Under God

[norwegen]

Its amazing how threads migrate from the OP to something entirely unrelated.

I started this thread to open a discussion on whether the country was better when we openly acknowledged God in our every day lives or today when such acknowledgement is denigrated as offensive.

If I was not clear in the OP, that is my fault.

If some of you are too ignorant to understand, that is your fault.

What's the earlier time frame you're referring to?

Back in the 1950's in the South, when I was growing up, god was offended by stores being open on Sunday, so the government made it illegal to open anything but gas stations, pharmacies, and convenience stores. I guess that must be the good old days that the OP is pineing for.

But the government wasn't Christian. Jes axe yer lefty historian frends.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Sigh. Plenty of Republicans and Whigs were either slavers or made lots of money off the primary slave industry, cotton. Only when the northern Democrats turned their back on the Slave Power, did the Civil War come.

Europeans, Arabs, and West Africans worked together to export slaves to the Americas.

The silly equation of Norwegian political philosophy with slavery is laughable.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Its amazing how threads migrate from the OP to something entirely unrelated.

I started this thread to open a discussion on whether the country was better when we openly acknowledged God in our every day lives or today when such acknowledgement is denigrated as offensive.

If I was not clear in the OP, that is my fault.

If some of you are too ignorant to understand, that is your fault.

What's the earlier time frame you're referring to?

Back in the 1950's in the South, when I was growing up, god was offended by stores being open on Sunday, so the government made it illegal to open anything but gas stations, pharmacies, and convenience stores. I guess that must be the good old days that the OP is pineing for.

But the government wasn't Christian. Jes axe yer lefty historian frends.

The politicians were. Jes yuh axe em.

 

[Seawytch]

Wrong, group prayer is not allowed in public schools, no matter what religion is involved.

Equally important, the pledge of allegiance is no longer said at the beginning of the school day. Tell me, who is offended by pledging allegiance to his/her country?

Group prayer does happen at schools, as long as it is not coercive on others and does not disrupt the educational process.

Hitler did not take away in prayers, you silly. You have to show that he did, and you can't. He did lower the boom on churches and clergy who opposed the Reich.

You sound familiar: you don't about which you are talking.

how is it coercive if you can opt out? No one was ever forced to take part in a morning prayer or Bible reading in school.

However, if you go to a muslim or catholic school, you will be required to participate. Do you understand the difference?

Except the only reference to slavery in the context you raise is that of equality for all. I thought you lefties loved equality.
1 Corinthians 12:13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

Negro chattel slavery was defended by many whites as a positive good for the slaves.

The people who believed that were wrong, as were the blacks in Africa who sold other blacks into slavery.

You are very naïve if you think slavery was just a white issue.

Oh brother . The blacks are to blame for slavery !!!

Maybe YOU should find God first before lecturing the rest of us . Phoney ass Christian !

I never said that. Stop the BS. Society as a whole was to blame for slavery.

Not exactly. Evangelical Christians, by and large, were abolitionists. If a Quaker owned a slave, he was excommunicated.

Democrats, by and large, were slavers, even to the point of seceding in order to form an entire country of slave states.

And if Africans hadn't built slave factories on the west coast of their continent in which to warehouse their merchandise, the extinction of indentured servitude may not have happened so quickly.

If society on the whole were responsible for slavery, then so many northern states would not have been free states. Attitudes of superiority and control drove slavery. Kind of like the superiority one feels when he transfers property from one person in order to give it to another.

Revisionist history at his finest!


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[Weatherman2020]

Group prayer does happen at schools, as long as it is not coercive on others and does not disrupt the educational process.

Hitler did not take away in prayers, you silly. You have to show that he did, and you can't. He did lower the boom on churches and clergy who opposed the Reich.

You sound familiar: you don't about which you are talking.

how is it coercive if you can opt out? No one was ever forced to take part in a morning prayer or Bible reading in school.

However, if you go to a muslim or catholic school, you will be required to participate. Do you understand the difference?

Negro chattel slavery was defended by many whites as a positive good for the slaves.

The people who believed that were wrong, as were the blacks in Africa who sold other blacks into slavery.

You are very naïve if you think slavery was just a white issue.

Oh brother . The blacks are to blame for slavery !!!

Maybe YOU should find God first before lecturing the rest of us . Phoney ass Christian !

I never said that. Stop the BS. Society as a whole was to blame for slavery.

Not exactly. Evangelical Christians, by and large, were abolitionists. If a Quaker owned a slave, he was excommunicated.

Democrats, by and large, were slavers, even to the point of seceding in order to form an entire country of slave states.

And if Africans hadn't built slave factories on the west coast of their continent in which to warehouse their merchandise, the extinction of indentured servitude may not have happened so quickly.

If society on the whole were responsible for slavery, then so many northern states would not have been free states. Attitudes of superiority and control drove slavery. Kind of like the superiority one feels when he transfers property from one person in order to give it to another.

Revisionist history at his finest!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Name one thing he said not true.
Christians brought an end to slavery. Check.
Democrats were for slavery. Check.
Africans built slave ports. Check.

 

[Syriusly]

Wrong, group prayer is not allowed in public schools, no matter what religion is involved.

Equally important, the pledge of allegiance is no longer said at the beginning of the school day. Tell me, who is offended by pledging allegiance to his/her country?

Group prayer does happen at schools, as long as it is not coercive on others and does not disrupt the educational process.

Hitler did not take away in prayers, you silly. You have to show that he did, and you can't. He did lower the boom on churches and clergy who opposed the Reich.

You sound familiar: you don't about which you are talking.

how is it coercive if you can opt out? No one was ever forced to take part in a morning prayer or Bible reading in school.

However, if you go to a muslim or catholic school, you will be required to participate. Do you understand the difference?

Except the only reference to slavery in the context you raise is that of equality for all. I thought you lefties loved equality.
1 Corinthians 12:13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

Negro chattel slavery was defended by many whites as a positive good for the slaves.

The people who believed that were wrong, as were the blacks in Africa who sold other blacks into slavery.

You are very naïve if you think slavery was just a white issue.

Oh brother . The blacks are to blame for slavery !!!

Maybe YOU should find God first before lecturing the rest of us . Phoney ass Christian !

I never said that. Stop the BS. Society as a whole was to blame for slavery.

Not exactly. Evangelical Christians, by and large, were abolitionists. If a Quaker owned a slave, he was excommunicated.

Democrats, by and large, were slavers, even to the point of seceding in order to form an entire country of slave states.

And if Africans hadn't built slave factories on the west coast of their continent in which to warehouse their merchandise, the extinction of indentured servitude may not have happened so quickly.

If society on the whole were responsible for slavery, then so many northern states would not have been free states. Attitudes of superiority and control drove slavery. Kind of like the superiority one feels when he transfers property from one person in order to give it to another.

Wow- what a wierdly revisionist point of history.

Remember- when the United States was formed- slavery was legal in almost every state- and the importation of slaves was still legal. We didn't ban the importation of slaves from Africa until 1808. Yes it was an American institution. Northern states can feel superior recognizing the evil of slavery earlier, but slavery existed legally in every state at some point.

 

[Syriusly]

how is it coercive if you can opt out? No one was ever forced to take part in a morning prayer or Bible reading in school.

However, if you go to a muslim or catholic school, you will be required to participate. Do you understand the difference?

The people who believed that were wrong, as were the blacks in Africa who sold other blacks into slavery.

You are very naïve if you think slavery was just a white issue.

Oh brother . The blacks are to blame for slavery !!!

Maybe YOU should find God first before lecturing the rest of us . Phoney ass Christian !

I never said that. Stop the BS. Society as a whole was to blame for slavery.

Not exactly. Evangelical Christians, by and large, were abolitionists. If a Quaker owned a slave, he was excommunicated.

Democrats, by and large, were slavers, even to the point of seceding in order to form an entire country of slave states.

And if Africans hadn't built slave factories on the west coast of their continent in which to warehouse their merchandise, the extinction of indentured servitude may not have happened so quickly.

If society on the whole were responsible for slavery, then so many northern states would not have been free states. Attitudes of superiority and control drove slavery. Kind of like the superiority one feels when he transfers property from one person in order to give it to another.

Revisionist history at his finest!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Name one thing he said not true.
Christians brought an end to slavery. Check.
Democrats were for slavery. Check.
Africans built slave ports. Check.

Okay- I will also bring up true points:
Christians brought chattel slavery to the United States
Christians fought against the end of slavery in the United States
Democrats were against slavery
Americans built slave ports in the United States.

 

[Redfish]

God was also offended by integration. we were taught that by our preachers every Sunday. So we had seperate everything. With god running the government, things were a lot different.

you live in some kind of parallel universe. the beliefs and practices of those times were wrong and in violation of God's teachings.

 

[Redfish]

Oh brother . The blacks are to blame for slavery !!!

Maybe YOU should find God first before lecturing the rest of us . Phoney ass Christian !

I never said that. Stop the BS. Society as a whole was to blame for slavery.

Not exactly. Evangelical Christians, by and large, were abolitionists. If a Quaker owned a slave, he was excommunicated.

Democrats, by and large, were slavers, even to the point of seceding in order to form an entire country of slave states.

And if Africans hadn't built slave factories on the west coast of their continent in which to warehouse their merchandise, the extinction of indentured servitude may not have happened so quickly.

If society on the whole were responsible for slavery, then so many northern states would not have been free states. Attitudes of superiority and control drove slavery. Kind of like the superiority one feels when he transfers property from one person in order to give it to another.

Revisionist history at his finest!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Name one thing he said not true.
Christians brought an end to slavery. Check.
Democrats were for slavery. Check.
Africans built slave ports. Check.

Okay- I will also bring up true points:
Christians brought chattel slavery to the United States
Christians fought against the end of slavery in the United States
Democrats were against slavery
Americans built slave ports in the United States.

People of all religions practiced slavery, muslims still do today
People of all religions wanted to retain slavery
Democrats were slave owners, Lincoln was a republican. the KKK was mostly democrats
Democrats filibustered the civil rights bill of 1964
Africans captured other Africans and sold them into slavery
Slavery was wrong, it was abolished. Its history. Learn from it.

 

[Redfish]

Redfish, thank you for finally being honest.

We are not going back to the 1950s and 1960s.

That is over, forever.

Right, we can never go back. But we can reestablish the basic principles that our country was founded on--------------freedom, equality, truth.

Are we better off today with citizens murdering police, with terrorists killing innocents all over he world? With our country 19 trillion dollars in debt? with more americans in poverty than ever before? with the country divided based on race, sex, age, location, ethnicity, religion?

Yes, we can never go back. But we can fix the mess that 60 years of liberalism (by both parties) has created.

 

[Redfish]

[

You on the left are trying to get God taken off our money, out of our pledge, and out of our schools.

Why do you think God wants to be on our money?

Why do you think God needs to be in our pledge- when the writer of the pledge never intended for God to be in it?

Which God do you think should be in our public schools? Do you think the States should give Christians a monopoly on God and force all students to praise Jesus- even if they are Jewish or Muslim?

Why do you want a State religion exactly?

When did I ever say I wanted a state religion? please provide my quote saying that, or you could just stop lying.

My point with this thread is that the country was a better place when religion (all of them) had a place in our public dialog.

I also never said the God "wants to be on our money" putting "in God we trust" is a statement of national belief that we are here because of a loving caring God. The words and rituals you use, or don't, to worship don't matter, and there was never an intent to create a theocracy in the USA.

I am sorry that our history is something that you are unfamiliar with, I guess you can blame the teachers union.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Redfish, thank you for finally being honest.

We are not going back to the 1950s and 1960s.

That is over, forever.

Right, we can never go back. But we can reestablish the basic principles that our country was founded on--------------freedom, equality, truth. Are we better off today with citizens murdering police, with terrorists killing innocents all over he world? With our country 19 trillion dollars in debt? with more americans in poverty than ever before? with the country divided based on race, sex, age, location, ethnicity, religion? Yes, we can never go back. But we can fix the mess that 60 years of liberalism (by both parties) has created.

% wise we have less Americans in poverty.

We have always had police being killed, with innocents all over the world killed by terrorists.

Our country is divided because the far right wants it divided.

We can fix this by being honest, and the far right will not admit they are most of the problem.

 

[JakeStarkey]

[

You on the left are trying to get God taken off our money, out of our pledge, and out of our schools.

Why do you think God wants to be on our money?

Why do you think God needs to be in our pledge- when the writer of the pledge never intended for God to be in it?

Which God do you think should be in our public schools? Do you think the States should give Christians a monopoly on God and force all students to praise Jesus- even if they are Jewish or Muslim?

Why do you want a State religion exactly?

When did I ever say I wanted a state religion? please provide my quote saying that, or you could just stop lying.

My point with this thread is that the country was a better place when religion (all of them) had a place in our public dialog.

I also never said the God "wants to be on our money" putting "in God we trust" is a statement of national belief that we are here because of a loving caring God. The words and rituals you use, or don't, to worship don't matter, and there was never an intent to create a theocracy in the USA.

I am sorry that our history is something that you are unfamiliar with, I guess you can blame the teachers union.

Stop it.

Religious values are part of the public discussion, always have been and always will be.

But you cannot pray next to me in school or the court house if you interfere with what I am doing.

 

[Redfish]

Redfish, thank you for finally being honest.

We are not going back to the 1950s and 1960s.

That is over, forever.

Right, we can never go back. But we can reestablish the basic principles that our country was founded on--------------freedom, equality, truth. Are we better off today with citizens murdering police, with terrorists killing innocents all over he world? With our country 19 trillion dollars in debt? with more americans in poverty than ever before? with the country divided based on race, sex, age, location, ethnicity, religion? Yes, we can never go back. But we can fix the mess that 60 years of liberalism (by both parties) has created.

% wise we have less Americans in poverty.

We have always had police being killed, with innocents all over the world killed by terrorists.

Our country is divided because the far right wants it divided.

We can fix this by being honest, and the far right will not admit they are most of the problem.

are you insane? is BLM a far right organization? Is Soros a far right rich guy? Is MSNBC a far right news outlet? Is Obama a far right spokesperson? Is Sharpton a KKK member?

The division is being caused by the far left, the not so far left, and the middle left.

Divide and conquer, as taught by Hitler and Alinsky and Mao.

Wake up dude, you are living a fantasy.

 

[Redfish]

[

You on the left are trying to get God taken off our money, out of our pledge, and out of our schools.

Why do you think God wants to be on our money?

Why do you think God needs to be in our pledge- when the writer of the pledge never intended for God to be in it?

Which God do you think should be in our public schools? Do you think the States should give Christians a monopoly on God and force all students to praise Jesus- even if they are Jewish or Muslim?

Why do you want a State religion exactly?

When did I ever say I wanted a state religion? please provide my quote saying that, or you could just stop lying.

My point with this thread is that the country was a better place when religion (all of them) had a place in our public dialog.

I also never said the God "wants to be on our money" putting "in God we trust" is a statement of national belief that we are here because of a loving caring God. The words and rituals you use, or don't, to worship don't matter, and there was never an intent to create a theocracy in the USA.

I am sorry that our history is something that you are unfamiliar with, I guess you can blame the teachers union.

Stop it.

Religious values are part of the public discussion, always have been and always will be.

But you cannot pray next to me in school or the court house if you interfere with what I am doing.

Religion today is being denigrated by the statists and far left ideologues. You cannot dominate a population if they place God above the state.

If you doubt that, look at north korea or China under Mao. Study some world history, you might learn something about what you are wishing for.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Redfish, thank you for finally being honest.

We are not going back to the 1950s and 1960s.

That is over, forever.

Right, we can never go back. But we can reestablish the basic principles that our country was founded on--------------freedom, equality, truth. Are we better off today with citizens murdering police, with terrorists killing innocents all over he world? With our country 19 trillion dollars in debt? with more americans in poverty than ever before? with the country divided based on race, sex, age, location, ethnicity, religion? Yes, we can never go back. But we can fix the mess that 60 years of liberalism (by both parties) has created.

% wise we have less Americans in poverty.

We have always had police being killed, with innocents all over the world killed by terrorists.

Our country is divided because the far right wants it divided.

We can fix this by being honest, and the far right will not admit they are most of the problem.

are you insane? is BLM a far right organization? Is Soros a far right rich guy? Is MSNBC a far right news outlet? Is Obama a far right spokesperson? Is Sharpton a KKK member? The division is being caused by the far left, the not so far left, and the middle left. Divide and conquer, as taught by Hitler and Alinsky and Mao. Wake up dude, you are living a fantasy.

See how insane you are, Redfish. Tea party is far right. KKK is far right. You and your ilk are far right. On and on. You have tried to divide the country and avoid the future. How is that going for you.

 

[JakeStarkey]

[

You on the left are trying to get God taken off our money, out of our pledge, and out of our schools.

Why do you think God wants to be on our money?

Why do you think God needs to be in our pledge- when the writer of the pledge never intended for God to be in it?

Which God do you think should be in our public schools? Do you think the States should give Christians a monopoly on God and force all students to praise Jesus- even if they are Jewish or Muslim?

Why do you want a State religion exactly?

When did I ever say I wanted a state religion? please provide my quote saying that, or you could just stop lying. My point with this thread is that the country was a better place when religion (all of them) had a place in our public dialog. I also never said the God "wants to be on our money" putting "in God we trust" is a statement of national belief that we are here because of a loving caring God. The words and rituals you use, or don't, to worship don't matter, and there was never an intent to create a theocracy in the USA.

I am sorry that our history is something that you are unfamiliar with, I guess you can blame the teachers union.

Stop it.

Religious values are part of the public discussion, always have been and always will be.

But you cannot pray next to me in school or the court house if you interfere with what I am doing.

Religion today is being denigrated by the statists and far left ideologues. You cannot dominate a population if they place God above the state. If you doubt that, look at north korea or China under Mao. Study some world history, you might learn something about what you are wishing for.

Sure, you can dominate a nation with "God above the state." Look at ancient Israel, engaged in genocide of its neighbors. Look at Bloody Mary of England. And dozens of other examples exist.

What you will not allowed to do is to elevate organized religion in the name of God above the state.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Oh brother . The blacks are to blame for slavery !!!

Maybe YOU should find God first before lecturing the rest of us . Phoney ass Christian !

I never said that. Stop the BS. Society as a whole was to blame for slavery.

Not exactly. Evangelical Christians, by and large, were abolitionists. If a Quaker owned a slave, he was excommunicated.

Democrats, by and large, were slavers, even to the point of seceding in order to form an entire country of slave states.

And if Africans hadn't built slave factories on the west coast of their continent in which to warehouse their merchandise, the extinction of indentured servitude may not have happened so quickly.

If society on the whole were responsible for slavery, then so many northern states would not have been free states. Attitudes of superiority and control drove slavery. Kind of like the superiority one feels when he transfers property from one person in order to give it to another.

Revisionist history at his finest!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Name one thing he said not true.
Christians brought an end to slavery. Check.
Democrats were for slavery. Check.
Africans built slave ports. Check.

Okay- I will also bring up true points:
Christians brought chattel slavery to the United States
Christians fought against the end of slavery in the United States
Democrats were against slavery
Americans built slave ports in the United States.

Link with names. Otherwise bullshit.

 

[Vandalshandle]

God was also offended by integration. we were taught that by our preachers every Sunday. So we had seperate everything. With god running the government, things were a lot different.

you live in some kind of parallel universe. the beliefs and practices of those times were wrong and in violation of God's teachings.

...and yet, the state governments from Texas through Virginia had their laws tailored to god's will as interpreted by mainstream Southern Protestant religious teachings in my lifetime, until the people decided to remove god from government, which also happened during my lifetime. So, you and I agree that government and religion is a bad combination.

 

[Syriusly]

I never said that. Stop the BS. Society as a whole was to blame for slavery.

Not exactly. Evangelical Christians, by and large, were abolitionists. If a Quaker owned a slave, he was excommunicated.

Democrats, by and large, were slavers, even to the point of seceding in order to form an entire country of slave states.

And if Africans hadn't built slave factories on the west coast of their continent in which to warehouse their merchandise, the extinction of indentured servitude may not have happened so quickly.

If society on the whole were responsible for slavery, then so many northern states would not have been free states. Attitudes of superiority and control drove slavery. Kind of like the superiority one feels when he transfers property from one person in order to give it to another.

Revisionist history at his finest!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Name one thing he said not true.
Christians brought an end to slavery. Check.
Democrats were for slavery. Check.
Africans built slave ports. Check.

Okay- I will also bring up true points:
Christians brought chattel slavery to the United States
Christians fought against the end of slavery in the United States
Democrats were against slavery
Americans built slave ports in the United States.

Link with names. Otherwise bullshit.

Note that you didn't ask that of the other poster.

Note your bullshit.

Everything I posted was true.
Name one that was not.