Unions in the US

[DaGoose]

That 1428 workersx2000.00 = are paid $2,856,000.00 a day in benefits at just one plant. LMAO!! Who negotiated that contract for GM??

The 2000 is per car not per worker, dumbass.
And remember we're just talking legacy costs, i.e. retirement, etc... not regular wages.

Apparently he was taught math by a union teacher.

My wife is a union teacher and she's damned good at it.

 

[Kat]

I must admit that I always get such a kick out of people who post how much they hate unions yet know nothing about them. Reading through these posts there is so much mis-information being spread it's unbelievable.

I have worked in a non-union setting (coal mine) and the last 30 years in a union setting (power plant). I would never go back to a non-union job if I could help it.

Well, I know of what I speak. My husband was in a union for years, and it SUCKED.
All they were good for was taking dues...insisting the members go on strike (longest one was almost a year - yeah THAT was fun), then insisting members better take what was initially offered, and handing out cheese.
Oh, all that and coming to the aid of a person that was too lazy to work...

My husband works in the same industry now, non union...and it is AWESOME!

 

[asterism]

I detect Shintao might be a union hack? I too have had a couple bad experiences with union workers...Out of the couple times I've ever dealt with them personally...Libs complain about a couple instances of violence in thousands of tea Party rallies, but ignore the fact that there is violence in every 2-3 union rallies...There should be a wage cap on union members...minimum wage + 20%...their original intent was to protect the most vulnerable workers...Fat ass plumbers, electicians, and auto workers, who make $35 an hour have destroyed the market for future fat ass plumbers, electricians, and auto workers.

Glew must be a scab corporate Hack? Yes, a proud Union member here.

Which?

 

[DaGoose]

I must admit that I always get such a kick out of people who post how much they hate unions yet know nothing about them. Reading through these posts there is so much mis-information being spread it's unbelievable.

I have worked in a non-union setting (coal mine) and the last 30 years in a union setting (power plant). I would never go back to a non-union job if I could help it.

Well, I know of what I speak. My husband was in a union for years, and it SUCKED.
All they were good for was taking dues...insisting the members go on strike (longest one was almost a year - yeah THAT was fun), then insisting members better take what was initially offered, and handing out cheese.
Oh, all that and coming to the aid of a person that was too lazy to work...

My husband works in the same industry now, non union...and it is AWESOME!

I'm not going to blow smoke and say everything about unions is wonderful. But I also have never seen a strike that was not supported by a majority of the membership. These things are voted on.

 

[Kat]

I must admit that I always get such a kick out of people who post how much they hate unions yet know nothing about them. Reading through these posts there is so much mis-information being spread it's unbelievable.

I have worked in a non-union setting (coal mine) and the last 30 years in a union setting (power plant). I would never go back to a non-union job if I could help it.

Well, I know of what I speak. My husband was in a union for years, and it SUCKED.
All they were good for was taking dues...insisting the members go on strike (longest one was almost a year - yeah THAT was fun), then insisting members better take what was initially offered, and handing out cheese.
Oh, all that and coming to the aid of a person that was too lazy to work...

My husband works in the same industry now, non union...and it is AWESOME!

I'm not going to blow smoke and say everything about unions is wonderful. But I also have never seen a strike that was not supported by a majority of the membership. These things are voted on.

I do agree with you there. But the officials and the negotiating committee push for it. Workers put their trust in the wrong people IMO.
And no, my husband never voted to strike. He was smart enough to realize that you lose money on a strike that you never get back.

 

[Bleeding Heart]

I must admit that I always get such a kick out of people who post how much they hate unions yet know nothing about them. Reading through these posts there is so much mis-information being spread it's unbelievable.

I have worked in a non-union setting (coal mine) and the last 30 years in a union setting (power plant). I would never go back to a non-union job if I could help it.

I couldn't agree more. There are less then 9% of our private sector citizens employed by Union companies these days. Less then we had in 1932. The reason is largley because of ignorance. Too many people, especially our more conservative thinking individuals, believe the fat cat CEO's when they cry about not being able to make money.

90% of our labor laws came from Unions. The same holds true for our safety regulations. But, if a CEO with a multi-million dollar salary complains, it's not the high paid executives, the office workers, or the cost of goods and supplies that gets cut ... it's the guy trying to get by and support his family that has the figure pointed at him.

Unions have gotten a bad rap and I hope they can gain more support. Funny, that's not one of the options in the OP's questions.

 

[DaGoose]

Well, I know of what I speak. My husband was in a union for years, and it SUCKED.
All they were good for was taking dues...insisting the members go on strike (longest one was almost a year - yeah THAT was fun), then insisting members better take what was initially offered, and handing out cheese.
Oh, all that and coming to the aid of a person that was too lazy to work...

My husband works in the same industry now, non union...and it is AWESOME!

I'm not going to blow smoke and say everything about unions is wonderful. But I also have never seen a strike that was not supported by a majority of the membership. These things are voted on.

I do agree with you there. But the officials and the negotiating committee push for it. Workers put their trust in the wrong people IMO.
And no, my husband never voted to strike. He was smart enough to realize that you lose money on a strike that you never get back.

Nobody wins in a strike. But what you hope for is to limit your losses. When Caterpillar employees went on strike several years ago they lost. Now jobs that used to pay $20 per hour full time with benefits are now all part time at $14 per hour with no benefits. But guess what? Caterpillar continues to make record profits every year and the CEO is among the highest paid in the world.

All of this was done on the backs of the workers.

 

[DaGoose]

I must admit that I always get such a kick out of people who post how much they hate unions yet know nothing about them. Reading through these posts there is so much mis-information being spread it's unbelievable.

I have worked in a non-union setting (coal mine) and the last 30 years in a union setting (power plant). I would never go back to a non-union job if I could help it.

I couldn't agree more. There are less then 9% of our private sector citizens employed by Union companies these days. Less then we had in 1932. The reason is largley because of ignorance. Too many people, especially our more conservative thinking individuals, believe the fat cat CEO's when they cry about not being able to make money.

90% of our labor laws came from Unions. The same holds true for our safety regulations. But, if a CEO with a multi-million dollar salary complains, it's not the high paid executives, the office workers, or the cost of goods and supplies that gets cut ... it's the guy trying to get by and support his family that has the figure pointed at him.

Unions have gotten a bad rap and I hope they can gain more support. Funny, that's not one of the options in the OP's questions.

Ya....all I could select was keep on fighting.

 

[Kat]

I'm not going to blow smoke and say everything about unions is wonderful. But I also have never seen a strike that was not supported by a majority of the membership. These things are voted on.

I do agree with you there. But the officials and the negotiating committee push for it. Workers put their trust in the wrong people IMO.
And no, my husband never voted to strike. He was smart enough to realize that you lose money on a strike that you never get back.

Nobody wins in a strike. But what you hope for is to limit your losses. When Caterpillar employees went on strike several years ago they lost. Now jobs that used to pay $20 per hour full time with benefits are now all part time at $14 per hour with no benefits. But guess what? Caterpillar continues to make record profits every year and the CEO is among the highest paid in the world.

All of this was done on the backs of the workers.

No offense intended but this is all bouncing off me. You are a big union guy. I am very anti-union..strictly from my own experience. They suck. Period. They protect no one except the lazy man/woman that won't work.

 

[MikeK]

[...]

In my area, there are two major chain grocery stores. One is union, one is not. They have nearly identical benefit packages for their workers. Identical pay scales. Only difference is that the Union members see more money taken out of their check for union dues than the non-union store. For no extra benefits than the non-union store.

If Store A is a union shop and store B is not you may rest assured that Store B's employees would not enjoy their level of benefits if Store A's union shop didn't set the bar. Store B is keeping pace because it doesn't want the union coming in.

Yeah, thats a winner for the workers. Lets take more money away from those who can least afford to lose it.

If you haven't already seen the following movies I respectfully suggest that you rent them because they tell an important tale:

Harlan County USA

Norma Rae

The Molly McGuires

On The Waterfront

Matewan

Hoffa

You can also Google up the story of the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire.

All of the above will support my assertion that the union movement alone is the reason why there is a middle class in America. And unless you've been born into wealth and privilege it is virtually certain that your working conditions and your life in general would be far more difficult and unpleasant were it not for the overall effectiveness of the unions.

While there is no question that some unions have fallen under the control of greedy, unethical, exploitive and in some cases incompetent leadership and need to be regulated, don't make the mistake of thinking the elimination of unions would be anything less than a disaster for the American working class.

 

[Sallow]

The 2000 is per car not per worker, dumbass.
And remember we're just talking legacy costs, i.e. retirement, etc... not regular wages.

Apparently he was taught math by a union teacher.

My wife is a union teacher and she's damned good at it.

So is my mom.

Go union!

 

[MikeK]

The threat of unionization is the only thing that keeps the essential and necessary symbiotic relationship between labor and management in balance.

Considering the low number of workers that are unionized, I'd have to say your statement is incorrect. I've worked in two manufacturing facilities in two different states where an attempt was made to bring unions in. Both attempts failed miserably because the workers didn't want them there.

And why do you suppose that is? Because the employer is just naturally generous and benevolent? Or do you think it's because the employer is aware that the union movement is still alive and doesn't want to deal with it.

 

[Annie]

Considering who's paying their salaries, union officials are justly compensated? They often draw multiple salaries to make hundreds of thousands per year.

Unions? Top-Heavy Salaries a Drag on Organizing | Labor Notes

Source: OLMS

This from 2002, shows just how much more 'executives' make than workers:

Laborer_LIUNA President, Terry O'Sullivan, Highest Salaried Union Official In The Building Trades-$250,000

Presidents of the 15 construction trades unions may not be earning the same salaries as corporate executives. But they still enjoy many perks that add a sizable amount to their compensation packages, as revealed by a new U.S. Labor Dept. electronic posting of long-required union financial details...

WELL PAID? Michael Ketner, president of Michael Ketner and Associates Inc., a construction compensation consulting firm in Pittsburgh, says union president salaries "are a fraction" of what construction company executives earn. A construction company executive presiding over a staff of 10,000 employees would be likely to earn between $400,000 and $700,000, he claims.

The highest compensation total listed for a building trades' president in the Labor Dept. database‚ including allowances and disbursements for official and unofficial business, was $374,400 in 2000 for Michael Sullivan, president of the sheet metal workers' union. "My sense is that these union presidents have got a bunch of outside-the-umbrella perks" that are tax free, adds Ketner. "They could be getting allowances for housing. They may get free air travel for personal use. Under these circumstances, you'd gladly settle for a meager wage," he says.

Several of the union leaders' overall compensation jumps significantly when allowances, disbursements and "other" expenses are factored in. For 2000, Terence M. O'Sullivan, general president of the laborers' union, earned an annual salary of $250,000, ranking him at the top of the 15 trades. But when other perks are added, the sheet metal workers' Sullivan takes the lead despite his base salary of $236,605. O'Sullivan slips to second overall with a total package of $357,710.

Roofers' union President Earl Kruse is at the bottom of the salary pool with annual wages of $142,721. But with allowances and disbursements, his compensation package jumps to eighth in the ranking, totaling $245,718.

The president of the AFL-CIO's Building and Construction Trades Dept., Edward C. Sullivan, earns a salary of $248,762. His allowances total $18,250 and disbursements for official business are $45,386, for a total of $312,398. Sullivan's successor as head of the elevator constructors' union takes home $182,290 in salary and $29,069 for disbursements for official business, for a total compensation of $211,359.

Each of the presidents receives additional allowances for his service as a BCTD "vice president." For the year ending June 30, 2001, those amounts range from $10,100 for former ironworkers' President Jake West and operating engineers' union chief Frank Hanley, to $3,500 to Michael Monroe, former president of the painters' union...

 

[Annie]

many teachers believe that it's the two most powerful education unions that prevent real reform of schools.

Teachers Union Facts

 

[Political Junky]

Cons want to go back to working 7 days and holidays. Well, for the little people, anyway.

 

[MikeK]

I used to think Unions where a great thing, but then my dad (factory worker/farmer) told me about the union that tried to get him several years ago. They basically told him, if he didn't join their union, they'd get him fired. Say the least, my dad refused, and no he didn't get fired, but he told me he lost all respect for unions. He said they would have deducted so much per year for membership and he'd have had to go to meetings and such.

There indeed were some unions that weren't worth belonging to but that doesn't speak for them all. Were it not for unions there would be no middle class.

I love the movie Hoffa, even though I have heard that it was accurate and then terribly not accurate, it made me think, brotherhood in a common cause is a great thing, and it always will be, but when you decide to punish the people who don't want with you, well, then your infringing other people's rights to get your own way.

The movie, Hoffa, was quite accurate. The rise and disappearance of Jimmy Hoffa is well documented and the movie didn't deviate except in the most insignificant ways from any of the many readily available histories of the Teamsters Union.

Hoffa created the union. He dealt with corporate goons by affiliating with the mafia and the early days of the Teamsters were marked by violent encounters. He was sent to prison when one of his close associates informed on him. His disappearance went down in pretty much the way it was portrayed in the movie.

The bottom line is the Teamsters Union made it possible for millions of American truck drivers to earn decent livings and retire with dignity. My son-in-law works for UPS. He owns a very nice home on Staten Island, NY. My daughter and my two granddaughters want for nothing. He works hard and puts in a lot of overtime but he is paid very well -- thanks to Jimmy Hoffa.

 

[shintao]

I'm not going to blow smoke and say everything about unions is wonderful. But I also have never seen a strike that was not supported by a majority of the membership. These things are voted on.

I do agree with you there. But the officials and the negotiating committee push for it. Workers put their trust in the wrong people IMO.
And no, my husband never voted to strike. He was smart enough to realize that you lose money on a strike that you never get back.

Nobody wins in a strike. But what you hope for is to limit your losses. When Caterpillar employees went on strike several years ago they lost. Now jobs that used to pay $20 per hour full time with benefits are now all part time at $14 per hour with no benefits. But guess what? Caterpillar continues to make record profits every year and the CEO is among the highest paid in the world.

All of this was done on the backs of the workers.

Yeah, strikes are bad news. It is much eaiser these days to just hire a hit man and kill off the top tier of executives. Talk about change. The ol Cat would be paying $40, an hour and a full range of benefits. LOL!!

 

[shintao]

many teachers believe that it's the two most powerful education unions that prevent real reform of schools.

Teachers Union Facts

So they don't know huh? Tsk!

 

[JBeukema]

There are less then 9% of our private sector citizens employed by Union companies these days. Less then we had in 1932. The reason is largley because of ignorance.

I disagree.

Many of the common problems and abuses that necessitated the unions of old are now rare and readily handled through government agencies.

The unions were very successful and have largely rendered themselves obsolete. That's a testament to their success, much like a doctor curing his patient and no longer being needed.

 

[JBeukema]

many teachers believe that it's the two most powerful education unions that prevent real reform of schools.

Teachers Union Facts

quick question:

why does that come up yellow in Web of Trust?