CDZ Two options...the European model of self defense, and the American model of Self defensse.

[Blues Man]

I do have to pay tax on the purchase price of a boat. That is a fee. I also have to pay to have the title transferred into my name. Another fee. Of course I also have to buy life jackets, fire extenguishers, and all the other safety equipment that is governmentally required if I'm going to boat on navigable waters. All in all, there is quite a bit more than the purchase price of a boat that the government imposes on my right to own and enjoy a boat.

No Sales taxes are not fees they are taxes.

I have to pay sales tax on a gun and ammo that is not the same as having to pay fees in order to buy a gun in the first place

 

[BULLDOG]

States cannot pass laws that violate the US Constitution.

Plenty of states require gun registration. You finally saying gun registration is constitutional?

 

[Blues Man]

As far as I know, everything I do is constitutional. Each and every permit, tax or fee that I am required is so I can exercize my rights.

OK So tell me what right do you have to apply for a permit and pay a fee in order to exercise?

Again this is not sales taxes or registration fees.

You can own a boat and never register it if you don't operate it on public waterways
You can own a car and not have to register it if you don't drive on public roads

You have the right to OWN any vehicle and you do not need to pay for that right before you exercise it what you do not have is the right operate them anywhere you want.

So once again your analogies are extremely poor.

 

[Blues Man]

Plenty of states require gun registration. You finally saying gun registration is constitutional?

Yes it is.

Just as gun permits and requiring people pay for classes and to be fingerprinted are unconstitutional.

“A State may not impose a charge for the enjoyment of a right granted by the Federal Constitution.”

 

[BULLDOG]

No Sales taxes are not fees they are taxes.

I have to pay sales tax on a gun and ammo that is not the same as having to pay fees in order to buy a gun in the first place

A fee is money collected for a specific purpose.

 

[Blues Man]

A fee is money collected for a specific purpose.

And fees for the specific purpose of allowing a person to exercise a constitutionally protected right are unconstitutional.

A sales tax is not because it is applied to the transaction price and not a prerequisite to exercise the right to purchase.

 

[BULLDOG]

And fees for the specific purpose of allowing a person to exercise a constitutionally protected right are unconstitutional.

A sales tax is not because it is applied to the transaction price and not a prerequisite to exercise the right to purchase.

Then what are you doing wasting time here. You should be on your way to the supreme court to tell them. I'm sure they would appreciate someone like you explaining the constitution to them.

 

[Blues Man]

Then what are you doing wasting time here. You should be on your way to the supreme court to tell them. I'm sure they would appreciate someone like you explaining the constitution to them.

Thera are already cases up for SCOTUS review

The NY permitting policies for one.

SCOTUS has already found a number of states to be violating the Constitution with their gun laws

Here is a list

Supreme Court Gun Cases 2022: Concealed Carry in the Spotlight

These are the Supreme Court gun cases you should keep an eye on if you care about concealed carry and Second Amendment rights.

freerangeamerican.us

 

[RetiredGySgt]

As far as I know, everything I do is constitutional. Each and every permit, tax or fee that I am required is so I can exercize my rights.

Besides the 2nd name ONE RIGHT that has a fee to exersize it.

 

[2aguy]

Plenty of states require gun registration. You finally saying gun registration is constitutional?

It's not, and this needs to be taken to court.

 

[2aguy]

And in Britain.....the anti-stalking laws? Take far too long........

In America....even with draconian gun control laws, a woman can have a gun in 24-72 hours.......vs. 9 months to get a useless piece of paper in Britain...

Have you ever fought off a violent stalker with a piece of paper?

New powers to shield stalking victims from dangerous perpetrators were “mis-sold” by the government and are failing to provide rapid protection, according to a damning report sent to the Home Office.

Stalking Protection Orders were introduced in 2020 and allow police to intervene in stalking cases before a conviction, to prevent obsessive behaviours from escalating.


But the process of obtaining the Asbo-style orders is “very slow” and “bureaucratic”, according to the early findings of research cited in an official government review.

In one case identified by the Suzy Lamplugh Trust, a woman who feared being murdered by her stalker said it took nine months from the date she requested a Stalking Protection Order for it to be put in place. In that time, she received death threats and suffered a breakdown.

The research, conducted by Cheshire Police across five police force regions, comes as official data reveals a disparity in use of the orders around the country, with seven force areas failing to apply for any in the year after they were introduced.
------

“These orders are as rare as hens’ teeth. They’re just not being obtained. And in addition to that, police continue not to charge stalking,” she said.

Because the orders are not widely used, many victims are resorting to applying for costly injunctions instead, she said. “They can end up in a worse position because then they’re also seen as personally taking the perpetrator to court. It increases the risk.”

Anti-stalking orders âfail to protect women from dangerâ

Slow uptake by police sees just 456 issued in first year, says Home Office report

www.theguardian.com

Yeah......how about these women have the option to buy, and carry a gun........that would be so much easier and more effective...


Riddle me this.....

Does this make sense?

A member of the House of Lords can easily get a permit for a shotgun to hunt quail on one of his private estates.....while a woman who is being stalked by a potential violent rapist and killer can't get a permit to save herself....

Does this make sense?

 

[BULLDOG]

And in Britain.....the anti-stalking laws? Take far too long........

In America....even with draconian gun control laws, a woman can have a gun in 24-72 hours.......vs. 9 months to get a useless piece of paper in Britain...

Have you ever fought off a violent stalker with a piece of paper?

New powers to shield stalking victims from dangerous perpetrators were “mis-sold” by the government and are failing to provide rapid protection, according to a damning report sent to the Home Office.

Stalking Protection Orders were introduced in 2020 and allow police to intervene in stalking cases before a conviction, to prevent obsessive behaviours from escalating.


But the process of obtaining the Asbo-style orders is “very slow” and “bureaucratic”, according to the early findings of research cited in an official government review.

In one case identified by the Suzy Lamplugh Trust, a woman who feared being murdered by her stalker said it took nine months from the date she requested a Stalking Protection Order for it to be put in place. In that time, she received death threats and suffered a breakdown.

The research, conducted by Cheshire Police across five police force regions, comes as official data reveals a disparity in use of the orders around the country, with seven force areas failing to apply for any in the year after they were introduced.
------

“These orders are as rare as hens’ teeth. They’re just not being obtained. And in addition to that, police continue not to charge stalking,” she said.

Because the orders are not widely used, many victims are resorting to applying for costly injunctions instead, she said. “They can end up in a worse position because then they’re also seen as personally taking the perpetrator to court. It increases the risk.”

Anti-stalking orders âfail to protect women from dangerâ

Slow uptake by police sees just 456 issued in first year, says Home Office report

www.theguardian.com

Yeah......how about these women have the option to buy, and carry a gun........that would be so much easier and more effective...


Riddle me this.....

Does this make sense?

A member of the House of Lords can easily get a permit for a shotgun to hunt quail on one of his private estates.....while a woman who is being stalked by a potential violent rapist and killer can't get a permit to save herself....

Does this make sense?

In the US, more than half a million women are raped per year. In England, they have about 40,000. We should be doing what they are doing.

 

[2aguy]

In the US, more than half a million women are raped per year. In England, they have about 40,000. We should be doing what they are doing.
View attachment 615049

Which would be what, exactly?

Obviously, women need more protection according to what you just posted....so guns would be a great way to stop violent men from raping women.......

Restraining orders and harsh words don't stop violent rapists.....

Women should buy guns and learn how to use them....they are the most effective tool at stopping larger, more numerous, violent criminals.........

Glad you agree....

 

[2aguy]

In the US, more than half a million women are raped per year. In England, they have about 40,000. We should be doing what they are doing.
View attachment 615049

One thing though....the British government needs to stop allowing rapists from raping their teenage girls simply because they are afraid of being called racists.......

 

[BULLDOG]

Which would be what, exactly?

Obviously, women need more protection according to what you just posted....so guns would be a great way to stop violent men from raping women.......

Restraining orders and harsh words don't stop violent rapists.....

Women should buy guns and learn how to use them....they are the most effective tool at stopping larger, more numerous, violent criminals.........

Glad you agree....

England = fewer guns = fewer assaults on women
US = many more guns = many more assaults on women
We should do what they are doing.

 

[2aguy]

England = fewer guns = fewer assaults on women
US = many more guns = many more assaults on women
We should do what they are doing.

You can't make a causation on any of those ..........

Different cultures, different histories, different types of criminals engaging in their criminal activity......

Again......

Do you think we should trade our criminals for their criminals? To reduce our levels of crime...

Their criminals have access to guns, even use them, but rarely kill with those illegal guns...........

They have rape, but less rape.....what is in their rapists minds that is different from the minds of rapists in this country...

Meanwhile, you would have to explain how it is that more guns = less violent crime, less gun crime in the United States...that is a fact, and you can't explain it away....

Over 27 years, up to the year 2015, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.


This means that access to guns does not create gun crime........

Please....explain how that happened as more Americans, not less....owned and actually carried guns in public....

Please....you guys never, ever address that fact......

 

[BULLDOG]

You can't make a causation on any of those ..........

Different cultures, different histories, different types of criminals engaging in their criminal activity......

Again......

Do you think we should trade our criminals for their criminals? To reduce our levels of crime...

Their criminals have access to guns, even use them, but rarely kill with those illegal guns...........

They have rape, but less rape.....what is in their rapists minds that is different from the minds of rapists in this country...

Meanwhile, you would have to explain how it is that more guns = less violent crime, less gun crime in the United States...that is a fact, and you can't explain it away....

Over 27 years, up to the year 2015, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.


This means that access to guns does not create gun crime........

Please....explain how that happened as more Americans, not less....owned and actually carried guns in public....

Please....you guys never, ever address that fact......

And....
And...
And........The sun was in my eyes, right coach? and.... BUT HILLARY?!?! ...and BIRTH CERTIFICATE!!!

 

[2aguy]

And....
And...
And........The sun was in my eyes, right coach? and.... BUT HILLARY?!?! ...and BIRTH CERTIFICATE!!!

Wow....lame post....doesn't respond to the issue.....

Again....eplain this according to your beliefs....

Over 27 years, up to the year 2015, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.


This means that access to guns does not create gun crime........

Your refusal to address this is noted .............

 

[AsherN]

We don't deny the number. The number is made up of over 2/3 suicides, and 1/3 gun murder....with the majority of the gun murder victims who are criminals, not normal people


So in no way are the numbers "too many," when 60% are suicides..........

Suicide by gun....2019

23,941

Gun murder.....

10,235

Broker Version 9.4 (Build 1366)

webappa.cdc.gov

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

ucr.fbi.gov

Meanwhile.....with 600 million guns in private hands, and over 19.4 million Americans who can legally carry their guns in public for self defense.....

Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop brutal rapes, robberies, beatings, knifings, and murders......

There are not too many guns.....our problem is the democrat party, a political party that keeps releasing violent gun criminals over and over again, no matter how many times they are caught with illegal guns and caught using illegal guns for crime...

And a lot of those suicides would have not happened were it not for the availability of a gun. I've been to that dark place a few times. But the lack of availability of that easy, quick and sure way stopped me.

 

[M14 Shooter]

And a lot of those suicides would have not happened were it not for the availability of a gun. I've been to that dark place a few times. But the lack of availability of that easy, quick and sure way stopped me.

Anyone who uses a gun has committed himself to dying.
If not a gun, then he throws himself in front of a truck.
Either way, the fact you might kill yourself does not support a sound argument for making it harder for me to get a gun.