Understanding the Global Warming Debate

[bassho]

It seems science has been for sale to the highest bidder for some time (governemt of course) and we all know their schemes to redistrubte wealth of developed nations uhmmmm( U.S.) to those poor developing nations at the hands of who? Of course those elitists who have decided, declared, and are damn well determined impose their will regardless of the truth.

 

[starcraftzzz]

And you can show how a 100PPM increase in atmospheric CO2 makes waters "acidic" enough to kill "fish and other aquatic life that million depend on for food"?

Fish species are already dieing off because of the increases acidity of bodies of water. T

Really? Where? Scripps found that acidity in the oceans is natural and nothing to be concerned about. I also notice you have studiously ignored the link I provided. I wonder why

Acid Test Points To Coming Fish Troubles - Science News
I realize that you are an ignorant tool but please...

 

[westwall]

Fish species are already dieing off because of the increases acidity of bodies of water. T

Really? Where? Scripps found that acidity in the oceans is natural and nothing to be concerned about. I also notice you have studiously ignored the link I provided. I wonder why

Acid Test Points To Coming Fish Troubles - Science News
I realize that you are an ignorant tool but please...

I realise that you're an ignorant fool but please.....



Until recently we had very little data about real time changes in ocean pH around the world. Finally autonomous sensors placed in a variety of ecosystems “from tropical to polar, open-ocean to coastal, kelp forest to coral reef” give us the information we needed.

It turns out that far from being a stable pH, spots all over the world are constantly changing. One spot in the ocean varied by an astonishing 1.4 pH units regularly. All our human emissions are projected by models to change the world’s oceans by about 0.3 pH units over the next 90 years, and that’s referred to as “catastrophic”, yet we now know that fish and some calcifying critters adapt naturally to changes far larger than that every year, sometimes in just a month, and in extreme cases, in just a day.

Data was collected by 15 individual SeaFET sensors in seven types of marine habitats. Four sites were fairly stable (1, which includes the open ocean, and also sites 2,3,4) but most of the rest were highly variable (esp site 15 near Italy and 14 near Mexico) . On a monthly scale the pH varies by 0.024 to 1.430 pH units.


Figure 1. Map of pH sensor (SeaFET) deployment locations.

See Table 1 for details of locations

The authors draw two conclusions: (1) most non-open ocean sites vary a lot, and (2) and some spots vary so much they reach the “extreme” pH’s forecast for the doomsday future scenarios on a daily (a daily!) basis.

At Puerto Morelos (in Mexico’s easternmost state, on the Yucatán Peninsula) the pH varied as much as 0.3 units per hour due to groundwater springs. Each day the pH bottomed at about 10am, and peaked shortly after sunset. These extreme sites tell us that some marine life can cope with larger, faster swings than the apocalyptic predictions suggest, though of course, no one is suggesting that the entire global ocean would be happy with similar extreme swings.

Even the more stable and vast open ocean is not a fixed pH all year round. Hofmann writes that “Open-water areas (in the Southern Ocean) experience a strong seasonal shift in seawater pH (~0.3–0.5 units) between austral summer and winter.”

This paper is such a game changer, they talk about rewriting the null hypothesis:

“This natural variability has prompted the suggestion that “an appropriate null hypothesis may be, until evidence is obtained to the contrary, that major biogeochemical processes in the oceans other than calcification will not be fundamentally different under future higher CO2/lower pH conditions””




Scripps blockbuster: Ocean acidification happens all the time — naturally « JoNova: Science, carbon, climate and tax

 

[IanC]

No one is saying that man is responsible for every warming period ever to occur, they are saying that man is responsible this time, of which all the evidence and logic point to man being the culprit. What is insane is people like you who reject reality

No, what is insane is people like you who parrot the warmists without ever demanding empirical data to prove what they claim. All of the claims made by them are based on computer models. Nice try but until you can come up with some real evidence you're just another blow hard socialist trying to grab power and money from the poor.

There you go. Tempearutre has been steadily increasing. This isn't a model its whats been measured
Data.GISS: GISS Surface Temperature Analysis (GISTEMP)

What is insane is how brainwashed you are, I mean notice how your whole post is pure ignorance.

welcome to our sandbox, I see you have ad hominems and derogatory tone down pat already, so you should fit right in.

you are new here so expect to get challenged on things that you 'know' from mainstream media coverage of global warming. there is much more to the story and the people here will tell you about it. everyone presents the evidence to put their opinion in the best light but dont assume something is wrong just because a person from 'the other side' says it.

you seem to think GISTemp data is golden. it is not. nor is the NOAA data that they base their dataset on. CRUTemp also has their own problems. the corrections and adjustments that are added year after year have profoundly changed the temperature record in ways that are somewhat difficult to calculate, especially when all the numbers are boiled down into a 'global temp' or a 'global temp trend line'. here is an example of how the most thoroughly measured country in the world had its data abruptly changed-

old temps cooled, newer temps warmed.

the recent revision to NOAA and GISS is even more amazing. they seem to appreciate Muller's BEST way of chopping out cooler data points and reassembling the graph in a way that invariably makes the trend warmer. speaking of BEST, their peer review is now going into its fifth month. kinda makes you wonder if they are having problems getting other scientists and statistitians to sign off on what is sure to be publically scrutinized set of papers. (does anyone really believe that the Urban Heat Island effect is negative???)

 

[saveliberty]

Fish species are already dieing off because of the increases acidity of bodies of water. T

Really? Where? Scripps found that acidity in the oceans is natural and nothing to be concerned about. I also notice you have studiously ignored the link I provided. I wonder why

Acid Test Points To Coming Fish Troubles - Science News
I realize that you are an ignorant tool but please...

If the change were as great as you suggest, the fish should be shocked and dying now. Oops!

Ever have an aquarium? The fish die from temperature shock within hours. Chlorine poisoning, about 24 hours.

 

[Old Rocks]

And you can show how a 100PPM increase in atmospheric CO2 makes waters "acidic" enough to kill "fish and other aquatic life that million depend on for food"?

Fish species are already dieing off because of the increases acidity of bodies of water. T

Really? Where? Scripps found that acidity in the oceans is natural and nothing to be concerned about. I also notice you have studiously ignored the link I provided. I wonder why

You senile old liar, that is not at all what Scripps states.

:: SCRIPPS INSTITUTION OF OCEANOGRAPHY, UC SAN DIEGO : RESEARCH : OCEAN ACIDIFICATION :::

New Science for an Emerging Threat:

Ocean Acidification Research at Scripps Oceanography

It is well established among researchers that the uptake of increased amounts of carbon dioxide will make ocean water more acidic as the gas dissolves to create carbonic acid. Ocean chemistry is changing 100 times more rapidly than in the 650,000 years that preceded the modern industrial era and since the late 1980s, researchers at Scripps Oceanography and others have recorded an overall drop in the pH of the oceans from 8.16 to 8.05.

This increased acidity can hamper the ability of a wide variety of marine organisms ranging from coral to abalone to form calcium carbonate shells and skeletonal structures. Researchers believe that at crucial stages in the larval and juvenile stages in the lives of many marine invertebrates, ocean acidification inhibits calcification, and also appears to affect reproduction and growth in some organisms.

Scripps Oceanography is emerging as an international center of ocean acidification research. Late Scripps geochemist Charles David Keeling is best known for his famous record of atmospheric carbon dioxide concentrations known as the Keeling Curve, but he also started the first time series of ocean carbon dioxide content in 1983 near Bermuda. Scripps marine chemist Andrew Dickson established the reference standards that are used worldwide to ensure the uniform quality of carbon and alkalinity measurements in sewater. Such uniform, high-quality data has been key to helping scientists around the world recognize and understand the nature of ocean acidification.

 

[Old Rocks]

Really? Where? Scripps found that acidity in the oceans is natural and nothing to be concerned about. I also notice you have studiously ignored the link I provided. I wonder why

Acid Test Points To Coming Fish Troubles - Science News
I realize that you are an ignorant tool but please...

If the change were as great as you suggest, the fish should be shocked and dying now. Oops!

Ever have an aquarium? The fish die from temperature shock within hours. Chlorine poisoning, about 24 hours.

Ever bother to do the slightest research before you flap your ignorant yap?

 

[saveliberty]

Acid Test Points To Coming Fish Troubles - Science News
I realize that you are an ignorant tool but please...

If the change were as great as you suggest, the fish should be shocked and dying now. Oops!

Ever have an aquarium? The fish die from temperature shock within hours. Chlorine poisoning, about 24 hours.

Ever bother to do the slightest research before you flap your ignorant yap?

Yes, a great deal more than what you regurgiate from blogs.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The Warmers and Decline Hiders can simultaneously link to articles showing how a warmer climate will cause the oceans to release more "deadly" CO2 into the atmosphere ("Feedback loop") and yet cause the oceans to absorb more CO2 making it "Acidic"

The Warmers are a stand up comedy routine, you have to start getting the joke.

 

[saveliberty]

I'm surprised we have any oxygen left.

 

[westwall]

Here's one of those puzzles: liberals tend to worship at the alter of Global Warming (or Climate Change). One of the main tenets of GW (GWC) is how badly CO2 damages the planet/climate. If I understood my 1st year biology lectures, plants need CO2 in order to complete the process of photosynthesis. According to the same worshipers of GW, plants are good and should be preserved at all costs. How exactly do they reconcile that schism? Decreasing CO2 emissions would be harmful to plants.

Increases in CO2 results in more acidic bodies of waters which in turn kills of fish and other aquatic life that million depend on for food.
Second CO2 causes climate change which results in more flooding, droughts, hurricanes, and tornadoes all of which cause trillions in damages and kill hundreds of thousands of lives.
Third higher CO2 emissions and other green house gasses are very detrimental to human health cost trillions of dollars in increase health costs and lost productivity .
The list goes on.

Yes, the list is endless the last time I looked. It's amazing the power that a trace gas can have. I hear it is also the cause of your uncontrolled flatulence. The problem you have dear trollingblunderpoopeytrakarfraud is you claim CO2 is responsible for EVERYTHING. That means it is responsible for NOTHING.

You have created a non-falsifiable hypothesis, the true definition of a pseudo science is generating a world where no matter what you predict it will come true. Kind of like palm readers.

That is the level to which climatology has fallen.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Here's one of those puzzles: liberals tend to worship at the alter of Global Warming (or Climate Change). One of the main tenets of GW (GWC) is how badly CO2 damages the planet/climate. If I understood my 1st year biology lectures, plants need CO2 in order to complete the process of photosynthesis. According to the same worshipers of GW, plants are good and should be preserved at all costs. How exactly do they reconcile that schism? Decreasing CO2 emissions would be harmful to plants.

Increases in CO2 results in more acidic bodies of waters which in turn kills of fish and other aquatic life that million depend on for food.
Second CO2 causes climate change which results in more flooding, droughts, hurricanes, and tornadoes all of which cause trillions in damages and kill hundreds of thousands of lives.
Third higher CO2 emissions and other green house gasses are very detrimental to human health cost trillions of dollars in increase health costs and lost productivity .
The list goes on.

Yes, the list is endless the last time I looked. It's amazing the power that a trace gas can have. I hear it is also the cause of your uncontrolled flatulence. The problem you have dear trollingblunderpoopeytrakarfraud is you claim CO2 is responsible for EVERYTHING. That means it is responsible for NOTHING.

You have created a non-falsifiable hypothesis, the true definition of a pseudo science is generating a world where no matter what you predict it will come true. Kind of like palm readers.

That is the level to which climatology has fallen.

It's somewhere above palmistry, but far below astrology

 

[westwall]

Increases in CO2 results in more acidic bodies of waters which in turn kills of fish and other aquatic life that million depend on for food.
Second CO2 causes climate change which results in more flooding, droughts, hurricanes, and tornadoes all of which cause trillions in damages and kill hundreds of thousands of lives.
Third higher CO2 emissions and other green house gasses are very detrimental to human health cost trillions of dollars in increase health costs and lost productivity .
The list goes on.

Yes, the list is endless the last time I looked. It's amazing the power that a trace gas can have. I hear it is also the cause of your uncontrolled flatulence. The problem you have dear trollingblunderpoopeytrakarfraud is you claim CO2 is responsible for EVERYTHING. That means it is responsible for NOTHING.

You have created a non-falsifiable hypothesis, the true definition of a pseudo science is generating a world where no matter what you predict it will come true. Kind of like palm readers.

That is the level to which climatology has fallen.

It's somewhere above palmistry, but far below astrology

I think it's a tad above phrenology too!

 

[code1211]

Is there warming? Well, not all scientists agree.

Even scientist funded by Exxon agree warming is happening. So basically you are lying. The 10 warmest years on record all occurred after 2000

Is it caused by CO2s, or are CO2s a result? Scientists don't all agree.

Actually they all do agree CO2 warms the earth it is basic 5th grade science So you are lying again


COnsdiering CO2 levels have been increasing for the past 200 years its apparently to anyone with a brain that carbon sinks can't remove the emissions from the atmosphere


Sun spot activity or sun irridance is actually currently slightly lower then it used to be, meaning that if the sun were the only factor the earth should be cooling.

There are blatent cover ups and political and financial pressures that influence the AGW mania that exists today.

name one

It used to be called Global Warming, now it's called Climate Change. Change the name so that any kind of climate change can be blamed on man. It's a scam.

The name was changed due to the realization that melting arctic ice and other factors would result in some areas cooling. Things change as new evidence and data comes in
Basically you are a clueless brainwashed tool

Refusing to acknowledge data is as good a method as any to not understand it.

Various data collection agencies have collected data that show cooing over the last ten years.

Global Cooling « Reasonable Doubt on Climate Change

 

[code1211]

Planet warming and cooling are cycles the planet has gone through numerous times before man ever showed up. Sometimes these periods have been warmer than now, sometimes cooler. Labeling man as the culprit is insane.

No one is saying that man is responsible for every warming period ever to occur, they are saying that man is responsible this time, of which all the evidence and logic point to man being the culprit. What is insane is people like you who reject reality

The planet warmed by abut 0.4 degrees from the year 0 to the year 1000.

The planet warmed by about 0.3 degrees from the year 1000 to the year 2000.

The planet has cooled since the year 2000.

Tell me how your theory explains this.

File:2000 Year Temperature Comparison.png - Global Warming Art

 

[code1211]

Okay, you have such good science, what will be the average temperature in 2013? Should be an easy calculation given how dominate CO2 is in the equation according to you.

Around 58.5 F

In math equations there are answers and guesses. Around?

Of course "around".

E= about MC2

 

[code1211]

No one is saying that man is responsible for every warming period ever to occur, they are saying that man is responsible this time, of which all the evidence and logic point to man being the culprit. What is insane is people like you who reject reality

No, what is insane is people like you who parrot the warmists without ever demanding empirical data to prove what they claim. All of the claims made by them are based on computer models. Nice try but until you can come up with some real evidence you're just another blow hard socialist trying to grab power and money from the poor.

There you go. Tempearutre has been steadily increasing. This isn't a model its whats been measured
Data.GISS: GISS Surface Temperature Analysis (GISTEMP)

What is insane is how brainwashed you are, I mean notice how your whole post is pure ignorance.

I see your data and I raise mine.

You present one set of the data produced by GISS. Here are both sets: The set that was recorded and the set that was adjusted.

Odd how all of the temperatures before 1978 went down and all of the temperatures after 1980 went up.

If the science is so sound, why must the data be rigged to prove it?

Questions on the evolution of the GISS temperature product | Watts Up With That?

 

[code1211]

There you go. Tempearutre has been steadily increasing. This isn't a model its whats been measured
Data.GISS: GISS Surface Temperature Analysis (GISTEMP)

What is insane is how brainwashed you are, I mean notice how your whole post is pure ignorance.

Ever check out where these readings are collected from dipwad? Heat sinks. Next to asphalt parking lots, near air conditioning units on roof tops and so on.

If you bothered to actually read the source you'd notice that they have measuring deficies all over the world and different latitudes/longitudes, in rural and urban areas.

Also heres three more data collection outfits that show the same thing that global warming is occurring also this report was written by a former global warming skeptic
A skeptical physicist ends up confirming climate data - The Washington Post

You need to find sources that are either neutral of opposed to your viewpoint to be convincing.

 

[code1211]

Here's one of those puzzles: liberals tend to worship at the alter of Global Warming (or Climate Change). One of the main tenets of GW (GWC) is how badly CO2 damages the planet/climate. If I understood my 1st year biology lectures, plants need CO2 in order to complete the process of photosynthesis. According to the same worshipers of GW, plants are good and should be preserved at all costs. How exactly do they reconcile that schism? Decreasing CO2 emissions would be harmful to plants.

Increases in CO2 results in more acidic bodies of waters which in turn kills of fish and other aquatic life that million depend on for food.
Second CO2 causes climate change which results in more flooding, droughts, hurricanes, and tornadoes all of which cause trillions in damages and kill hundreds of thousands of lives.
Third higher CO2 emissions and other green house gasses are very detrimental to human health cost trillions of dollars in increase health costs and lost productivity .
The list goes on.

Demonstrate how the acidity of oceans is increasing away from the run off areas of the large population where the fertilizers used on lawns are causing huge increases in acidification.

Strike one.

There have been weather events since the beginning of time. There is no compelling evidence that there are any more or less severe weather events today than there were centuries ago. People starve in very cold times. People thrive in warmer times.

Strike two.

There are more people living longer and living more healthy at more advanced ages than at any point in history despite smoking, high fat diets, traffic accidents and automated warfare.

Strike three.

You're out.

 

[code1211]

Fish species are already dieing off because of the increases acidity of bodies of water. T

Really? Where? Scripps found that acidity in the oceans is natural and nothing to be concerned about. I also notice you have studiously ignored the link I provided. I wonder why

Acid Test Points To Coming Fish Troubles - Science News
I realize that you are an ignorant tool but please...

As with most of the tripe proffered by the AGW panic mongers, this article deals in many mights, coulds, mays, predicts and forecasts. There are virtually no has happened, is proven, is shown to be, is observed or exists.

The whole AGW proof is based on fear mongering and snake oil.

Show it to me or shut up.