CDZ Two options...the European model of self defense, and the American model of Self defensse.

[BULLDOG]

Do you have to get a permit and pay hundreds of dollars BEFORE you can exercise that right?

Do you have to get a permit BEFORE you can exercise your 4th and 5th amendment rights?

Do you have to pay for a permit BEFORE you can exercise your right to vote?

If you think it's perfectly fine to charge people hundreds of dollars BEFORE they can exercise their second amendment rights then why not charge the same amount BEFORE they can exercise ANY right?

Well, yes, I do have to pay before I can exercize my right to buy a car. If I buy a car, I can't take possession of it and have it transferred into my name before the sales tax is paid.

 

[Blues Man]

Well, yes, I do have to pay before I can exercize my right to buy a car. If I buy a car, I can't take possession of it and have it transferred into my name before the sales tax is paid.

No you don't.

to what government agency do you have to pay a fee BEFORE you exercise your right to buy a car?

You do not have to obtain any permission from any state or the federal government and you do not have to pay for a permit just to be allowed into a showroom.

Paying FOR a car and paying a fee in order to buy a car are 2 entirely different things.

Tell me do you think a person should have to pay 100 dollars, get fingerprinted at his own expense, take a class at his own expense BEFORE he can register to vote?

 

[BULLDOG]

A sales tax is not a condition that has to be paid BEFORE you exercise your right to buy a boat.

You are either being intentionally obtuse or you don't understand the concept that being forced to pay as a prerequisite of exercising a right is unconstitutional.

Which is it.

So I don't have to pay sales tax before I get the title transferred into my name and take possession of it? Would you go to the tax office with me, and explain that to the woman at the window? She doesn't seem to agree with you.

 

[Blues Man]

So I don't have to pay sales tax before I get the title transferred into my name and take possession of it? Would you go to the tax office with me, and explain that to the woman at the window? She doesn't seem to agree with you.

Are you really this obtuse?

You cannot see the difference between paying the government in order to exercise a right and the purchase of material goods that may be taxed at the time of purchase?

Tell me did you have to go to the town hall request a form for a permit that would allow you to purchase a boat submit a fee for that permit, show proof that you paid for and attended a course on boat safety, go to the police station and pay to get fingerprinted BEFORE you could buy the boat?

No you didn't.

Trying to equate a sales tax with a fee as a prerequisite to exercising a right is beyond ludicrous and no one but a moron would think they are equivalent.

 

[BULLDOG]

So what?

Are you going to call every Remington shotgun a "military" weapon?

Are you going to call every 1911, or 9mm handgun a military weapon?

Shit MPs carry batons maybe we should classify ALL batons as military weapons.

All soldiers carry a large blade of some kind so maybe we should classify all knives a military weapons.

This is you being disingenuous.

If we are talking about firearms that have been available on the civilian market for decades or even a century then any semiautomatic rifle is a civilian rifle regardless of caliber or cosmetics.

Don't get your panties in a knot. If you gun nuts want to keep throwing terms around, you need to at least come up with accurate definitions for what you are describing, instead of just spouting crap. You said a military rifle was capable of single shot semiautomatic, select or burst fire semiautomatic and fully automatic firing. I pointed out one example of a military rifle that didn't fit your definition. There are others.

 

[BULLDOG]

So your saying some constitutional rights are greater then others?

And you don't have a constitutional right to buy a boat

If you want to redefine what I say, why do you even bother reading my posts?

 

[BULLDOG]

No you don't.

to what government agency do you have to pay a fee BEFORE you exercise your right to buy a car?

You do not have to obtain any permission from any state or the federal government and you do not have to pay for a permit just to be allowed into a showroom.

Paying FOR a car and paying a fee in order to buy a car are 2 entirely different things.

Tell me do you think a person should have to pay 100 dollars, get fingerprinted at his own expense, take a class at his own expense BEFORE he can register to vote?

That's a really odd question, but no, you don't need a permit just to look at cars.
Paying for a car and paying fees are not the same thing, but both must be completed before the sale is final. Were you confused about that?
Elections cost money, and we do pay for them through our taxes. I doubt each person's share is as much as $100 though. I've never known anybody to accidentally kill someone while voting, so I don't think a safety class should be required, but I would like to see more accurate information about elections and candidates made available. That would be paid for with taxes too. There is plenty of ID required before receiving a ballot, so fingerprints are a bit overkill.

 

[BULLDOG]

Are you really this obtuse?

You cannot see the difference between paying the government in order to exercise a right and the purchase of material goods that may be taxed at the time of purchase?

Tell me did you have to go to the town hall request a form for a permit that would allow you to purchase a boat submit a fee for that permit, show proof that you paid for and attended a course on boat safety, go to the police station and pay to get fingerprinted BEFORE you could buy the boat?

No you didn't.

Trying to equate a sales tax with a fee as a prerequisite to exercising a right is beyond ludicrous and no one but a moron would think they are equivalent.

Really? Do you have to take a course, be fingerprinted, and pay a fee if you just look at guns instead of buying?

 

[hadit]

Learn to fight. Don’t be a wuss.

Yeah, that'll help Grandma when she faces a home intruder.

 

[flacaltenn]

So that is your definition of a military weapon? Not an AR15? I'm holding a coffee cup that is not an AR15. Is it a military weapon too?

you're losing focus here. Where is this interrogation going? I'm answering all your questions. You gotta point?

 

[Wyatt earp]

If you want to redefine what I say, why do you even bother reading my posts?

Because youre posting not constitutional opinions?

 

[Wyatt earp]

Well, yes, I do have to pay before I can exercize my right to buy a car. If I buy a car, I can't take possession of it and have it transferred into my name before the sales tax is paid.

You have no constitutional right to buy a car, the only material thing the constitution says you can own is a gun

 

[BULLDOG]

You have no constitutional right to buy a car, the only material thing the constitution says you can own is a gun

Freedom to trade—the freedom to exchange goods and services openly with others—is as fundamental to human well-being as any right guaranteed in the U.S. Constitution. Indeed, the freedom to trade is the foundation of America’s modern economic system that provides historically unprecedented opportunities for individuals to achieve greater economic freedom and prosperity.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Freedom to trade—the freedom to exchange goods and services openly with others—is as fundamental to human well-being as any right guaranteed in the U.S. Constitution. Indeed, the freedom to trade is the foundation of America’s modern economic system that provides historically unprecedented opportunities for individuals to achieve greater economic freedom and prosperity.

Nothing is guaranteed except the 2nd amendment.

 

[BULLDOG]

Nothing is guaranteed except the 2nd amendment.

Lots of crazies would agree with you.

 

[Blues Man]

Don't get your panties in a knot. If you gun nuts want to keep throwing terms around, you need to at least come up with accurate definitions for what you are describing, instead of just spouting crap. You said a military rifle was capable of single shot semiautomatic, select or burst fire semiautomatic and fully automatic firing. I pointed out one example of a military rifle that didn't fit your definition. There are others.

Bullshit.

You're either pretending to be an idiot or you really are an idiot.

I am leaning toward the latter.

And I explained exactly what I meant you're the one who is trying to equate paying a sales tax on a purchase to a fee that needs to be paid before a person can exercise a protected right.

You dodged the question on the issue.

So I'll ask you one more time and to keep it simple for you because you obviously need things to be simple let's limit the question to the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights and to keep it even simpler let's stick to the first 10

So tell me since you think it's Ok for a person to have to pay hundreds of dollars in order to exercise his second amendment rights then do you also think that a person must apply and pay hundreds of dollars each for permits to exercise his First, Third, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh, Eighth, Ninth and Tenth Amendment rights?

 

[Blues Man]

Really? Do you have to take a course, be fingerprinted, and pay a fee if you just look at guns instead of buying?

OBTUSE

The second amendement says KEEP AND BEAR and yes I had to pay before I could KEEP and BEAR

 

[BULLDOG]

Bullshit.

You're either pretending to be an idiot or you really are an idiot.

I am leaning toward the latter.

And I explained exactly what I meant you're the one who is trying to equate paying a sales tax on a purchase to a fee that needs to be paid before a person can exercise a protected right.

You dodged the question on the issue.

So I'll ask you one more time and to keep it simple for you because you obviously need things to be simple let's limit the question to the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights and to keep it even simpler let's stick to the first 10

So tell me since you think it's Ok for a person to have to pay hundreds of dollars in order to exercise his second amendment rights then do you also think that a person must apply and pay hundreds of dollars each for permits to exercise his First, Third, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh, Eighth, Ninth and Tenth Amendment rights?

You think the rights granted in the amendments you mentioned are the only rights we have? All the other rights we have are just as important, even if there isn't a special amendment granting each of them. A right is a right is a right. We can discuss the cost of specific permits if you want to, I think some of them are too high too, but there is no question that permits are perfectly allowable.

You might note that the poll tax was a fee required to vote in federal elections. Congress specifically eliminated that specific fee, but no others. When congress specifically eliminates any or all the rest of the required fees, you might have a point, but that has not happened.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You think the rights granted in the amendments you mentioned are the only rights we have? All the other rights we have are just as important, even if there isn't a special amendment granting each of them. A right is a right is a right. We can discuss the cost of specific permits if you want to, I think some of them are too high too, but there is no question that permits are perfectly allowable.

So a permit you pay for to vote is legal?

 

[BULLDOG]

OBTUSE

The second amendement says KEEP AND BEAR and yes I had to pay before I could KEEP and BEAR

You're changing the goal post again. You're the one who brought up the silly idea of needing a permit just to enter a showroom.