CDZ Two options...the European model of self defense, and the American model of Self defensse.

[GLASNOST]

And a lot of those suicides would have not happened were it not for the availability of a gun. I've been to that dark place a few times. But the lack of availability of that easy, quick and sure way stopped me.

Finally, someone speaks from deep down in reality.

 

[GLASNOST]

And a lot of those suicides would have not happened were it not for the availability of a gun. I've been to that dark place a few times. But the lack of availability of that easy, quick and sure way stopped me.

Anyone who uses a gun has committed himself to dying.
If not a gun, then he throws himself in front of a truck.

You didn't even read what he said.

 

[AsherN]

Anyone who uses a gun has committed himself to dying.
If not a gun, then he throws himself in front of a truck.
Either way, the fact you might kill yourself does not support a sound argument for making it harder for me to get a gun.

Not even remotely true. Suicide is often a momentary feeling. It can come from a very in the moment feeling of despair and if not acted upon can pass. Those are the ones that can be prevented by not having ready access to a gun.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Not even remotely true. Suicide is often a momentary feeling. It can come from a very in the moment feeling of despair and if not acted upon can pass. Those are the ones that can be prevented by not having ready access to a gun.

As I said:
Either way, the fact you might kill yourself does not support a sound argument for making it harder for me to get a gun.

 

[toobfreak]

the European model of self defense, and the American model of Self defensse​

Which model do you prefer?

LESSEE: The European Model of self-defense

OR, The American Model of self-defense:

Which to choose, which to choose.

 

[GLASNOST]

LESSEE: The European Model of self-defense


View attachment 615620
OR, The American Model of self-defense:


View attachment 615624

Which to choose, which to choose.

In the two choices you've presented someone gets killed in one but not the other.

 

[2aguy]

Not even remotely true. Suicide is often a momentary feeling. It can come from a very in the moment feeling of despair and if not acted upon can pass. Those are the ones that can be prevented by not having ready access to a gun.

Then please...explain to us how it is that South Korea, Japan, and china have higher suicide rates than the United States..they have extreme gun control.........Then explain these wonderful European countries with higher suicide rates than the U.S....

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jea/14/6/14_6_187/_pdf







And yet Scotland has a higher suicide rate than the U.S......Japan, where only criminals and cops have guns, has a higher suicide rate than the U.S....Sweden has a higher suicide rate than the U.S....Denmark has a higher suicide rate than the u.S.....



France

Germany,

Hungary

Iceland

New Zealand

Poland

Norway

Japan

South Korea



https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/suiciderate.html



Scotland..



15.7 suicides per 100,000

In 2019?

16.7 suicides per 100,000.

And in the U.S.?

13.93 per 100,000



Suicide facts and figures



Changes in Suicide Rates — United States, ...



https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/suiciderate.html



South Korea 24.7

Hungary 21

Japan 19.4

Belgium 18.4

Finland 16.5

France 14.6

Austria 13.8

Poland 13.8

Czec Republic 12.7

New Zealand 11.9

Denmark 11.3

Sweden 11.1

Norway 10.9

Slovac Republic 10.9

Iceland 10.3

Germany 10.3

Canada 10.2

United States 10.1



A new report by Unicef contains a shocking statistic - New Zealand has by far the highest youth suicide rate in the developed world.
A shock but no surprise - it's not the first time the country tops that table.
The Unicef report found New Zealand's youth suicide rate - teenagers between 15 and 19 - to be the highest of a long list of 41 OECD and EU countries.
The rate of 15.6 suicides per 100,000 people is twice as high as the US rate and almost five times that of Britain.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-40284130



Another year...Japan and 20 other countries with higher suicide rates than U.S....



https://www.nli-research.co.jp/files/topics/51104_ext_18_en_0.pdf?site=nli

 

[Tommy Tainant]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

You make claims that are ridiculous. You are a joke.

 

[2aguy]

You make claims that are ridiculous. You are a joke.

Wow.....great use of facts, truth and reality in your post......

Could you please repeat those facts, truths, and the reality, you know, in case someone missed it?

 

[GLASNOST]

You make claims that are ridiculous. You are a joke.

The definition of a joke. Plus, completely senseless. How can guns be "the best tool for self-defence" keeping in mind that we are not defending ourselves against guns?

I knew a fellow who one day walked around the town saying, "Ummm! Ummm!" I asked him what he was doing and he replied "Scaring away the bears." I told him there are no bears to scare to which he responded, "See, it works!"

 

[2aguy]

You make claims that are ridiculous. You are a joke.

The definition of a joke. Plus, completely senseless. How can guns be "the best tool for self-defence" keeping in mind that we are not defending ourselves against guns?

I knew a fellow who one day walked around the town saying, "Ummm! Ummm!" I asked him what he was doing and he replied "Scaring away the bears." I told him there are no bears to scare to which he responded, "See, it works!"

Hmmm...what do the British police state?

Police struggle to stop flood of firearms into UK


Police and border officials are struggling to stop a rising supply of illegal firearms being smuggled into Britain, a senior police chief has warned.

Chief constable Andy Cooke, the national police lead for serious and organised crime, said law enforcement had seen an increased supply of guns over the past year, and feared that it would continue in 2019

The Guardian has learned that the situation is so serious that the National Crime Agency has taken the rare step of using its legal powers to direct every single police force to step up the fight against illegal guns.

The NCA has used tasking powers to direct greater intelligence about firearms to be gathered by all 43 forces in England and Wales.

Another senior law enforcement official said that “new and clean” weapons were now being used in the majority of shootings, as opposed to guns once being so difficult to obtain that they would be “rented out” to be used in multiple crimes.

Cooke, the Merseyside chief constable, told the Guardian: “We in law enforcement expect the rise in new firearms to continue. We are doing all we can. We are not in a position to stop it anytime soon.

“Law enforcement is more joined up now than before, but the scale of the problem is such that despite a number of excellent firearms seizures, I expect the rise in supply to be a continuing issue.”

The increasing supply of guns belies problems with UK border security and innovations by organised crime gangs. Smugglers have increasingly found new ways and innovative routes to get guns past border defences.


Cooke said that the dynamics of the streets of British cities had changed and that criminals were more willing to use guns: “If they bring them in people will buy them. It’s a kudos thing for organised criminals.”

Simon Brough, head of firearms at the NCA, said: “The majority of guns being used are new, clean firearms ... which indicates a relatively fluid supply.”

He said shotguns were 40% of the total, with an increase in burglaries to try and steal them.

Handguns are the next biggest category, most often smuggled in from overseas, with ferry ports such as Dover being a popular entry point into the UK for organised crime groups:

“We’re doing a lot to fight back against it,” Brough said, adding that compared to other European countries, the availability in the UK was relatively lower.




==========

 

[2aguy]

The definition of a joke. Plus, completely senseless. How can guns be "the best tool for self-defence" keeping in mind that we are not defending ourselves against guns?

I knew a fellow who one day walked around the town saying, "Ummm! Ummm!" I asked him what he was doing and he replied "Scaring away the bears." I told him there are no bears to scare to which he responded, "See, it works!"

When a woman is attacked by a man, her best tool for self defense is a gun......when a woman is attacked by a group of men, her best tool for self defense is a gun......

The men, being physically stronger, more aggressive, often much larger, and also able to attack in groups, are easily capable of beating, raping, torturing and murdering a woman without a gun, and could use any other weapons, knives, screwdrives, clubs, their bare hands....to accomplish anything they want against the woman....

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Hmmm...what do the British police state?

Police struggle to stop flood of firearms into UK

Police and border officials are struggling to stop a rising supply of illegal firearms being smuggled into Britain, a senior police chief has warned.

Chief constable Andy Cooke, the national police lead for serious and organised crime, said law enforcement had seen an increased supply of guns over the past year, and feared that it would continue in 2019

The Guardian has learned that the situation is so serious that the National Crime Agency has taken the rare step of using its legal powers to direct every single police force to step up the fight against illegal guns.

The NCA has used tasking powers to direct greater intelligence about firearms to be gathered by all 43 forces in England and Wales.

Another senior law enforcement official said that “new and clean” weapons were now being used in the majority of shootings, as opposed to guns once being so difficult to obtain that they would be “rented out” to be used in multiple crimes.

Cooke, the Merseyside chief constable, told the Guardian: “We in law enforcement expect the rise in new firearms to continue. We are doing all we can. We are not in a position to stop it anytime soon.

“Law enforcement is more joined up now than before, but the scale of the problem is such that despite a number of excellent firearms seizures, I expect the rise in supply to be a continuing issue.”

The increasing supply of guns belies problems with UK border security and innovations by organised crime gangs. Smugglers have increasingly found new ways and innovative routes to get guns past border defences.


Cooke said that the dynamics of the streets of British cities had changed and that criminals were more willing to use guns: “If they bring them in people will buy them. It’s a kudos thing for organised criminals.”

Simon Brough, head of firearms at the NCA, said: “The majority of guns being used are new, clean firearms ... which indicates a relatively fluid supply.”

He said shotguns were 40% of the total, with an increase in burglaries to try and steal them.

Handguns are the next biggest category, most often smuggled in from overseas, with ferry ports such as Dover being a popular entry point into the UK for organised crime groups:

“We’re doing a lot to fight back against it,” Brough said, adding that compared to other European countries, the availability in the UK was relatively lower.




==========

We need less guns not more. We can see the devastating effect of guns in the wild west state of the US. Nobody wants that.

 

[M14 Shooter]

We need less guns not more. We can see the devastating effect of guns in the wild west state of the US. Nobody wants that.

You make claims that are ridiculous. You are a joke.

 

[GLASNOST]

You make claims that are ridiculous. You are a joke.

The joke is purchasing and carrying guns to defend ourselves against what .... having a different opinion than someone else? It's a joke and it's ridiculous. Perhaps if Americans were not so prone to feelings of inferiority then they wouldn't see danger at everything that moves and wouldn't feel threatened by people at every corner.

 

[2aguy]

We need less guns not more. We can see the devastating effect of guns in the wild west state of the US. Nobody wants that.

We don't have the wild west...we have a political party, the democrat party, that sees an advantage to attacking the police into non-action, and then releasing the most violent criminal offenders over and over again......if we could stop them from doing those two things, we would have a lower crime rate than Britain, and we would still have our guns........guns that protect you and the rest of Europe from putin...

 

[2aguy]

The American option for women....

 

[2aguy]

A woman from the American model....

 

[2aguy]

The American model.....more Black women are buying and carrying guns for self defense...this is not remotely possible in Europe...

Largest rise in gun ownership? African-American women

COLUMBUS, Ohio (WCMH) — For the women gathered in Olde Towne East at the Onyx Gun Club, owning a gun allows them to protect and educate their children while exercising their Second Amendment …

www.nbc4i.com

 

[Stryder50]

We need less guns not more. We can see the devastating effect of guns in the wild west state of the US. Nobody wants that.

And we see the devastating effect of knives, clubs and other weapons in UK and Europe.
Any "Wild West" state in the USA has mostly to do with gangs and drug cartels.

Guns don't always have to be used/fired to have an effect.

Several years ago, while my oldest son was going to college after getting out of the Army, he and his wife and their baby first born had an episode that involved firearms and saving them from harm and/or death.

The were living in the South Tacoma area, a place known for higher than average crime, but it was where he was doing college. One late afternoon in Summer time they were headed home and he stopped at the local 7-11 to buy his wife a pack of cigs. As he exited the store and approached his vehicle, the car parked next to him on the driver's side, had a person in the front passenger seat open his door, blocking my son's path.

One would think that person was exiting the vehicle, but no, just wanted to harass and provoke my son, block his passage. The car was occupied by four "disadvantaged" black utes, and several other black persons loitering in the parking lot began to circle in towards the "confrontation" that was brewing.

My son, as usual was packing concealed carry and while keeping his gun hand free and ready to draw, his other hand was in his jacket pocket fingering the pepper spray. The ute blocking my son's passage continued with inane and increasingly provocative dialogue.

Inside my son's Escalade was his wife, in the front passenger seat, and their baby daughter in the back. His wife was looking around, gauged the developing situation, and reached into her purse and pulled out her pistol, holding it out in clear view in front of her, pointed to the ceiling.

The window on the driver's side was down so she had heard the dialogue exchange and looking at the threatening ute holding the door to block my son, she said;
"Shut the f**k up and let him get in our car!

Suddenly the ute became very civil and pulled his door out of the way. The crowd circling in began to back away. My son was able to enter his vehicle and quickly depart.

There's a couple of lessons here but I'll wait to see if you, or others, are sharp and honest enough to see what they are. BTW, my son is a combat vet whom had served in Iraq before coming home to attend college and start a family.