Unions in the US

[Cain]

I simply meant to show my discouragement of forceful joinings.

2/3 states I've lived in were right-to-work states. The third was California, where was no work anyway.


I support right-to-work laws. Forced membership in a union and union-breaking are two sides of the same coin

Well, I am just against forced membership and that is all. So far as I know, Tennessee doesn't force anywhere, but the Unions themselves do push their membership and that is natural to want more money from memberships I suppose.

I have only lived in one state so I cannot speak for the right-to-work-states. The only thing I know about Tennessee is that you can be fired without cause, and I have had some people I know had that happen to them, although their was usually a under-lying cause anyways.

 

[daveman]

That's not the claim. The claim is that unions cost the car buyer 2 grand per car.

And that claim has been substantiated.

1) Have any car manufacturers outsourced to places where the unions have no presence?

You mean like Toyota's Kentucky plant?

2)If so, do the cars made there cost $2,000 less? If no, then your argument falls apart as all the unions have done is decrease the profit margin, rather than drive up the cost to the customer

Say, this is interesting:

First and foremost, the Toyota Camry is (somewhat ironically) still at the top of the American Made Index. But second place is a bit of a surprise, with the Honda Accord making a debut appearance in the runner-up position. Notably, it takes the place of the Ford F-150, which falls off the list entirely.

Why the sudden change? It seems the Accord now boasts a 75-percent American parts percentage (which is the minimum allowable to make this list) as it is now being assembled in two separate plants based in the United States. Ford's F-150, however, saw its American parts percentage fall from 80 percent down to just 55 percent – a scenario Ford calls "pretty common."​

How about that: A "foreign" made vehicle has more domestic parts than a "domestic" vehicle.

Do you wonder why Ford is buying more overseas parts? Could it be they don't want to deal with inflated union costs?

Also of note:

Toyota's announcement that it will resume construction of a car factory in Mississippi should have been a much-needed piece of good news for the automaker on Thursday.
Instead, it drew fire from America's largest auto union, which accused Toyota of shifting production from a union plant to a nonunion facility.
The company, looking to win back some goodwill after a recall crisis bruised its reputation, promised to hire 2,000 workers at its nearly complete factory in Blue Spring, Mississippi, and start producing Corolla sedans by the end of next year.​

When was the last time one of the Big 3 opened a new plant?

 

[boedicca]

C - with a footnote that Public Employee Unions are an oxymoron.

 

[daveman]

I am from CA, show me where that $41. an hour is hidiing. And that isn't close (328. vs. 2000.) to what the article cited. Try reality...............LOL!

If you'd read the article I linked, you wouldn't look so silly right now.

Let’s start with the numbers. The $73-an-hour figure comes from the car companies themselves. As part of their public relations strategy during labor negotiations, the companies put out various charts and reports explaining what they paid their workers. Wall Street analysts have done similar calculations.

The calculations show, accurately enough, that for every hour a unionized worker puts in, one of the Big Three really does spend about $73 on compensation. So the number isn’t made up. But it is the combination of three very different categories.

The first category is simply cash payments, which is what many people imagine when they hear the word “compensation.” It includes wages, overtime and vacation pay, and comes to about $40 an hour. (The numbers vary a bit by company and year. That’s why $73 is sometimes $70 or $77.)

The second category is fringe benefits, like health insurance and pensions. These benefits have real value, even if they don’t show up on a weekly paycheck. At the Big Three, the benefits amount to $15 an hour or so.

Add the two together, and you get the true hourly compensation of Detroit’s unionized work force: roughly $55 an hour. It’s a little more than twice as much as the typical American worker makes, benefits included. The more relevant comparison, though, is probably to Honda’s or Toyota’s (nonunionized) workers. They make in the neighborhood of $45 an hour, and most of the gap stems from their less generous benefits.

The third category is the cost of benefits for retirees. These are essentially fixed costs that have no relation to how many vehicles the companies make. But they are a real cost, so the companies add them into the mix — dividing those costs by the total hours of the current work force, to get a figure of $15 or so — and end up at roughly $70 an hour.​

Here is a reality figure for you.

The cost of providing health care adds from $1,100 to $1,500 to the cost of each of the 4.65 million vehicles GM sold last year.

USATODAY.com - Ailing GM looks to scale back generous health benefits

"Deflector shields!"

 

[JBeukema]

I simply meant to show my discouragement of forceful joinings.

2/3 states I've lived in were right-to-work states. The third was California, where was no work anyway.


I support right-to-work laws. Forced membership in a union and union-breaking are two sides of the same coin

Well, I am just against forced membership and that is all. So far as I know, Tennessee doesn't force anywhere, but the Unions themselves do push their membership and that is natural to want more money from memberships I suppose.

http://www.nrtw.org/c/tnrtwlaw.htm

I have only lived in one state so I cannot speak for the right-to-work-states.

You live in one

§ 50-1-201. Denial of employment because of affiliation or nonaffiliation with labor union.
It is unlawful for any person, firm, corporation or association of any kind to deny or attempt to deny employment to any person by reason of such person's membership in, affiliation with, resignation from, or refusal to join or affiliate with any labor union or employee organization of any kind. (Enacted 1947.)
§ 50-1-202. Contracting for exclusion from employment because of affiliation or nonaffiliation with labor union.
It is unlawful for any person, firm, corporation or association of any kind to enter into any contract, combination or agreement, written or oral, providing for exclusion from employment of any person because of membership in, affiliation with, resignation from, or refusal to join or affiliate with any labor union or employee organization of any kind. (Enacted 1947.)
§ 50-1-203. Exclusion from employment for payment of or failure to pay union dues.
It is unlawful for any person, firm, corporation or association of any kind to exclude from employment any person by reason of such person's payment of or failure to pay dues, fees, assessments, or other charges to any labor union or employee organization of any kind. (Enacted 1947.)
§ 50-1-204. Penalty.
(a) Any person, firm, corporation, or association of any kind violating any of the provisions of this part commits a Class A misdemeanor.
(b) Each day that any person, firm, corporation or association of any kind remains in violation of any of the provisions of this part is deemed to be a separate and distinct offense, punishable in accordance with the provisions of this section. (Enacted 1947.)





ibid

The only thing I know about Tennessee is that you can be fired without cause,

That's called 'at-will employment'. Same where I live.

 

[shintao]

And the Statist government pukes you so proudly hail sure as Hell saw to that didn't they?

Sorry you lose. Go play elsewhere.

Oh, please fool, do tell us how well capitalism is favoring the American worker beat at his own game. Then try to blame it on Americas 13% that are Union workers!! LMAO!!!! You are a bigger fool than I thought.................

I think this is an admission that socialists won the battle. That it, Mr. Submissive?? LMAO!!

The noose just gets tighter around your neck...continue will you? Promise?

You lose scabby................run along and play in traffic.

 

[RadiomanATL]

If you are unable to imagine industries that do not compete with others due to geographic restrictions, I'm sorry.

Also, you never asked.

From what I understand of your job, couldn't it be done (in theory) be done by anyone anywhere in the world with a computer and a good enough internet connection?

Thats one of my jobs, and not the one I'm talking about.

It's one of the reasons I decided to go part-time in the radio industry. It's no theory, it's a reality, and has been for nearly a decade. I dropped down to part time so as to not put all of my income into one basket. A basket that could be yanked from me pretty much at any time.

I will say this though about syndication:

Every music based station I have worked for or heard of that has syndicated (from out of town) key dayparts have never been at the top of the ratings while syndicating

I almost said successful, but that would depend on how you define success. They are able to make money and have listeners, but none of them ever went to the top with syndication in key dayparts.

 

[The T]

Oh, please fool, do tell us how well capitalism is favoring the American worker beat at his own game. Then try to blame it on Americas 13% that are Union workers!! LMAO!!!! You are a bigger fool than I thought.................

I think this is an admission that socialists won the battle. That it, Mr. Submissive?? LMAO!!

The noose just gets tighter around your neck...continue will you? Promise?

You lose scabby................run along and play in traffic.

Translation: "I lost my arguement in my own thread..."

 

[JBeukema]

The noose just gets tighter around your neck...continue will you? Promise?

You lose scabby................run along and play in traffic.

Translation: "I lost my arguement in my own thread..."

You're thinking of the other thread

 

[Cain]

2/3 states I've lived in were right-to-work states. The third was California, where was no work anyway.


I support right-to-work laws. Forced membership in a union and union-breaking are two sides of the same coin

Well, I am just against forced membership and that is all. So far as I know, Tennessee doesn't force anywhere, but the Unions themselves do push their membership and that is natural to want more money from memberships I suppose.

Right to Work States: Tennessee | National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation

I have only lived in one state so I cannot speak for the right-to-work-states.

You live in one

§ 50-1-201. Denial of employment because of affiliation or nonaffiliation with labor union.
It is unlawful for any person, firm, corporation or association of any kind to deny or attempt to deny employment to any person by reason of such person's membership in, affiliation with, resignation from, or refusal to join or affiliate with any labor union or employee organization of any kind. (Enacted 1947.)
§ 50-1-202. Contracting for exclusion from employment because of affiliation or nonaffiliation with labor union.
It is unlawful for any person, firm, corporation or association of any kind to enter into any contract, combination or agreement, written or oral, providing for exclusion from employment of any person because of membership in, affiliation with, resignation from, or refusal to join or affiliate with any labor union or employee organization of any kind. (Enacted 1947.)
§ 50-1-203. Exclusion from employment for payment of or failure to pay union dues.
It is unlawful for any person, firm, corporation or association of any kind to exclude from employment any person by reason of such person's payment of or failure to pay dues, fees, assessments, or other charges to any labor union or employee organization of any kind. (Enacted 1947.)
§ 50-1-204. Penalty.
(a) Any person, firm, corporation, or association of any kind violating any of the provisions of this part commits a Class A misdemeanor.
(b) Each day that any person, firm, corporation or association of any kind remains in violation of any of the provisions of this part is deemed to be a separate and distinct offense, punishable in accordance with the provisions of this section. (Enacted 1947.)





ibid

The only thing I know about Tennessee is that you can be fired without cause,

That's called 'at-will employment'. Same where I live.

haha. You got me, I do live in one, sorry for my mis-type. I meant, I do not have the experience of living in multiple states such as you, sorry for the mis-wording.

I am glad it is against the law, but it still happens, and that doesn't mean people can't make it rough for you not to join a union. I am not trying to say Unions are evil, I am just saying that when they try to force memberships they have lost their purpose, and are wrong in hurting people's rights.

What is your opinion of 'at-will employment'?

 

[shintao]

The noose just gets tighter around your neck...continue will you? Promise?

You lose scabby................run along and play in traffic.

Translation: "I lost my arguement in my own thread..."

Translation, I didn't read the thread, so I am a dumbass just like Shintao said I was, or I would have known Shintao didn't start the thread.................LMAO!!! You just keep on Losing Loser.........LMAO!!!

 

[The T]

You lose scabby................run along and play in traffic.

Translation: "I lost my arguement in my own thread..."

Translation, I didn't read the thread, so i am a dumbass just like Shintao said I was, or I would have known Shintao didn't start the thread.................LMAO!!! You just keep on Losing Loser.........LMAO!!!

Press on loser.

 

[shintao]

You lose scabby................run along and play in traffic.

Translation: "I lost my arguement in my own thread..."

You're thinking of the other thread

Nice clue to the clueless...............

 

[JBeukema]

What is your opinion of 'at-will employment'?

It enables employers to get rid of troublesome employees even if they can't prove misconduct. For instance, if they suspect but can't prove theft or if the worker is simply not any good. I was surprised to learn such laws exist because it seems to me that it should go without saying that i hired you to do a job and I can tell you you're fired if I'm not satisfied with your work.

I don't understand why this even needs to be written into law. If employment's not at-will, what the hell is it?

 

[JBeukema]

You lose scabby................run along and play in traffic.

Translation: "I lost my arguement in my own thread..."

Translation, I didn't read the thread, so I am a dumbass just like Shintao said I was, or I would have known Shintao didn't start the thread.................LMAO!!! You just keep on Losing Loser.........LMAO!!!

Similar discussions with many of the same posters are taking place in two threads. Stop being a sad troll.

 

[shintao]

Translation: "I lost my arguement in my own thread..."

Translation, I didn't read the thread, so I am a dumbass just like Shintao said I was, or I would have known Shintao didn't start the thread.................LMAO!!! You just keep on Losing Loser.........LMAO!!!

Similar discussions with many of the same posters are taking place in two threads. Stop being a sad troll.

Sad? Troll? LMAO!!! Take a walk through this thread deary, and see who is the troll?? I never attack a person unless they attack me first, so keep that in mind, OK?

And by the way, I just started another Union thread, so now we have three. Don't want anyone getting confused.

 

[hortysir]

I mean, be logical man, the article is a lie.......

Provide evidence to the contrary or be put on *ignore*

 

[hortysir]

That 1428 workersx2000.00 = are paid $2,856,000.00 a day in benefits at just one plant. LMAO!! Who negotiated that contract for GM??

The 2000 is per car not per worker, dumbass.
And remember we're just talking legacy costs, i.e. retirement, etc... not regular wages.

 

[daveman]

That 1428 workersx2000.00 = are paid $2,856,000.00 a day in benefits at just one plant. LMAO!! Who negotiated that contract for GM??

The 2000 is per car not per worker, dumbass.
And remember we're just talking legacy costs, i.e. retirement, etc... not regular wages.

Apparently he was taught math by a union teacher.

 

[DaGoose]

I must admit that I always get such a kick out of people who post how much they hate unions yet know nothing about them. Reading through these posts there is so much mis-information being spread it's unbelievable.

I have worked in a non-union setting (coal mine) and the last 30 years in a union setting (power plant). I would never go back to a non-union job if I could help it.