Union Boss salaries- They have a lot in common with the people they represent

[JoeB131]

Joe is typical of the union mentality: give me mine, everyone else can get screwed.

Protectionism makes for inefficient outmoded industries that cannot compete and demand more and more gov't guarantees to stay in business. This is not theory but fact. It is bad for everyone except the few union employees. And ultimately bad for them too once the gov't decides it's had enough leaching.

Guy, the Japanese have protectionism and stronger unions than we do. So do the Germans.

What they don't have are executives who make 8 figure salaries for failing.

That's a uniquely AMerican thing.

 

[Toro]

That is simply false. The US has used trade protection on a wide range of products, such as steel, softwood lumber, media, defense, etc.

You've had enough of free trade because it hurts you. But to protect you, everybody else would have to pay.

No, I'm against free trade because of this...

That's how much wealth we've been bleeding out since the 1970's.

Free trade hurts nearly everyone.

Mercantilism is a discredited concept in economics.

Sorry.

 

[JoeB131]

That is simply false. The US has used trade protection on a wide range of products, such as steel, softwood lumber, media, defense, etc.

You've had enough of free trade because it hurts you. But to protect you, everybody else would have to pay.

No, I'm against free trade because of this...

That's how much wealth we've been bleeding out since the 1970's.

Free trade hurts nearly everyone.

Mercantilism is a discredited concept in economics.

Sorry.

So says the Wall Street Bloodsucker...

Frankly, I'm just not seeing how running trillions in trade deficits is good for the country.

Just. Not. Seeing. It.

Not to mention completely losing the ability to manufacture certain things at all.

We won WWII because of our ability to manufacture on an unprecedented scale. Today, could we do that, if let's say, China completely lost its mind like Nazi Germany and attempted global domination?

And this is the problem. You aren't even a freakin' American, lecturing to me about what is good for America.

 

[The Rabbi]

Joe is typical of the union mentality: give me mine, everyone else can get screwed.

Protectionism makes for inefficient outmoded industries that cannot compete and demand more and more gov't guarantees to stay in business. This is not theory but fact. It is bad for everyone except the few union employees. And ultimately bad for them too once the gov't decides it's had enough leaching.

Guy, the Japanese have protectionism and stronger unions than we do. So do the Germans.

What they don't have are executives who make 8 figure salaries for failing.

That's a uniquely AMerican thing.

And the Japanese economy has sucked for 2 decades. The German economy woefully underperformed ours for 3 decades.
Those aren't models I want to follow.
Your point?

 

[GHook93]

Union Boss salaries- They have a lot in common with the people they represent






yes the 1%

Michael J. Sullivan, general president of the Sheet Metal Workers’ International Association
Salary: $1,043,023

Robert A. Scardelletti, international president of the Transportation Communications Union
Salary: $748,531

Newton B. Jones, president of the International Brotherhood of Boilermakers
Salary: $607,022

Terence M. O’Sullivan, general president of the Laborers’ International Union of North America
Salary: $589,124

John T. Niccollai, president of the United Food and Commercial Workers Union, Local 464A
Salary: $532,752

Gerald McEntee, international president of the American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees
Salary: $512,369

Compared to CEO salaries, you mean?

The Pay at the Top - The New York Times

Viacom Philippe P. Dauman $84,000,000

Occidental Petroleum Ray R. Irani $76,000,000

Oracle Lawrence J. Ellison $70.1 million.

They make money by selling goods and services! Unions force people to join them and don't make any money, rather they waste money and force jobs to go over seas!

 

[Toro]

No, I'm against free trade because of this...

That's how much wealth we've been bleeding out since the 1970's.

Free trade hurts nearly everyone.

Mercantilism is a discredited concept in economics.

Sorry.

So says the Wall Street Bloodsucker...

Frankly, I'm just not seeing how running trillions in trade deficits is good for the country.

Just. Not. Seeing. It.

Not to mention completely losing the ability to manufacture certain things at all.

We won WWII because of our ability to manufacture on an unprecedented scale. Today, could we do that, if let's say, China completely lost its mind like Nazi Germany and attempted global domination?

And this is the problem. You aren't even a freakin' American, lecturing to me about what is good for America.

The mercantilist era has passed. Modern economists accept Adam Smith’s insight that free trade leads to international specialization of labor and, usually, to greater economic well-being for all nations.

Mercantilism: The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics | Library of Economics and Liberty

Interesting that you bring up WWII, because it was the advent of both world wars that nations decided they had to pursue free trade to increase wealth and avoid such disastrous wars again. Your model - the failed model of inward looking isolationism, mercantilism and autarky - preceded both WWI and WWII. Economists and historians rightly concluded that the movement away from globalization was a contributing factor to both wars, with Smoot-Hawley being the most egregious example, driving the United States further into the Depression. Since WWII, it is the countries which have opened their borders the fastest which have also grown the fastest, and those countries that pursued your failed policies which stagnated or worse. Read up on the economic history of Argentina to find how a rich, prosperous nation turned inward to protect its industries - and labour unions - leading it to second world status. There are several examples like this.

 

[JoeB131]

Joe is typical of the union mentality: give me mine, everyone else can get screwed.

Protectionism makes for inefficient outmoded industries that cannot compete and demand more and more gov't guarantees to stay in business. This is not theory but fact. It is bad for everyone except the few union employees. And ultimately bad for them too once the gov't decides it's had enough leaching.

Guy, the Japanese have protectionism and stronger unions than we do. So do the Germans.

What they don't have are executives who make 8 figure salaries for failing.

That's a uniquely AMerican thing.

And the Japanese economy has sucked for 2 decades. The German economy woefully underperformed ours for 3 decades.
Those aren't models I want to follow.
Your point?

It depends how you define "Underperforming". Unemployment in Japan right now is 5%. Germany has a lower unemployment rate than ours and is carrying the rest of Europe these days.

Now, true, people aren't making obscene money, but for the average person, things are a lot better.

EEEEEEEEEEKKKKKKKK Socialism!!!!!!!!

 

[JakeStarkey]

I am not interested in making wealthy Americans more wealthy.

I am interested in middling and lower class Americans living longer in better health with sufficient purchasing power to have good lives.

We have failed in that since Reagan was elected.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Interesting that you bring up WWII, because it was the advent of both world wars that nations decided they had to pursue free trade to increase wealth and avoid such disastrous wars again. Your model - the failed model of inward looking isolationism, mercantilism and autarky - preceded both WWI and WWII. Economists and historians rightly concluded that the movement away from globalization was a contributing factor to both wars, with Smoot-Hawley being the most egregious example, driving the United States further into the Depression. Since WWII, it is the countries which have opened their borders the fastest which have also grown the fastest, and those countries that pursued your failed policies which stagnated or worse. Read up on the economic history of Argentina to find how a rich, prosperous nation turned inward to protect its industries - and labour unions - leading it to second world status. There are several examples like this.

Again, horseshit.

First, the cause of the world war was that those nations in Europe and Japan persued practices of imperialism. Finding places to conquer to have captive markets and cheap sources of raw material and establishing the First World/THird World divide that still exists today.

The US did well in the aftermath of the war because we avoided that stupidity. We dipped our tow in the imperialism pool in the Philippines, and immediately realized how wrong it was.

Second, Smoot Hawley is often brought up by the Free Traders as a bogeyman, but the world was already in the throws of the great depression . At the time, we were an export economy, and the world was already throwing up tariffs against our exports and turning inward.

The thing is, every time we sign another treaty, two things happen. 1) Our Trade deficit increases and 2) we loose a shitload of jobs.

If Outsourcing were such a good deal, then the Bloodsuckers wouldn't need tax breaks to do it... why we give it to them is the mystery, but that's what happens when you let them buy your government.

"The best government money can buy" isn't good enough anymore.

 

[The Rabbi]

Guy, the Japanese have protectionism and stronger unions than we do. So do the Germans.

What they don't have are executives who make 8 figure salaries for failing.

That's a uniquely AMerican thing.

And the Japanese economy has sucked for 2 decades. The German economy woefully underperformed ours for 3 decades.
Those aren't models I want to follow.
Your point?

It depends how you define "Underperforming". Unemployment in Japan right now is 5%. Germany has a lower unemployment rate than ours and is carrying the rest of Europe these days.

Now, true, people aren't making obscene money, but for the average person, things are a lot better.

EEEEEEEEEEKKKKKKKK Socialism!!!!!!!!

You really are pretty ignorant, aren't you?
GDP growth in both countries has lagged the US for about 30 years. That is underperforming. Unemployment really doesn't have much to do with the picture.

 

[Toro]

[

Interesting that you bring up WWII, because it was the advent of both world wars that nations decided they had to pursue free trade to increase wealth and avoid such disastrous wars again. Your model - the failed model of inward looking isolationism, mercantilism and autarky - preceded both WWI and WWII. Economists and historians rightly concluded that the movement away from globalization was a contributing factor to both wars, with Smoot-Hawley being the most egregious example, driving the United States further into the Depression. Since WWII, it is the countries which have opened their borders the fastest which have also grown the fastest, and those countries that pursued your failed policies which stagnated or worse. Read up on the economic history of Argentina to find how a rich, prosperous nation turned inward to protect its industries - and labour unions - leading it to second world status. There are several examples like this.

Again, horseshit.

First, the cause of the world war was that those nations in Europe and Japan persued practices of imperialism. Finding places to conquer to have captive markets and cheap sources of raw material and establishing the First World/THird World divide that still exists today.

The US did well in the aftermath of the war because we avoided that stupidity. We dipped our tow in the imperialism pool in the Philippines, and immediately realized how wrong it was.

Second, Smoot Hawley is often brought up by the Free Traders as a bogeyman, but the world was already in the throws of the great depression . At the time, we were an export economy, and the world was already throwing up tariffs against our exports and turning inward.

The thing is, every time we sign another treaty, two things happen. 1) Our Trade deficit increases and 2) we loose a shitload of jobs.

If Outsourcing were such a good deal, then the Bloodsuckers wouldn't need tax breaks to do it... why we give it to them is the mystery, but that's what happens when you let them buy your government.

"The best government money can buy" isn't good enough anymore.

Go back and read the history of GATT and the European Coal and Steel Union. Both were responses to the wars. Since WWII, global trade has expanded faster than global GDP, and has done so every decade.

Smoot Hawley was not the cause of the Depression but there isn't an economist alive who thinks SH didn't worsen it. GDP declined 26% during The Great Depression. It is estimated that SH caused 4%-8% of the contraction in the economy.

The idea that a trade deficit is inherently bad is just plain ignorance.

 

[The Rabbi]

[

Interesting that you bring up WWII, because it was the advent of both world wars that nations decided they had to pursue free trade to increase wealth and avoid such disastrous wars again. Your model - the failed model of inward looking isolationism, mercantilism and autarky - preceded both WWI and WWII. Economists and historians rightly concluded that the movement away from globalization was a contributing factor to both wars, with Smoot-Hawley being the most egregious example, driving the United States further into the Depression. Since WWII, it is the countries which have opened their borders the fastest which have also grown the fastest, and those countries that pursued your failed policies which stagnated or worse. Read up on the economic history of Argentina to find how a rich, prosperous nation turned inward to protect its industries - and labour unions - leading it to second world status. There are several examples like this.

Again, horseshit.

First, the cause of the world war was that those nations in Europe and Japan persued practices of imperialism. Finding places to conquer to have captive markets and cheap sources of raw material and establishing the First World/THird World divide that still exists today.

The US did well in the aftermath of the war because we avoided that stupidity. We dipped our tow in the imperialism pool in the Philippines, and immediately realized how wrong it was.

Second, Smoot Hawley is often brought up by the Free Traders as a bogeyman, but the world was already in the throws of the great depression . At the time, we were an export economy, and the world was already throwing up tariffs against our exports and turning inward.

The thing is, every time we sign another treaty, two things happen. 1) Our Trade deficit increases and 2) we loose a shitload of jobs.

If Outsourcing were such a good deal, then the Bloodsuckers wouldn't need tax breaks to do it... why we give it to them is the mystery, but that's what happens when you let them buy your government.

"The best government money can buy" isn't good enough anymore.

I wonder what universe you live in.
Smoot Hawley is one of the big contributors to the GD. This is not even a debate among economists.
So what if our trade deficit increases? If Apple buys chips from Taiwan for $50 and makes an iPad and sells it for $500 are we worse off or better off?

 

[Toro]

And the Japanese economy has sucked for 2 decades. The German economy woefully underperformed ours for 3 decades.
Those aren't models I want to follow.
Your point?

It depends how you define "Underperforming". Unemployment in Japan right now is 5%. Germany has a lower unemployment rate than ours and is carrying the rest of Europe these days.

Now, true, people aren't making obscene money, but for the average person, things are a lot better.

EEEEEEEEEEKKKKKKKK Socialism!!!!!!!!

You really are pretty ignorant, aren't you?
GDP growth in both countries has lagged the US for about 30 years. That is underperforming. Unemployment really doesn't have much to do with the picture.

And Japan is really fucked if they don't do something dramatic soon.

 

[Foxfyre]

Just to keep the record straight re those low unemployment numbers in Germany that JoeB uses to further blugeon American capitalism:

One of the hardest things to get in this world is a truthful, or at least a somewhat realistic, or at the very least a not totally fabricated unemployment number, but every country has its own bureaucratic madness in pursuing obfuscation.
And Germany is no exception. Official unemployment—3,081,706 unemployed and an unemployment rate of 7.3%—dropped to a two-decade low in January, but a recreational dive into the Federal Labor Agency’s monthly report (Monatsbericht) reveals another story. . . .


. . . .Turns out, certain groups of unemployed people are systematically excluded from the official unemployment numbers, though they’re listed in the monthly report and are known—unlike the inscrutable statistical adjustments meted out in the bowels of the US Bureau of Labor Statistics. On second thought, statistical adjustments must also be taking place in Germany because the numbers still don’t add up. These are the excluded groups:
• Participants in “select measures of active labor market policies,” such as obtaining qualifications and professional training: 1,075,004.
• Participants in “activation” and “job integration” programs: 127,742
• Those in “preretirement-like ruling (special status)”: 106,973
• Participants in government-paid job training: 154,648
• People who are called in inimitable German, "1-Euro-Jobbers." They perform tasks that are deigned communally useful, such as clearing snow from city streets in Leipzig: 133,298.
• Participants in language courses, integration courses, and other programs that are funded by agencies other than the Federal Labor Agency: 72,513
• Participants in citizens jobs programs: 21,823
• People who are difficult to find jobs for: 9,533
• Unemployed who are temporarily sick: 68,202
In total: 1,701,534.
Added to the headline number of the officially unemployed (3,081,706), we get a total of 4,783,2

Added to the headline number of the officially unemployed (3,081,706), we get a total of 4,783,240. And it does not include the underemployed who are stuck in part-time jobs but are looking for full-time jobs.

Alas, in January, 5,394,064 people actually received unemployment compensation. So clearly, I must have missed a few categories.

But it gets even worse: People 58 and older are excluded from the official unemployment numbers, even if they're desperately looking for a job. They don’t receive unemployment compensation but, conveniently, pre-retirement compensation. So they don't count for the simple reason that they're too old to count. That’s the German baby-boom generation. They're turning 58 in massive numbers and fall unceremoniously off the unemployment lists. In September 2011, the last month for which official numbers were available: 374,592.

Read more: Germany Really Looks Like It's Fudging Those Unemployment Numbers - Business Insider

 

[JakeStarkey]

Foxfyre, give us the full stats of those on retirement and state insured retirement along with all the other figures and show us how Germany is in worse shape than us

This will be interesting.

 

[JoeB131]

And Japan is really fucked if they don't do something dramatic soon.

But not for the reason you bloodsuckers say.

Japan's problem is that it's demographically aging, and it's not letting in immigrants to make up the difference.

 

[JoeB131]

Just to keep the record straight re those low unemployment numbers in Germany that JoeB uses to further blugeon American capitalism:

One of the hardest things to get in this world is a truthful, or at least a somewhat realistic, or at the very least a not totally fabricated unemployment number, but every country has its own bureaucratic madness in pursuing obfuscation.
And Germany is no exception. Official unemployment—3,081,706 unemployed and an unemployment rate of 7.3%—dropped to a two-decade low in January, but a recreational dive into the Federal Labor Agency’s monthly report (Monatsbericht) reveals another story. . . .

[/url]

YOu mean that they find other methods to take care of people..


Oh my gosh. Actually taking care of people. What a horrible concept.

Don't you peasents know you only exist to make Mitt Romney Rich?

 

[Toro]

And Japan is really fucked if they don't do something dramatic soon.

But not for the reason you bloodsuckers say.

Japan's problem is that it's demographically aging, and it's not letting in immigrants to make up the difference.

And debt to GDP of 220%.

You union parasites get part of it.

 

[JakeStarkey]

And Japan is really fucked if they don't do something dramatic soon.

But not for the reason you bloodsuckers say.

Japan's problem is that it's demographically aging, and it's not letting in immigrants to make up the difference.

And debt to GDP of 220%.

You union parasites get part of it.

Are the corporate honchos guaranteed their full value of golden and platinum buy outs first in Japan before union members if a company goes under, Toro?

 

[JoeB131]

And Japan is really fucked if they don't do something dramatic soon.

But not for the reason you bloodsuckers say.

Japan's problem is that it's demographically aging, and it's not letting in immigrants to make up the difference.

And debt to GDP of 220%.

You union parasites get part of it.

Again, Japan is still reeling from the housing bust where real estating was selling for a million dollars for a little apartment in Tokyo...

They are still doing better than we are on employment and standard of living, but a large part of it is that they don't think a CEO should get 8 figures for failing...