U-864 and Operation Caesar

[odanny]

This was a secret mission in Feb. of 1945 to send top secret materials to Japan in order to bolster their offensive capacity against the United States. Among the cargo was 67 tons of mercury, which was needed in making bomb fuses, but there was also a prototype of the V2 and the jet engine used in the ME-262.

U-864 was a Type IXD2 submarine, of which only 5 were produced. This was a much larger sub than the Type IX submarines and could sail around the world without having to stop and refuel. With its cargo intended to arm Japan with weapons not encountered by the U.S. in the Pacific, with the hope they could develop them in time.

The U-864 would instead find itself with a special place in history: It would become the only submarine known to be sunk while submerged by another submerged submarine firing torpedos. A 4 torpedo spread was launched by the British submarine HMS Venture and the last of the 4 would ultimately sink the sub. Japan never had a chance to develop these wonder weapons.

Operation Caesar - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

German submarine U-864 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[whitehall]

In Feb. 1945 the U.S. was conducting the first assault on the Japanese homeland on Iwo Jima and the Japanese knew there wasn't going to be any miracle weapon that would save them from annihilation so they literally fought to the death. Japan was being bombed daily with daylight Allied raids and it was all over but the surrender. Even if a German submarine managed to offload a cargo of mercury it would have sat on a dock in Nagasaki until the Big One vaporized it.

 

[odanny]

In Feb. 1945 the U.S. was conducting the first assault on the Japanese homeland on Iwo Jima and the Japanese knew there wasn't going to be any miracle weapon that would save them from annihilation so they literally fought to the death. Japan was being bombed daily with daylight Allied raids and it was all over but the surrender. Even if a German submarine managed to offload a cargo of mercury it would have sat on a dock in Nagasaki until the Big One vaporized it.

That's your opinion, but you're guessing what the Japanese could have done in the remaining 6 months of the war. It wouldn't have changed how it ended, but it could have inflicted greater casualties on the Allies.

 

[whitehall]

That's your opinion, but you're guessing what the Japanese could have done in the remaining 6 months of the war. It wouldn't have changed how it ended, but it could have inflicted greater casualties on the Allies.

The Japanese had no industry left in the last five months. Americans were running out of targets nd the japanese navy was nonexistent except for a few subs that couldn't refuel.

That's your opinion, but you're guessing what the Japanese could have done in the remaining 6 months of the war. It wouldn't have changed how it ended, but it could have inflicted greater casualties on the Allies.

In April of 1945 the U.S. was in the process of invading the Japanese island of Okinawa. The Japanese were so desperate that they sent the pride of the Japanese navy, the Yamato battleship, to try to stem the American invasion with it's gigantic 18 inch guns. The problem was that the Japanese did not have the resources to protect the battleship and it was sunk enroute to it's destination without firing a shot. By April 1945, Japan was finished as a naval power but it still had fanatic committed ground troops who would fight to the death.

 

[Silent Warrior]

To see the state of industry in Japan as the war winded down one only needs to look at their main military weapon. The type 99 Arisaka was actually a fine bolt action rifle. As the war progressed their manufacture became more and more shoddy until the final ones, sometimes referred to as the last ditch models, were not even really safe to shoot. The rest of their weapon production suffered as well.

 

[odanny]

To see the state of industry in Japan as the war winded down one only needs to look at their main military weapon. The type 99 Arisaka was actually a fine bolt action rifle. As the war progressed their manufacture became more and more shoddy until the final ones, sometimes referred to as the last ditch models, were not even really safe to shoot. The rest of their weapon production suffered as well.

The Japanese actually had far more mini subs and aircraft hidden away in bunkers and other underground locations than Allied planners and intelligence had predicted, along with untold thousands of civilians trained to fight any land invasion.

The real problem was a lack of trained pilots, but I imagine that Kamikaze pilots on a jet powered one way payload could have inflicted significant damage on the U.S. Navy.

 

[odanny]

The Japanese had no industry left in the last five months. Americans were running out of targets nd the japanese navy was nonexistent except for a few subs that couldn't refuel.

In April of 1945 the U.S. was in the process of invading the Japanese island of Okinawa. The Japanese were so desperate that they sent the pride of the Japanese navy, the Yamato battleship, to try to stem the American invasion with it's gigantic 18 inch guns. The problem was that the Japanese did not have the resources to protect the battleship and it was sunk enroute to it's destination without firing a shot. By April 1945, Japan was finished as a naval power but it still had fanatic committed ground troops who would fight to the death.

This battleship, which was literally in a class of its own, far superior to anything the Allies had, was only exposed to naval gunfire once, and after that fateful encounter in either 42 or 43, it was safely sheltered in Japan, so as not to risk it being sunk by the U.S. Navy.

When it was sent to Okinawa, it was sent on a suicide mission. There was zero chance of this ship returning to Japan, because it had absolutely no air cover. Allied pilots rained bombs down on it, and it was a sitting duck, needlessly, foolishly sacrificed, along with all her crew.

 

[AZrailwhale]

This battleship, which was literally in a class of its own, far superior to anything the Allies had, was only exposed to naval gunfire once, and after that fateful encounter in either 42 or 43, it was safely sheltered in Japan, so as not to risk it being sunk by the U.S. Navy.

When it was sent to Okinawa, it was sent on a suicide mission. There was zero chance of this ship returning to Japan, because it had absolutely no air cover. Allied pilots rained bombs down on it, and it was a sitting duck, needlessly, foolishly sacrificed, along with all her crew.

Yamato was sent out without fuel to return. She and her escorting Agano class light cruiser and destroyers were the largest Kamikaze mission of the war.