Universal Healthcare question for everyone

[dblack]

I definitely do not understand the idea that people want me to help pay for their health care.
I have not been sick in over 35 years. The only time I see a doctor is for a yearly physical. I eat well and exercise regularly. Perhaps before I die that may or may not change.
But I really would like someone to explain why I need to help pay the medical costs of someone who runs to the doctor every time they get a sniffle or the costs of someone that sits on the couch and eats constantly until they are morbidly obese. Or someone that eats so much fast food that their arteries are clogged to the point they are a walking time bomb. They made the decision to not take care of themselves

I don't have a problem with risk sharing. That's the basic concept of insurance. You pay a premium and you're covered in case you need it. Hopefully you don't. Hopefully you stay healthy and your premiums are used to pay the bills for someone else who wasn't so lucky.

The problem is that, with modern "full-coverage" health insurance, we're trying to do cost sharing rather than risk sharing. We're trying to use insurance as a means of financing regular health care expenses. Which is fundamentally irrational. It leaves consumers covered by this kind of insurance with no incentive to seek lower priced health care, and they don't. Arguably, they have the opposite incentive - to choose the most expensive option available to them at every decision point. Once these kinds of consumers make up a majority of the health care market, it's virtually impossible to keep health care prices from rising. That's where we're at now.

As a "thought experiment", imagine if we tried to deal with groceries the same we we're trying to deal with health care. Let's say employers started giving employees "food cards" as a benefit. These food cards would buy you whatever groceries you want or need. Once a majority of grocery shoppers were using these cards, what do you think would happen to grocery prices? Of course, they'd spiral out of control. It would get to the point where people without the cards could no longer afford groceries. And then some aspiring politician would insist that only the government can feed us.

The bottom line is, we need less health insurance, not more. We should only be insuring against unexpected calamities, and should pay for routine health care out of pocket. That will restore market balance and provide the needed incentive for lower cost health care.

Or we throw up our hands, and succumb to the government's "solution". We give in to the pitch that ordinary people simply can't afford ordinary health care, and the only way you can keep from dying in an alley somewhere is to put politicians in charge.

"Doctor Trump will see you now ..."

 

[Maxdeath]

I don't have a problem with risk sharing. That's the basic concept of insurance. You pay a premium and you're covered in case you need it. Hopefully you don't. Hopefully you stay healthy and your premiums are used to pay the bills for someone else who wasn't so lucky.

The problem is that, with modern "full-coverage" health insurance, we're trying to do cost sharing rather than risk sharing. We're trying to use insurance as a means of financing regular health care expenses. Which is fundamentally irrational. It leaves consumers covered by this kind of insurance with no incentive to seek lower priced health care, and they don't. Arguably, they have the opposite incentive - to choose the most expensive option available to them at every decision point. Once these kinds of consumers make up a majority of the health care market, it's virtually impossible to keep health care prices from rising. That's where we're at now.

As a "thought experiment", imagine if we tried to deal with groceries the same we we're trying to deal with health care. Let's say employers started giving employees "food cards" as a benefit. These food cards would buy you whatever groceries you want or need. Once a majority of grocery shoppers were using these cards, what do you think would happen to grocery prices? Of course, they'd spiral out of control. It would get to the point where people without the cards could no longer afford groceries. And then some aspiring politician would insist that only the government can feed us.

The bottom line is, we need less health insurance, not more. We should only be insuring against unexpected calamities, and should pay for routine health care out of pocket. That will restore market balance and provide the needed incentive for lower cost health care.

Or we throw up our hands, and succumb to the government's "solution". We give in to the pitch that ordinary people simply can't afford ordinary health care, and the only way you can keep from dying in an alley somewhere is to put politicians in charge.

"Doctor Trump will see you now ..."

I have a very big problem with government having anything to do with most things in life. They can usually f**k things up to the point it is worse than anyone that was trying to screw it up.
That does not mean I am in favor of universal healthcare.

 

[EMH]

I definitely do not understand the idea that people want me to help pay for their health care.
I have not been sick in over 35 years. The only time I see a doctor is for a yearly physical. I eat well and exercise regularly. Perhaps before I die that may or may not change.
But I really would like someone to explain why I need to help pay the medical costs of someone who runs to the doctor every time they get a sniffle or the costs of someone that sits on the couch and eats constantly until they are morbidly obese. Or someone that eats so much fast food that their arteries are clogged to the point they are a walking time bomb. They made the decision to not take care of themselves

Spot on libertarian conservative.

Love it...


Radical concept,

YOU are in charge of YOU

If YOU do not live a HEALTHY LIFESTYLE, those who do are not obligated to pay your healthcare bills....

 

[debbiedowner]

Physicians embrace cash-based payment models

"Discover the growing trend of cash-only and direct primary care models among physicians, driven by declining reimbursement rates and administrative burdens. Is

www.beckershospitalreview.com

Amid shrinking reimbursement rates and growing frustrations with administrative burdens, more physicians are turning to cash-only or direct primary care models.

"We're seeing a huge evolution of cash-based models because it's a more predictable revenue stream that can be quite lucrative," Sam Patel, MD, founder of medical consulting firm Astra Culture, told Medscape in a Dec. 23 report.

There is little data to offer firm estimates on the prevalence of direct pay models, though a Medscape survey from 2020 suggests they are used by less than 20% of clinicians.

In these arrangements, patients typically pay an annual or monthly fee for access to a set menu of care services. This differs from concierge medicine, where practices still bill insurers for certain services and use the membership fees to enhance access and convenience.

Medical school debt, burdensome paperwork and declining reimbursement are the primary factors driving more physicians to consider cash-based models, according to the report. The option can be appealing for patients frustrated with long wait times to secure an appointment.

"Patients want direct access to care, and they want price transparency," Dr. Patel said. "For some, paying a doctor $300 for an appointment – and being able to secure one within a day – is well worth it."

However, the rise of these models raises questions about affordability and equity. While some patients may value the convenience, others may face barriers to care, exacerbating disparities for those unable to afford out-of-pocket costs.

 

[dblack]

Physicians embrace cash-based payment models

"Discover the growing trend of cash-only and direct primary care models among physicians, driven by declining reimbursement rates and administrative burdens. Is

www.beckershospitalreview.com

Amid shrinking reimbursement rates and growing frustrations with administrative burdens, more physicians are turning to cash-only or direct primary care models.

In the early 2000s my employer offered high deductible insurance paired with an HSA (this was before ACA did away with them). It meant that most of my visits to the doctor involved paying cash - writing a check from my HSA. I was surprised that many of my doctor's offered a discount for cash payments. They got to avoid fucking with the insurance companies so they were happy to oblige.

Paying for our own health care, as much as possible, is exactly what needs to happen

 

[debbiedowner]

In the early 2000s my employer offered high deductible insurance paired with an HSA (this was before ACA did away with them). It meant that most of my visits to the doctor involved paying cash - writing a check from my HSA. I was surprised that many of my doctor's offered a discount for cash payments. They got to avoid fucking with the insurance companies so they were happy to oblige.

Paying for our own health care, as much as possible, is exactly what needs to happen

There are still HSA's, very few but they are there.

 

[dblack]

There are still HSA's, very few but they are there.

Sure. HSAs are still a thing, but the high deductible policies were labeled "junk" policies and ACA piled on with requirements that made them cover all kinds of non-catastrophic issues - "wellness visits" and the like. Such that the catastrophic policies now cost nearly as much as full coverage, so the whole thing is pointless.

 

[Greenbeard]

In the early 2000s my employer offered high deductible insurance paired with an HSA (this was before ACA did away with them).

I swear you people live in outer space.

 

[dblack]

I swear you people live in outer space.

Your handlers provided you with very snazzy chart. It has nothing to do with the point I made, but it's colorful, and eye-catching.

 

[cnm]

Huh?
You sayin' I should try accessing our welfare system or the medical services it provides?

I worked private sector the majority of my life, now retired, so have that Medicare thing. Which only Part A is provided via my employment taxes. Parts B, C, & D I have to shop private insurance supplements for. I don't qualify to collect 'welfare'.

I know most Kiwis are a bit cocky, but you are toppin' out there.

So it's okay to access but only if you're older than a certain age? Must suck to not qualify.

 

[cnm]

Because when everything goes through single payer the MDs have limited to no negotiation power

How to say one knows nothing without actually saying one knows nothing.

 

[cnm]

Spot on libertarian conservative.

The Carolinas are full of them asking where is the govt support.

 

[Stryder50]

So it's okay to access but only if you're older than a certain age? Must suck to not qualify.

Not at all what I said, but your delusions have been clear for some time now.
Must suck to be stupid and unable to comprehend the King's English.

 

[SweetSue92]

Libs want UH. Bernie Sanders is a champion of it but there are many who agree with the Socialist.

The argument is that it works in Europe.

Now in Europe education is free. It’s not in the US. A MD will not begin to make real money til they have gone through 4 yrs of undergrad, 3 yrs of med school and a 4 yr residency. That’s expensive and usually the lie between $400-600k in debt. Funny, I have a client who is an MD from India. In India he said you go straight to med school. No undergrad requirement. Makes sense. But I digress. Let’s say the person goes through the undergrad, med school and residency and soon becomes a renowned surgeon like Dr. James Andrews was.

Let’s say he gets paid $4mil per year. Now comes UH. How much does that doctor make now? How does UH reward our best doctors?

If I am a plumber I may charge what I want. Why can’t I do that as a doctor?

Things liberals never think about, but should.

 

[San Souci]

If you centralize healthcare the government will control who can earn it. You will get closer to a police state than you imagined.

Yep. And almost all Gov't programs fail. The "New Deal" and the "Great Society" failed miserably. Ronald Reagan once said "Lyndon Johnson declared War on Poverty. Poverty Won".

 

[shockedcanadian]

Yep. And almost all Gov't programs fail. The "New Deal" and the "Great Society" failed miserably. Ronald Reagan once said "Lyndon Johnson declared War on Poverty. Poverty Won".

The world is.a sad world at times. Everyone exploiting one another, government seemingly caring less and less about efficiency and the prosperity of their citizens. It is far worse in Canada, I am a prime example unfortunately but I know others who have had issues though not as extreme. As.I've said for some times, Americans dont appreciate how farmwe.have fallen due to the centralized weapo ization of government. I've reached out to your nation with plenty of details unfortunately. Your State Department and its arms are well aware I'm sure.

 

[cnm]

Not at all what I said

Yeah you did. Medicare is age based as far as I know.

 

[Stryder50]

Yeah you did. Medicare is age based as far as I know.

My post you were unable to understand was about Welfare and Medicare.
I made clear distinctions on both.
You are either too intoxicated or too stupid to read and understand.
BTW, Medicare also had Medicaid added which isn't age based.

 

[shockedcanadian]

I have a very big problem with government having anything to do with most things in life. They can usually f**k things up to the point it is worse than anyone that was trying to screw it up.
That does not mean I am in favor of universal healthcare.

When it comes to healthcare they can do FAR worse than just mess it up, they can deny you or even engage in nefarious discussions with doctors, similar to what occured in the former Eastern Bloc. I've had my blood go missing (imagine that) and my concerns undermined for a long time, even as I still co tiually wake.up and have the nerve, skin crawling and lack of energy and focus. The decline has been real and only for some days do I have spurts of feeling normal with sleep and other symptoms.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

How to say one knows nothing without actually saying one knows nothing.

Doesn’t know anything? And your little insult means nothing.