Universal Healthcare question for everyone

[JoeB131]

With deficits?

My dad is ex military. He asked me not to join. I regret it. Such is life.

As you should. you'd be a lot more mature now if you had.

 

[JoeB131]

Let’s go back to that

Before employers started picking it up as a fringe benefit, it was known as "hospitalization insurance".....All it covered was catastrophic events.

Except you two nitwits forget WHY it expanded to all medical care.

If you are paying $6000 out of your own pocket for, let's say, a Colonoscopy, you are probably going to put that off because it's kind of an unpleasant procedure. You might even ignore a few symptoms.


Then you leave it alone for long enough, it turns into colon cancer instead of a simple polyp removal, and that costs tens of thousands to treat, and you probably ended up dying anyway.

Insurance companies realized that preventative medicine was cheaper than catastrophic medicine.

 

[JoeB131]

Kool your jets, Rambo Charlie-Joe.

1. Not everyone who wants to join the military can.

My dad, during WWII joined the Navy out of high school, but was only in for less than two weeks before discharged due to back injuries from playing football in HS.
I had similar during the '60s('Nam years) with doing Civil Air Patrol during my HS years, with plan to go into the Air Force, only to be medically disqualified.
Point is, not everyone who doesn't serve in the military is "never have the backbone to do." as your un-called-for snarky, broadbrush insult implies, so bilge it.

2. As for the "free" education by joining the military, that's partly why the pay and benefits are low to start, lower than on the outside civilian world would be, because after doing your time you get some of that college paid for. I say 'some' because last I knew, there was a pro-rate depending on the amount of technical training one gets, that would be transferable to civilian job market demands. That aside, it still barely covers tuition and books, IF you don't pick an expensive college to go to. My older son, who joined the Army while still in high school, and went to Iraq as infantry, (c. 2004, 1st Cav - Baghdad, CIB, etc.)found he still had living expenses he would have to cover for out of his own pocket ~ part to full time working on the side, when he did the college=G.I. Benefit pay scheme.

Somehow, I doubt Zoggie had a football injury.

I should point out that I originally tried to join the Navy, but they rejected me because I had an overbite. So I 'settled' for the army. I made enough money as a reservist to pay my fees and my tuition was covered. And I was hardly an athlete, but I was good at my job.

4. As for the Post Office, my experience about 26 years ago as "temp" shows more than just that 'pension issue' is the cause/fault. At that time I had passed the entrance test one takes, but so had many more than the PO needed. I was offered a "part-time, temporary" job at a bulk mail processing center - where periodicals, packages, some 2nd-3rd class, etc. mail is sorted and routed. Basket carts of mail comes in from local post offices, we then sort into other basket-carts per zip code for reroute back to the distant bulk centers and local Zip=POs. This tended to be a night shift since the incoming was at the end of a work day, and the out-go needed to be at destination for the next morning sort and delivery.

Kind of irrelevant to my point, that the only reason why the USPS has a debt is because Republicans in Congress mandated a pension scheme to pay out for 50 years. They make more than enough to cover operational costs otherwise, and more importantly, they do the function they are required to do.

 

[Greenbeard]

Libs want UH. Bernie Sanders is a champion of it but there are many who agree with the Socialist.

The argument is that it works in Europe.

Now in Europe education is free. It’s not in the US. A MD will not begin to make real money til they have gone through 4 yrs of undergrad, 3 yrs of med school and a 4 yr residency. That’s expensive and usually the lie between $400-600k in debt. Funny, I have a client who is an MD from India. In India he said you go straight to med school. No undergrad requirement. Makes sense. But I digress. Let’s say the person goes through the undergrad, med school and residency and soon becomes a renowned surgeon like Dr. James Andrews was.

Let’s say he gets paid $4mil per year. Now comes UH. How much does that doctor make now? How does UH reward our best doctors?

If I am a plumber I may charge what I want. Why can’t I do that as a doctor?

Sounds more like an issue with the way higher education is financed than health care. Letting student debt dictate how the health care system is financed seems a bit backwards.

Anyway, suppose the answer is that the doctor would make about the same. Does that help the argument?

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

As you should. you'd be a lot more mature now if you had.

I am a husband and father. I provide for my family. That’s the epitome of being a man. Just because I call you out on your bullshit doesn’t make me childish.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Except you two nitwits forget WHY it expanded to all medical care.

If you are paying $6000 out of your own pocket for, let's say, a Colonoscopy, you are probably going to put that off because it's kind of an unpleasant procedure. You might even ignore a few symptoms.


Then you leave it alone for long enough, it turns into colon cancer instead of a simple polyp removal, and that costs tens of thousands to treat, and you probably ended up dying anyway.

Insurance companies realized that preventative medicine was cheaper than catastrophic medicine.

A colonoscopy would not be $6k if we had free markets. And if I am not paying $700 per month for health insurance I likely have the money for a $2.5k colonoscopy. Also colonoscopies aren’t recommended unless you’re 50. Usually 50 yr olds have some savings and such.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Sounds more like an issue with the way higher education is financed than health care. Letting student debt dictate how the health care system is financed seems a bit backwards.

Anyway, suppose the answer is that the doctor would make about the same. Does that help the argument?

How would they “make about the same”?

 

[Greenbeard]

How would they “make about the same”?

How would they not?

 

[Zincwarrior]

A colonoscopy would not be $6k if we had free markets.

Your statement is based on what?

 

[dblack]

Except you two nitwits forget WHY it expanded to all medical care.

If you are paying $6000 out of your own pocket for, let's say, a Colonoscopy, you are probably going to put that off because it's kind of an unpleasant procedure. You might even ignore a few symptoms.


Then you leave it alone for long enough, it turns into colon cancer instead of a simple polyp removal, and that costs tens of thousands to treat, and you probably ended up dying anyway.

Insurance companies realized that preventative medicine was cheaper than catastrophic medicine.

LOL - no. Insurance companies sought to insert themselves as profit-skimming middlemen on every single health care transaction. And our government willingly colluded with them in that effort.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

How would they not?

Because when everything goes through single payer the MDs have limited to no negotiation power

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Your statement is based on what?

Based on the fact that I have financed many a surgical center that specializes in them.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Based on the fact that I have financed many a surgical center that specializes in them.

Informative. Based on that whats should the price be? This is not a criticism, this is a question.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Informative. Based on that whats should the price be? This is not a criticism, this is a question.

Interesting a lot of the cost is renting out the hospital room by the surgeon or medical professional. If you open your own center you don’t need to do that. You just have to pay off the RE loan. So you’re basically paying the nurse, anesthesiologist and yourself. Plus minor material costs. You can do 5-6 per day. So your price in MA if not for the insurance BS would be about $2.5k each.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Interesting a lot of the cost is renting out the hospital room by the surgeon or medical professional. If you open your own center you don’t need to do that. You just have to pay off the RE loan. So you’re basically paying the nurse, anesthesiologist and yourself. Plus minor material costs. You can do 5-6 per day. So your price in MA if not for the insurance BS would be about $2.5k each.

Thank you that is helpful.

 

[AsherN]

So I ask again. How much should MDs get paid under UH? Since they can’t bill what they want a way a plumber or an architect could.

The get paid whatever the Medical Association negotiates with the Province. It is that simple. There is also not a lot of wasted time filling out different billing for different insurance companies. or fighting with them because they denied a test or a referral. Costs to the practice are lower.

 

[AsherN]

Plumbers will tell you their fees upfront. Hourly labor charge, parts needed, trip charge.

True story.
My second hernia surgery cost me (out of pocket) $150 more than the same surgery on the other side a few months earlier. I checked the details of the surgery including who was on the operating team and discovered a person not covered by my insurance. I contacted my insurance company, and they looked into it as well. The doctor had brought in a colleague as an observer who wasn't a covered physician but added a charge for (her) anyway. The insurance company reduced my bill by $150. If I hadn't had the same surgery earlier, I wouldn't have questioned the bill. How often this happens is anyone's guess.

My hernia surgery cost me $0.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

My hernia surgery cost me $0.

So you don’t pay taxes?

 

[AsherN]

We see that for most government employees -- a Doctor in Universal Healthcare is now just a government employee --

They are not. They are independent contractors that negotiate the fee structure with the government.

 

[hadit]

In the 1970s healthcare in America was by a private doctor in a private practice, and you paid out of pocket. That motivated you to live a healthy lifestyle, and kept government out of it.

As government has increased its participation in healthcare...

1. costs have skyrocketed
2. you do not have the right to choose your doctor
3. you can only do what your mandated health insurer will pay for
4. doctors are compromised by being "socialized" - Covid fraud being the result
5. "healthcare" in America is mostly pushing pharmaceuticals on morons who don't really need them
6. government controlled healthcare used Covid fraud to force Murderous FRAUD Vax, and USMB lost Easy65 (and possibly more) because of that


A healthy dose of LIBERTARIANISM in healthcare is urgently needed.

That is why I advocated that people looking to save money on medical care should set up a private contract with a doctor and pay him a flat fee for each person in his family to get one physical exam per year. The doctor would jump at it because there would be no dealing with a reluctant insurance company and you could save a good bit. Then you could get a high deductible insurance policy for catastrophic care and save again.

Note that this would have been illegal had Hillarycare, aka Hillary Clinton's attempt to socialize American medicine, succeeded.