CDZ Two options...the European model of self defense, and the American model of Self defensse.

[2aguy]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

How many times a year in America are guns used to commit crimes?

How many times a year in America are guns used to prevent a crime?

The point is we have a crazy out of control gun culture where even the criminals have no problem getting their hands on guns. In Australia and Canada and England far less people are victims of gun violence as they are here in America.

Face it. If we had tougher gun laws we'd have less dead people in America every year. You could still have hunting guns and guns to protect your home but not every tom dick and harry can get an assault rifle.

I would feel safer in another country despite the fact that so many John Wayne's are running around packin. They don't make me feel safe but all the American rampage shooters do make me feel unsafe.

You can pass all the draconian gun laws you can think of and you still will see no major drop in gun violence.

Do you really think the drug gangs and criminals are going to participate in a gun buy back program or turn their firearms in? Do you really think citizens are going to turn their firearms in knowing the criminals will keep theirs?

Of course you will say you will just send the cops out to confiscate firearms from honest people who have committed no crime. Good luck with that as many counties and states in our nation are gun sanctuaries. I live in a county in Florida that is a gun sanctuary. In such counties the locals will not cooperate with the Feds to confiscate firearms from honest people. They will tell you that goes against the Constitution which they have pledged an oath to defend.

View attachment 500222

States and counties that have passed Second Amendment sanctuary (or other pro-Second Amendment) laws or resolutions. View county names by opening the map and hovering your mouse when using a laptop/desktop. Localities within counties that have adopted such resolutions are not displayed in this map; please see the corresponding Wikipedia article for the full list. Green = County level Blue = State level Purple = Both state and county levels

Second Amendment sanctuary - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do police swear an oath to the Constitution? | USAttorneys.com

Oath. State and local police generally swear an oath to the United States Constitution, as civil service or uniformed service officers, stating: “I, officer name, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and...

police-brutality.usattorneys.com

Omg. I’m talking about implementing policies that will stop gangs from getting guns. You’re not willing because gangs aren’t going to participate in buybacks.

Sorry I don’t have a policy idea that will get all gang members to turn in all their illegal guns. Do you? And so what? So does that mean we shouldn’t pass any common sense gun legislation?

Should we repeal all the common sense gun legislation we have on the books now? Why not? They don’t get gang members to participate in buybacks so why are we bothering?

If we did it your way no gang member would have an illegal gun. There would be no such thing. And every gang kill would be justified under stand your ground laws.

You are wrong.....gangs do participate in gun buybacks...after they use a gun to kill another gang member, they turn the gun in, without any questions...and get gift cards......

What we need to do is keep violent gun offenders, in particular, gang members who use illegal guns, in prison.....

The democrat party keeps giving them bail, no-cash bail, home monitoring....before they go to prison........no matter how many times they are arrested for carrying and even using illegal guns.....

Then, the democrat party plea bargains down the gun charge, making a violent gun crime into a mere drug selling charge, giving them a reduced sentence....and they are out in under 3 years to use illegal guns for crime and murder again.....

Japan locks people up for 15 years...in a Japanese prison vs the comfy American prisons.........and for life if they discharge the weapon.....

They don't get bail, they don't get no cash bail, they don't get home monitoring...and they are not released over and over again despite repeated gun crimes....

Show me a link that guns turned in don’t match a murder. No fucking way. If that was true every murderer would turn in their guns. I’m calling you a liar.

You don't understand.....gun buy backs are no questions asked.....they can turn in dirty guns, and get rid of them....

They don't turn in more because they are using them to shoot other gang members........

and when they steal crap guns from homes...they turn them in for cash and gift cards...

 

[RetiredGySgt]

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly a many. We should do what they are doing.

London does not have a drug-gang industry fueled by Fatherless poor Black communities like the US does. Replicate our inner cities in London and their statistics would be in line with ours.

So you think Americans are just inherently violent people? You might think having so many guns might have something to do with that.

No what i think is that the violence in the inner cities that is the main contributor to our murder rate is at best not seen as important by the governments of those cities and at worst it is actually accepted as some means to an end.

The fact is that the murder rates of just a handful of cities is skewing the rate of the entire country and what's more these pockets of violence with very high murder rates are so small and isolated that an area of just a few square city blocks can have a murder rate that is 10 or 15 times the national average while an adjacent similar sized area in the same city will have a murder rate far less than the national average.

We all know this, the cops know this, the city and state governments know this but for some reason they all choose to ignore it because it's mostly young poor minority males killing other young poor minority males

Exactly......and the problem for Europe? They think that crime is static....that their culture, values and justice system will always keep the monsters at bay.........they are starting to see that this isn't the case.........World War 1 and 2 slowed down Europe when it came to crime.........they are now reaching the point that the U.S. found itself in in the 1950s....as criminals transitioned from knives to guns..........and more and more violence......

We kill 55 people with guns for every 1 person they kill with guns. We should be doing what they are doing.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Then we need to.....

1) get different criminals.....the criminals in Europe have total access to guns...they generally do not use them to commit murder.....robbery, kidnappings, yes....murder, not as much. When they do shoot each other, it is usually below the waist or to the lower part of the body, they don't shoot to kill....

But...

With the immigrants from the 3rd world taking over the European drug trade, they have no respect for Western Values, culture or law enforcement....and they are used to violence in a way Europeans are not...

The violence in Europe is increasing, and the gun of choice for European criminals is the fully automatic military rifle, not hand guns...they also use grenades...

2) We need to get rid of the policies and actions of the democrat party.....the policies of the democrat party create a revolving door for our gun criminals.....they are captured over and over again with illegal guns, for committing violent crimes with guns, and for actually shooting at people and murdering them...then, they are released by democrat party judges, prosecutors and democrat activists who see them as victims, not violent monsters.


Change those two things and you have a point...since almost all of our gun crime and murder is concentrated in areas controlled directly, and totally by our democrat party....

The policies of the democrat party are not tolerated...so far, in Europe....that too is changing as the SJW, BLM, Antifa fascists push to destroy European police the way they have attacked our police...

As the below charts show, Democratic areas (measured by the party that controls the congressional district) are far more likely to experience almost all forms of malicious gun violence than Republican areas. These charts exclude suicides, for which data are not available on a congressional district basis, so it only breaks down the fraction of gun violence that is accidental or confrontational.
--------

A distinct pattern emerged: In Democratic regions of the country, which tend to be cities, people are more likely to be murdered with a gun than they are to shoot themselves to death.

In regions of the country won by Republicans, which tend to be rural areas and small towns, the opposite is true — people are more likely to shoot themselves to death than they are to be murdered with a gun.
----
In the most Democratic regions, gun violence is more often committed against another, crimes that probably generate more news coverage and fear. In the most Republican areas, it is more often committed against oneself, suicides that may not attract as much attention.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...prising-way-gun-violence-is-dividing-america/


And another point.....guns are not our problem.....democrats are our problem....as Americans own and carry guns, our gun crime rate did not go up..it went down....as more Americans own and carry guns, our gun murder rate went down, not up...

Now.....this is important....be brave...

Why is it that when more Americans own and carry guns, our gun murder rate did not go up, but, in fact, it went down....can you answer that direct question?

Over the last 27 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

This did change in 2015....after 28 years of gun murder and gun crime going down, it started to go up...do you know why?

Be brave....answer the question.....

Hint: ( The democrat party, in 2015 under barak obama, began to make war on our police, with the goal to federalise control of local and state police forces.........this led to the Ferguson effect...where the police stopped being pro-active, because the democrat party targeted them for destruction even when they were 100% correct in their actions...)

As always, your cut and paste skills are superior. Too much to bother reading, but impressive anyway.

he asked a simple question, How come from 1994 to 2018 the number of firearms went up while crimes using them went down if your claim that more guns equal more crime?

I don't read long cut and paste posts.

I provided the question answer it.

 

[2aguy]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

How many times a year in America are guns used to commit crimes?

How many times a year in America are guns used to prevent a crime?

The point is we have a crazy out of control gun culture where even the criminals have no problem getting their hands on guns. In Australia and Canada and England far less people are victims of gun violence as they are here in America.

Face it. If we had tougher gun laws we'd have less dead people in America every year. You could still have hunting guns and guns to protect your home but not every tom dick and harry can get an assault rifle.

I would feel safer in another country despite the fact that so many John Wayne's are running around packin. They don't make me feel safe but all the American rampage shooters do make me feel unsafe.

You can pass all the draconian gun laws you can think of and you still will see no major drop in gun violence.

Do you really think the drug gangs and criminals are going to participate in a gun buy back program or turn their firearms in? Do you really think citizens are going to turn their firearms in knowing the criminals will keep theirs?

Of course you will say you will just send the cops out to confiscate firearms from honest people who have committed no crime. Good luck with that as many counties and states in our nation are gun sanctuaries. I live in a county in Florida that is a gun sanctuary. In such counties the locals will not cooperate with the Feds to confiscate firearms from honest people. They will tell you that goes against the Constitution which they have pledged an oath to defend.

View attachment 500222

States and counties that have passed Second Amendment sanctuary (or other pro-Second Amendment) laws or resolutions. View county names by opening the map and hovering your mouse when using a laptop/desktop. Localities within counties that have adopted such resolutions are not displayed in this map; please see the corresponding Wikipedia article for the full list. Green = County level Blue = State level Purple = Both state and county levels

Second Amendment sanctuary - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do police swear an oath to the Constitution? | USAttorneys.com

Oath. State and local police generally swear an oath to the United States Constitution, as civil service or uniformed service officers, stating: “I, officer name, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and...

police-brutality.usattorneys.com

Omg. I’m talking about implementing policies that will stop gangs from getting guns. You’re not willing because gangs aren’t going to participate in buybacks.

Sorry I don’t have a policy idea that will get all gang members to turn in all their illegal guns. Do you? And so what? So does that mean we shouldn’t pass any common sense gun legislation?

Should we repeal all the common sense gun legislation we have on the books now? Why not? They don’t get gang members to participate in buybacks so why are we bothering?

If we did it your way no gang member would have an illegal gun. There would be no such thing. And every gang kill would be justified under stand your ground laws.

You are wrong.....gangs do participate in gun buybacks...after they use a gun to kill another gang member, they turn the gun in, without any questions...and get gift cards......

What we need to do is keep violent gun offenders, in particular, gang members who use illegal guns, in prison.....

The democrat party keeps giving them bail, no-cash bail, home monitoring....before they go to prison........no matter how many times they are arrested for carrying and even using illegal guns.....

Then, the democrat party plea bargains down the gun charge, making a violent gun crime into a mere drug selling charge, giving them a reduced sentence....and they are out in under 3 years to use illegal guns for crime and murder again.....

Japan locks people up for 15 years...in a Japanese prison vs the comfy American prisons.........and for life if they discharge the weapon.....

They don't get bail, they don't get no cash bail, they don't get home monitoring...and they are not released over and over again despite repeated gun crimes....

It’s not democrats. Its our legal system. People on trial have rights do you want to take those away? So the prosecutor settles for a ten year sentence plea rather than go to trial.

And then you republicans don’t want to rehabilitate just punish them, then they come out worse

Wrong...it is the democrat party....I have linked to the stories of their policies and actions over and over again........then people like you complain about "Copy and Paste."

I don't want to take away anyones Rights.....I want to keep known, repeat gun offenders in prison......without bail if they have violent histories so they can't murder witnesses or shoot more people....and without dropping gun charges to get the conviction.....

Here is my plan that actually works...nothing you want actually works...

I support a life sentence on any criminal who uses a gun for an actual gun crime..... and 30 years if a criminal is caught in possession of a gun, even if they are not using it at that moment for crime.

This will dry up gun crime over night. Criminals will stop using guns for robberies, rapes and murders.....and those who do will be gone forever......

Criminals will also stop walking around with guns in their pants......which is the leading cause of random gang shootings in our cities. if they are stopped by police, with a gun in their pants, they are gone for 30 years...they will stop carrying those guns, and random gang violence will end.

You implement this with two other things...

1) No More Bargaining Away the Gun Charge.........it must be against the law to bargain away a gun charge as part of a plea deal....this stops.

2) When a criminal is arrested for any crime, and booked in...they will be read the announcement that any use of a gun in a crime is a life sentence without parole, owning or carrying a gun as a felon is a 30 year sentence without parole....when they are released from custody...the same will be read to them again....when they meet their parole officer it will be read to them again.....the U.S. government will also buy and send out Public announcements on this policy on t.v. radio. and cable......

That is how you stop gun crime over night.

Mass shooters are different..... but with only 93 people killed in mass public shootings in 2018, they are not the major problem in gun crime.

The value in my plan......it actually targets the individuals actually using guns to commit crimes and murder people....

It does not require new background check laws, it does not require gun licensing, licensing gun owners, gun registration, new taxes, fees or regulations on guns...

By making gun crime a life sentence, criminals will stop using guns for crime and will stop carrying guns around for protection.....

Also....a nurse, with a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania, to New Jersey, will not be considered a gun criminal.....that will end. Criminals with a record of crime, caught with a gun will get 30 years, no deals.....and criminals who use guns for actual crime...robbing the local store, rape, robbery, murder.....life without parole...

This, of course, eliminates the need for more gun control laws...we can already do this.....

Mass shooters


1) end gun free zones

2) get the media to stop covering mass shootings like it is the Oscars.....

3) We are already seeing this...get people who know these nuts to report these nuts....

4) Make sure the police who know these nuts arrest these nuts when they have the chance so they will pop on background checks....

What does each do to stop mass shooters....

1) keeps shooters from targeting people, since they target gun free zones.

2) The media not covering it like they are the criminal oscars deters copycats...just like they stopped covering teen suicides to stop the copycat effect

3) The only way to stop mass shooters, since they commit no other crime, is for family, coworkers and neighbors to report their violent behavior....the Odessa shooter should have felonies for the crimes he was committing but they didn't report his shooting his weapon from his front porch....

4) The Parkland shooter had 33 contacts with police and numerous contacts with police at his school.....due to Obama's "Promise Program" the police never arrested him for the felonies he committed....so he didn't pop on the background check..

 

[2aguy]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

How many times a year in America are guns used to commit crimes?

How many times a year in America are guns used to prevent a crime?

The point is we have a crazy out of control gun culture where even the criminals have no problem getting their hands on guns. In Australia and Canada and England far less people are victims of gun violence as they are here in America.

Face it. If we had tougher gun laws we'd have less dead people in America every year. You could still have hunting guns and guns to protect your home but not every tom dick and harry can get an assault rifle.

I would feel safer in another country despite the fact that so many John Wayne's are running around packin. They don't make me feel safe but all the American rampage shooters do make me feel unsafe.

You can pass all the draconian gun laws you can think of and you still will see no major drop in gun violence.

Do you really think the drug gangs and criminals are going to participate in a gun buy back program or turn their firearms in? Do you really think citizens are going to turn their firearms in knowing the criminals will keep theirs?

Of course you will say you will just send the cops out to confiscate firearms from honest people who have committed no crime. Good luck with that as many counties and states in our nation are gun sanctuaries. I live in a county in Florida that is a gun sanctuary. In such counties the locals will not cooperate with the Feds to confiscate firearms from honest people. They will tell you that goes against the Constitution which they have pledged an oath to defend.

View attachment 500222

States and counties that have passed Second Amendment sanctuary (or other pro-Second Amendment) laws or resolutions. View county names by opening the map and hovering your mouse when using a laptop/desktop. Localities within counties that have adopted such resolutions are not displayed in this map; please see the corresponding Wikipedia article for the full list. Green = County level Blue = State level Purple = Both state and county levels

Second Amendment sanctuary - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do police swear an oath to the Constitution? | USAttorneys.com

Oath. State and local police generally swear an oath to the United States Constitution, as civil service or uniformed service officers, stating: “I, officer name, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and...

police-brutality.usattorneys.com

Omg. I’m talking about implementing policies that will stop gangs from getting guns. You’re not willing because gangs aren’t going to participate in buybacks.

Sorry I don’t have a policy idea that will get all gang members to turn in all their illegal guns. Do you? And so what? So does that mean we shouldn’t pass any common sense gun legislation?

Should we repeal all the common sense gun legislation we have on the books now? Why not? They don’t get gang members to participate in buybacks so why are we bothering?

If we did it your way no gang member would have an illegal gun. There would be no such thing. And every gang kill would be justified under stand your ground laws.

You are wrong.....gangs do participate in gun buybacks...after they use a gun to kill another gang member, they turn the gun in, without any questions...and get gift cards......

What we need to do is keep violent gun offenders, in particular, gang members who use illegal guns, in prison.....

The democrat party keeps giving them bail, no-cash bail, home monitoring....before they go to prison........no matter how many times they are arrested for carrying and even using illegal guns.....

Then, the democrat party plea bargains down the gun charge, making a violent gun crime into a mere drug selling charge, giving them a reduced sentence....and they are out in under 3 years to use illegal guns for crime and murder again.....

Japan locks people up for 15 years...in a Japanese prison vs the comfy American prisons.........and for life if they discharge the weapon.....

They don't get bail, they don't get no cash bail, they don't get home monitoring...and they are not released over and over again despite repeated gun crimes....

It’s not democrats. Its our legal system. People on trial have rights do you want to take those away? So the prosecutor settles for a ten year sentence plea rather than go to trial.

And then you republicans don’t want to rehabilitate just punish them, then they come out worse

It's democrats...

California



“If a gun is used during a violent felony offense – such as a robbery – California’s ‘10-20-Life’ gun enhancement applies,” it said. “A 10-year enhancement is available for any use of a gun, which is increased to 20 years if the gun is discharged, and to 25-to-life if great bodily injury or death occurs.”

AB 1509, as the bill is known, would eliminate the use of most gun enhancements and significantly reduce the others, modifying them from 10-20-life to 1-2-3 years.



California May Soften Gun Crime Laws, Citing Impact On People Of Color





California...



California on Saturday will begin increasing early release credits for about 76,000 inmates, including tens of thousands who were convicted of violent crimes, as the state continues to reduce its prison population.

The Associated Press reported that of the 76,000 who will be eligible for early release, some 63,000 were convicted of violent crimes. They will now be eligible to obtain good behavior credits that will “shorten their sentences by one-third instead of the one-fifth that had been in place since 2017,” the outlet reported. That number includes 20,000 inmates who were sentenced to life sentences with the possibility of parole.

------

“In essence, the bill decriminalizes the use of a firearm in California for the most severe, most violent felonies,” Siddall told The Daily Wire. “What this bill would do is encourage violent criminals to use guns during their crime because the penalty is so insignificant.”

Its passage would be retroactive, meaning some prisoners currently incarcerated on firearm enhancement charges could be released. However, Lee’s office said the bill limits retroactivity based on the crime, and not everyone would be eligible for resentencing.

According to the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, approximately 40,000 inmates in custody, or about 40% of the prison population, have a firearm enhancement attached to their sentences.



California Makes 76,000 Inmates, Including Violent And Repeat Felons, Eligible For Early Release In Push To Reduce Prison Population

Chicago...



A suburban man who’s accused of running onto the field during a White Sox game Friday evening got a good taste of Chicago’s judicial system priorities when a judge ordered him held on a higher bail than some accused gun offenders received during the same felony bond court session.
-----
Navarro on Saturday ordered 19-year-old Liam Wolfer held in lieu of $5,000 bail on a charge of criminal trespass to a place of public amusement after prosecutors said the Plainfield resident dodged security officers while dashing from one foul pole to the other as the South Siders faced the Texas Rangers.
----

Wolfer sounds like a jerk, and DUI is an offense that can kill innocents. But in this instance, for disrupting a ball game, why does his offense merit higher bail than these people on the same day in the same courtroom:

During the same hearing, Navarro released no fewer than three men accused of felony illegal gun possession on their own recognizance — no money down, according to court records.

Or the same bail as:

Navarro allowed three other alleged gun offenders to go home for the same amount Wolfer had to pay.

These bail decisions have real consequences:

Records maintained by CWBChicago show that at least 17 people have been charged with murder, attempted murder, or shooting someone while out of jail on affordable bail amounts set by Navarro since 2019. That’s far more than any of the other five judges who handle Chicago’s felony bond court hearings.

Man who ran across field during Chicago White Sox game held on higher bail than people charged with illegal gun possession





Attacking the police

Last year, the United States tallied more than 20,000 murders — the highest total since 1995 and 4,000 more than in 2019. Preliminary FBI data for 2020 points to a 25% surge in murders — the largest single year increase since the agency began publishing uniform data in 1960.

Policing is to blame, or rather the lack of it.

In the wake of the May and June unrest, public officials’ decisions and growing hostility toward policing left law enforcement demoralized, debilitated and, in some cases, defunded. Even the most dedicated officers who now face a greater risk of being sued, fired or prosecuted for doing their job feel pressure to pull back.

The message from a new wave of progressive prosecutors is clear: making arrests for drug and weapons crimes that will go unprosecuted exposes officers to the risk of disciplinary action, lawsuits and criminal prosecution. To mitigate that risk, police take a more passive approach.

Data shows a precipitous decline in law enforcement activity from last June through this February. We found that across the 10 major cities we studied, deadly violence rose as engaged policing fell. Cities that cut (or threaten to) police budgets often saw the largest drops in active policing and the increases in homicide.





New york

In December 2020, roughly 20 New York legislators pushed for a package they dubbed “Justice Roadmap 2021,” which included the so-called “Elder Parole Bill,” which would require that “incarcerated New Yorkers over age 55 who have served 15 or more consecutive years be considered for parole regardless of their crime or sentence.”

That same month, it was reported that “New York City has released almost all its inmates arrested on gun charges this year, which police say has led to the city’s soaring rates of gun crime.”

It turns out that policies have consequences. Specifically, New York’s strategy of releasing violent offenders has violent consequences.
-------
The Daily Wire reported on March 31 that a man arrested for a brutal attack against an Asian woman in Manhattan “was reportedly out on parole for stabbing his own mother to death in 2002.”

“Elliot was charged with murder in 2002 for stabbing his mother three times in the chest with a kitchen knife. The attack occurred in front of Elliot’s 5-year-old sister, sources told [the New York Post]. His mother died two days later,” the report continued.

“Elliot was convicted of murder and sentenced to 15 years-to-life in prison. He was twice denied parole but was released on a lifetime parole in 2019,” The Daily Wire added.
--------
Just days ago, the New York Post reported that “[a] knife-wielding man on parole for attempted murder randomly attacked a Hassidic couple walking with their 1-year-old in Lower Manhattan on Wednesday — slashing all three family members, cops and police sources said.”

“The man was released from jail last month. He spent several years behind bars after pleading guilty to attempted murder tied to a violent August 2011 robbery on the Upper East Side, according to the sources,” the New York Post added.
------------

In February 2021, the New York Post reported that “[a] parolee allegedly dragged a woman into the bushes in Prospect Park and tried to sexually assault the 33-year-old — but she fought him off and he was soon arrested thanks to a witness who followed him and called 911.”

“Police quickly caught up with the man, who cops identified as Carlis Clarke, after finding video surveillance of him leaving the building. He was charged with criminal sexual act, robbery, and unlawful imprisonment, according to the NYPD,” the New York Post continued.

Clarke was released from prison just days earlier, having served 16 months of a two-year sentence for a weapons conviction, according to prison records.



Why violent crime surged after police across America retreated

New York Releases Violent Offenders Who Then Commit More Violence



New York

As the New York Post reports, Wilson already has five open gun-related cases against him, including an armed robbery charge, but none of those cases resulted in Wilson heading to jail.



Wilson ended up in cuffs today, but just last week another Brooklyn judge released Wilson after his initial arrest, indicating that the bail reform efforts in New York State tied his hands.

Office of Court Administration spokesman Lucian Chalfen defended the judge’s decision. “Based on the facts of the case in front of him, indicating that this defendant was not the individual who possessed the gun, the judge, with the consent of the District Attorney, determined that a release on his own recognizance was the least restrictive form of bail as required by law,” Chalfen said.

Keep in mind here; Wilson hasn’t just been charged with simple possession of a firearm without a license. Back in 2016 Wilson faced murder charges as a juvenile, though the Post notes that the outcome of that case has been sealed. Since then Wilson has allegedly been involved in a number of other violent crimes.

On the afternoon of June 4 last year, in front of a shuttered storefront in Jamaica, Queens, Wilson allegedly approached another man with a silver .38-caliber pistol loaded with two rounds and barked, “Don’t move!” But the alleged robbery was thwarted when cops arrived.
In addition to the firearm, he allegedly had 33 small blue baggies of cocaine stuffed inside a tennis ball in his sweatshirt pocket, according to the complaint.
He was charged with gun possession, attempted armed robbery, drug possession and other raps — but was out six days later after posting $25,000 bail.
A month later, Wilson’s alleged crime spree resumed on July 15, 2020, when a pair of women lured two men to the Cresthaven Inn at JFK for what they thought would be a good time.
Instead, Wilson and two pals allegedly burst into the room with guns trained on the men. One of Wilson’s unapprehended cohorts whacked one of the victims in the head with a firearm, then swiped his iPhone, Rolex, the keys to his white Mercedes and $600 in cash.
19-Year Old New Yorker Arrested For Fifth Gun-Related Crime

 

[2aguy]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

How many times a year in America are guns used to commit crimes?

How many times a year in America are guns used to prevent a crime?

The point is we have a crazy out of control gun culture where even the criminals have no problem getting their hands on guns. In Australia and Canada and England far less people are victims of gun violence as they are here in America.

Face it. If we had tougher gun laws we'd have less dead people in America every year. You could still have hunting guns and guns to protect your home but not every tom dick and harry can get an assault rifle.

I would feel safer in another country despite the fact that so many John Wayne's are running around packin. They don't make me feel safe but all the American rampage shooters do make me feel unsafe.

You can pass all the draconian gun laws you can think of and you still will see no major drop in gun violence.

Do you really think the drug gangs and criminals are going to participate in a gun buy back program or turn their firearms in? Do you really think citizens are going to turn their firearms in knowing the criminals will keep theirs?

Of course you will say you will just send the cops out to confiscate firearms from honest people who have committed no crime. Good luck with that as many counties and states in our nation are gun sanctuaries. I live in a county in Florida that is a gun sanctuary. In such counties the locals will not cooperate with the Feds to confiscate firearms from honest people. They will tell you that goes against the Constitution which they have pledged an oath to defend.

View attachment 500222

States and counties that have passed Second Amendment sanctuary (or other pro-Second Amendment) laws or resolutions. View county names by opening the map and hovering your mouse when using a laptop/desktop. Localities within counties that have adopted such resolutions are not displayed in this map; please see the corresponding Wikipedia article for the full list. Green = County level Blue = State level Purple = Both state and county levels

Second Amendment sanctuary - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do police swear an oath to the Constitution? | USAttorneys.com

Oath. State and local police generally swear an oath to the United States Constitution, as civil service or uniformed service officers, stating: “I, officer name, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and...

police-brutality.usattorneys.com

Omg. I’m talking about implementing policies that will stop gangs from getting guns. You’re not willing because gangs aren’t going to participate in buybacks.

Sorry I don’t have a policy idea that will get all gang members to turn in all their illegal guns. Do you? And so what? So does that mean we shouldn’t pass any common sense gun legislation?

Should we repeal all the common sense gun legislation we have on the books now? Why not? They don’t get gang members to participate in buybacks so why are we bothering?

If we did it your way no gang member would have an illegal gun. There would be no such thing. And every gang kill would be justified under stand your ground laws.

You are wrong.....gangs do participate in gun buybacks...after they use a gun to kill another gang member, they turn the gun in, without any questions...and get gift cards......

What we need to do is keep violent gun offenders, in particular, gang members who use illegal guns, in prison.....

The democrat party keeps giving them bail, no-cash bail, home monitoring....before they go to prison........no matter how many times they are arrested for carrying and even using illegal guns.....

Then, the democrat party plea bargains down the gun charge, making a violent gun crime into a mere drug selling charge, giving them a reduced sentence....and they are out in under 3 years to use illegal guns for crime and murder again.....

Japan locks people up for 15 years...in a Japanese prison vs the comfy American prisons.........and for life if they discharge the weapon.....

They don't get bail, they don't get no cash bail, they don't get home monitoring...and they are not released over and over again despite repeated gun crimes....

It’s not democrats. Its our legal system. People on trial have rights do you want to take those away? So the prosecutor settles for a ten year sentence plea rather than go to trial.

And then you republicans don’t want to rehabilitate just punish them, then they come out worse

It's democrats...part 2...

Man on probation for one gun case and on bail for another gun case had a gun at Roosevelt CTA station, prosecutors say | CWB Chicago


Chicago....

Chicago police on Tuesday arrested Clarence Hebron, a convicted murderer who has been wanted in connection with a double-slaying in suburban Riverdale in November. Hebron was out of jail on “affordable bail” for reckless homicide and two separate counts of armed habitual criminal when police said he killed his 26-year-old girlfriend, Jessica Beal, and her 27-year-old brother, Damien, on November 27.

---

His extensive criminal background includes a 2007 conviction for second-degree murder in which he and his cousin fatally shot a man, D’Antignac said Wednesday.
----
At the time of the Beals’ murders, Hebron was awaiting trial for allegedly killing a woman with his car as he fled from police in April 2019. At the time of that incident, he was already on bail for two separate counts of Class X armed habitual criminal, according to court records.

Cops arrest man wanted for double-murder while on "affordable bail" for reckless homicide and 2 gun cases | CWB Chicago



Chicago..

A Chicago man shot and killed a 16-year-old rival gang member over a haircut last week while on affordable bail for discharging a handgun, prosecutors said.

Jesus Moro, 21, is the eighth person charged with killing or shooting someone in Chicago this year while on bail for other serious felonies.

Prosecutors said 16-year-old Julian Castillo, a member of the Two Six street gang, was visiting a man on the first floor of a home in Chicago Lawn last Friday evening while Moro, a Latin King gang member, was on the second floor.

When the man went upstairs to get a glass of water, Moro’s fellow Latin King member, 20-year-old Sergio Rodriguez, began to ask him about his haircut and said the cut was a Two Six style, Assistant State’s Attorney Angel Eggleston said.
-----
On July 3, police arrested Moro after CPD surveillance cameras recorded him firing a handgun outside John Spry Elementary School in Little Village, according to court records. In his arrest report, cops called Moro “a highly active Latin King gang member.”

Judge David Navarro ordered Moro held in lieu of $100,000 the next day, but Judge LeRoy Martin Jr cut that in half a few days later, and Moro went home by posting a $5,000 deposit bond, records show.
------

Moro went to prison for a year following a nearly identical incident in October 2017. In that case, police surveillance cameras recorded footage of Moro firing a gun at a passing car just a block away from Spry Elementary, according to CPD records. Police allegedly recovered a gun from Moro’s bedroom after that incident and he admitted to “testing the gun.”

On Monday, Moro found himself in front of Judge Navarro again on the new murder charges. Navarro ordered him held without bail for Castillo’s slaying and held without bail for violating terms of bail in his pending reckless discharge case.

Rodriguez, who received an 18-month prison sentence for reckless discharge of a firearm in 2019, was also ordered held without bail.

#8: “Highly active” gang member charged with killing rival over haircut — while on affordable bail | CWB Chicago



New york....



When asked if the NYPD would bring back its plain-clothes unit, the police commissioner said making gun arrests is not the problem right now as people are getting arrested with guns and are “walking right out the courtroom” with no consequences.

NYPD commissioner talks subway policing, increase in gun violence





Chicago

Chicago has Wild West levels of homicide.

(Worse, in fact; the criminality and violence of the ungoverned West has been greatly exaggerated, and some of those old cow towns had lower per capita crime rates back when they had no formal government than they do today.)

Do you know what kind of crime illegal possession of a firearm is in the state of Illinois?

It is a misdemeanor.

A 2014 study conducted by the Chicago Sun-Times found that in most cases, Cook County judges handed down the minimum sentence for gun possession, and in most cases, the criminals ended up serving far less than that, doing only a few months.

Those charged with simple possession had an average of four prior arrests; those charged with the more serious crime of being a felon in possession of a firearm had an average of ten previous arrests.

Ten arrests, and the eleventh is for a gun-related crime.

One wonders how many undetected crimes are covered by such criminal careers.

Many in Illinois have argued that, given the state of crime there, stiffer sentences are warranted.

A bill was introduced to that end, and it was opposed by Democrats who argued that stiffer sentences for those actually committing crimes with guns would “unfairly target African-Americans,” as the Sun-Times put it.

The NRA, to its discredit, opposed that bill, too, arguing that the penalties for simple possession in absence of other criminal activity were too stiff.

But that’s an argument for liberalizing Illinois gun laws, not for forgoing the punishment of criminals.

The NRA did support harsher punishment for felons in possession of firearms, and for the use of firearms in crimes. Democrats have generally opposed them.




Chicago....

Felon charged with shooting Chicago police officers has decade-long history of drug and gun crimes

CHICAGO (WLS) -- Lovelle Jordan was on parole when Chicago police took him into custody. Before Thursday's gunfight with officers, the 25-year-old had spent about a third of his life in the criminal justice system, much of that time behind bars.



It was just April 10 of this year at the Pinckneyville state prison in Southern Illinois that Lovelle Jordan was freed on parole after serving the required 50-percent of a five year sentence for gun possession by a felon.


"I think we need to do a better job of holding gun offenders accountable," Chicago Police Chief of Detectives Brendan Deenihan said at a press conference Friday morning.



-2012: heroin and cocaine possession

--2015: drug possession

--2016: drug possession, aggravated assault and fleeing police

--2017: caught with a gun and convicted as an "armed habitual criminal"



"He was on electronic monitoring until June and then that was removed and now a month later he's armed with a gun going into a stolen car with officers 5 feet away from him which leads to him shooting officers," said Chief Deenihan. "They don't want these offenders released back into their neighborhoods with guns. This is a convicted felon on parole, just gets off EM and he's got a gun on him. Not only does he have a gun on him, he walks right in front of officers to get in a stolen vehicle because he thinks he's going to be able to be that quick to get away.

 

[2aguy]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

How many times a year in America are guns used to commit crimes?

How many times a year in America are guns used to prevent a crime?

The point is we have a crazy out of control gun culture where even the criminals have no problem getting their hands on guns. In Australia and Canada and England far less people are victims of gun violence as they are here in America.

Face it. If we had tougher gun laws we'd have less dead people in America every year. You could still have hunting guns and guns to protect your home but not every tom dick and harry can get an assault rifle.

I would feel safer in another country despite the fact that so many John Wayne's are running around packin. They don't make me feel safe but all the American rampage shooters do make me feel unsafe.

You can pass all the draconian gun laws you can think of and you still will see no major drop in gun violence.

Do you really think the drug gangs and criminals are going to participate in a gun buy back program or turn their firearms in? Do you really think citizens are going to turn their firearms in knowing the criminals will keep theirs?

Of course you will say you will just send the cops out to confiscate firearms from honest people who have committed no crime. Good luck with that as many counties and states in our nation are gun sanctuaries. I live in a county in Florida that is a gun sanctuary. In such counties the locals will not cooperate with the Feds to confiscate firearms from honest people. They will tell you that goes against the Constitution which they have pledged an oath to defend.

View attachment 500222

States and counties that have passed Second Amendment sanctuary (or other pro-Second Amendment) laws or resolutions. View county names by opening the map and hovering your mouse when using a laptop/desktop. Localities within counties that have adopted such resolutions are not displayed in this map; please see the corresponding Wikipedia article for the full list. Green = County level Blue = State level Purple = Both state and county levels

Second Amendment sanctuary - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do police swear an oath to the Constitution? | USAttorneys.com

Oath. State and local police generally swear an oath to the United States Constitution, as civil service or uniformed service officers, stating: “I, officer name, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and...

police-brutality.usattorneys.com

Omg. I’m talking about implementing policies that will stop gangs from getting guns. You’re not willing because gangs aren’t going to participate in buybacks.

Sorry I don’t have a policy idea that will get all gang members to turn in all their illegal guns. Do you? And so what? So does that mean we shouldn’t pass any common sense gun legislation?

Should we repeal all the common sense gun legislation we have on the books now? Why not? They don’t get gang members to participate in buybacks so why are we bothering?

If we did it your way no gang member would have an illegal gun. There would be no such thing. And every gang kill would be justified under stand your ground laws.

You are wrong.....gangs do participate in gun buybacks...after they use a gun to kill another gang member, they turn the gun in, without any questions...and get gift cards......

What we need to do is keep violent gun offenders, in particular, gang members who use illegal guns, in prison.....

The democrat party keeps giving them bail, no-cash bail, home monitoring....before they go to prison........no matter how many times they are arrested for carrying and even using illegal guns.....

Then, the democrat party plea bargains down the gun charge, making a violent gun crime into a mere drug selling charge, giving them a reduced sentence....and they are out in under 3 years to use illegal guns for crime and murder again.....

Japan locks people up for 15 years...in a Japanese prison vs the comfy American prisons.........and for life if they discharge the weapon.....

They don't get bail, they don't get no cash bail, they don't get home monitoring...and they are not released over and over again despite repeated gun crimes....

It’s not democrats. Its our legal system. People on trial have rights do you want to take those away? So the prosecutor settles for a ten year sentence plea rather than go to trial.

And then you republicans don’t want to rehabilitate just punish them, then they come out worse

Federal democrat...

Obama Continues His Crusade against a Criminal-Justice System He Derides as Racist | National Review

President Barack Obama commuted the sentences of 214 federal prisoners yesterday, part of his ongoing crusade against a criminal-justice system he regularly declares racist and draconian. The White House trumpeted the fact that this was the largest one-day grant of clemency since 1900. Some of the prisoners will be released now; others will have to stay in prison a while longer for more drug rehabilitation.

The vast majority of prisoners exemplify the so-called nonviolent-drug-offender category, a primary focus of “criminal-justice reform” advocates. But a search of the commutation database comes up with 156 hits for “firearms” (some of those hits are multiple counts for the same offender).
------

Many of the commuttees possessed stolen firearms or firearms with their serial numbers obliterated. Some were in violation of National Firearms Registration, which can mean possession of a federally prohibited weapon, such as a machine gun, silencer, or sawed-off shotgun. We don’t know how many guns the offenders actually had; a commuttee during a previous batch of commutations had 40.
==============

 

[2aguy]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

How many times a year in America are guns used to commit crimes?

How many times a year in America are guns used to prevent a crime?

The point is we have a crazy out of control gun culture where even the criminals have no problem getting their hands on guns. In Australia and Canada and England far less people are victims of gun violence as they are here in America.

Face it. If we had tougher gun laws we'd have less dead people in America every year. You could still have hunting guns and guns to protect your home but not every tom dick and harry can get an assault rifle.

I would feel safer in another country despite the fact that so many John Wayne's are running around packin. They don't make me feel safe but all the American rampage shooters do make me feel unsafe.

You can pass all the draconian gun laws you can think of and you still will see no major drop in gun violence.

Do you really think the drug gangs and criminals are going to participate in a gun buy back program or turn their firearms in? Do you really think citizens are going to turn their firearms in knowing the criminals will keep theirs?

Of course you will say you will just send the cops out to confiscate firearms from honest people who have committed no crime. Good luck with that as many counties and states in our nation are gun sanctuaries. I live in a county in Florida that is a gun sanctuary. In such counties the locals will not cooperate with the Feds to confiscate firearms from honest people. They will tell you that goes against the Constitution which they have pledged an oath to defend.

View attachment 500222

States and counties that have passed Second Amendment sanctuary (or other pro-Second Amendment) laws or resolutions. View county names by opening the map and hovering your mouse when using a laptop/desktop. Localities within counties that have adopted such resolutions are not displayed in this map; please see the corresponding Wikipedia article for the full list. Green = County level Blue = State level Purple = Both state and county levels

Second Amendment sanctuary - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do police swear an oath to the Constitution? | USAttorneys.com

Oath. State and local police generally swear an oath to the United States Constitution, as civil service or uniformed service officers, stating: “I, officer name, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and...

police-brutality.usattorneys.com

Omg. I’m talking about implementing policies that will stop gangs from getting guns. You’re not willing because gangs aren’t going to participate in buybacks.

Sorry I don’t have a policy idea that will get all gang members to turn in all their illegal guns. Do you? And so what? So does that mean we shouldn’t pass any common sense gun legislation?

Should we repeal all the common sense gun legislation we have on the books now? Why not? They don’t get gang members to participate in buybacks so why are we bothering?

If we did it your way no gang member would have an illegal gun. There would be no such thing. And every gang kill would be justified under stand your ground laws.

You are wrong.....gangs do participate in gun buybacks...after they use a gun to kill another gang member, they turn the gun in, without any questions...and get gift cards......

What we need to do is keep violent gun offenders, in particular, gang members who use illegal guns, in prison.....

The democrat party keeps giving them bail, no-cash bail, home monitoring....before they go to prison........no matter how many times they are arrested for carrying and even using illegal guns.....

Then, the democrat party plea bargains down the gun charge, making a violent gun crime into a mere drug selling charge, giving them a reduced sentence....and they are out in under 3 years to use illegal guns for crime and murder again.....

Japan locks people up for 15 years...in a Japanese prison vs the comfy American prisons.........and for life if they discharge the weapon.....

They don't get bail, they don't get no cash bail, they don't get home monitoring...and they are not released over and over again despite repeated gun crimes....

It’s not democrats. Its our legal system. People on trial have rights do you want to take those away? So the prosecutor settles for a ten year sentence plea rather than go to trial.

And then you republicans don’t want to rehabilitate just punish them, then they come out worse

It is democrats....

Baltimore Democrats don't want Larry Hogan to rein in gun violence

Citing their opposition to mandatory minimum sentences, Democrats in the Maryland General Assembly say they are unlikely to pass Gov. Larry Hogan’s top priority this session ― the Violent Firearms Offender Act ― infuriating the governor who alleges lawmakers aren’t taking shootings in Baltimore seriously.

In an interview with The Baltimore Sun on Wednesday, Hogan argued that lawmakers who don’t support his legislation are out of touch with the views of most Marylanders and should step down from their leadership posts. On a table in his office at the State House, he spread out his internal polling results that show residents overwhelmingly want “tougher sentences for violent offenders who commit crimes with guns.”

Democrats in the Assembly are saying that bill won’t even make it out of the Judicial Proceedings Committee, so there won’t be a chance of a full floor vote or debate. Their objections are based on the removal of judicial discretion for a number of gun crimes in favor of mandatory minimum sentences. But judicial discretion is a large part of the reason the city is dealing with a murder rate that’s worse than you would find in some war zones.

The Democrats are also arguing that the city of Baltimore already passed tougher gun laws two years ago, but they’ve done nothing to stem the violence.

That’s a disingenuous argument, however, because the new law only applied in certain parts of the city and provided only one year in jail for illegal possession of a firearm. That was an improvement over the previous average of six months (!) but it’s still a laughably short stretch for most of the hardened gang members.

The same Democrats are arguing that what Baltimore really needs is better enforcement of existing laws. They note that police only made 20,000 arrests in 2019 compared to an annual average of 100,000 when Martin O’Malley was the mayor. Also, the homicide clearance rate has fallen to just 32%. But why not do both?

The Baltimore PD released data showing that the average homicide suspect arrested in Baltimore has eight previous arrests.

They don’t have the resources to closely monitor all of the violent criminals who are out on parole, so the same shooters wind up being arrested over and over again.

They believe that fewer than 100 gang members are responsible for the lion’s share of the murders in the city, but they can’t keep them off the streets.

Virginia

VA Dems Make It Clear: It's About Guns, Not Crime

Virginia Democrats on Thursday evening killed a bill that would have done more to reduce violent crime in the state’s hardest hit cities than any of Gov. Ralph Northam’s proposals, making it clear that their agenda isn’t about saving lives, but restricting rights.

HB1617, authored by Republican Del. Jason Miyares, a former prosecutor, would have provided grant money to cities in order to implement two programs; Project Ceasefire and Project Exile.


The two programs work in conjunction with each other, both targeting the cities most violent and prolific offenders. Those individuals are given a choice. They can stop shooting, in which case they can work with the Ceasefire folks to help put their life on the right path, whether it’s through a GED program, job training, an apprenticeship, and the like. Or, if they keep shooting, they’ll be dealing with the men and women in Project Exile, and their cases are going to be referred to federal court where they’ll be facing long prison sentences without the possibility of early release.

“You’re going to stop shooting. We’ll help you if you let us, but we’ll make you if we have to.” That’s the message and the strategy behind these programs and it works, as has been detailed by researchers like David Kennedy, who has helped implement the strategy in many cities over the past twenty years. It works because it targets the people who are actually committing violent crimes. In many cases, these most likely to offend are also the most likely to be victimized. They’re responsible for a disproportionate amount of crime and tragedy in the communities they live and prey upon. But many of them are not beyond redemption, and lives have not only been saved but changed by these efforts.

This is the bill that Democrats killed, while passing bills to ration handgun purchases, limit firearms training, establish red flag laws, and even allow localities to pass their own gun control laws. They want cities across the state to be able to put useless, ineffective, and unconstitutional laws on the books, while preventing them from putting proven and effective programs in place that don’t require any new legislation beyond establishing a funding mechanism.

This is shameful. I’m not being hyperbolic when I say that I believe this bill, had it been enacted into law, would have saved more lives than all of Gov. Northam’s gun bills put together, and Democrats killed it in committee. This is not common sense. In fact, it makes no sense, given the fact that the Project Ceasefire model has support from a lot of liberal politicians.

 

[2aguy]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

How many times a year in America are guns used to commit crimes?

How many times a year in America are guns used to prevent a crime?

The point is we have a crazy out of control gun culture where even the criminals have no problem getting their hands on guns. In Australia and Canada and England far less people are victims of gun violence as they are here in America.

Face it. If we had tougher gun laws we'd have less dead people in America every year. You could still have hunting guns and guns to protect your home but not every tom dick and harry can get an assault rifle.

I would feel safer in another country despite the fact that so many John Wayne's are running around packin. They don't make me feel safe but all the American rampage shooters do make me feel unsafe.

You can pass all the draconian gun laws you can think of and you still will see no major drop in gun violence.

Do you really think the drug gangs and criminals are going to participate in a gun buy back program or turn their firearms in? Do you really think citizens are going to turn their firearms in knowing the criminals will keep theirs?

Of course you will say you will just send the cops out to confiscate firearms from honest people who have committed no crime. Good luck with that as many counties and states in our nation are gun sanctuaries. I live in a county in Florida that is a gun sanctuary. In such counties the locals will not cooperate with the Feds to confiscate firearms from honest people. They will tell you that goes against the Constitution which they have pledged an oath to defend.

View attachment 500222

States and counties that have passed Second Amendment sanctuary (or other pro-Second Amendment) laws or resolutions. View county names by opening the map and hovering your mouse when using a laptop/desktop. Localities within counties that have adopted such resolutions are not displayed in this map; please see the corresponding Wikipedia article for the full list. Green = County level Blue = State level Purple = Both state and county levels

Second Amendment sanctuary - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do police swear an oath to the Constitution? | USAttorneys.com

Oath. State and local police generally swear an oath to the United States Constitution, as civil service or uniformed service officers, stating: “I, officer name, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and...

police-brutality.usattorneys.com

Omg. I’m talking about implementing policies that will stop gangs from getting guns. You’re not willing because gangs aren’t going to participate in buybacks.

Sorry I don’t have a policy idea that will get all gang members to turn in all their illegal guns. Do you? And so what? So does that mean we shouldn’t pass any common sense gun legislation?

Should we repeal all the common sense gun legislation we have on the books now? Why not? They don’t get gang members to participate in buybacks so why are we bothering?

If we did it your way no gang member would have an illegal gun. There would be no such thing. And every gang kill would be justified under stand your ground laws.

You are wrong.....gangs do participate in gun buybacks...after they use a gun to kill another gang member, they turn the gun in, without any questions...and get gift cards......

What we need to do is keep violent gun offenders, in particular, gang members who use illegal guns, in prison.....

The democrat party keeps giving them bail, no-cash bail, home monitoring....before they go to prison........no matter how many times they are arrested for carrying and even using illegal guns.....

Then, the democrat party plea bargains down the gun charge, making a violent gun crime into a mere drug selling charge, giving them a reduced sentence....and they are out in under 3 years to use illegal guns for crime and murder again.....

Japan locks people up for 15 years...in a Japanese prison vs the comfy American prisons.........and for life if they discharge the weapon.....

They don't get bail, they don't get no cash bail, they don't get home monitoring...and they are not released over and over again despite repeated gun crimes....

It’s not democrats. Its our legal system. People on trial have rights do you want to take those away? So the prosecutor settles for a ten year sentence plea rather than go to trial.

And then you republicans don’t want to rehabilitate just punish them, then they come out worse

It's democrats.......the democrats want to get rid of bail....

Court records reveal even more men charged with murder, shootings while free on "affordable bail"

It’s been two months since Cook County Chief Judge Timothy Evans said, “it’s not by magic that we haven’t had any horrible incidents occur using this new [affordable bail] system,” during budget hearings on Nov. 4.

Since then, we’ve told you about seven different people who are currently facing murder charges for crimes that they allegedly committed while free on “affordable bail” awaiting trial for charges such as Class X felony armed violence, unlawful use of a weapon, and repeated use of a weapon by a felon.

It’s hard to fathom how Evans would conclude that those murders and shootings committed by persons on affordable bail weren’t “horrible incidents.”

Since November, our team has come across new cases in which men have been charged with killing or shooting people while on affordable bail awaiting trial for serious crimes. Here’s a look at these new “not horrible” situations:

Last February, prosecutors charged 19-year-old Armando Lopez with felony aggravated unlawful use of a weapon, felony possession of a controlled substance, and driving on a revoked license after Chicago police allegedly found a rifle in his vehicle on the 2700 block of South Kedzie. Judge David Navarro allowed Lopez to go home after posting a $500 bond.

While he was out, Lopez got another gun which he used to shoot and killed 32-year-old nurse Frank Aguilar whom he mistook for a rival gang member on Nov. 13, according to allegations in court records.

Lopez is now being held without bail.

In April 2019, prosecutors charged 24-year-old Josue Becerra with having a loaded 45-caliber handgun in his vehicle in Albany Park. Judge David Navarro released him for $200.

Then, on July 23, police were flagged down by a man who told them that three men in a red Jeep pointed a gun at him near the 4900 block of North Milwaukee. A few minutes later, officers tried to pull Becerra over as he drove a red Jeep nearby. Police say he sped away, drove in the wrong lane, and cruised onto the Kennedy Expressway before they caught up with him. He was charged with fleeing and eluding, possession of ecstasy, and multiple traffic violations.

Even though he was still on bail for the April gun violation, Judge Charles Beach let him go home by posting another $500 bond.

Finally, on Jan. 21, a couple of Chicago cops said they were doing undercover surveillance when they heard gunfire and saw Becerra run past their covert car with a gun in his hand.

Police tried to stop him, but Becerra got into a car that sped away and eventually crashed in North Center. He and the driver were immediately arrested

Horribly, the shots left a 43-year-old man in critical condition. Prosecutors charged Becerra with attempted murder, aggravated unlawful use of a weapon, aggravated battery of a police officer, and aggravated assault of a police officer. This time, he was ordered held without bail.
----

Chicago...


Woman facing robbery, gun charges after Uptown hold-up; Cops eye connection with second case

Prosecutors charged 19-year-old Winter Smith with felony armed robbery with a firearm, felony unlawful possession of a firearm, and misdemeanor counts of carrying a weapon without a Firearm Owner’s ID (FOID) card and possessing ammunition without a FOID.

The terms of Smith’s bail were not immediately available on Monday evening. According to online records, she has been released from custody.

 

[sealybobo]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

How many times a year in America are guns used to commit crimes?

How many times a year in America are guns used to prevent a crime?

The point is we have a crazy out of control gun culture where even the criminals have no problem getting their hands on guns. In Australia and Canada and England far less people are victims of gun violence as they are here in America.

Face it. If we had tougher gun laws we'd have less dead people in America every year. You could still have hunting guns and guns to protect your home but not every tom dick and harry can get an assault rifle.

I would feel safer in another country despite the fact that so many John Wayne's are running around packin. They don't make me feel safe but all the American rampage shooters do make me feel unsafe.

You can pass all the draconian gun laws you can think of and you still will see no major drop in gun violence.

Do you really think the drug gangs and criminals are going to participate in a gun buy back program or turn their firearms in? Do you really think citizens are going to turn their firearms in knowing the criminals will keep theirs?

Of course you will say you will just send the cops out to confiscate firearms from honest people who have committed no crime. Good luck with that as many counties and states in our nation are gun sanctuaries. I live in a county in Florida that is a gun sanctuary. In such counties the locals will not cooperate with the Feds to confiscate firearms from honest people. They will tell you that goes against the Constitution which they have pledged an oath to defend.

View attachment 500222

States and counties that have passed Second Amendment sanctuary (or other pro-Second Amendment) laws or resolutions. View county names by opening the map and hovering your mouse when using a laptop/desktop. Localities within counties that have adopted such resolutions are not displayed in this map; please see the corresponding Wikipedia article for the full list. Green = County level Blue = State level Purple = Both state and county levels

Second Amendment sanctuary - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do police swear an oath to the Constitution? | USAttorneys.com

Oath. State and local police generally swear an oath to the United States Constitution, as civil service or uniformed service officers, stating: “I, officer name, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and...

police-brutality.usattorneys.com

Omg. I’m talking about implementing policies that will stop gangs from getting guns. You’re not willing because gangs aren’t going to participate in buybacks.

Sorry I don’t have a policy idea that will get all gang members to turn in all their illegal guns. Do you? And so what? So does that mean we shouldn’t pass any common sense gun legislation?

Should we repeal all the common sense gun legislation we have on the books now? Why not? They don’t get gang members to participate in buybacks so why are we bothering?

If we did it your way no gang member would have an illegal gun. There would be no such thing. And every gang kill would be justified under stand your ground laws.

You are wrong.....gangs do participate in gun buybacks...after they use a gun to kill another gang member, they turn the gun in, without any questions...and get gift cards......

What we need to do is keep violent gun offenders, in particular, gang members who use illegal guns, in prison.....

The democrat party keeps giving them bail, no-cash bail, home monitoring....before they go to prison........no matter how many times they are arrested for carrying and even using illegal guns.....

Then, the democrat party plea bargains down the gun charge, making a violent gun crime into a mere drug selling charge, giving them a reduced sentence....and they are out in under 3 years to use illegal guns for crime and murder again.....

Japan locks people up for 15 years...in a Japanese prison vs the comfy American prisons.........and for life if they discharge the weapon.....

They don't get bail, they don't get no cash bail, they don't get home monitoring...and they are not released over and over again despite repeated gun crimes....

Show me a link that guns turned in don’t match a murder. No fucking way. If that was true every murderer would turn in their guns. I’m calling you a liar.

You don't understand.....gun buy backs are no questions asked.....they can turn in dirty guns, and get rid of them....

They don't turn in more because they are using them to shoot other gang members........

and when they steal crap guns from homes...they turn them in for cash and gift cards...

Crazy if true but I dont believe it. If true all murderers would drive to chicago to get rid of the evidence no questions asked. You’re probably misinformed. Fox News.

I bet the gun companies like guns being destroyed no questions asked. Good for their business.

 

[Rigby5]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly as many. We should do what they are doing.
View attachment 496928

I agree we kill way too many people, but I don't think legal guns have anything to do with it.
Just like Prohibition caused a huge increase in shooting, by factor of 10, so had the War on Drugs.
Making something illegal means profits go up, but they then have to deal only in cash, no checks, credit cards, or banks.
The rest of the world also has much better education, health care, etc.
Guns have nothing to do with it, because drug dealers always have to be armed and get guns illegally.
So gun control laws can not have any effect on these illegal gun sources.

 

[sealybobo]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

How many times a year in America are guns used to commit crimes?

How many times a year in America are guns used to prevent a crime?

The point is we have a crazy out of control gun culture where even the criminals have no problem getting their hands on guns. In Australia and Canada and England far less people are victims of gun violence as they are here in America.

Face it. If we had tougher gun laws we'd have less dead people in America every year. You could still have hunting guns and guns to protect your home but not every tom dick and harry can get an assault rifle.

I would feel safer in another country despite the fact that so many John Wayne's are running around packin. They don't make me feel safe but all the American rampage shooters do make me feel unsafe.

You can pass all the draconian gun laws you can think of and you still will see no major drop in gun violence.

Do you really think the drug gangs and criminals are going to participate in a gun buy back program or turn their firearms in? Do you really think citizens are going to turn their firearms in knowing the criminals will keep theirs?

Of course you will say you will just send the cops out to confiscate firearms from honest people who have committed no crime. Good luck with that as many counties and states in our nation are gun sanctuaries. I live in a county in Florida that is a gun sanctuary. In such counties the locals will not cooperate with the Feds to confiscate firearms from honest people. They will tell you that goes against the Constitution which they have pledged an oath to defend.

View attachment 500222

States and counties that have passed Second Amendment sanctuary (or other pro-Second Amendment) laws or resolutions. View county names by opening the map and hovering your mouse when using a laptop/desktop. Localities within counties that have adopted such resolutions are not displayed in this map; please see the corresponding Wikipedia article for the full list. Green = County level Blue = State level Purple = Both state and county levels

Second Amendment sanctuary - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do police swear an oath to the Constitution? | USAttorneys.com

Oath. State and local police generally swear an oath to the United States Constitution, as civil service or uniformed service officers, stating: “I, officer name, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and...

police-brutality.usattorneys.com

Omg. I’m talking about implementing policies that will stop gangs from getting guns. You’re not willing because gangs aren’t going to participate in buybacks.

Sorry I don’t have a policy idea that will get all gang members to turn in all their illegal guns. Do you? And so what? So does that mean we shouldn’t pass any common sense gun legislation?

Should we repeal all the common sense gun legislation we have on the books now? Why not? They don’t get gang members to participate in buybacks so why are we bothering?

If we did it your way no gang member would have an illegal gun. There would be no such thing. And every gang kill would be justified under stand your ground laws.

You are wrong.....gangs do participate in gun buybacks...after they use a gun to kill another gang member, they turn the gun in, without any questions...and get gift cards......

What we need to do is keep violent gun offenders, in particular, gang members who use illegal guns, in prison.....

The democrat party keeps giving them bail, no-cash bail, home monitoring....before they go to prison........no matter how many times they are arrested for carrying and even using illegal guns.....

Then, the democrat party plea bargains down the gun charge, making a violent gun crime into a mere drug selling charge, giving them a reduced sentence....and they are out in under 3 years to use illegal guns for crime and murder again.....

Japan locks people up for 15 years...in a Japanese prison vs the comfy American prisons.........and for life if they discharge the weapon.....

They don't get bail, they don't get no cash bail, they don't get home monitoring...and they are not released over and over again despite repeated gun crimes....

It’s not democrats. Its our legal system. People on trial have rights do you want to take those away? So the prosecutor settles for a ten year sentence plea rather than go to trial.

And then you republicans don’t want to rehabilitate just punish them, then they come out worse

It is democrats....

Baltimore Democrats don't want Larry Hogan to rein in gun violence

Citing their opposition to mandatory minimum sentences, Democrats in the Maryland General Assembly say they are unlikely to pass Gov. Larry Hogan’s top priority this session ― the Violent Firearms Offender Act ― infuriating the governor who alleges lawmakers aren’t taking shootings in Baltimore seriously.

In an interview with The Baltimore Sun on Wednesday, Hogan argued that lawmakers who don’t support his legislation are out of touch with the views of most Marylanders and should step down from their leadership posts. On a table in his office at the State House, he spread out his internal polling results that show residents overwhelmingly want “tougher sentences for violent offenders who commit crimes with guns.”

Democrats in the Assembly are saying that bill won’t even make it out of the Judicial Proceedings Committee, so there won’t be a chance of a full floor vote or debate. Their objections are based on the removal of judicial discretion for a number of gun crimes in favor of mandatory minimum sentences. But judicial discretion is a large part of the reason the city is dealing with a murder rate that’s worse than you would find in some war zones.

The Democrats are also arguing that the city of Baltimore already passed tougher gun laws two years ago, but they’ve done nothing to stem the violence.

That’s a disingenuous argument, however, because the new law only applied in certain parts of the city and provided only one year in jail for illegal possession of a firearm. That was an improvement over the previous average of six months (!) but it’s still a laughably short stretch for most of the hardened gang members.

The same Democrats are arguing that what Baltimore really needs is better enforcement of existing laws. They note that police only made 20,000 arrests in 2019 compared to an annual average of 100,000 when Martin O’Malley was the mayor. Also, the homicide clearance rate has fallen to just 32%. But why not do both?

The Baltimore PD released data showing that the average homicide suspect arrested in Baltimore has eight previous arrests.

They don’t have the resources to closely monitor all of the violent criminals who are out on parole, so the same shooters wind up being arrested over and over again.

They believe that fewer than 100 gang members are responsible for the lion’s share of the murders in the city, but they can’t keep them off the streets.

Virginia

VA Dems Make It Clear: It's About Guns, Not Crime

Virginia Democrats on Thursday evening killed a bill that would have done more to reduce violent crime in the state’s hardest hit cities than any of Gov. Ralph Northam’s proposals, making it clear that their agenda isn’t about saving lives, but restricting rights.

HB1617, authored by Republican Del. Jason Miyares, a former prosecutor, would have provided grant money to cities in order to implement two programs; Project Ceasefire and Project Exile.


The two programs work in conjunction with each other, both targeting the cities most violent and prolific offenders. Those individuals are given a choice. They can stop shooting, in which case they can work with the Ceasefire folks to help put their life on the right path, whether it’s through a GED program, job training, an apprenticeship, and the like. Or, if they keep shooting, they’ll be dealing with the men and women in Project Exile, and their cases are going to be referred to federal court where they’ll be facing long prison sentences without the possibility of early release.

“You’re going to stop shooting. We’ll help you if you let us, but we’ll make you if we have to.” That’s the message and the strategy behind these programs and it works, as has been detailed by researchers like David Kennedy, who has helped implement the strategy in many cities over the past twenty years. It works because it targets the people who are actually committing violent crimes. In many cases, these most likely to offend are also the most likely to be victimized. They’re responsible for a disproportionate amount of crime and tragedy in the communities they live and prey upon. But many of them are not beyond redemption, and lives have not only been saved but changed by these efforts.

This is the bill that Democrats killed, while passing bills to ration handgun purchases, limit firearms training, establish red flag laws, and even allow localities to pass their own gun control laws. They want cities across the state to be able to put useless, ineffective, and unconstitutional laws on the books, while preventing them from putting proven and effective programs in place that don’t require any new legislation beyond establishing a funding mechanism.

This is shameful. I’m not being hyperbolic when I say that I believe this bill, had it been enacted into law, would have saved more lives than all of Gov. Northam’s gun bills put together, and Democrats killed it in committee. This is not common sense. In fact, it makes no sense, given the fact that the Project Ceasefire model has support from a lot of liberal politicians.

Political.

 

[2aguy]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

How many times a year in America are guns used to commit crimes?

How many times a year in America are guns used to prevent a crime?

The point is we have a crazy out of control gun culture where even the criminals have no problem getting their hands on guns. In Australia and Canada and England far less people are victims of gun violence as they are here in America.

Face it. If we had tougher gun laws we'd have less dead people in America every year. You could still have hunting guns and guns to protect your home but not every tom dick and harry can get an assault rifle.

I would feel safer in another country despite the fact that so many John Wayne's are running around packin. They don't make me feel safe but all the American rampage shooters do make me feel unsafe.

You can pass all the draconian gun laws you can think of and you still will see no major drop in gun violence.

Do you really think the drug gangs and criminals are going to participate in a gun buy back program or turn their firearms in? Do you really think citizens are going to turn their firearms in knowing the criminals will keep theirs?

Of course you will say you will just send the cops out to confiscate firearms from honest people who have committed no crime. Good luck with that as many counties and states in our nation are gun sanctuaries. I live in a county in Florida that is a gun sanctuary. In such counties the locals will not cooperate with the Feds to confiscate firearms from honest people. They will tell you that goes against the Constitution which they have pledged an oath to defend.

View attachment 500222

States and counties that have passed Second Amendment sanctuary (or other pro-Second Amendment) laws or resolutions. View county names by opening the map and hovering your mouse when using a laptop/desktop. Localities within counties that have adopted such resolutions are not displayed in this map; please see the corresponding Wikipedia article for the full list. Green = County level Blue = State level Purple = Both state and county levels

Second Amendment sanctuary - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do police swear an oath to the Constitution? | USAttorneys.com

Oath. State and local police generally swear an oath to the United States Constitution, as civil service or uniformed service officers, stating: “I, officer name, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and...

police-brutality.usattorneys.com

Omg. I’m talking about implementing policies that will stop gangs from getting guns. You’re not willing because gangs aren’t going to participate in buybacks.

Sorry I don’t have a policy idea that will get all gang members to turn in all their illegal guns. Do you? And so what? So does that mean we shouldn’t pass any common sense gun legislation?

Should we repeal all the common sense gun legislation we have on the books now? Why not? They don’t get gang members to participate in buybacks so why are we bothering?

If we did it your way no gang member would have an illegal gun. There would be no such thing. And every gang kill would be justified under stand your ground laws.

You are wrong.....gangs do participate in gun buybacks...after they use a gun to kill another gang member, they turn the gun in, without any questions...and get gift cards......

What we need to do is keep violent gun offenders, in particular, gang members who use illegal guns, in prison.....

The democrat party keeps giving them bail, no-cash bail, home monitoring....before they go to prison........no matter how many times they are arrested for carrying and even using illegal guns.....

Then, the democrat party plea bargains down the gun charge, making a violent gun crime into a mere drug selling charge, giving them a reduced sentence....and they are out in under 3 years to use illegal guns for crime and murder again.....

Japan locks people up for 15 years...in a Japanese prison vs the comfy American prisons.........and for life if they discharge the weapon.....

They don't get bail, they don't get no cash bail, they don't get home monitoring...and they are not released over and over again despite repeated gun crimes....

It’s not democrats. Its our legal system. People on trial have rights do you want to take those away? So the prosecutor settles for a ten year sentence plea rather than go to trial.

And then you republicans don’t want to rehabilitate just punish them, then they come out worse

It's democrats...bail reform in New York.....and other democrat policies..

NY Major Crime Soars. Police Blame Bail Reform.

According to the NYPD, compared to February 2019, major crimes grew 22.5%; in addition, the city suffered a 7.1% increase in shootings. The city also saw a rise in robbery, assault, burglary, grand larceny, and grand larceny, according to Fox News.

The NYPD revealed that New York prosecutors declined to prosecute 803 crimes in January and February; last year that figure was 527 cases.
--------

Horowitz: NY crime skyrockets, shootings up 60%, following prison reduction agenda

No ordinary citizen can legally carry a gun in New York City, yet shootings are up 59.6 percent over this time last year.

On Sunday, a pregnant woman was shot while sitting in her own car in front of her home in Queens. This is becoming the new normal in New York after the memo has gone out to criminals in the city that politicians fear growing the prison population more than they fear crime.

According to NYPD crime data, in addition to the 59.6 percent spike in shootings over this time last year, robberies increased 32.8 percent and grand larceny auto crimes were up a whopping 62.8 percent. Burglaries rose by 17 percent. This is just for the first 26 days of 2020.

What gives? According to NYPD Commissioner Dermot Shea, it’s no mystery.

It’s all about New York’s law abolishing bail. “If you let out individuals that commit a lot of crime, that’s precision policing in reverse and we’re seeing the effects in a very quick time,” Shea said at a press conference last Friday. He decried the undeniable “correlation” between the rise in crime and the jail and prison “populations dropping significantly.”

Denver.....

Our kids are dying: Gun violence killing increasing number of teens in Denver and across Colorado

In 2018 and the first eight and a half months of 2019, 15 teenagers and children have been shot and killed in Denver — more than in the previous three years combined. Even as the number of homicides in Denver grew over the past four years, so has the proportion of victims ages 19 and younger, Denver Post analysis shows.

The deadly trend is also reflected in statewide data. The number of people 17 years old and younger killed by guns in Colorado has trended upward since 2014, when six kids in that age range were victims of murder by gun. In 2018, 12 young people were killed.

---

The number of youths killed by guns so far this year already exceeds the number killed each year in 2017, 2016 and 2015. And, with four months left 2019, the number shot to death is coming close to the 2018 total.

-----

Data also shows that the impacts of gun violence are felt almost entirely by black and Latino youths.

Sixty-three of the 67 teenagers and kids who have been shot and wounded in Denver from Jan. 1, 2018, through August of this year were black or Latino.


New York....

Another Reason (If You Needed One) to Carry a Gun: Bail 'Reform' - The Truth About Guns

In most of the nation, setting bail not only helps ensure criminals make their court dates, but also serves as a deterrent to more criminal activity. After all, one can’t victimize innocent, law-abiding Americans when you’re in jail. And being re-arrested while you’re waiting for trial might just forfeit your bond.

New York State, however, has a new “no cash bail” law that took effect January 1 (because posting bail is racist or classist or something). The results have not been pretty.


Stories about of serial bad guys repeatedly walking out of jail without posting a thin dime for bail. Only to commit more crimes. From the New York Post:

Robbery is up almost 30% in New York City since the first of the year. Is this a statistical blip, a trend — or a New Year’s bail-reform gift from Albany, robbery now largely being a revolving-door offense in the Empire State?

Time will tell, but consider this as well: According to the latest NYPD stats, the number of shooting victims in the city is up 31% since New Year’s Day — so at the very least Gotham appears to be off to a rocky 2020 compared to last year.

Seattle...

Dori: Durkan's failures, political correctness caused downtown Seattle shooting

People right away criticized me for blaming gangs when we did not know for sure who was responsible. Of course we knew it was gangs. I’m sick and tired of a squishy media that won’t speak the truth because it is so consumed with political correctness. Everybody knew exactly what happened last night.

We do not let the cops do their jobs. The cops know who the gang members and drug dealers are. They also know that if they see a drug transaction and write it up for the prosecutor’s office, it’s going to get kicked because it’s not a serious enough crime. And when prosecutors pursue criminals, judges let them walk free.


The two suspects in this downtown shooting have been arrested 44 times with 20 convictions and 21 times with 15 convictions. Marquise Tolbert, the one with 20 convictions, had three felonies last year alone.


You tell me how someone with three felonies in 2019 is walking around free and able to engage in a shootout that kills a woman and injures a bunch of other people, including a 9-year-old kid. Both Tolbert and William Tolliver, the other suspect, are just 24 years old.


They both have previously been arrested and charged with drive-by shootings and unlawful possession of a firearm in 2018. So the courts knew full well that these were gun-toting gang members. Why did our justice system let them walk free? Why do we place criminals above law-abiding citizens?

 

[sealybobo]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly as many. We should do what they are doing.
View attachment 496928

I agree we kill way too many people, but I don't think legal guns have anything to do with it.
Just like Prohibition caused a huge increase in shooting, by factor of 10, so had the War on Drugs.
Making something illegal means profits go up, but they then have to deal only in cash, no checks, credit cards, or banks.
The rest of the world also has much better education, health care, etc.
Guns have nothing to do with it, because drug dealers always have to be armed and get guns illegally.
So gun control laws can not have any effect on these illegal gun sources.

I’m a drug dealer and all my guns are legal

 

[2aguy]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

How many times a year in America are guns used to commit crimes?

How many times a year in America are guns used to prevent a crime?

The point is we have a crazy out of control gun culture where even the criminals have no problem getting their hands on guns. In Australia and Canada and England far less people are victims of gun violence as they are here in America.

Face it. If we had tougher gun laws we'd have less dead people in America every year. You could still have hunting guns and guns to protect your home but not every tom dick and harry can get an assault rifle.

I would feel safer in another country despite the fact that so many John Wayne's are running around packin. They don't make me feel safe but all the American rampage shooters do make me feel unsafe.

You can pass all the draconian gun laws you can think of and you still will see no major drop in gun violence.

Do you really think the drug gangs and criminals are going to participate in a gun buy back program or turn their firearms in? Do you really think citizens are going to turn their firearms in knowing the criminals will keep theirs?

Of course you will say you will just send the cops out to confiscate firearms from honest people who have committed no crime. Good luck with that as many counties and states in our nation are gun sanctuaries. I live in a county in Florida that is a gun sanctuary. In such counties the locals will not cooperate with the Feds to confiscate firearms from honest people. They will tell you that goes against the Constitution which they have pledged an oath to defend.

View attachment 500222

States and counties that have passed Second Amendment sanctuary (or other pro-Second Amendment) laws or resolutions. View county names by opening the map and hovering your mouse when using a laptop/desktop. Localities within counties that have adopted such resolutions are not displayed in this map; please see the corresponding Wikipedia article for the full list. Green = County level Blue = State level Purple = Both state and county levels

Second Amendment sanctuary - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do police swear an oath to the Constitution? | USAttorneys.com

Oath. State and local police generally swear an oath to the United States Constitution, as civil service or uniformed service officers, stating: “I, officer name, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and...

police-brutality.usattorneys.com

Omg. I’m talking about implementing policies that will stop gangs from getting guns. You’re not willing because gangs aren’t going to participate in buybacks.

Sorry I don’t have a policy idea that will get all gang members to turn in all their illegal guns. Do you? And so what? So does that mean we shouldn’t pass any common sense gun legislation?

Should we repeal all the common sense gun legislation we have on the books now? Why not? They don’t get gang members to participate in buybacks so why are we bothering?

If we did it your way no gang member would have an illegal gun. There would be no such thing. And every gang kill would be justified under stand your ground laws.

You are wrong.....gangs do participate in gun buybacks...after they use a gun to kill another gang member, they turn the gun in, without any questions...and get gift cards......

What we need to do is keep violent gun offenders, in particular, gang members who use illegal guns, in prison.....

The democrat party keeps giving them bail, no-cash bail, home monitoring....before they go to prison........no matter how many times they are arrested for carrying and even using illegal guns.....

Then, the democrat party plea bargains down the gun charge, making a violent gun crime into a mere drug selling charge, giving them a reduced sentence....and they are out in under 3 years to use illegal guns for crime and murder again.....

Japan locks people up for 15 years...in a Japanese prison vs the comfy American prisons.........and for life if they discharge the weapon.....

They don't get bail, they don't get no cash bail, they don't get home monitoring...and they are not released over and over again despite repeated gun crimes....

It’s not democrats. Its our legal system. People on trial have rights do you want to take those away? So the prosecutor settles for a ten year sentence plea rather than go to trial.

And then you republicans don’t want to rehabilitate just punish them, then they come out worse

Virginia democrats......helping gun felons...why would they do that?


Virginia Dems Kill Bill That Targeted Criminals Who Use Guns

While Virginia Democrats are merrily approving gun control laws aimed at the state’s legal gun owners, they apparently aren’t interested in focusing on violent criminals who use firearms in the commission of a crime.

HB 1175 would have increased the penalty for using or brandishing a firearm while committing certain felonies, which seems like a pretty common sense bill to me. Instead, members of the House Public Safety Committee rejected the measure on Tuesday, while approving a number of gun bills that are meant to restrict the rights of legal gun owners in the name of public safety.
------

So they’re okay with making it a felony to continue to possess your 15-round magazine or to transfer a firearm without a background check, but the status quo is fine when it comes to punishing those who use guns in the commission of a crime.

 

[candycorn]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

I strongly prefer the Dutch model (i'm a Dutch citizen).
we have a population of over 17 million people, yet violent crime has decreased from +-9100 incidents in 20210 to +-3500 incidents in 2020.

only the police are allowed guns in this country, and guns hardly ever get abused. years between "school shootings" (the last one i can remember was over 8 years ago, and involved a crazy man walking into a supermarket and shooting people).

you people in the US however, have dozens of incidents per week where guns are used against random strangers.

and lastly, we have a rich history of martial arts schools in this country.
and it's perfectly possible to stop a robbery or rape attempt without a gun. it's just different training. which you can find on youtube for instance, i recommend a search for 'silat' and 'systema'.

Tell that to Sweden...they are experiencing violent gun crime at higher rates than the rest of Europe....

Americans use their guns 1.1 million times a year to stop brutal rapes, beatings, knifings, robberies and murders.....we have a political party that keeps releasing the most violent criminals back onto our streets....

As you live in a tiny country, with a homogenous population, you are lucky......you don't have a political party releasing violent criminals, and you don't have 3rd world immigrants taking over your drug trade......

Statistics were debunked long ago.

There are nowhere near a million defensive gun uses per year.

That would be 2,740 a day, every day.

Put another way, that would be about 115 an hour, every hour, every day.

Visually....everyone you see in these 10 pictures of the stadium....would have had to have used a gun in self defense in a year.


The cartoonish figure has been debunked over and over again....

The figure is closer to about 80,000 and many of those are passive gun displays...not active gun uses.


Ask yourself...do you know anyone who has had to have a shoot out with someone? No.
Do you know anyone who knows anyone who has had a shoot out with someone? No.

From actual professional researchers from both private and government research groups including the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice....in a country of now over 320 million people, with 600 million guns in private hands, and over 19.4 million Americans legally carrying guns for self defense in public....

Do you know the difference in size between 320,000,000.....600,000,000.....19,400,000

And 80,000?

Keep in mind....the majority of those doing the following research...were anti-gunners...including Gary Kleck......

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

Few people have used a gun in self defense
Few people know anyone who has used a gun in self defense.
Few people know anyone who knows anyone who has used a gun in self defense.

Your statistic is comedic and I'm being polite.

You say that without any backup.....the very first post a moderator told me since this is the CDZ I had to provide links to my numbers....I did...you have not......

I provided a list of 17 studies by professional research groups, both private and government, most of them anti-gun, using modern research methods....including the vaunted Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice...

You just make claims......

How many gunfights have you been in personally?

Me? None......yet.

Well, you're a reasonably old man, right....probably between 18 and 60 somewhere. However old you are, according to you, there were over a million gun defenses ever year. I'm in my 50's. I have never been in a gun fight....I know nobody (outside of a few cops) who have seen hostile gunfire a few times--independent of military action. Thats is allegedly 50,000,000 defensive gun uses. And nobody I know and nobody whom they know....knows of anyone who was in a gunfight.

So my question is now this...lets say you're 30. That means during your "life", there were supposedly 30M defensive gun uses if you believe your silly statistic. Keep in mind, 30M people--that is more than live in Houston, Dallas, Austin, San Antonio, El Paso, the Valley---the entire population of Texas.

How many people do you personally know (outside of cops) who have been in a gunfight? Just a number please...save your silly mumbo jumbo for someone who cares. That ain't me.

Me...still none.....

Look...your stat says where are over a million defensive gun uses a year. You know it's BS. But you keep bringing it out. I'm using your stat that there are 126 gunfights an hour...every hour of every day in this nation. Its seems strange that you haven't been involved in any of them or know anyone who has been involved in any of them.

I don't know how old you are but lets say you're 35.

That is 35,000,000+ defensive gun uses you've never heard of? You have never been in a shoot out, you don't know anyone who has been in a shoot out? How is that possible?

Lets add that to the 50,000,000+ million supposed uses that I have no knowledge of. I doubt we move in the same circles or know the same folks.

So that is 80,000,000+ gun uses that supposedly happened--that neither of us have participated in or know of anyone who has participated in.

More remarkably, like 79,000,000+ of the 80,000,000+ shoot outs you'd have us believe happened haven't been covered by the local papers, the local news station on TV, radio, etc...

Must be some sort of conspiracy. LOL.

 

[candycorn]

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly a many. We should do what they are doing.

London does not have a drug-gang industry fueled by Fatherless poor Black communities like the US does. Replicate our inner cities in London and their statistics would be in line with ours.

So you think Americans are just inherently violent people? You might think having so many guns might have something to do with that.

No what i think is that the violence in the inner cities that is the main contributor to our murder rate is at best not seen as important by the governments of those cities and at worst it is actually accepted as some means to an end.

The fact is that the murder rates of just a handful of cities is skewing the rate of the entire country and what's more these pockets of violence with very high murder rates are so small and isolated that an area of just a few square city blocks can have a murder rate that is 10 or 15 times the national average while an adjacent similar sized area in the same city will have a murder rate far less than the national average.

We all know this, the cops know this, the city and state governments know this but for some reason they all choose to ignore it because it's mostly young poor minority males killing other young poor minority males

Exactly......and the problem for Europe? They think that crime is static....that their culture, values and justice system will always keep the monsters at bay.........they are starting to see that this isn't the case.........World War 1 and 2 slowed down Europe when it came to crime.........they are now reaching the point that the U.S. found itself in in the 1950s....as criminals transitioned from knives to guns..........and more and more violence......

We kill 55 people with guns for every 1 person they kill with guns. We should be doing what they are doing.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We have an inner city murder problem because we want to have an inner city murder problem

I suppose it is easy to make that claim, but I've never seen anyone be able to prove it.

The proof is in the statistics.

Inner city murders aren't solved because the powers that be don't want them to be solved

If you really were concerned about the murder rate you would want to find out where most murders occur and why they occur in those places and it isn't because of guns. In fact there are actually fewer guns per capita in urban areas than rural areas yet murder rates are the highest in cities and most of those murders are concentrated in very small geographic areas.

Like I said we all know where the most murders take place and the cops and city officials sure as hell know it too but nothing ever seems to be done about it

Didn't you just say murders weren't worth concerning ourselves with? Again, you make the accusation that nobody wants to prevent murders any more than you do, but don't present any proof that is true. Just like always.

Murder isn't a concern for most people.

I never said I wanted to prevent murders more than anyone else if you think I did then quote it.

What I said was that everyone, even you, know where most murders take place but most people, even you, don't seem to want to do anything about it.

Higher crime rates, including murder rates around the world are tied to the same thing. Poverty and inequality. Studies have shown this to be true whether it be a town or entire country, the higher the poverty and inequality rates, the higher the crime rates. What exactly do you think should be done to reduce crime in the inner cities? We've tried the get tough strategy, and it just made things worse. What do you think should be done?

Ask a sociologist.

I do know that making it harder for law abiding people to own guns won't do anything

Sociologists have already answered that question. Relieve the poverty and inequality in those areas.

So does that mean you will stop trying to say gun control will be the answer to our murder rate?

I never said gun control is THE answer to our murder rate. I don't think there is one all encompassing answer. Reasonable gun control would help.

Here are some ideas that will work...

1) keep violent, repeat gun offenders locked up in prison....for 30-life.

2) work to get families to stay together, to not have children until they are married......our democrat party controlled cities have minority out of wedlock birthrates of over 70%...that is what causes crime and poverty....that causes murder...

3) stop attacking the police....the democrat party war on police is increasing the murder rate, in particular the black and hispanic murder rate......by attacking the police...defunding the police, the democrat party is increasing our crime rates.....

4) for the rarest of rare gun crimes...mass public shootings....

a. get rid of gun free zones. mass shooters target gun free zones.

b. work to improve parental and organizational awareness of the dangerously mentally ill........

There......very specific policies that actually target gun murder.....

Nothing you want does anything ....

1--Good idea.
2--Good idea too. Wait a second...your idol Trump was divorced 3 times. His attorney was divorced 3 times or so....your talk radio god was divorced 3 times or so. Damn democrats!
3--Perhaps you guys should stop killing/injuring cops when elections don't go your way.

 

[2aguy]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly as many. We should do what they are doing.
View attachment 496928

I agree we kill way too many people, but I don't think legal guns have anything to do with it.
Just like Prohibition caused a huge increase in shooting, by factor of 10, so had the War on Drugs.
Making something illegal means profits go up, but they then have to deal only in cash, no checks, credit cards, or banks.
The rest of the world also has much better education, health care, etc.
Guns have nothing to do with it, because drug dealers always have to be armed and get guns illegally.
So gun control laws can not have any effect on these illegal gun sources.

I’m a drug dealer and all my guns are legal

If you are a drug dealer you can't own or carry a gun....

Delaware....democrat control

In Delaware, 71% of gun charges are dropped
Exclusive: As violence rises, prosecutors bargain away gun charges

 

[sealybobo]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

How many times a year in America are guns used to commit crimes?

How many times a year in America are guns used to prevent a crime?

The point is we have a crazy out of control gun culture where even the criminals have no problem getting their hands on guns. In Australia and Canada and England far less people are victims of gun violence as they are here in America.

Face it. If we had tougher gun laws we'd have less dead people in America every year. You could still have hunting guns and guns to protect your home but not every tom dick and harry can get an assault rifle.

I would feel safer in another country despite the fact that so many John Wayne's are running around packin. They don't make me feel safe but all the American rampage shooters do make me feel unsafe.

You can pass all the draconian gun laws you can think of and you still will see no major drop in gun violence.

Do you really think the drug gangs and criminals are going to participate in a gun buy back program or turn their firearms in? Do you really think citizens are going to turn their firearms in knowing the criminals will keep theirs?

Of course you will say you will just send the cops out to confiscate firearms from honest people who have committed no crime. Good luck with that as many counties and states in our nation are gun sanctuaries. I live in a county in Florida that is a gun sanctuary. In such counties the locals will not cooperate with the Feds to confiscate firearms from honest people. They will tell you that goes against the Constitution which they have pledged an oath to defend.

View attachment 500222

States and counties that have passed Second Amendment sanctuary (or other pro-Second Amendment) laws or resolutions. View county names by opening the map and hovering your mouse when using a laptop/desktop. Localities within counties that have adopted such resolutions are not displayed in this map; please see the corresponding Wikipedia article for the full list. Green = County level Blue = State level Purple = Both state and county levels

Second Amendment sanctuary - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do police swear an oath to the Constitution? | USAttorneys.com

Oath. State and local police generally swear an oath to the United States Constitution, as civil service or uniformed service officers, stating: “I, officer name, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and...

police-brutality.usattorneys.com

Omg. I’m talking about implementing policies that will stop gangs from getting guns. You’re not willing because gangs aren’t going to participate in buybacks.

Sorry I don’t have a policy idea that will get all gang members to turn in all their illegal guns. Do you? And so what? So does that mean we shouldn’t pass any common sense gun legislation?

Should we repeal all the common sense gun legislation we have on the books now? Why not? They don’t get gang members to participate in buybacks so why are we bothering?

If we did it your way no gang member would have an illegal gun. There would be no such thing. And every gang kill would be justified under stand your ground laws.

You are wrong.....gangs do participate in gun buybacks...after they use a gun to kill another gang member, they turn the gun in, without any questions...and get gift cards......

What we need to do is keep violent gun offenders, in particular, gang members who use illegal guns, in prison.....

The democrat party keeps giving them bail, no-cash bail, home monitoring....before they go to prison........no matter how many times they are arrested for carrying and even using illegal guns.....

Then, the democrat party plea bargains down the gun charge, making a violent gun crime into a mere drug selling charge, giving them a reduced sentence....and they are out in under 3 years to use illegal guns for crime and murder again.....

Japan locks people up for 15 years...in a Japanese prison vs the comfy American prisons.........and for life if they discharge the weapon.....

They don't get bail, they don't get no cash bail, they don't get home monitoring...and they are not released over and over again despite repeated gun crimes....

It’s not democrats. Its our legal system. People on trial have rights do you want to take those away? So the prosecutor settles for a ten year sentence plea rather than go to trial.

And then you republicans don’t want to rehabilitate just punish them, then they come out worse

Virginia democrats......helping gun felons...why would they do that?


Virginia Dems Kill Bill That Targeted Criminals Who Use Guns

While Virginia Democrats are merrily approving gun control laws aimed at the state’s legal gun owners, they apparently aren’t interested in focusing on violent criminals who use firearms in the commission of a crime.

HB 1175 would have increased the penalty for using or brandishing a firearm while committing certain felonies, which seems like a pretty common sense bill to me. Instead, members of the House Public Safety Committee rejected the measure on Tuesday, while approving a number of gun bills that are meant to restrict the rights of legal gun owners in the name of public safety.
------

So they’re okay with making it a felony to continue to possess your 15-round magazine or to transfer a firearm without a background check, but the status quo is fine when it comes to punishing those who use guns in the commission of a crime.

Yes I see the way republicans are making this political. Probably the Republican policies are too harsh.

 

[sealybobo]

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly a many. We should do what they are doing.

London does not have a drug-gang industry fueled by Fatherless poor Black communities like the US does. Replicate our inner cities in London and their statistics would be in line with ours.

So you think Americans are just inherently violent people? You might think having so many guns might have something to do with that.

No what i think is that the violence in the inner cities that is the main contributor to our murder rate is at best not seen as important by the governments of those cities and at worst it is actually accepted as some means to an end.

The fact is that the murder rates of just a handful of cities is skewing the rate of the entire country and what's more these pockets of violence with very high murder rates are so small and isolated that an area of just a few square city blocks can have a murder rate that is 10 or 15 times the national average while an adjacent similar sized area in the same city will have a murder rate far less than the national average.

We all know this, the cops know this, the city and state governments know this but for some reason they all choose to ignore it because it's mostly young poor minority males killing other young poor minority males

Exactly......and the problem for Europe? They think that crime is static....that their culture, values and justice system will always keep the monsters at bay.........they are starting to see that this isn't the case.........World War 1 and 2 slowed down Europe when it came to crime.........they are now reaching the point that the U.S. found itself in in the 1950s....as criminals transitioned from knives to guns..........and more and more violence......

We kill 55 people with guns for every 1 person they kill with guns. We should be doing what they are doing.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We have an inner city murder problem because we want to have an inner city murder problem

I suppose it is easy to make that claim, but I've never seen anyone be able to prove it.

The proof is in the statistics.

Inner city murders aren't solved because the powers that be don't want them to be solved

If you really were concerned about the murder rate you would want to find out where most murders occur and why they occur in those places and it isn't because of guns. In fact there are actually fewer guns per capita in urban areas than rural areas yet murder rates are the highest in cities and most of those murders are concentrated in very small geographic areas.

Like I said we all know where the most murders take place and the cops and city officials sure as hell know it too but nothing ever seems to be done about it

Didn't you just say murders weren't worth concerning ourselves with? Again, you make the accusation that nobody wants to prevent murders any more than you do, but don't present any proof that is true. Just like always.

Murder isn't a concern for most people.

I never said I wanted to prevent murders more than anyone else if you think I did then quote it.

What I said was that everyone, even you, know where most murders take place but most people, even you, don't seem to want to do anything about it.

Higher crime rates, including murder rates around the world are tied to the same thing. Poverty and inequality. Studies have shown this to be true whether it be a town or entire country, the higher the poverty and inequality rates, the higher the crime rates. What exactly do you think should be done to reduce crime in the inner cities? We've tried the get tough strategy, and it just made things worse. What do you think should be done?

Ask a sociologist.

I do know that making it harder for law abiding people to own guns won't do anything

Sociologists have already answered that question. Relieve the poverty and inequality in those areas.

So does that mean you will stop trying to say gun control will be the answer to our murder rate?

I never said gun control is THE answer to our murder rate. I don't think there is one all encompassing answer. Reasonable gun control would help.

Here are some ideas that will work...

1) keep violent, repeat gun offenders locked up in prison....for 30-life.

2) work to get families to stay together, to not have children until they are married......our democrat party controlled cities have minority out of wedlock birthrates of over 70%...that is what causes crime and poverty....that causes murder...

3) stop attacking the police....the democrat party war on police is increasing the murder rate, in particular the black and hispanic murder rate......by attacking the police...defunding the police, the democrat party is increasing our crime rates.....

4) for the rarest of rare gun crimes...mass public shootings....

a. get rid of gun free zones. mass shooters target gun free zones.

b. work to improve parental and organizational awareness of the dangerously mentally ill........

There......very specific policies that actually target gun murder.....

Nothing you want does anything ....

1--Good idea.
2--Good idea too. Wait a second...your idol Trump was divorced 3 times. His attorney was divorced 3 times or so....your talk radio god was divorced 3 times or so. Damn democrats!
3--Perhaps you guys should stop killing/injuring cops when elections don't go your way.

Just like republicans used to be the party for blacks, trump was a democrat the last time he got a divorce.

 

[2aguy]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

I strongly prefer the Dutch model (i'm a Dutch citizen).
we have a population of over 17 million people, yet violent crime has decreased from +-9100 incidents in 20210 to +-3500 incidents in 2020.

only the police are allowed guns in this country, and guns hardly ever get abused. years between "school shootings" (the last one i can remember was over 8 years ago, and involved a crazy man walking into a supermarket and shooting people).

you people in the US however, have dozens of incidents per week where guns are used against random strangers.

and lastly, we have a rich history of martial arts schools in this country.
and it's perfectly possible to stop a robbery or rape attempt without a gun. it's just different training. which you can find on youtube for instance, i recommend a search for 'silat' and 'systema'.

Tell that to Sweden...they are experiencing violent gun crime at higher rates than the rest of Europe....

Americans use their guns 1.1 million times a year to stop brutal rapes, beatings, knifings, robberies and murders.....we have a political party that keeps releasing the most violent criminals back onto our streets....

As you live in a tiny country, with a homogenous population, you are lucky......you don't have a political party releasing violent criminals, and you don't have 3rd world immigrants taking over your drug trade......

Statistics were debunked long ago.

There are nowhere near a million defensive gun uses per year.

That would be 2,740 a day, every day.

Put another way, that would be about 115 an hour, every hour, every day.

Visually....everyone you see in these 10 pictures of the stadium....would have had to have used a gun in self defense in a year.


The cartoonish figure has been debunked over and over again....

The figure is closer to about 80,000 and many of those are passive gun displays...not active gun uses.


Ask yourself...do you know anyone who has had to have a shoot out with someone? No.
Do you know anyone who knows anyone who has had a shoot out with someone? No.

From actual professional researchers from both private and government research groups including the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice....in a country of now over 320 million people, with 600 million guns in private hands, and over 19.4 million Americans legally carrying guns for self defense in public....

Do you know the difference in size between 320,000,000.....600,000,000.....19,400,000

And 80,000?

Keep in mind....the majority of those doing the following research...were anti-gunners...including Gary Kleck......

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

Few people have used a gun in self defense
Few people know anyone who has used a gun in self defense.
Few people know anyone who knows anyone who has used a gun in self defense.

Your statistic is comedic and I'm being polite.

You say that without any backup.....the very first post a moderator told me since this is the CDZ I had to provide links to my numbers....I did...you have not......

I provided a list of 17 studies by professional research groups, both private and government, most of them anti-gun, using modern research methods....including the vaunted Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice...

You just make claims......

How many gunfights have you been in personally?

Me? None......yet.

Well, you're a reasonably old man, right....probably between 18 and 60 somewhere. However old you are, according to you, there were over a million gun defenses ever year. I'm in my 50's. I have never been in a gun fight....I know nobody (outside of a few cops) who have seen hostile gunfire a few times--independent of military action. Thats is allegedly 50,000,000 defensive gun uses. And nobody I know and nobody whom they know....knows of anyone who was in a gunfight.

So my question is now this...lets say you're 30. That means during your "life", there were supposedly 30M defensive gun uses if you believe your silly statistic. Keep in mind, 30M people--that is more than live in Houston, Dallas, Austin, San Antonio, El Paso, the Valley---the entire population of Texas.

How many people do you personally know (outside of cops) who have been in a gunfight? Just a number please...save your silly mumbo jumbo for someone who cares. That ain't me.

Me...still none.....

Look...your stat says where are over a million defensive gun uses a year. You know it's BS. But you keep bringing it out. I'm using your stat that there are 126 gunfights an hour...every hour of every day in this nation. Its seems strange that you haven't been involved in any of them or know anyone who has been involved in any of them.

I don't know how old you are but lets say you're 35.

That is 35,000,000+ defensive gun uses you've never heard of? You have never been in a shoot out, you don't know anyone who has been in a shoot out? How is that possible?

Lets add that to the 50,000,000+ million supposed uses that I have no knowledge of. I doubt we move in the same circles or know the same folks.

So that is 80,000,000+ gun uses that supposedly happened--that neither of us have participated in or know of anyone who has participated in.

More remarkably, like 79,000,000+ of the 80,000,000+ shoot outs you'd have us believe happened haven't been covered by the local papers, the local news station on TV, radio, etc...

Must be some sort of conspiracy. LOL.

It's not BS....actual research by 17 different research groups, both private and public looked at this question. They used actual, professional research tools to address the issue.......the majority of them anti-gunners when they did the research....

You have nothing to say their research is wrong.....the Centers for Disease Control and the Department of Justice both did independent research into this and came up with 1.1 million and 1.5 million defensive gun uses...and those are only 2 of the 17 studies..

You don't want it to be true, so you deny the research...

Not gun fights.....Americans using their guns to scare off, capture or wound violent criminals who attack them...often without firing a shot..rapes, robberies,beatings, knifings, murders stopped.....criminals running away, surrendering till the police arrive, or being wounded without being killed....

You can't refute the studies by your own religious groups...the Centers for Disease Control and the Department of Justice....

And in 2013....obama had the CDC look at all gun research...not just those 17 studies....that work is on that list too.....

You have nothing....

Now...

Answer the questions.....

What do you want the woman who was brutally beaten, stabbed and had two of her teeth pulled out by her ex-husband, who was already on a restraining order.....to do to stop the attack.....?

The woman who was violently gang raped by a group of men in the London park....what do you want her to do to keep from being violently gang raped again?

Please answer.....be brave.....

I have built a time machine....I offer you the opportunity to go back in time and to the scenes of the crimes I posted...the woman facing the 2 men who also had a baseball bat, who pulled out her gun and the two guys ran away.....and the woman who was attacked in the parking garage, who was stabbed repeatedly until she managed to get her gun and shoot him, stopping the attack and saving her life......

Now...with my time machine...you can sneak back and take those guns away from those women before the attacks...they will not have those guns.....

Do you do it?