CDZ Two options...the European model of self defense, and the American model of Self defensse.

[2aguy]

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly a many. We should do what they are doing.

London does not have a drug-gang industry fueled by Fatherless poor Black communities like the US does. Replicate our inner cities in London and their statistics would be in line with ours.

So you think Americans are just inherently violent people? You might think having so many guns might have something to do with that.

No what i think is that the violence in the inner cities that is the main contributor to our murder rate is at best not seen as important by the governments of those cities and at worst it is actually accepted as some means to an end.

The fact is that the murder rates of just a handful of cities is skewing the rate of the entire country and what's more these pockets of violence with very high murder rates are so small and isolated that an area of just a few square city blocks can have a murder rate that is 10 or 15 times the national average while an adjacent similar sized area in the same city will have a murder rate far less than the national average.

We all know this, the cops know this, the city and state governments know this but for some reason they all choose to ignore it because it's mostly young poor minority males killing other young poor minority males

Exactly......and the problem for Europe? They think that crime is static....that their culture, values and justice system will always keep the monsters at bay.........they are starting to see that this isn't the case.........World War 1 and 2 slowed down Europe when it came to crime.........they are now reaching the point that the U.S. found itself in in the 1950s....as criminals transitioned from knives to guns..........and more and more violence......

We kill 55 people with guns for every 1 person they kill with guns. We should be doing what they are doing.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We have an inner city murder problem because we want to have an inner city murder problem

I suppose it is easy to make that claim, but I've never seen anyone be able to prove it.

The proof is in the statistics.

Inner city murders aren't solved because the powers that be don't want them to be solved

If you really were concerned about the murder rate you would want to find out where most murders occur and why they occur in those places and it isn't because of guns. In fact there are actually fewer guns per capita in urban areas than rural areas yet murder rates are the highest in cities and most of those murders are concentrated in very small geographic areas.

Like I said we all know where the most murders take place and the cops and city officials sure as hell know it too but nothing ever seems to be done about it

Didn't you just say murders weren't worth concerning ourselves with? Again, you make the accusation that nobody wants to prevent murders any more than you do, but don't present any proof that is true. Just like always.

Murder isn't a concern for most people.

I never said I wanted to prevent murders more than anyone else if you think I did then quote it.

What I said was that everyone, even you, know where most murders take place but most people, even you, don't seem to want to do anything about it.

Higher crime rates, including murder rates around the world are tied to the same thing. Poverty and inequality. Studies have shown this to be true whether it be a town or entire country, the higher the poverty and inequality rates, the higher the crime rates. What exactly do you think should be done to reduce crime in the inner cities? We've tried the get tough strategy, and it just made things worse. What do you think should be done?

Ask a sociologist.

I do know that making it harder for law abiding people to own guns won't do anything

Sociologists have already answered that question. Relieve the poverty and inequality in those areas.

So does that mean you will stop trying to say gun control will be the answer to our murder rate?

I never said gun control is THE answer to our murder rate. I don't think there is one all encompassing answer. Reasonable gun control would help.

Here are some ideas that will work...

1) keep violent, repeat gun offenders locked up in prison....for 30-life.

2) work to get families to stay together, to not have children until they are married......our democrat party controlled cities have minority out of wedlock birthrates of over 70%...that is what causes crime and poverty....that causes murder...

3) stop attacking the police....the democrat party war on police is increasing the murder rate, in particular the black and hispanic murder rate......by attacking the police...defunding the police, the democrat party is increasing our crime rates.....

4) for the rarest of rare gun crimes...mass public shootings....

a. get rid of gun free zones. mass shooters target gun free zones.

b. work to improve parental and organizational awareness of the dangerously mentally ill........

There......very specific policies that actually target gun murder.....

Nothing you want does anything ....

1--Good idea.
2--Good idea too. Wait a second...your idol Trump was divorced 3 times. His attorney was divorced 3 times or so....your talk radio god was divorced 3 times or so. Damn democrats!
3--Perhaps you guys should stop killing/injuring cops when elections don't go your way.

Just like republicans used to be the party for blacks, trump was a democrat the last time he got a divorce.

And now...since your anti-gun statements have been addressed and shot down......you try to wander away from the actual discussion.

 

[2aguy]

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly a many. We should do what they are doing.

London does not have a drug-gang industry fueled by Fatherless poor Black communities like the US does. Replicate our inner cities in London and their statistics would be in line with ours.

So you think Americans are just inherently violent people? You might think having so many guns might have something to do with that.

No what i think is that the violence in the inner cities that is the main contributor to our murder rate is at best not seen as important by the governments of those cities and at worst it is actually accepted as some means to an end.

The fact is that the murder rates of just a handful of cities is skewing the rate of the entire country and what's more these pockets of violence with very high murder rates are so small and isolated that an area of just a few square city blocks can have a murder rate that is 10 or 15 times the national average while an adjacent similar sized area in the same city will have a murder rate far less than the national average.

We all know this, the cops know this, the city and state governments know this but for some reason they all choose to ignore it because it's mostly young poor minority males killing other young poor minority males

Exactly......and the problem for Europe? They think that crime is static....that their culture, values and justice system will always keep the monsters at bay.........they are starting to see that this isn't the case.........World War 1 and 2 slowed down Europe when it came to crime.........they are now reaching the point that the U.S. found itself in in the 1950s....as criminals transitioned from knives to guns..........and more and more violence......

We kill 55 people with guns for every 1 person they kill with guns. We should be doing what they are doing.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We have an inner city murder problem because we want to have an inner city murder problem

I suppose it is easy to make that claim, but I've never seen anyone be able to prove it.

The proof is in the statistics.

Inner city murders aren't solved because the powers that be don't want them to be solved

If you really were concerned about the murder rate you would want to find out where most murders occur and why they occur in those places and it isn't because of guns. In fact there are actually fewer guns per capita in urban areas than rural areas yet murder rates are the highest in cities and most of those murders are concentrated in very small geographic areas.

Like I said we all know where the most murders take place and the cops and city officials sure as hell know it too but nothing ever seems to be done about it

Didn't you just say murders weren't worth concerning ourselves with? Again, you make the accusation that nobody wants to prevent murders any more than you do, but don't present any proof that is true. Just like always.

Murder isn't a concern for most people.

I never said I wanted to prevent murders more than anyone else if you think I did then quote it.

What I said was that everyone, even you, know where most murders take place but most people, even you, don't seem to want to do anything about it.

Higher crime rates, including murder rates around the world are tied to the same thing. Poverty and inequality. Studies have shown this to be true whether it be a town or entire country, the higher the poverty and inequality rates, the higher the crime rates. What exactly do you think should be done to reduce crime in the inner cities? We've tried the get tough strategy, and it just made things worse. What do you think should be done?

Ask a sociologist.

I do know that making it harder for law abiding people to own guns won't do anything

Sociologists have already answered that question. Relieve the poverty and inequality in those areas.

So does that mean you will stop trying to say gun control will be the answer to our murder rate?

I never said gun control is THE answer to our murder rate. I don't think there is one all encompassing answer. Reasonable gun control would help.

Here are some ideas that will work...

1) keep violent, repeat gun offenders locked up in prison....for 30-life.

2) work to get families to stay together, to not have children until they are married......our democrat party controlled cities have minority out of wedlock birthrates of over 70%...that is what causes crime and poverty....that causes murder...

3) stop attacking the police....the democrat party war on police is increasing the murder rate, in particular the black and hispanic murder rate......by attacking the police...defunding the police, the democrat party is increasing our crime rates.....

4) for the rarest of rare gun crimes...mass public shootings....

a. get rid of gun free zones. mass shooters target gun free zones.

b. work to improve parental and organizational awareness of the dangerously mentally ill........

There......very specific policies that actually target gun murder.....

Nothing you want does anything ....

1--Good idea.
2--Good idea too. Wait a second...your idol Trump was divorced 3 times. His attorney was divorced 3 times or so....your talk radio god was divorced 3 times or so. Damn democrats!
3--Perhaps you guys should stop killing/injuring cops when elections don't go your way.

What do you want the woman who was brutally beaten, stabbed and had two of her teeth pulled out by her ex-husband, who was already on a restraining order.....to do to stop the attack.....?

The woman who was violently gang raped by a group of men in the London park....what do you want her to do to keep from being violently gang raped again?

Please answer.....be brave.....

I have built a time machine....I offer you the opportunity to go back in time and to the scenes of the crimes I posted...the woman facing the 2 men who also had a baseball bat, who pulled out her gun and the two guys ran away.....and the woman who was attacked in the parking garage, who was stabbed repeatedly until she managed to get her gun and shoot him, stopping the attack and saving her life......

Now...with my time machine...you can sneak back and take those guns away from those women before the attacks...they will not have those guns.....

Do you do it?

 

[2aguy]

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly a many. We should do what they are doing.

London does not have a drug-gang industry fueled by Fatherless poor Black communities like the US does. Replicate our inner cities in London and their statistics would be in line with ours.

So you think Americans are just inherently violent people? You might think having so many guns might have something to do with that.

No what i think is that the violence in the inner cities that is the main contributor to our murder rate is at best not seen as important by the governments of those cities and at worst it is actually accepted as some means to an end.

The fact is that the murder rates of just a handful of cities is skewing the rate of the entire country and what's more these pockets of violence with very high murder rates are so small and isolated that an area of just a few square city blocks can have a murder rate that is 10 or 15 times the national average while an adjacent similar sized area in the same city will have a murder rate far less than the national average.

We all know this, the cops know this, the city and state governments know this but for some reason they all choose to ignore it because it's mostly young poor minority males killing other young poor minority males

Exactly......and the problem for Europe? They think that crime is static....that their culture, values and justice system will always keep the monsters at bay.........they are starting to see that this isn't the case.........World War 1 and 2 slowed down Europe when it came to crime.........they are now reaching the point that the U.S. found itself in in the 1950s....as criminals transitioned from knives to guns..........and more and more violence......

We kill 55 people with guns for every 1 person they kill with guns. We should be doing what they are doing.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We have an inner city murder problem because we want to have an inner city murder problem

I suppose it is easy to make that claim, but I've never seen anyone be able to prove it.

The proof is in the statistics.

Inner city murders aren't solved because the powers that be don't want them to be solved

If you really were concerned about the murder rate you would want to find out where most murders occur and why they occur in those places and it isn't because of guns. In fact there are actually fewer guns per capita in urban areas than rural areas yet murder rates are the highest in cities and most of those murders are concentrated in very small geographic areas.

Like I said we all know where the most murders take place and the cops and city officials sure as hell know it too but nothing ever seems to be done about it

Didn't you just say murders weren't worth concerning ourselves with? Again, you make the accusation that nobody wants to prevent murders any more than you do, but don't present any proof that is true. Just like always.

Murder isn't a concern for most people.

I never said I wanted to prevent murders more than anyone else if you think I did then quote it.

What I said was that everyone, even you, know where most murders take place but most people, even you, don't seem to want to do anything about it.

Higher crime rates, including murder rates around the world are tied to the same thing. Poverty and inequality. Studies have shown this to be true whether it be a town or entire country, the higher the poverty and inequality rates, the higher the crime rates. What exactly do you think should be done to reduce crime in the inner cities? We've tried the get tough strategy, and it just made things worse. What do you think should be done?

Ask a sociologist.

I do know that making it harder for law abiding people to own guns won't do anything

Sociologists have already answered that question. Relieve the poverty and inequality in those areas.

So does that mean you will stop trying to say gun control will be the answer to our murder rate?

I never said gun control is THE answer to our murder rate. I don't think there is one all encompassing answer. Reasonable gun control would help.

Here are some ideas that will work...

1) keep violent, repeat gun offenders locked up in prison....for 30-life.

2) work to get families to stay together, to not have children until they are married......our democrat party controlled cities have minority out of wedlock birthrates of over 70%...that is what causes crime and poverty....that causes murder...

3) stop attacking the police....the democrat party war on police is increasing the murder rate, in particular the black and hispanic murder rate......by attacking the police...defunding the police, the democrat party is increasing our crime rates.....

4) for the rarest of rare gun crimes...mass public shootings....

a. get rid of gun free zones. mass shooters target gun free zones.

b. work to improve parental and organizational awareness of the dangerously mentally ill........

There......very specific policies that actually target gun murder.....

Nothing you want does anything ....

1--Good idea.
2--Good idea too. Wait a second...your idol Trump was divorced 3 times. His attorney was divorced 3 times or so....your talk radio god was divorced 3 times or so. Damn democrats!
3--Perhaps you guys should stop killing/injuring cops when elections don't go your way.

I've seen Trump's kids....they aren't in gangs shooting drug dealers....

Out of Wedlock birth in the black community is over 70%.....young black males make up about 7% of the population but over 50% of murder...the victims are primarily other young black males.....mostly criminals......

That is the problem...fatherless homes..our prisons are filled with men who did not have fathers in their lives...but their mothers had welfare checks....

 

[candycorn]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

I strongly prefer the Dutch model (i'm a Dutch citizen).
we have a population of over 17 million people, yet violent crime has decreased from +-9100 incidents in 20210 to +-3500 incidents in 2020.

only the police are allowed guns in this country, and guns hardly ever get abused. years between "school shootings" (the last one i can remember was over 8 years ago, and involved a crazy man walking into a supermarket and shooting people).

you people in the US however, have dozens of incidents per week where guns are used against random strangers.

and lastly, we have a rich history of martial arts schools in this country.
and it's perfectly possible to stop a robbery or rape attempt without a gun. it's just different training. which you can find on youtube for instance, i recommend a search for 'silat' and 'systema'.

Tell that to Sweden...they are experiencing violent gun crime at higher rates than the rest of Europe....

Americans use their guns 1.1 million times a year to stop brutal rapes, beatings, knifings, robberies and murders.....we have a political party that keeps releasing the most violent criminals back onto our streets....

As you live in a tiny country, with a homogenous population, you are lucky......you don't have a political party releasing violent criminals, and you don't have 3rd world immigrants taking over your drug trade......

Statistics were debunked long ago.

There are nowhere near a million defensive gun uses per year.

That would be 2,740 a day, every day.

Put another way, that would be about 115 an hour, every hour, every day.

Visually....everyone you see in these 10 pictures of the stadium....would have had to have used a gun in self defense in a year.


The cartoonish figure has been debunked over and over again....

The figure is closer to about 80,000 and many of those are passive gun displays...not active gun uses.


Ask yourself...do you know anyone who has had to have a shoot out with someone? No.
Do you know anyone who knows anyone who has had a shoot out with someone? No.

From actual professional researchers from both private and government research groups including the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice....in a country of now over 320 million people, with 600 million guns in private hands, and over 19.4 million Americans legally carrying guns for self defense in public....

Do you know the difference in size between 320,000,000.....600,000,000.....19,400,000

And 80,000?

Keep in mind....the majority of those doing the following research...were anti-gunners...including Gary Kleck......

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

Few people have used a gun in self defense
Few people know anyone who has used a gun in self defense.
Few people know anyone who knows anyone who has used a gun in self defense.

Your statistic is comedic and I'm being polite.

You say that without any backup.....the very first post a moderator told me since this is the CDZ I had to provide links to my numbers....I did...you have not......

I provided a list of 17 studies by professional research groups, both private and government, most of them anti-gun, using modern research methods....including the vaunted Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice...

You just make claims......

How many gunfights have you been in personally?

Me? None......yet.

Well, you're a reasonably old man, right....probably between 18 and 60 somewhere. However old you are, according to you, there were over a million gun defenses ever year. I'm in my 50's. I have never been in a gun fight....I know nobody (outside of a few cops) who have seen hostile gunfire a few times--independent of military action. Thats is allegedly 50,000,000 defensive gun uses. And nobody I know and nobody whom they know....knows of anyone who was in a gunfight.

So my question is now this...lets say you're 30. That means during your "life", there were supposedly 30M defensive gun uses if you believe your silly statistic. Keep in mind, 30M people--that is more than live in Houston, Dallas, Austin, San Antonio, El Paso, the Valley---the entire population of Texas.

How many people do you personally know (outside of cops) who have been in a gunfight? Just a number please...save your silly mumbo jumbo for someone who cares. That ain't me.

Me...still none.....

Look...your stat says where are over a million defensive gun uses a year. You know it's BS. But you keep bringing it out. I'm using your stat that there are 126 gunfights an hour...every hour of every day in this nation. Its seems strange that you haven't been involved in any of them or know anyone who has been involved in any of them.

I don't know how old you are but lets say you're 35.

That is 35,000,000+ defensive gun uses you've never heard of? You have never been in a shoot out, you don't know anyone who has been in a shoot out? How is that possible?

Lets add that to the 50,000,000+ million supposed uses that I have no knowledge of. I doubt we move in the same circles or know the same folks.

So that is 80,000,000+ gun uses that supposedly happened--that neither of us have participated in or know of anyone who has participated in.

More remarkably, like 79,000,000+ of the 80,000,000+ shoot outs you'd have us believe happened haven't been covered by the local papers, the local news station on TV, radio, etc...

Must be some sort of conspiracy. LOL.

It's not BS...

Hey...according to you, between us there have been 80,000,000+ defensive gun uses. Yet neither of us have done it or know anyone who has done it. Whatsmore is that way over 79,000,000+ of these gunfights have not been reported on the news.

Your stats....you know they are BS. Yet it's what you're hanging your hat (and yourself) on.

 

[candycorn]

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly a many. We should do what they are doing.

London does not have a drug-gang industry fueled by Fatherless poor Black communities like the US does. Replicate our inner cities in London and their statistics would be in line with ours.

So you think Americans are just inherently violent people? You might think having so many guns might have something to do with that.

No what i think is that the violence in the inner cities that is the main contributor to our murder rate is at best not seen as important by the governments of those cities and at worst it is actually accepted as some means to an end.

The fact is that the murder rates of just a handful of cities is skewing the rate of the entire country and what's more these pockets of violence with very high murder rates are so small and isolated that an area of just a few square city blocks can have a murder rate that is 10 or 15 times the national average while an adjacent similar sized area in the same city will have a murder rate far less than the national average.

We all know this, the cops know this, the city and state governments know this but for some reason they all choose to ignore it because it's mostly young poor minority males killing other young poor minority males

Exactly......and the problem for Europe? They think that crime is static....that their culture, values and justice system will always keep the monsters at bay.........they are starting to see that this isn't the case.........World War 1 and 2 slowed down Europe when it came to crime.........they are now reaching the point that the U.S. found itself in in the 1950s....as criminals transitioned from knives to guns..........and more and more violence......

We kill 55 people with guns for every 1 person they kill with guns. We should be doing what they are doing.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We have an inner city murder problem because we want to have an inner city murder problem

I suppose it is easy to make that claim, but I've never seen anyone be able to prove it.

The proof is in the statistics.

Inner city murders aren't solved because the powers that be don't want them to be solved

If you really were concerned about the murder rate you would want to find out where most murders occur and why they occur in those places and it isn't because of guns. In fact there are actually fewer guns per capita in urban areas than rural areas yet murder rates are the highest in cities and most of those murders are concentrated in very small geographic areas.

Like I said we all know where the most murders take place and the cops and city officials sure as hell know it too but nothing ever seems to be done about it

Didn't you just say murders weren't worth concerning ourselves with? Again, you make the accusation that nobody wants to prevent murders any more than you do, but don't present any proof that is true. Just like always.

Murder isn't a concern for most people.

I never said I wanted to prevent murders more than anyone else if you think I did then quote it.

What I said was that everyone, even you, know where most murders take place but most people, even you, don't seem to want to do anything about it.

Higher crime rates, including murder rates around the world are tied to the same thing. Poverty and inequality. Studies have shown this to be true whether it be a town or entire country, the higher the poverty and inequality rates, the higher the crime rates. What exactly do you think should be done to reduce crime in the inner cities? We've tried the get tough strategy, and it just made things worse. What do you think should be done?

Ask a sociologist.

I do know that making it harder for law abiding people to own guns won't do anything

Sociologists have already answered that question. Relieve the poverty and inequality in those areas.

So does that mean you will stop trying to say gun control will be the answer to our murder rate?

I never said gun control is THE answer to our murder rate. I don't think there is one all encompassing answer. Reasonable gun control would help.

Here are some ideas that will work...

1) keep violent, repeat gun offenders locked up in prison....for 30-life.

2) work to get families to stay together, to not have children until they are married......our democrat party controlled cities have minority out of wedlock birthrates of over 70%...that is what causes crime and poverty....that causes murder...

3) stop attacking the police....the democrat party war on police is increasing the murder rate, in particular the black and hispanic murder rate......by attacking the police...defunding the police, the democrat party is increasing our crime rates.....

4) for the rarest of rare gun crimes...mass public shootings....

a. get rid of gun free zones. mass shooters target gun free zones.

b. work to improve parental and organizational awareness of the dangerously mentally ill........

There......very specific policies that actually target gun murder.....

Nothing you want does anything ....

1--Good idea.
2--Good idea too. Wait a second...your idol Trump was divorced 3 times. His attorney was divorced 3 times or so....your talk radio god was divorced 3 times or so. Damn democrats!
3--Perhaps you guys should stop killing/injuring cops when elections don't go your way.

Just like republicans used to be the party for blacks, trump was a democrat the last time he got a divorce.

Very true.

 

[candycorn]

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly a many. We should do what they are doing.

London does not have a drug-gang industry fueled by Fatherless poor Black communities like the US does. Replicate our inner cities in London and their statistics would be in line with ours.

So you think Americans are just inherently violent people? You might think having so many guns might have something to do with that.

No what i think is that the violence in the inner cities that is the main contributor to our murder rate is at best not seen as important by the governments of those cities and at worst it is actually accepted as some means to an end.

The fact is that the murder rates of just a handful of cities is skewing the rate of the entire country and what's more these pockets of violence with very high murder rates are so small and isolated that an area of just a few square city blocks can have a murder rate that is 10 or 15 times the national average while an adjacent similar sized area in the same city will have a murder rate far less than the national average.

We all know this, the cops know this, the city and state governments know this but for some reason they all choose to ignore it because it's mostly young poor minority males killing other young poor minority males

Exactly......and the problem for Europe? They think that crime is static....that their culture, values and justice system will always keep the monsters at bay.........they are starting to see that this isn't the case.........World War 1 and 2 slowed down Europe when it came to crime.........they are now reaching the point that the U.S. found itself in in the 1950s....as criminals transitioned from knives to guns..........and more and more violence......

We kill 55 people with guns for every 1 person they kill with guns. We should be doing what they are doing.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We have an inner city murder problem because we want to have an inner city murder problem

I suppose it is easy to make that claim, but I've never seen anyone be able to prove it.

The proof is in the statistics.

Inner city murders aren't solved because the powers that be don't want them to be solved

If you really were concerned about the murder rate you would want to find out where most murders occur and why they occur in those places and it isn't because of guns. In fact there are actually fewer guns per capita in urban areas than rural areas yet murder rates are the highest in cities and most of those murders are concentrated in very small geographic areas.

Like I said we all know where the most murders take place and the cops and city officials sure as hell know it too but nothing ever seems to be done about it

Didn't you just say murders weren't worth concerning ourselves with? Again, you make the accusation that nobody wants to prevent murders any more than you do, but don't present any proof that is true. Just like always.

Murder isn't a concern for most people.

I never said I wanted to prevent murders more than anyone else if you think I did then quote it.

What I said was that everyone, even you, know where most murders take place but most people, even you, don't seem to want to do anything about it.

Higher crime rates, including murder rates around the world are tied to the same thing. Poverty and inequality. Studies have shown this to be true whether it be a town or entire country, the higher the poverty and inequality rates, the higher the crime rates. What exactly do you think should be done to reduce crime in the inner cities? We've tried the get tough strategy, and it just made things worse. What do you think should be done?

Ask a sociologist.

I do know that making it harder for law abiding people to own guns won't do anything

Sociologists have already answered that question. Relieve the poverty and inequality in those areas.

So does that mean you will stop trying to say gun control will be the answer to our murder rate?

I never said gun control is THE answer to our murder rate. I don't think there is one all encompassing answer. Reasonable gun control would help.

Here are some ideas that will work...

1) keep violent, repeat gun offenders locked up in prison....for 30-life.

2) work to get families to stay together, to not have children until they are married......our democrat party controlled cities have minority out of wedlock birthrates of over 70%...that is what causes crime and poverty....that causes murder...

3) stop attacking the police....the democrat party war on police is increasing the murder rate, in particular the black and hispanic murder rate......by attacking the police...defunding the police, the democrat party is increasing our crime rates.....

4) for the rarest of rare gun crimes...mass public shootings....

a. get rid of gun free zones. mass shooters target gun free zones.

b. work to improve parental and organizational awareness of the dangerously mentally ill........

There......very specific policies that actually target gun murder.....

Nothing you want does anything ....

1--Good idea.
2--Good idea too. Wait a second...your idol Trump was divorced 3 times. His attorney was divorced 3 times or so....your talk radio god was divorced 3 times or so. Damn democrats!
3--Perhaps you guys should stop killing/injuring cops when elections don't go your way.

I've seen Trump's kids....they aren't in gangs shooting drug dealers....

Out of Wedlock birth in the black community is over 70%.....young black males make up about 7% of the population but over 50% of murder...the victims are primarily other young black males.....mostly criminals......

That is the problem...fatherless homes..our prisons are filled with men who did not have fathers in their lives...but their mothers had welfare checks....

Ahh, the race card is out! Its always a matter of time with trump supporters.

 

[Rigby5]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly as many. We should do what they are doing.
View attachment 496928

I agree we kill way too many people, but I don't think legal guns have anything to do with it.
Just like Prohibition caused a huge increase in shooting, by factor of 10, so had the War on Drugs.
Making something illegal means profits go up, but they then have to deal only in cash, no checks, credit cards, or banks.
The rest of the world also has much better education, health care, etc.
Guns have nothing to do with it, because drug dealers always have to be armed and get guns illegally.
So gun control laws can not have any effect on these illegal gun sources.

I’m a drug dealer and all my guns are legal

It is far riskier for a drug dealer to have legal guns than illegal ones, because the police then have a list of all the drug dealers just by seeing who purchased pistols.
Since drug dealers have connections to illegal wholesalers outside the country, then it is easier and cheaper for them to buy pistols illegally from the same sources they get their illegal drugs from.

 

[2aguy]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

I strongly prefer the Dutch model (i'm a Dutch citizen).
we have a population of over 17 million people, yet violent crime has decreased from +-9100 incidents in 20210 to +-3500 incidents in 2020.

only the police are allowed guns in this country, and guns hardly ever get abused. years between "school shootings" (the last one i can remember was over 8 years ago, and involved a crazy man walking into a supermarket and shooting people).

you people in the US however, have dozens of incidents per week where guns are used against random strangers.

and lastly, we have a rich history of martial arts schools in this country.
and it's perfectly possible to stop a robbery or rape attempt without a gun. it's just different training. which you can find on youtube for instance, i recommend a search for 'silat' and 'systema'.

Tell that to Sweden...they are experiencing violent gun crime at higher rates than the rest of Europe....

Americans use their guns 1.1 million times a year to stop brutal rapes, beatings, knifings, robberies and murders.....we have a political party that keeps releasing the most violent criminals back onto our streets....

As you live in a tiny country, with a homogenous population, you are lucky......you don't have a political party releasing violent criminals, and you don't have 3rd world immigrants taking over your drug trade......

Statistics were debunked long ago.

There are nowhere near a million defensive gun uses per year.

That would be 2,740 a day, every day.

Put another way, that would be about 115 an hour, every hour, every day.

Visually....everyone you see in these 10 pictures of the stadium....would have had to have used a gun in self defense in a year.


The cartoonish figure has been debunked over and over again....

The figure is closer to about 80,000 and many of those are passive gun displays...not active gun uses.


Ask yourself...do you know anyone who has had to have a shoot out with someone? No.
Do you know anyone who knows anyone who has had a shoot out with someone? No.

From actual professional researchers from both private and government research groups including the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice....in a country of now over 320 million people, with 600 million guns in private hands, and over 19.4 million Americans legally carrying guns for self defense in public....

Do you know the difference in size between 320,000,000.....600,000,000.....19,400,000

And 80,000?

Keep in mind....the majority of those doing the following research...were anti-gunners...including Gary Kleck......

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

Few people have used a gun in self defense
Few people know anyone who has used a gun in self defense.
Few people know anyone who knows anyone who has used a gun in self defense.

Your statistic is comedic and I'm being polite.

You say that without any backup.....the very first post a moderator told me since this is the CDZ I had to provide links to my numbers....I did...you have not......

I provided a list of 17 studies by professional research groups, both private and government, most of them anti-gun, using modern research methods....including the vaunted Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice...

You just make claims......

How many gunfights have you been in personally?

Me? None......yet.

Well, you're a reasonably old man, right....probably between 18 and 60 somewhere. However old you are, according to you, there were over a million gun defenses ever year. I'm in my 50's. I have never been in a gun fight....I know nobody (outside of a few cops) who have seen hostile gunfire a few times--independent of military action. Thats is allegedly 50,000,000 defensive gun uses. And nobody I know and nobody whom they know....knows of anyone who was in a gunfight.

So my question is now this...lets say you're 30. That means during your "life", there were supposedly 30M defensive gun uses if you believe your silly statistic. Keep in mind, 30M people--that is more than live in Houston, Dallas, Austin, San Antonio, El Paso, the Valley---the entire population of Texas.

How many people do you personally know (outside of cops) who have been in a gunfight? Just a number please...save your silly mumbo jumbo for someone who cares. That ain't me.

Me...still none.....

Look...your stat says where are over a million defensive gun uses a year. You know it's BS. But you keep bringing it out. I'm using your stat that there are 126 gunfights an hour...every hour of every day in this nation. Its seems strange that you haven't been involved in any of them or know anyone who has been involved in any of them.

I don't know how old you are but lets say you're 35.

That is 35,000,000+ defensive gun uses you've never heard of? You have never been in a shoot out, you don't know anyone who has been in a shoot out? How is that possible?

Lets add that to the 50,000,000+ million supposed uses that I have no knowledge of. I doubt we move in the same circles or know the same folks.

So that is 80,000,000+ gun uses that supposedly happened--that neither of us have participated in or know of anyone who has participated in.

More remarkably, like 79,000,000+ of the 80,000,000+ shoot outs you'd have us believe happened haven't been covered by the local papers, the local news station on TV, radio, etc...

Must be some sort of conspiracy. LOL.

It's not BS...

Hey...according to you, between us there have been 80,000,000+ defensive gun uses. Yet neither of us have done it or know anyone who has done it. Whatsmore is that way over 79,000,000+ of these gunfights have not been reported on the news.

Your stats....you know they are BS. Yet it's what you're hanging your hat (and yourself) on.

Thanks...I always enjoy the opportunity to post the actual studies.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

 

[Rigby5]

...

Well, you're a reasonably old man, right....probably between 18 and 60 somewhere. However old you are, according to you, there were over a million gun defenses ever year. I'm in my 50's. I have never been in a gun fight....I know nobody (outside of a few cops) who have seen hostile gunfire a few times--independent of military action. Thats is allegedly 50,000,000 defensive gun uses. And nobody I know and nobody whom they know....knows of anyone who was in a gunfight.

So my question is now this...lets say you're 30. That means during your "life", there were supposedly 30M defensive gun uses if you believe your silly statistic. Keep in mind, 30M people--that is more than live in Houston, Dallas, Austin, San Antonio, El Paso, the Valley---the entire population of Texas.

How many people do you personally know (outside of cops) who have been in a gunfight? Just a number please...save your silly mumbo jumbo for someone who cares. That ain't me.

Me...still none.....

Look...your stat says where are over a million defensive gun uses a year. You know it's BS. But you keep bringing it out. I'm using your stat that there are 126 gunfights an hour...every hour of every day in this nation. Its seems strange that you haven't been involved in any of them or know anyone who has been involved in any of them.

I don't know how old you are but lets say you're 35.

That is 35,000,000+ defensive gun uses you've never heard of? You have never been in a shoot out, you don't know anyone who has been in a shoot out? How is that possible?

Lets add that to the 50,000,000+ million supposed uses that I have no knowledge of. I doubt we move in the same circles or know the same folks.

So that is 80,000,000+ gun uses that supposedly happened--that neither of us have participated in or know of anyone who has participated in.

More remarkably, like 79,000,000+ of the 80,000,000+ shoot outs you'd have us believe happened haven't been covered by the local papers, the local news station on TV, radio, etc...

Must be some sort of conspiracy. LOL.

There are over 1 million successful serious violent crimes every year, so since most crimes are unsuccessful, it is not at all hard to believe that over 1 million attempts are stopped by someone with a gun.

But your mistake is then assuming there has to be a shoot out.
Almost always, just brandishing is sufficient.
Stats say each person will be the victim of a violent crime 2.5 times in their lives.

You also are using stats wrong.
About 3 million people die and new people born every year, so over a 35 year period, that is about 100 million additional people you have to add the population average of 330 million, for a total of more like 440 million.

 

[2aguy]

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly a many. We should do what they are doing.

London does not have a drug-gang industry fueled by Fatherless poor Black communities like the US does. Replicate our inner cities in London and their statistics would be in line with ours.

So you think Americans are just inherently violent people? You might think having so many guns might have something to do with that.

No what i think is that the violence in the inner cities that is the main contributor to our murder rate is at best not seen as important by the governments of those cities and at worst it is actually accepted as some means to an end.

The fact is that the murder rates of just a handful of cities is skewing the rate of the entire country and what's more these pockets of violence with very high murder rates are so small and isolated that an area of just a few square city blocks can have a murder rate that is 10 or 15 times the national average while an adjacent similar sized area in the same city will have a murder rate far less than the national average.

We all know this, the cops know this, the city and state governments know this but for some reason they all choose to ignore it because it's mostly young poor minority males killing other young poor minority males

Exactly......and the problem for Europe? They think that crime is static....that their culture, values and justice system will always keep the monsters at bay.........they are starting to see that this isn't the case.........World War 1 and 2 slowed down Europe when it came to crime.........they are now reaching the point that the U.S. found itself in in the 1950s....as criminals transitioned from knives to guns..........and more and more violence......

We kill 55 people with guns for every 1 person they kill with guns. We should be doing what they are doing.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We have an inner city murder problem because we want to have an inner city murder problem

I suppose it is easy to make that claim, but I've never seen anyone be able to prove it.

The proof is in the statistics.

Inner city murders aren't solved because the powers that be don't want them to be solved

If you really were concerned about the murder rate you would want to find out where most murders occur and why they occur in those places and it isn't because of guns. In fact there are actually fewer guns per capita in urban areas than rural areas yet murder rates are the highest in cities and most of those murders are concentrated in very small geographic areas.

Like I said we all know where the most murders take place and the cops and city officials sure as hell know it too but nothing ever seems to be done about it

Didn't you just say murders weren't worth concerning ourselves with? Again, you make the accusation that nobody wants to prevent murders any more than you do, but don't present any proof that is true. Just like always.

Murder isn't a concern for most people.

I never said I wanted to prevent murders more than anyone else if you think I did then quote it.

What I said was that everyone, even you, know where most murders take place but most people, even you, don't seem to want to do anything about it.

Higher crime rates, including murder rates around the world are tied to the same thing. Poverty and inequality. Studies have shown this to be true whether it be a town or entire country, the higher the poverty and inequality rates, the higher the crime rates. What exactly do you think should be done to reduce crime in the inner cities? We've tried the get tough strategy, and it just made things worse. What do you think should be done?

Ask a sociologist.

I do know that making it harder for law abiding people to own guns won't do anything

Sociologists have already answered that question. Relieve the poverty and inequality in those areas.

So does that mean you will stop trying to say gun control will be the answer to our murder rate?

I never said gun control is THE answer to our murder rate. I don't think there is one all encompassing answer. Reasonable gun control would help.

Here are some ideas that will work...

1) keep violent, repeat gun offenders locked up in prison....for 30-life.

2) work to get families to stay together, to not have children until they are married......our democrat party controlled cities have minority out of wedlock birthrates of over 70%...that is what causes crime and poverty....that causes murder...

3) stop attacking the police....the democrat party war on police is increasing the murder rate, in particular the black and hispanic murder rate......by attacking the police...defunding the police, the democrat party is increasing our crime rates.....

4) for the rarest of rare gun crimes...mass public shootings....

a. get rid of gun free zones. mass shooters target gun free zones.

b. work to improve parental and organizational awareness of the dangerously mentally ill........

There......very specific policies that actually target gun murder.....

Nothing you want does anything ....

1--Good idea.
2--Good idea too. Wait a second...your idol Trump was divorced 3 times. His attorney was divorced 3 times or so....your talk radio god was divorced 3 times or so. Damn democrats!
3--Perhaps you guys should stop killing/injuring cops when elections don't go your way.

I've seen Trump's kids....they aren't in gangs shooting drug dealers....

Out of Wedlock birth in the black community is over 70%.....young black males make up about 7% of the population but over 50% of murder...the victims are primarily other young black males.....mostly criminals......

That is the problem...fatherless homes..our prisons are filled with men who did not have fathers in their lives...but their mothers had welfare checks....

Ahh, the race card is out! Its always a matter of time with trump supporters.

The race card?

You really don't understand truth, facts or reality.........the democrat party has destroyed the black family with their policies...now young black men, in homes without fathers, are destroying their lives and the lives of other black Americans at horrible rates......

But to protect the democrat party, you will run from the facts and thus, refuse to fix the problem.

 

[Blues Man]

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly a many. We should do what they are doing.

London does not have a drug-gang industry fueled by Fatherless poor Black communities like the US does. Replicate our inner cities in London and their statistics would be in line with ours.

So you think Americans are just inherently violent people? You might think having so many guns might have something to do with that.

No what i think is that the violence in the inner cities that is the main contributor to our murder rate is at best not seen as important by the governments of those cities and at worst it is actually accepted as some means to an end.

The fact is that the murder rates of just a handful of cities is skewing the rate of the entire country and what's more these pockets of violence with very high murder rates are so small and isolated that an area of just a few square city blocks can have a murder rate that is 10 or 15 times the national average while an adjacent similar sized area in the same city will have a murder rate far less than the national average.

We all know this, the cops know this, the city and state governments know this but for some reason they all choose to ignore it because it's mostly young poor minority males killing other young poor minority males

Exactly......and the problem for Europe? They think that crime is static....that their culture, values and justice system will always keep the monsters at bay.........they are starting to see that this isn't the case.........World War 1 and 2 slowed down Europe when it came to crime.........they are now reaching the point that the U.S. found itself in in the 1950s....as criminals transitioned from knives to guns..........and more and more violence......

We kill 55 people with guns for every 1 person they kill with guns. We should be doing what they are doing.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We have an inner city murder problem because we want to have an inner city murder problem

I suppose it is easy to make that claim, but I've never seen anyone be able to prove it.

The proof is in the statistics.

Inner city murders aren't solved because the powers that be don't want them to be solved

If you really were concerned about the murder rate you would want to find out where most murders occur and why they occur in those places and it isn't because of guns. In fact there are actually fewer guns per capita in urban areas than rural areas yet murder rates are the highest in cities and most of those murders are concentrated in very small geographic areas.

Like I said we all know where the most murders take place and the cops and city officials sure as hell know it too but nothing ever seems to be done about it

Didn't you just say murders weren't worth concerning ourselves with? Again, you make the accusation that nobody wants to prevent murders any more than you do, but don't present any proof that is true. Just like always.

Murder isn't a concern for most people.

I never said I wanted to prevent murders more than anyone else if you think I did then quote it.

What I said was that everyone, even you, know where most murders take place but most people, even you, don't seem to want to do anything about it.

Higher crime rates, including murder rates around the world are tied to the same thing. Poverty and inequality. Studies have shown this to be true whether it be a town or entire country, the higher the poverty and inequality rates, the higher the crime rates. What exactly do you think should be done to reduce crime in the inner cities? We've tried the get tough strategy, and it just made things worse. What do you think should be done?

Ask a sociologist.

I do know that making it harder for law abiding people to own guns won't do anything

Sociologists have already answered that question. Relieve the poverty and inequality in those areas.

So does that mean you will stop trying to say gun control will be the answer to our murder rate?

I never said gun control is THE answer to our murder rate. I don't think there is one all encompassing answer. Reasonable gun control would help.

We already have reasonable gun control laws we just don't enforce them.

And you certainly seem to think gun control will lower our murder rate since you constantly compare the US to the UK and say we should do what they do which is basically ban guns

Can't argue with success. What they do works.

And yet guns are not the cause of our higher murder rate.

So maybe instead of their gun control you should be more in favor of their social policies.

75% of our murders are done with guns. Yes, they relate to the high murder rate.

But you said the cause of the violence where most murders occur is poverty not guns.

And you don't seem to realize that the guns used in all that violence so rampant in our inner cities and that skews the crime rates for the entire country are not obtained legally.

So once again making it harder for people who own gun legally to obtain them will do nothing that lowers the crime and violence in our inner cities that you say are caused by poverty.

And just to remind you: There is a .003% chance that you will be murdered by a person with a gun and there is a .004% chance of you getting murdered by anyone.

Are you really afraid of getting murdered ?

 

[candycorn]

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....

Are military defensive gun uses really applicable to any argument about domestic violence?

You're desperate. Delicious.

 

[candycorn]

...

Well, you're a reasonably old man, right....probably between 18 and 60 somewhere. However old you are, according to you, there were over a million gun defenses ever year. I'm in my 50's. I have never been in a gun fight....I know nobody (outside of a few cops) who have seen hostile gunfire a few times--independent of military action. Thats is allegedly 50,000,000 defensive gun uses. And nobody I know and nobody whom they know....knows of anyone who was in a gunfight.

So my question is now this...lets say you're 30. That means during your "life", there were supposedly 30M defensive gun uses if you believe your silly statistic. Keep in mind, 30M people--that is more than live in Houston, Dallas, Austin, San Antonio, El Paso, the Valley---the entire population of Texas.

How many people do you personally know (outside of cops) who have been in a gunfight? Just a number please...save your silly mumbo jumbo for someone who cares. That ain't me.

Me...still none.....

Look...your stat says where are over a million defensive gun uses a year. You know it's BS. But you keep bringing it out. I'm using your stat that there are 126 gunfights an hour...every hour of every day in this nation. Its seems strange that you haven't been involved in any of them or know anyone who has been involved in any of them.

I don't know how old you are but lets say you're 35.

That is 35,000,000+ defensive gun uses you've never heard of? You have never been in a shoot out, you don't know anyone who has been in a shoot out? How is that possible?

Lets add that to the 50,000,000+ million supposed uses that I have no knowledge of. I doubt we move in the same circles or know the same folks.

So that is 80,000,000+ gun uses that supposedly happened--that neither of us have participated in or know of anyone who has participated in.

More remarkably, like 79,000,000+ of the 80,000,000+ shoot outs you'd have us believe happened haven't been covered by the local papers, the local news station on TV, radio, etc...

Must be some sort of conspiracy. LOL.

There are over 1 million successful serious violent crimes every year, so since most crimes are unsuccessful, it is not at all hard to believe that over 1 million attempts are stopped by someone with a gun.

But your mistake is then assuming there has to be a shoot out.
Almost always, just brandishing is sufficient.
Stats say each person will be the victim of a violent crime 2.5 times in their lives.

You also are using stats wrong.
About 3 million people die and new people born every year, so over a 35 year period, that is about 100 million additional people you have to add the population average of 330 million, for a total of more like 440 million.

So for every knife attack, there is a defensive knife use?
So for every hatchet attack, there is a defensive hatchet use?
So for every attempt at poisoning, there is a defensive poisoning use?

You're really making the larger argument about gun nuts being unhinged a more sound argument.

 

[candycorn]

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly a many. We should do what they are doing.

London does not have a drug-gang industry fueled by Fatherless poor Black communities like the US does. Replicate our inner cities in London and their statistics would be in line with ours.

So you think Americans are just inherently violent people? You might think having so many guns might have something to do with that.

No what i think is that the violence in the inner cities that is the main contributor to our murder rate is at best not seen as important by the governments of those cities and at worst it is actually accepted as some means to an end.

The fact is that the murder rates of just a handful of cities is skewing the rate of the entire country and what's more these pockets of violence with very high murder rates are so small and isolated that an area of just a few square city blocks can have a murder rate that is 10 or 15 times the national average while an adjacent similar sized area in the same city will have a murder rate far less than the national average.

We all know this, the cops know this, the city and state governments know this but for some reason they all choose to ignore it because it's mostly young poor minority males killing other young poor minority males

Exactly......and the problem for Europe? They think that crime is static....that their culture, values and justice system will always keep the monsters at bay.........they are starting to see that this isn't the case.........World War 1 and 2 slowed down Europe when it came to crime.........they are now reaching the point that the U.S. found itself in in the 1950s....as criminals transitioned from knives to guns..........and more and more violence......

We kill 55 people with guns for every 1 person they kill with guns. We should be doing what they are doing.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We have an inner city murder problem because we want to have an inner city murder problem

I suppose it is easy to make that claim, but I've never seen anyone be able to prove it.

The proof is in the statistics.

Inner city murders aren't solved because the powers that be don't want them to be solved

If you really were concerned about the murder rate you would want to find out where most murders occur and why they occur in those places and it isn't because of guns. In fact there are actually fewer guns per capita in urban areas than rural areas yet murder rates are the highest in cities and most of those murders are concentrated in very small geographic areas.

Like I said we all know where the most murders take place and the cops and city officials sure as hell know it too but nothing ever seems to be done about it

Didn't you just say murders weren't worth concerning ourselves with? Again, you make the accusation that nobody wants to prevent murders any more than you do, but don't present any proof that is true. Just like always.

Murder isn't a concern for most people.

I never said I wanted to prevent murders more than anyone else if you think I did then quote it.

What I said was that everyone, even you, know where most murders take place but most people, even you, don't seem to want to do anything about it.

Higher crime rates, including murder rates around the world are tied to the same thing. Poverty and inequality. Studies have shown this to be true whether it be a town or entire country, the higher the poverty and inequality rates, the higher the crime rates. What exactly do you think should be done to reduce crime in the inner cities? We've tried the get tough strategy, and it just made things worse. What do you think should be done?

Ask a sociologist.

I do know that making it harder for law abiding people to own guns won't do anything

Sociologists have already answered that question. Relieve the poverty and inequality in those areas.

So does that mean you will stop trying to say gun control will be the answer to our murder rate?

I never said gun control is THE answer to our murder rate. I don't think there is one all encompassing answer. Reasonable gun control would help.

Here are some ideas that will work...

1) keep violent, repeat gun offenders locked up in prison....for 30-life.

2) work to get families to stay together, to not have children until they are married......our democrat party controlled cities have minority out of wedlock birthrates of over 70%...that is what causes crime and poverty....that causes murder...

3) stop attacking the police....the democrat party war on police is increasing the murder rate, in particular the black and hispanic murder rate......by attacking the police...defunding the police, the democrat party is increasing our crime rates.....

4) for the rarest of rare gun crimes...mass public shootings....

a. get rid of gun free zones. mass shooters target gun free zones.

b. work to improve parental and organizational awareness of the dangerously mentally ill........

There......very specific policies that actually target gun murder.....

Nothing you want does anything ....

1--Good idea.
2--Good idea too. Wait a second...your idol Trump was divorced 3 times. His attorney was divorced 3 times or so....your talk radio god was divorced 3 times or so. Damn democrats!
3--Perhaps you guys should stop killing/injuring cops when elections don't go your way.

I've seen Trump's kids....they aren't in gangs shooting drug dealers....

Out of Wedlock birth in the black community is over 70%.....young black males make up about 7% of the population but over 50% of murder...the victims are primarily other young black males.....mostly criminals......

That is the problem...fatherless homes..our prisons are filled with men who did not have fathers in their lives...but their mothers had welfare checks....

Ahh, the race card is out! Its always a matter of time with trump supporters.

The race card?

You really don't understand truth, facts or reality.........the democrat party has destroyed the black family with their policies...now young black men, in homes without fathers, are destroying their lives and the lives of other black Americans at horrible rates......

But to protect the democrat party, you will run from the facts and thus, refuse to fix the problem.

Hey, you brought up race; not me.

Eventually you always revert back to your caveman argument of "black man bad".

 

[MarathonMike]

The race card?

You really don't understand truth, facts or reality.........the democrat party has destroyed the black family with their policies...now young black men, in homes without fathers, are destroying their lives and the lives of other black Americans at horrible rates......

But to protect the democrat party, you will run from the facts and thus, refuse to fix the problem.

The root cause for the majority of violent gun crime is illegal drugs and the gangs that push the drugs or the people who are hooked on the drugs. And the majority of that drug-driven gun violence occurs in Democrat controlled inner cities. Those folks involved with illegal drugs do not abide by laws. As usual the Democrat solution for more gun control does not address the problem and transfers more power to the State.

 

[Blues Man]

The race card?

You really don't understand truth, facts or reality.........the democrat party has destroyed the black family with their policies...now young black men, in homes without fathers, are destroying their lives and the lives of other black Americans at horrible rates......

But to protect the democrat party, you will run from the facts and thus, refuse to fix the problem.

The root cause for the majority of violent gun crime is illegal drugs and the gangs that push the drugs or the people who are hooked on the drugs. And the majority of that drug-driven gun violence occurs in Democrat controlled inner cities. Those folks involved with illegal drugs do not abide by laws. As usual the Democrat solution for more gun control does not address the problem and transfers more power to the State.

It's a little more complicated than that.

If illegal drugs were the root cause then legalizing all drugs would be the best course

 

[Batcat]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

How many times a year in America are guns used to commit crimes?

How many times a year in America are guns used to prevent a crime?

The point is we have a crazy out of control gun culture where even the criminals have no problem getting their hands on guns. In Australia and Canada and England far less people are victims of gun violence as they are here in America.

Face it. If we had tougher gun laws we'd have less dead people in America every year. You could still have hunting guns and guns to protect your home but not every tom dick and harry can get an assault rifle.

I would feel safer in another country despite the fact that so many John Wayne's are running around packin. They don't make me feel safe but all the American rampage shooters do make me feel unsafe.

You can pass all the draconian gun laws you can think of and you still will see no major drop in gun violence.

Do you really think the drug gangs and criminals are going to participate in a gun buy back program or turn their firearms in? Do you really think citizens are going to turn their firearms in knowing the criminals will keep theirs?

Of course you will say you will just send the cops out to confiscate firearms from honest people who have committed no crime. Good luck with that as many counties and states in our nation are gun sanctuaries. I live in a county in Florida that is a gun sanctuary. In such counties the locals will not cooperate with the Feds to confiscate firearms from honest people. They will tell you that goes against the Constitution which they have pledged an oath to defend.

View attachment 500222

States and counties that have passed Second Amendment sanctuary (or other pro-Second Amendment) laws or resolutions. View county names by opening the map and hovering your mouse when using a laptop/desktop. Localities within counties that have adopted such resolutions are not displayed in this map; please see the corresponding Wikipedia article for the full list. Green = County level Blue = State level Purple = Both state and county levels

Second Amendment sanctuary - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do police swear an oath to the Constitution? | USAttorneys.com

Oath. State and local police generally swear an oath to the United States Constitution, as civil service or uniformed service officers, stating: “I, officer name, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and...

police-brutality.usattorneys.com

Omg. I’m talking about implementing policies that will stop gangs from getting guns. You’re not willing because gangs aren’t going to participate in buybacks.

Sorry I don’t have a policy idea that will get all gang members to turn in all their illegal guns. Do you? And so what? So does that mean we shouldn’t pass any common sense gun legislation?

Should we repeal all the common sense gun legislation we have on the books now? Why not? They don’t get gang members to participate in buybacks so why are we bothering?

If we did it your way no gang member would have an illegal gun. There would be no such thing. And every gang kill would be justified under stand your ground laws.

You talk about implementing polices that will stop gangs from getting guns.

Drug gangs obviously get drugs to sell. We don’t seem to be able to stop that. Suppose you had a magic wand and the words of a spell to chant that would remove every firearm in this nation in a flash. The next day guns would be smuggled into our nation just like marijuana, cocaine, heroin and fentanyl.

It has been often pointed out that we have plenty of gun laws that we don’t enforce. Why pass hundreds more that we will not enforce? For example Hunter Biden lied on his firearm appLocation. Why isn’t he being prosecuted.

Hunter Biden should be charged for lying on his gun application

“Lie and try.” That’s what the feds call cases in which people who are disqualified from owning guns under federal law try to get a gun by concealing the disqualification. It is maddening but true …

nypost.com

However this time it isn’t the fact that like many high ranking democrats and members of their families Hunter isn’t just above the law. It’s simply rare to get prosecuted for lying on a gun application.

Prosecutions for Lying on Gun Background Checks Fall to New Low

An audit of the federal firearms background check system released on Wednesday found prosecutions for those who illegally try to buy a gun from a firearms dealer had fallen to new lows.

freebeacon.com

There are laws against straw purchasing of firearms but when caught all too often nothing happens.



We know that in many states it is illegal to walk around with a concealed firearm unless you have a carry permit. If you are caught are you locked up? Let’s look at New York City.

An Illegal Gun on the Streets Is No Slam Dunk in Court

New York Police Department Detective Matthew Jogoda was working a funeral detail last December when he says a traffic infraction and a whiff of marijuana led him to put his hand down a Brooklyn man’s pants and pull out a Smith & Wesson .380 Bodyguard, a compact little weapon that holds six...

www.thetrace.org

Passing new gun laws is a “feel good” approach. If you are serious about reducing gun violence why not focus your efforts on getting existing laws enforced?

 

[sealybobo]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly as many. We should do what they are doing.
View attachment 496928

I agree we kill way too many people, but I don't think legal guns have anything to do with it.
Just like Prohibition caused a huge increase in shooting, by factor of 10, so had the War on Drugs.
Making something illegal means profits go up, but they then have to deal only in cash, no checks, credit cards, or banks.
The rest of the world also has much better education, health care, etc.
Guns have nothing to do with it, because drug dealers always have to be armed and get guns illegally.
So gun control laws can not have any effect on these illegal gun sources.

I’m a drug dealer and all my guns are legal

It is far riskier for a drug dealer to have legal guns than illegal ones, because the police then have a list of all the drug dealers just by seeing who purchased pistols.
Since drug dealers have connections to illegal wholesalers outside the country, then it is easier and cheaper for them to buy pistols illegally from the same sources they get their illegal drugs from.

I didn’t know drug dealers have connections to illegal wholesalers outside the country. You sound like you’re making this shit up.

 

[sealybobo]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

How many times a year in America are guns used to commit crimes?

How many times a year in America are guns used to prevent a crime?

The point is we have a crazy out of control gun culture where even the criminals have no problem getting their hands on guns. In Australia and Canada and England far less people are victims of gun violence as they are here in America.

Face it. If we had tougher gun laws we'd have less dead people in America every year. You could still have hunting guns and guns to protect your home but not every tom dick and harry can get an assault rifle.

I would feel safer in another country despite the fact that so many John Wayne's are running around packin. They don't make me feel safe but all the American rampage shooters do make me feel unsafe.

You can pass all the draconian gun laws you can think of and you still will see no major drop in gun violence.

Do you really think the drug gangs and criminals are going to participate in a gun buy back program or turn their firearms in? Do you really think citizens are going to turn their firearms in knowing the criminals will keep theirs?

Of course you will say you will just send the cops out to confiscate firearms from honest people who have committed no crime. Good luck with that as many counties and states in our nation are gun sanctuaries. I live in a county in Florida that is a gun sanctuary. In such counties the locals will not cooperate with the Feds to confiscate firearms from honest people. They will tell you that goes against the Constitution which they have pledged an oath to defend.

View attachment 500222

States and counties that have passed Second Amendment sanctuary (or other pro-Second Amendment) laws or resolutions. View county names by opening the map and hovering your mouse when using a laptop/desktop. Localities within counties that have adopted such resolutions are not displayed in this map; please see the corresponding Wikipedia article for the full list. Green = County level Blue = State level Purple = Both state and county levels

Second Amendment sanctuary - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do police swear an oath to the Constitution? | USAttorneys.com

Oath. State and local police generally swear an oath to the United States Constitution, as civil service or uniformed service officers, stating: “I, officer name, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and...

police-brutality.usattorneys.com

Omg. I’m talking about implementing policies that will stop gangs from getting guns. You’re not willing because gangs aren’t going to participate in buybacks.

Sorry I don’t have a policy idea that will get all gang members to turn in all their illegal guns. Do you? And so what? So does that mean we shouldn’t pass any common sense gun legislation?

Should we repeal all the common sense gun legislation we have on the books now? Why not? They don’t get gang members to participate in buybacks so why are we bothering?

If we did it your way no gang member would have an illegal gun. There would be no such thing. And every gang kill would be justified under stand your ground laws.

You talk about implementing polices that will stop gangs from getting guns.

Drug gangs obviously get drugs to sell. We don’t seem to be able to stop that. Suppose you had a magic wand and the words of a spell to chant that would remove every firearm in this nation in a flash. The next day guns would be smuggled into our nation just like marijuana, cocaine, heroin and fentanyl.

It has been often pointed out that we have plenty of gun laws that we don’t enforce. Why pass hundreds more that we will not enforce? For example Hunter Biden lied on his firearm appLocation. Why isn’t he being prosecuted.

Hunter Biden should be charged for lying on his gun application

“Lie and try.” That’s what the feds call cases in which people who are disqualified from owning guns under federal law try to get a gun by concealing the disqualification. It is maddening but true …

nypost.com

However this time it isn’t the fact that like many high ranking democrats and members of their families Hunter isn’t just above the law. It’s simply rare to get prosecuted for lying on a gun application.

Prosecutions for Lying on Gun Background Checks Fall to New Low

An audit of the federal firearms background check system released on Wednesday found prosecutions for those who illegally try to buy a gun from a firearms dealer had fallen to new lows.

freebeacon.com

There are laws against straw purchasing of firearms but when caught all too often nothing happens.



We know that in many states it is illegal to walk around with a concealed firearm unless you have a carry permit. If you are caught are you locked up? Let’s look at New York City.

An Illegal Gun on the Streets Is No Slam Dunk in Court

New York Police Department Detective Matthew Jogoda was working a funeral detail last December when he says a traffic infraction and a whiff of marijuana led him to put his hand down a Brooklyn man’s pants and pull out a Smith & Wesson .380 Bodyguard, a compact little weapon that holds six...

www.thetrace.org

Passing new gun laws is a “feel good” approach. If you are serious about reducing gun violence why not focus your efforts on getting existing laws enforced?

Hunter biden. Lol

 

[Batcat]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

How many times a year in America are guns used to commit crimes?

How many times a year in America are guns used to prevent a crime?

The point is we have a crazy out of control gun culture where even the criminals have no problem getting their hands on guns. In Australia and Canada and England far less people are victims of gun violence as they are here in America.

Face it. If we had tougher gun laws we'd have less dead people in America every year. You could still have hunting guns and guns to protect your home but not every tom dick and harry can get an assault rifle.

I would feel safer in another country despite the fact that so many John Wayne's are running around packin. They don't make me feel safe but all the American rampage shooters do make me feel unsafe.

You can pass all the draconian gun laws you can think of and you still will see no major drop in gun violence.

Do you really think the drug gangs and criminals are going to participate in a gun buy back program or turn their firearms in? Do you really think citizens are going to turn their firearms in knowing the criminals will keep theirs?

Of course you will say you will just send the cops out to confiscate firearms from honest people who have committed no crime. Good luck with that as many counties and states in our nation are gun sanctuaries. I live in a county in Florida that is a gun sanctuary. In such counties the locals will not cooperate with the Feds to confiscate firearms from honest people. They will tell you that goes against the Constitution which they have pledged an oath to defend.

View attachment 500222

States and counties that have passed Second Amendment sanctuary (or other pro-Second Amendment) laws or resolutions. View county names by opening the map and hovering your mouse when using a laptop/desktop. Localities within counties that have adopted such resolutions are not displayed in this map; please see the corresponding Wikipedia article for the full list. Green = County level Blue = State level Purple = Both state and county levels

Second Amendment sanctuary - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do police swear an oath to the Constitution? | USAttorneys.com

Oath. State and local police generally swear an oath to the United States Constitution, as civil service or uniformed service officers, stating: “I, officer name, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and...

police-brutality.usattorneys.com

Omg. I’m talking about implementing policies that will stop gangs from getting guns. You’re not willing because gangs aren’t going to participate in buybacks.

Sorry I don’t have a policy idea that will get all gang members to turn in all their illegal guns. Do you? And so what? So does that mean we shouldn’t pass any common sense gun legislation?

Should we repeal all the common sense gun legislation we have on the books now? Why not? They don’t get gang members to participate in buybacks so why are we bothering?

If we did it your way no gang member would have an illegal gun. There would be no such thing. And every gang kill would be justified under stand your ground laws.

You talk about implementing polices that will stop gangs from getting guns.

Drug gangs obviously get drugs to sell. We don’t seem to be able to stop that. Suppose you had a magic wand and the words of a spell to chant that would remove every firearm in this nation in a flash. The next day guns would be smuggled into our nation just like marijuana, cocaine, heroin and fentanyl.

It has been often pointed out that we have plenty of gun laws that we don’t enforce. Why pass hundreds more that we will not enforce? For example Hunter Biden lied on his firearm appLocation. Why isn’t he being prosecuted.

Hunter Biden should be charged for lying on his gun application

“Lie and try.” That’s what the feds call cases in which people who are disqualified from owning guns under federal law try to get a gun by concealing the disqualification. It is maddening but true …

nypost.com

However this time it isn’t the fact that like many high ranking democrats and members of their families Hunter isn’t just above the law. It’s simply rare to get prosecuted for lying on a gun application.

Prosecutions for Lying on Gun Background Checks Fall to New Low

An audit of the federal firearms background check system released on Wednesday found prosecutions for those who illegally try to buy a gun from a firearms dealer had fallen to new lows.

freebeacon.com

There are laws against straw purchasing of firearms but when caught all too often nothing happens.



We know that in many states it is illegal to walk around with a concealed firearm unless you have a carry permit. If you are caught are you locked up? Let’s look at New York City.

An Illegal Gun on the Streets Is No Slam Dunk in Court

New York Police Department Detective Matthew Jogoda was working a funeral detail last December when he says a traffic infraction and a whiff of marijuana led him to put his hand down a Brooklyn man’s pants and pull out a Smith & Wesson .380 Bodyguard, a compact little weapon that holds six...

www.thetrace.org

Passing new gun laws is a “feel good” approach. If you are serious about reducing gun violence why not focus your efforts on getting existing laws enforced?

Hunter biden. Lol

Hunter is damn lucky that Joe Biden is his dad and not Trump.