms. The irony here, from my perspective, is that if President Trump never started a trade war with China, the farmers (small and big alike) wouldn’t have needed the subsidies. This has also had the affect of artificially creating a business environment for farms that gives larger farms an advantage over smaller farms simply because their profit margins are so much bigger than smaller family run farms. So, it appears that while not creating this trend (not just in farming) of larger businesses taking over smaller ones, this policy has certainly expedited the move to the edge of financial insolvency for smaller businesses that rely on China as a major share of their market.

 

[kyzr]

My point is that the tariff can be avoided by buying US goods. Trump is trying to level the trade playing field to help US manufacturers and farmers. China's subsidized goods, currency manipulation, and dumping goods hurts US workers.

If US manufacturers want to be more competitive, they need to become more efficient and produce better products.

The thing is, the entire world's manufacturing relies on international trade. Something might be made in the US, but it's often made with foreign made components.

Its' why the manufacturing sector was already slumping before Covid hit.

The issue is trade fairness for US workers.
If other countries put tariffs on US goods, why shouldn't the US put tariffs on their goods?
Trump's team of Navarro and Lighthizer have done an outstanding job of making trade deals more fair to US workers.

US workers can't compete with the low foreign wages, period.
Trump's economy was the best in US history before the pandemic (released by China) hit.

We did NOT get any new deal from China.

I'll note again also that the argument always go that you raise taxes when the economy is good. We did not. Trump ran up a new 8 trillion in debt.

1. Trump used tariffs to manage China's unfair practices
2. Trump tried to juice the US economy and "grow" out of Debt...agreed that never works.
3. I'm still wondering if China owes the US for some of the cost of their Covid-19 pandemic.

 

[pknopp]

My point is that the tariff can be avoided by buying US goods. Trump is trying to level the trade playing field to help US manufacturers and farmers. China's subsidized goods, currency manipulation, and dumping goods hurts US workers.

If US manufacturers want to be more competitive, they need to become more efficient and produce better products.

The thing is, the entire world's manufacturing relies on international trade. Something might be made in the US, but it's often made with foreign made components.

Its' why the manufacturing sector was already slumping before Covid hit.

The issue is trade fairness for US workers.
If other countries put tariffs on US goods, why shouldn't the US put tariffs on their goods?
Trump's team of Navarro and Lighthizer have done an outstanding job of making trade deals more fair to US workers.

US workers can't compete with the low foreign wages, period.
Trump's economy was the best in US history before the pandemic (released by China) hit.

We did NOT get any new deal from China.

I'll note again also that the argument always go that you raise taxes when the economy is good. We did not. Trump ran up a new 8 trillion in debt.

1. Trump used tariffs to manage China's unfair practices

Nothing changed other than small farmers going bankrupt and a furthering of our debt.

2. Trump tried to juice the US economy and "grow" out of Debt...agreed that never works.

He said balancing the budget would be easy.

3. I'm still wondering if China owes the US for some of the cost of their Covid-19 pandemic.

Keep wondering. Nothing is going to happen there.

 

[kyzr]

Your article missed the point of helping US farmers since China retaliated against them for Trump's tariffs:

Well, that just shows Trump's trade wars were kind of stupid, since they hurt America more than they hurt China.

How did Trump's tariffs hurt the US??

U.S. farm bankruptcies hit an eight-year high: court data

Very true. Its hard to make a decent living on the family farm, especially the smaller farms. They get hit with bad weather, low prices, and other costs. I'm not surprised that we're losing 500 family farm a year. However, their farm isn't scrapped, its sold and bought by a more successful farmer.
Bottom line: Trump's tariffs have zero to do with the continual loss of small family farms.

Most importantly, thank you for staying civil and on topic in the face of repeated personal insults.
From what I’m seeing you are trying to have it both ways. First, you want government intervention through trying to discourage Americans from buying imports from specific countries (tariffs) and then you want a laissez-faire approach when huge industrial corporate owned farms take over smaller family owned farms. The irony here, from my perspective, is that if President Trump never started a trade war with China, the farmers (small and big alike) wouldn’t have needed the subsidies. This has also had the affect of artificially creating a business environment for farms that gives larger farms an advantage over smaller farms simply because their profit margins are so much bigger than smaller family run farms. So, it appears that while not creating this trend (not just in farming) of larger businesses taking over smaller ones, this policy has certainly expedited the move to the edge of financial insolvency for smaller businesses that rely on China as a major share of their market.

Totally agree with your post. However the "China Problem" still remains.
I support Trump's efforts to protect US workers from unfair/illegal practices.
If you don't support those, what do you suggest?

 

[kyzr]

My point is that the tariff can be avoided by buying US goods. Trump is trying to level the trade playing field to help US manufacturers and farmers. China's subsidized goods, currency manipulation, and dumping goods hurts US workers.

If US manufacturers want to be more competitive, they need to become more efficient and produce better products.

The thing is, the entire world's manufacturing relies on international trade. Something might be made in the US, but it's often made with foreign made components.

Its' why the manufacturing sector was already slumping before Covid hit.

The issue is trade fairness for US workers.
If other countries put tariffs on US goods, why shouldn't the US put tariffs on their goods?
Trump's team of Navarro and Lighthizer have done an outstanding job of making trade deals more fair to US workers.

US workers can't compete with the low foreign wages, period.
Trump's economy was the best in US history before the pandemic (released by China) hit.

We did NOT get any new deal from China.

I'll note again also that the argument always go that you raise taxes when the economy is good. We did not. Trump ran up a new 8 trillion in debt.

1. Trump used tariffs to manage China's unfair practices

Nothing changed other than small farmers going bankrupt and a furthering of our debt.

2. Trump tried to juice the US economy and "grow" out of Debt...agreed that never works.

He said balancing the budget would be easy.

3. I'm still wondering if China owes the US for some of the cost of their Covid-19 pandemic.

Keep wondering. Nothing is going to happen there.

1. Something changed...
China's growth slows. US economy stays strong

Breaking down the costs of Trump's trade war with China

President Donald Trump is set to sign a "phase one" trade deal with China on Wednesday, but the agreement -- which has been almost two years in the making -- won't lift the tariffs he's imposed on Chinese-made goods.

www.cnn.com

2. Trump used unrealistic economic growth (4%) to predict a balanced budget from the tax cuts, but the covid pandemic shot that assumption in the ass.

3. Agreed, Biden won't go after any remedies from China for their pandemic, the Bidens prefer Chinese cash.

 

[pknopp]

My point is that the tariff can be avoided by buying US goods. Trump is trying to level the trade playing field to help US manufacturers and farmers. China's subsidized goods, currency manipulation, and dumping goods hurts US workers.

If US manufacturers want to be more competitive, they need to become more efficient and produce better products.

The thing is, the entire world's manufacturing relies on international trade. Something might be made in the US, but it's often made with foreign made components.

Its' why the manufacturing sector was already slumping before Covid hit.

The issue is trade fairness for US workers.
If other countries put tariffs on US goods, why shouldn't the US put tariffs on their goods?
Trump's team of Navarro and Lighthizer have done an outstanding job of making trade deals more fair to US workers.

US workers can't compete with the low foreign wages, period.
Trump's economy was the best in US history before the pandemic (released by China) hit.

We did NOT get any new deal from China.

I'll note again also that the argument always go that you raise taxes when the economy is good. We did not. Trump ran up a new 8 trillion in debt.

1. Trump used tariffs to manage China's unfair practices

Nothing changed other than small farmers going bankrupt and a furthering of our debt.

2. Trump tried to juice the US economy and "grow" out of Debt...agreed that never works.

He said balancing the budget would be easy.

3. I'm still wondering if China owes the US for some of the cost of their Covid-19 pandemic.

Keep wondering. Nothing is going to happen there.

1. Something changed...
China's growth slows. US economy stays strong

Breaking down the costs of Trump's trade war with China

President Donald Trump is set to sign a "phase one" trade deal with China on Wednesday, but the agreement -- which has been almost two years in the making -- won't lift the tariffs he's imposed on Chinese-made goods.

www.cnn.com

2. Trump used unrealistic economic growth (4%) to predict a balanced budget from the tax cuts, but the covid pandemic shot that assumption in the ass.

3. Agreed, Biden won't go after any remedies from China for their pandemic, the Bidens prefer Chinese cash.

You are kidding yourself if you think we have a strong economy. Millions are at risk of not being able to pay their rent.

You do note what the real goal was though. To try and crash China's economy. That's why we are so disliked.

 

[Dana7360]

Capitalism.

What is happening with farmers isn't capitalism.

Farming has been socialism ever since the depression.

When the government pays farmers to not farm their land for the only reason to manipulated or control the means of production to keep the price of a commodity at a certain level, that's socialism.

That is the government controlling the means of production.

 

[Brain357]

In a late October campaign appearance in Omaha, Neb., President Donald Trump said he believed farmers were better off getting government payments than relying solely on their farming receipts.

“In fact, some people say our farmers do better now than when they actually had a farm,” he said.

Many top farm states voted again for Trump in November, including Iowa, Nebraska, Texas and Kansas. Several, however, left Trump to vote for Democrat Joe Biden, including Wisconsin, Michigan and Georgia.

U.S. government checks constituted 40% of farmers' income in 2020: USDA

Iowa farmer says that without federal money it would have been difficult to make ends meet but that it began to feel as if the government checks were...

www.marketwatch.com

Well, now we know how red state farmers, and Trump really think about socialism.

Those trump tariffs lead to a giant farmer bailout. What a success!

 

[Brain357]

My point is that the tariff can be avoided by buying US goods. Trump is trying to level the trade playing field to help US manufacturers and farmers. China's subsidized goods, currency manipulation, and dumping goods hurts US workers.

If US manufacturers want to be more competitive, they need to become more efficient and produce better products.

The thing is, the entire world's manufacturing relies on international trade. Something might be made in the US, but it's often made with foreign made components.

Its' why the manufacturing sector was already slumping before Covid hit.

The issue is trade fairness for US workers.
If other countries put tariffs on US goods, why shouldn't the US put tariffs on their goods?
Trump's team of Navarro and Lighthizer have done an outstanding job of making trade deals more fair to US workers.

US workers can't compete with the low foreign wages, period.
Trump's economy was the best in US history before the pandemic (released by China) hit.

So in a naval battle we should shoot holes in our own ships. Great idea!

Reagan on Free Trade and Siren Song of Protectionism - YouTube

 

[Brain357]

My point is that the tariff can be avoided by buying US goods. Trump is trying to level the trade playing field to help US manufacturers and farmers. China's subsidized goods, currency manipulation, and dumping goods hurts US workers.

If US manufacturers want to be more competitive, they need to become more efficient and produce better products.

The thing is, the entire world's manufacturing relies on international trade. Something might be made in the US, but it's often made with foreign made components.

Its' why the manufacturing sector was already slumping before Covid hit.

The issue is trade fairness for US workers.
If other countries put tariffs on US goods, why shouldn't the US put tariffs on their goods?
Trump's team of Navarro and Lighthizer have done an outstanding job of making trade deals more fair to US workers.

US workers can't compete with the low foreign wages, period.
Trump's economy was the best in US history before the pandemic (released by China) hit.

We did NOT get any new deal from China.

I'll note again also that the argument always go that you raise taxes when the economy is good. We did not. Trump ran up a new 8 trillion in debt.

1. Trump used tariffs to manage China's unfair practices

Nothing changed other than small farmers going bankrupt and a furthering of our debt.

2. Trump tried to juice the US economy and "grow" out of Debt...agreed that never works.

He said balancing the budget would be easy.

3. I'm still wondering if China owes the US for some of the cost of their Covid-19 pandemic.

Keep wondering. Nothing is going to happen there.

1. Something changed...
China's growth slows. US economy stays strong

Breaking down the costs of Trump's trade war with China

President Donald Trump is set to sign a "phase one" trade deal with China on Wednesday, but the agreement -- which has been almost two years in the making -- won't lift the tariffs he's imposed on Chinese-made goods.

www.cnn.com

2. Trump used unrealistic economic growth (4%) to predict a balanced budget from the tax cuts, but the covid pandemic shot that assumption in the ass.

3. Agreed, Biden won't go after any remedies from China for their pandemic, the Bidens prefer Chinese cash.

In 2019 we had all of trumps policy in place. GDP growth DECLINED!!!!! That is pre pandemic.

 

[kyzr]

My point is that the tariff can be avoided by buying US goods. Trump is trying to level the trade playing field to help US manufacturers and farmers. China's subsidized goods, currency manipulation, and dumping goods hurts US workers.

If US manufacturers want to be more competitive, they need to become more efficient and produce better products.

The thing is, the entire world's manufacturing relies on international trade. Something might be made in the US, but it's often made with foreign made components.

Its' why the manufacturing sector was already slumping before Covid hit.

The issue is trade fairness for US workers.
If other countries put tariffs on US goods, why shouldn't the US put tariffs on their goods?
Trump's team of Navarro and Lighthizer have done an outstanding job of making trade deals more fair to US workers.

US workers can't compete with the low foreign wages, period.
Trump's economy was the best in US history before the pandemic (released by China) hit.

So in a naval battle we should shoot holes in our own ships. Great idea!

Reagan on Free Trade and Siren Song of Protectionism - YouTube

Your TDS overwhelms your economic creds.

 

[EL Rich]

Your article missed the point of helping US farmers since China retaliated against them for Trump's tariffs:

Well, that just shows Trump's trade wars were kind of stupid, since they hurt America more than they hurt China.

How did Trump's tariffs hurt the US??

U.S. farm bankruptcies hit an eight-year high: court data

Very true. Its hard to make a decent living on the family farm, especially the smaller farms. They get hit with bad weather, low prices, and other costs. I'm not surprised that we're losing 500 family farm a year. However, their farm isn't scrapped, its sold and bought by a more successful farmer.
Bottom line: Trump's tariffs have zero to do with the continual loss of small family farms.

Most importantly, thank you for staying civil and on topic in the face of repeated personal insults.
From what I’m seeing you are trying to have it both ways. First, you want government intervention through trying to discourage Americans from buying imports from specific countries (tariffs) and then you want a laissez-faire approach when huge industrial corporate owned farms take over smaller family owned farms. The irony here, from my perspective, is that if President Trump never started a trade war with China, the farmers (small and big alike) wouldn’t have needed the subsidies. This has also had the affect of artificially creating a business environment for farms that gives larger farms an advantage over smaller farms simply because their profit margins are so much bigger than smaller family run farms. So, it appears that while not creating this trend (not just in farming) of larger businesses taking over smaller ones, this policy has certainly expedited the move to the edge of financial insolvency for smaller businesses that rely on China as a major share of their market.

Totally agree with your post. However the "China Problem" still remains.
I support Trump's efforts to protect US workers from unfair/illegal practices.
If you don't support those, what do you suggest?

As I get older, I really think democratic-style governments power to create change is somewhat limited. So while I would love universal health care, pretty sure handing that over to the Federal govt. is a recipe for disaster.
Agreed, China is/has behaved in ways that are totally unacceptable. And we can’t just pretend they do not exist or think that the US has the power by ourselves to affect the changes in their policies we wish to see. I think the answer is slow, plodding, boring diplomacy based on relying on a system of alliances. From what I can see, that is the only way we would have the leverage to move the needle at all. Unfortunately, President Trump has moved away from that and tried to strong arm the Xi. But because of our system of government all Xi had to do was wait him (Trump) out, knowing that he would be the leader of China long after Trump was out of office.
My point is, playing a game you are destined to loose is pointless and unproductive. In fact, based on the trade deal China just agreed on with the EU, we are in a far weaker position in regards to China than we were before this policy was enacted. While do something feels good, sometimes it’s best to just not make things worse.
At this point, our best path forward might be Biden trying to reestablish the partnerships created and fosters by the last 5 administrations. The same ones Trump has burnt down to fire up folks who truly desire American Greatness....something almost everyone can agree is more desirable than the alternative.

 

[Brain357]

My point is that the tariff can be avoided by buying US goods. Trump is trying to level the trade playing field to help US manufacturers and farmers. China's subsidized goods, currency manipulation, and dumping goods hurts US workers.

If US manufacturers want to be more competitive, they need to become more efficient and produce better products.

The thing is, the entire world's manufacturing relies on international trade. Something might be made in the US, but it's often made with foreign made components.

Its' why the manufacturing sector was already slumping before Covid hit.

The issue is trade fairness for US workers.
If other countries put tariffs on US goods, why shouldn't the US put tariffs on their goods?
Trump's team of Navarro and Lighthizer have done an outstanding job of making trade deals more fair to US workers.

US workers can't compete with the low foreign wages, period.
Trump's economy was the best in US history before the pandemic (released by China) hit.

So in a naval battle we should shoot holes in our own ships. Great idea!

Reagan on Free Trade and Siren Song of Protectionism - YouTube

Your TDS overwhelms your economic creds.
View attachment 436784

I was discussing rate of growth. Trumps claim of 4% was given. GDP increases anytime we aren't in a recession. It's about the rate of growth. Decreased in 2019 after all of trumps policy put in place. Huge failure.

• Real GDP growth rate by year in the U.S | Statista

 

[Brain357]

Trumps policy was a failure. Couldn't even hit annual growth of 3% with a trillion dollar deficit.

 

[pknopp]

Capitalism.

What is happening with farmers isn't capitalism.

Farming has been socialism ever since the depression.

When the government pays farmers to not farm their land for the only reason to manipulated or control the means of production to keep the price of a commodity at a certain level, that's socialism.

That is the government controlling the means of production.

According the arguments we are a Capitalist country, not a Socialist one so what you say can't be true based upon that argument.