Unsolicited mail in voting WILL BE the downfall of our nation

[scruffy]

What do you want to hear or perceive in your head, illegitimate votes?

I vote absentee ballot, and MY VOTE is just as important to count as yours or anyone elses!

Trying to cut off legitimate votes from citizens that followed the rules, because someone else is slow to count it, is utter bull shit, wouldn't you agree?

If your ballot got there in time and you signed and dated it, your vote should be counted.

But... this "slow" thing - they use HIGH SPEED sorters and scanners, they can do almost 100k ballots/hr. So for instance in Maricopa with a little north of 2 million voters, that should take all of 20 hours.

 

[Kondor3]

So why are you bullshitting us?

Show me where I did that.

Just a couple of weeks ago there was a guy that stuck a USB drive in a voting computer.

Yep. And he was caught. But the system should have been bulletproofed better.

And that breach was an attempt to harvest names, not to tamper with balloting.

And you're bleating about no evidence, and everything's secure, all hunky dory.

Nope. Never said everything is all secure.

But none of that pertains to the 2020 general election and the lack of evidence of wrongdoing sufficient to reverse the outcome.

Okay, so you tell me Mr Security Expert, do we have proper controls?

Depends on the jurisdiction, doesn't it? And the systems employed. And the legal setting. And the local political climate.

For jurisdictions utilizing unique identifiers for their ballots - which encompasses most jurisdictions - sufficient control exists to preclude duplication.

Now... whether those ballots are going to eligible voters... again, in most jurisdictions the answer is "yes", and challenges have withstood extensive auditing.

Actually I do. But I ain't gonna argue with you about it. I'm not here to engage in a credentials battle, I'm here to solve problems

You are here to spread Trump's Big Lie just like your colleagues.

And that's kinda the point. I'm here to solve them. You're not.

I'm here to contribute my tiny miniscule part in keeping alive the memory of January 6, 2021, and to help refute and ridicule Trump's Big Lie.

I believe you. (Having no reason not to).

The "tech" is easy enough, alright.

Well, if you worked for the feds, you're aware that technology is almost never an issue, and money is rarely an issue, which leaves politics.

True enough.

In Maricopa County, they use a contractor called Runbeck that has some high speed sorting machines. The state could buy these machines themselves, at 1.1 million each, but they'd only use them every other year, so they hire Runbeck for a few "runs" at 50k a pop or some such thing.

So now, tell me how this looks to you from a security standpoint.

Government at all levels utilize contractors and subcontractors all the time in virtually all aspects of administration and operations.

So long as the contractor complies with relevant statute and results are spot-checked and capable of withstanding the occasional audit that is mere routine.

Happens all the time... dog bites man... so long as the contractor utilizes proper controls and so long as the jurisdiction monitors for compliance... MEH.

 

[scruffy]

And that breach was an attempt to harvest names, not to tamper with balloting.

Nope. Never said everything is all secure.

Why is it not secure?

Would you agree that voting is a mission critical system?

But none of that pertains to the 2020 general election and the lack of evidence of wrongdoing sufficient to reverse the outcome.

But nobody ever said anything about that.

Leastwise I didn't.

We're talking about this WEEK, just a few days ago

Depends on the jurisdiction, doesn't it? And the systems employed. And the legal setting. And the local political climate.

Why?

Tell me how this makes sense.

Let's say you're Kaiser, that's a big provider, they have like 50 hospitals in CA (almost like 50 states) - are you going to tell each one of those hospitals to formulate their own security plan, and go with whatever they come up with?

So now, instead of outsourcing our mission critical high security operation to a foreign corporation like Dominion, we have FIFTY such glaring security holes.

If you were going to compromise someone or install someone, the easiest and most effective place to do it would there, like at the printers' in Maricopa. That is the one and only time ballots are out of view of election officials, the rest of the time they have workers and bosses and observers from both parties

For jurisdictions utilizing unique identifiers for their ballots - which encompasses most jurisdictions - sufficient control exists to preclude duplication.

Now... whether those ballots are going to eligible voters... again, in most jurisdictions the answer is "yes", and challenges have withstood extensive auditing.

No, not auditing. We've already determined auditing is impossible. Recounts are not auditing. Testing is not auditing either.

No one has yet busted my homeless guy and college student scenarios.

You are here to spread Trump's Big Lie just like your colleagues.

I'm here to contribute my tiny miniscule part in keeping alive the memory of January 6, 2021, and to help refute and ridicule Trump's Big Lie.

You're one of those?

Listen up - our government is constitutionally required by the highest law in the land to guarantee to every state a republican form of government.

They can not do that, if the vote isn't secure.

The "tech" is easy enough, alright.

True enough.

Government at all levels utilize contractors and subcontractors all the time in virtually all aspects of administration and operations.

So long as the contractor complies with relevant statute and results are spot-checked and capable of withstanding the occasional audit that is mere routine.

Happens all the time... dog bites man... so long as the contractor utilizes proper controls and so long as the jurisdiction monitors for compliance... MEH.

Meh. Yeah. That's not a security perspective.

In security, we use every tool available to us. A statistical anomaly, is what cops and mil call "a blip on the radar screen". If the blip happens several times in a row like in Antrim Co MI, Maricopa, Fulton County GA... the blip changes to a ping.

This is not a new thing, it's been going on forever. This country is back in the 60's with election security. They don't want to spend the money to upgrade? They spend money on every other damn thing, why not a little coverage for the mission critical vote?

 

[Care4all]

If your ballot got there in time and you signed and dated it, your vote should be counted.

But... this "slow" thing - they use HIGH SPEED sorters and scanners, they can do almost 100k ballots/hr. So for instance in Maricopa with a little north of 2 million voters, that should take all of 20 hours.

It takes more time to process absentee ballots, unlike votes via machine on election day.

Before any ballot is removed states have to have teams of two, from 2 different parties do all of the verification for each individual absentee envelope returned in each batch from each district in each county, that includes signature matching with the registration signature on file, and other things that each state requires to be verified, like no ballot can be counted if the voter did not request a ballot, so some if not all states verify that an absentee ballot was requested.... this prevents ballot dumping from nefarious printed ballots....

And then after the poll workers are done with this, the envelopes are opened and saved with a count of how many, and the ballots are unfolded and smoothed out so they can be fed in to the count scanners, and returned to the ballot cases for the district and county the votes came from....when these ballots are scanned, the count of them by the machine, has to match the count of the absentee envelopes the poll workers opened...

If the count is under, then ballots are missing or the machine is not scanning properly, if there is an overage then some funny business of ballot stuffing or running a ballot thru twice is caught.

There is only so much money allotted to elections and workers by the state....if the state or political parties want it done faster, then they NEED TO FUND IT!

So, the machines are fine and can process thousands of ballots in a short time,

But it is the verification process and security checks for the increasingly popular absentee ballot, that is taking all of the extended time.

 

[scruffy]

It takes more time to process absentee ballots, unlike votes via machine on election day.

Before any ballot is removed states have to have teams of two, from 2 different parties do all of the verification for each individual absentee envelope returned in each batch from each district in each county, that includes signature matching with the registration signature on file, and other things that each state requires to be verified, like no ballot can be counted if the voter did not request a ballot, so some if not all states verify that an absentee ballot was requested.... this prevents ballot dumping from nefarious printed ballots....

And then after the poll workers are done with this, the envelopes are opened and saved with a count of how many, and the ballots are unfolded and smoothed out so they can be fed in to the count scanners, and returned to the ballot cases for the district and county the votes came from....when these ballots are scanned, the count of them by the machine, has to match the count of the absentee envelopes the poll workers opened...

If the count is under, then ballots are missing or the machine is not scanning properly, if there is an overage then some funny business of ballot stuffing or running a ballot thru twice is caught.

There is only so much money allotted to elections and workers by the state....if the state or political parties want it done faster, then they NEED TO FUND IT!

So, the machines are fine and can process thousands of ballots in a short time,

But it is the verification process and security checks for the increasingly popular absentee ballot, that is taking all of the extended time.

That's all nice and theoretical.

But then we get this in real life:

It's Not Just St. Louis - New York City Is Training Election Workers to Accept ALL SIGNATURES That Are WILDLY UNMATCHED | The Gateway Pundit | by Jim Hoft

Earlier this week The Gateway Pundit reported on how St.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

And this from Jocelyn Benson in MI:

Judge strikes down directive on absentee ballot signatures

LANSING, Mich. (AP) — A judge has struck down a state directive that encourages local election clerks to be very flexible when reviewing signatures on absentee ballots.

apnews.com

And this from PA

Pennsylvania Will No Longer Match Voters' Signatures | Law & Crime

The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania relaxed controversial verification rules for the processing of mail-in ballots last week in a decided victory and boon for voting rights advocates. The decision also short-circuits a voting access lawsuit already in progress.

lawandcrime.com

Here's the general case:

16 AGs Call on DHS to Verify Citizenship Information of Registered Voters - Tennessee Star

Sixteen attorneys general, led by Ohio AG Dave Yost, called on Department of Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas to provide voter registration information to states, particularly when it relates to citizenship status.

tennesseestar.com

 

[Care4all]

That's all nice and theoretical.

But then we get this in real life:

It's Not Just St. Louis - New York City Is Training Election Workers to Accept ALL SIGNATURES That Are WILDLY UNMATCHED | The Gateway Pundit | by Jim Hoft

Earlier this week The Gateway Pundit reported on how St.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

And this from Jocelyn Benson in MI:

Judge strikes down directive on absentee ballot signatures

LANSING, Mich. (AP) — A judge has struck down a state directive that encourages local election clerks to be very flexible when reviewing signatures on absentee ballots.

apnews.com

And this from PA

Pennsylvania Will No Longer Match Voters' Signatures | Law & Crime

The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania relaxed controversial verification rules for the processing of mail-in ballots last week in a decided victory and boon for voting rights advocates. The decision also short-circuits a voting access lawsuit already in progress.

lawandcrime.com

Here's the general case:

16 AGs Call on DHS to Verify Citizenship Information of Registered Voters - Tennessee Star

Sixteen attorneys general, led by Ohio AG Dave Yost, called on Department of Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas to provide voter registration information to states, particularly when it relates to citizenship status.

tennesseestar.com

Jiminey Cricket! Why the hell are you giving me years old articles of which none of those cases are involved in the 2022 election, or how elections were run in 2022?

Your spinning has nothing to do with the 2022 midterms and nothing to do with my post!



Grrrrrrrrrr!

 

[scruffy]

Jiminey Cricket! Why the hell are you giving me years old articles of which none of those cases are involved in the 2022 election, or how elections were run in 2022?

Your spinning has nothing to do with the 2022 midterms and nothing to do with my post!



Grrrrrrrrrr!

"signature matching with the registration signature on file"

I'm sorry you're not thinking today.

It's not a random occurrence, not a coincidence, it's a... (say it with me)... PATTERN.

That's right boys and girls. And a very partisan one at that

 

[Kondor3]

Why is it not secure?

Because the Constitution allows each of the fifty states to run their own election mechanisms.

For the late 18th Century and for much of our history since, that made sense, give-or-take a bit.

For the 21st Century and beyond, it makes far less sense, and something should probably be done to conjure-up and enforce integrity and uniformity.

Would you agree that voting is a mission critical system?

Absolutely. Without question.

But nobody ever said anything about that. Leastwise I didn't. We're talking about this WEEK, just a few days ago

Unfortunately for Republicans, one is linked inextricably to the other; a state of affairs initiated by Rumpians.

Why? Tell me how this makes sense. Let's say you're Kaiser, that's a big provider, they have like 50 hospitals in CA (almost like 50 states) - are you going to tell each one of those hospitals to formulate their own security plan, and go with whatever they come up with? So now, instead of outsourcing our mission critical high security operation to a foreign corporation like Dominion, we have FIFTY such glaring security holes.

Oh, but it doesn't make sense, at least not in the 21st Century. See above, a para or two.

If you were going to compromise someone or install someone, the easiest and most effective place to do it would there, like at the printers' in Maricopa. That is the one and only time ballots are out of view of election officials, the rest of the time they have workers and bosses and observers from both parties

Yep. Now, all you need is compelling evidence that these "holes" and "gaps" and "suspected backdoors" actually yielded outcome-changing outputs.

Not coulda-shoulda-woulda... but actual impacted outcomes... and you don't have that. Why? Because it didn't happen. Neither in 2020 nor 2022.

No, not auditing. We've already determined auditing is impossible. Recounts are not auditing. Testing is not auditing either.

Yes. Audits. In both spot-check and detailed forms. In multiple jurisdictions where challenges were made. Audits consist of applying voter rolls to eligibility and validity testing with cross-indexing to numbered ballots. And in virtually all instances such detailed auditing withstands a very close bipartisan scrutiny.

No one has yet busted my homeless guy and college student scenarios.

The existence of a weakness does not prove that it has been exploited substantively.

You can serve as a poster-boy for the overhaul and standardization of voting mechanics well enough but you lack compelling proof of such exploitation.

You're one of those?

Yep.

Listen up - our government is constitutionally required by the highest law in the land to guarantee to every state a republican form of government. They can not do that, if the vote isn't secure.

So you are saying - for all intents and purposes - that each-and-every election that has occurred in this country since the general election of 1790 (including the 2016 Presidential election) wasn't sufficiently secure or accurate to rely upon? The ghosts of George and Abe would not be happy campers to hear that.

You are right to point out that there are "holes" - both known and suspected - in our nationwide gaggle of election mechanics. I stand alongside you in this.

You are wrong to pretend that such "holes" have been substantively exploited and that they were responsible for reversing or altering election outcomes.

On a widespread popular level this disingenuous self-serving position stems from and is comically and easily exploited by the Orange Comb-Over miscreant.

...Meh. Yeah. That's not a security perspective. In security, we use every tool available to us. A statistical anomaly, is what cops and mil call "a blip on the radar screen". If the blip happens several times in a row like in Antrim Co MI, Maricopa, Fulton County GA... the blip changes to a ping. This is not a new thing, it's been going on forever. This country is back in the 60's with election security. They don't want to spend the money to upgrade? They spend money on every other damn thing, why not a little coverage for the mission critical vote?

Your definition of "anomaly" was adjudicated as "false" or "nonexistent" echoes time after time in jurisdiction after jurisdiction - 61 of 62 times after 2020.

Your Orange Baboon and his minions rolled the dice 62 times, oftentimes appearing before GOP or even Rump -appointed judges, and crapped-out.

And if we filter out the subset of those 62 that were set aside for lack of standing we're still left with a large remainder thrown out for lack of merit.

Want to reform election mechanics - even election policy - nationwide? Fine. Go for it. I'll join you.

Want to spin the Orange Baboon's Big Lie that he got his a$$ kicked because of large-scale, widespread, substantive exploitation of system "holes"?

Armed with nothing but finger-pointing at systemic weaknesses, you face stiff opposition from damned-near everybody outside the Rumpian base.

Your "Stolen Election" never happened and most voters not in your orbit understand this - viscerally - given the threat the Big Lie poses to the Republic.

It's one of the reasons why the so-called Red Tsunammi of 2022 ended-up as a Red Dripping Faucet of 2022... whether you choose to admit it or not.

Game. Set. Match.