CDZ Two options...the European model of self defense, and the American model of Self defensse.

[otto105]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

Which countries have the lowest rates of gun violence?

 

[2aguy]

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....

Are military defensive gun uses really applicable to any argument about domestic violence?

You're desperate. Delicious.

You are an idiot......civilian defensive gun uses are the only ones the studies I posted examined.....military and police were kept out of those studies......

 

[candycorn]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

Which countries have the lowest rates of gun violence?

Not US.

 

[2aguy]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

Which countries have the lowest rates of gun violence?

The countries that are total police states. Japan, for example, is a democracy, but their culture is one that bows to the group and state authority. The police have massive powers over the citizens and prosecutors are almost never questioned when they bring a case.....

The democrat party is currently waging open war on the police....democrat party prosecutors are releasing violent, known, repeat gun offenders from jail and prison as if they get commissions on each release.....'

Japan does things very differently.....you use a gun for a crime, and you go to jail for life...you don't get released over and over again...

First, the Japanese police and prosecutors...

Japan: Gun Control and People Control

Japan's low crime rate has almost nothing to do with gun control, and everything to do with people control. Americans, used to their own traditions of freedom, would not accept Japan's system of people controls and gun controls.



Robbery in Japan is about as rare as murder. Japan's annual robbery rate is 1.8 per 100,000 inhabitants; America's is 205.4. Do the gun banners have the argument won when they point to these statistics? No, they don't. A realistic examination of Japanese culture leads to the conclusion that gun control has little, if anything, to do with Japan's low crime rates.


Japan's lack of crime is more the result of the very extensive powers of the Japanese police, and the distinctive relation of the Japanese citizenry to authority. Further, none of the reasons which have made gun control succeed in Japan (in terms of disarming citizens) exist in the U.S.

The Japanese criminal justice system bears more heavily on a suspect than any other system in an industrial democratic nation.

One American found this out when he was arrested in Okinawa for possessing marijuana: he was interrogated for days without an attorney, and signed a confession written in Japanese that he could not read. He met his lawyer for the first time at his trial, which took 30 minutes.

Unlike in the United States, where the Miranda rule limits coercive police interrogation techniques, Japanese police and prosecutors may detain a suspect indefinitely until he confesses. (Technically, detentions are only allowed for three days, followed by ten day extensions approved by a judge, but defense attorneys rarely oppose the extension request, for fear of offending the prosecutor.) Bail is denied if it would interfere with interrogation.

Even after interrogation is completed, pretrial detention may continue on a variety of pretexts, such as preventing the defendant from destroying evidence. Criminal defense lawyers are the only people allowed to visit a detained suspect, and those meetings are strictly limited.

Partly as a result of these coercive practices, and partly as a result of the Japanese sense of shame, the confession rate is 95%.

For those few defendants who dare to go to trial, there is no jury.


Since judges almost always defer to the prosecutors' judgment, the trial conviction rate for violent crime is 99.5%.

Of those convicted, 98% receive jail time.

In short, once a Japanese suspect is apprehended, the power of the prosecutor makes it very likely the suspect will go to jail. And the power of the policeman makes it quite likely that a criminal will be apprehended.

The police routinely ask "suspicious" characters to show what is in their purse or sack. In effect, the police can search almost anyone, almost anytime, because courts only rarely exclude evidence seized by the police -- even if the police acted illegally.

The most important element of police power, though, is not authority to search, but authority in the community. Like school teachers, Japanese policemen rate high in public esteem, especially in the countryside. Community leaders and role models, the police are trained in calligraphy and Haiku composition. In police per capita, Japan far outranks all other major democracies.

15,000 koban "police boxes" are located throughout the cities. Citizens go to the 24-hour-a-day boxes not only for street directions, but to complain about day-to-day problems, such as noisy neighbors, or to ask advice on how to raise children. Some of the policemen and their families live in the boxes. Police box officers clear 74.6% of all criminal cases cleared. Police box officers also spend time teaching neighborhood youth judo or calligraphy. The officers even hand- write their own newspapers, with information about crime and accidents, "stories about good deeds by children, and opinions of
residents."

The police box system contrasts sharply with the practice in America. Here, most departments adopt a policy of "stranger policing." To prevent corruption, police are frequently rotated from one neighborhood to another. But as federal judge Charles Silberman writes, "the cure is worse than the disease, for officers develop no sense of identification with their beats, hence no emotional stake in improving the quality of life there."

Thus, the U.S. citizenry does not develop a supportive relationship with the police. One poll showed that 60% of police officers believe "it is difficult to persuade people to give patrolmen the information they need."

The Japanese police do not spend all their time in the koban boxes. As the Japanese government puts it: "Home visit is one of the most important duties of officers assigned to police boxes."


Making annual visits to each home in their beat, officers keep track of who lives where, and which family member to contact in case of emergency.


The police also check on all gun licensees, to make sure no gun has been stolen or misused, that the gun is securely stored, and that the licensees are emotionally stable.

Gun banners might rejoice at a society where the police keep such a sharp eye on citizens' guns. But the price is that the police keep an eye on everything.

Policemen are apt to tell people reading sexually-oriented magazines to read something more worthwhile. Japan's major official year-end police report includes statistics like "Background and Motives for Girls' Sexual Misconduct." In 1985, the police determined that 37.4% of the girls had been seduced, and the rest had had sex "voluntarily." For the volunteers, 19.6% acted "out of curiosity", while for 18.1%, the motive was "liked particular boy." The year-end police report also includes sections on labor demands, and on anti-nuclear or anti-military d

 

[2aguy]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

Which countries have the lowest rates of gun violence?

Not US.

What do you want the woman who was brutally beaten, stabbed and had two of her teeth pulled out by her ex-husband, who was already on a restraining order.....to do to stop the attack.....?

The woman who was violently gang raped by a group of men in the London park....what do you want her to do to keep from being violently gang raped again?

Please answer.....be brave.....

I have built a time machine....I offer you the opportunity to go back in time and to the scenes of the crimes I posted...the woman facing the 2 men who also had a baseball bat, who pulled out her gun and the two guys ran away.....and the woman who was attacked in the parking garage, who was stabbed repeatedly until she managed to get her gun and shoot him, stopping the attack and saving her life......

Now...with my time machine...you can sneak back and take those guns away from those women before the attacks...they will not have those guns.....

 

[2aguy]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

Which countries have the lowest rates of gun violence?

What do you want the woman who was brutally beaten, stabbed and had two of her teeth pulled out by her ex-husband, who was already on a restraining order.....to do to stop the attack.....?

The woman who was violently gang raped by a group of men in the London park....what do you want her to do to keep from being violently gang raped again?

Please answer.....be brave.....

I have built a time machine....I offer you the opportunity to go back in time and to the scenes of the crimes I posted...the woman facing the 2 men who also had a baseball bat, who pulled out her gun and the two guys ran away.....and the woman who was attacked in the parking garage, who was stabbed repeatedly until she managed to get her gun and shoot him, stopping the attack and saving her life......

Now...with my time machine...you can sneak back and take those guns away from those women before the attacks...they will not have those guns.....

 

[2aguy]

Another day, another day where the anti-gun extremists refuse to answer this basic question...

The facts, truth and reality show that what they believe is silly.......

 

[otto105]

Another day, another day where the anti-gun extremists refuse to answer this basic question...

The facts, truth and reality show that what they believe is silly.......

What basic question?

 

[otto105]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

Which one has less gun violence?

 

[otto105]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

Which countries have the lowest rates of gun violence?

The countries that are total police states. Japan, for example, is a democracy, but their culture is one that bows to the group and state authority. The police have massive powers over the citizens and prosecutors are almost never questioned when they bring a case.....

The democrat party is currently waging open war on the police....democrat party prosecutors are releasing violent, known, repeat gun offenders from jail and prison as if they get commissions on each release.....'

Japan does things very differently.....you use a gun for a crime, and you go to jail for life...you don't get released over and over again...

First, the Japanese police and prosecutors...

Japan: Gun Control and People Control

Japan's low crime rate has almost nothing to do with gun control, and everything to do with people control. Americans, used to their own traditions of freedom, would not accept Japan's system of people controls and gun controls.



Robbery in Japan is about as rare as murder. Japan's annual robbery rate is 1.8 per 100,000 inhabitants; America's is 205.4. Do the gun banners have the argument won when they point to these statistics? No, they don't. A realistic examination of Japanese culture leads to the conclusion that gun control has little, if anything, to do with Japan's low crime rates.


Japan's lack of crime is more the result of the very extensive powers of the Japanese police, and the distinctive relation of the Japanese citizenry to authority. Further, none of the reasons which have made gun control succeed in Japan (in terms of disarming citizens) exist in the U.S.

The Japanese criminal justice system bears more heavily on a suspect than any other system in an industrial democratic nation.

One American found this out when he was arrested in Okinawa for possessing marijuana: he was interrogated for days without an attorney, and signed a confession written in Japanese that he could not read. He met his lawyer for the first time at his trial, which took 30 minutes.

Unlike in the United States, where the Miranda rule limits coercive police interrogation techniques, Japanese police and prosecutors may detain a suspect indefinitely until he confesses. (Technically, detentions are only allowed for three days, followed by ten day extensions approved by a judge, but defense attorneys rarely oppose the extension request, for fear of offending the prosecutor.) Bail is denied if it would interfere with interrogation.

Even after interrogation is completed, pretrial detention may continue on a variety of pretexts, such as preventing the defendant from destroying evidence. Criminal defense lawyers are the only people allowed to visit a detained suspect, and those meetings are strictly limited.

Partly as a result of these coercive practices, and partly as a result of the Japanese sense of shame, the confession rate is 95%.

For those few defendants who dare to go to trial, there is no jury.


Since judges almost always defer to the prosecutors' judgment, the trial conviction rate for violent crime is 99.5%.

Of those convicted, 98% receive jail time.

In short, once a Japanese suspect is apprehended, the power of the prosecutor makes it very likely the suspect will go to jail. And the power of the policeman makes it quite likely that a criminal will be apprehended.

The police routinely ask "suspicious" characters to show what is in their purse or sack. In effect, the police can search almost anyone, almost anytime, because courts only rarely exclude evidence seized by the police -- even if the police acted illegally.

The most important element of police power, though, is not authority to search, but authority in the community. Like school teachers, Japanese policemen rate high in public esteem, especially in the countryside. Community leaders and role models, the police are trained in calligraphy and Haiku composition. In police per capita, Japan far outranks all other major democracies.

15,000 koban "police boxes" are located throughout the cities. Citizens go to the 24-hour-a-day boxes not only for street directions, but to complain about day-to-day problems, such as noisy neighbors, or to ask advice on how to raise children. Some of the policemen and their families live in the boxes. Police box officers clear 74.6% of all criminal cases cleared. Police box officers also spend time teaching neighborhood youth judo or calligraphy. The officers even hand- write their own newspapers, with information about crime and accidents, "stories about good deeds by children, and opinions of
residents."

The police box system contrasts sharply with the practice in America. Here, most departments adopt a policy of "stranger policing." To prevent corruption, police are frequently rotated from one neighborhood to another. But as federal judge Charles Silberman writes, "the cure is worse than the disease, for officers develop no sense of identification with their beats, hence no emotional stake in improving the quality of life there."

Thus, the U.S. citizenry does not develop a supportive relationship with the police. One poll showed that 60% of police officers believe "it is difficult to persuade people to give patrolmen the information they need."

The Japanese police do not spend all their time in the koban boxes. As the Japanese government puts it: "Home visit is one of the most important duties of officers assigned to police boxes."


Making annual visits to each home in their beat, officers keep track of who lives where, and which family member to contact in case of emergency.


The police also check on all gun licensees, to make sure no gun has been stolen or misused, that the gun is securely stored, and that the licensees are emotionally stable.

Gun banners might rejoice at a society where the police keep such a sharp eye on citizens' guns. But the price is that the police keep an eye on everything.

Policemen are apt to tell people reading sexually-oriented magazines to read something more worthwhile. Japan's major official year-end police report includes statistics like "Background and Motives for Girls' Sexual Misconduct." In 1985, the police determined that 37.4% of the girls had been seduced, and the rest had had sex "voluntarily." For the volunteers, 19.6% acted "out of curiosity", while for 18.1%, the motive was "liked particular boy." The year-end police report also includes sections on labor demands, and on anti-nuclear or anti-military d

You offered a European example and our non-strategy for options.

I asked which one of those options has less gun violence.

 

[otto105]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

Which countries have the lowest rates of gun violence?

What do you want the woman who was brutally beaten, stabbed and had two of her teeth pulled out by her ex-husband, who was already on a restraining order.....to do to stop the attack.....?

The woman who was violently gang raped by a group of men in the London park....what do you want her to do to keep from being violently gang raped again?

Please answer.....be brave.....

I have built a time machine....I offer you the opportunity to go back in time and to the scenes of the crimes I posted...the woman facing the 2 men who also had a baseball bat, who pulled out her gun and the two guys ran away.....and the woman who was attacked in the parking garage, who was stabbed repeatedly until she managed to get her gun and shoot him, stopping the attack and saving her life......

Now...with my time machine...you can sneak back and take those guns away from those women before the attacks...they will not have those guns.....

Using the time machine analogy, would you go back in time to perform abortions for Mrs Hitler, Mrs Hussein and Mrs Manson?

 

[2aguy]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

Which countries have the lowest rates of gun violence?

The countries that are total police states. Japan, for example, is a democracy, but their culture is one that bows to the group and state authority. The police have massive powers over the citizens and prosecutors are almost never questioned when they bring a case.....

The democrat party is currently waging open war on the police....democrat party prosecutors are releasing violent, known, repeat gun offenders from jail and prison as if they get commissions on each release.....'

Japan does things very differently.....you use a gun for a crime, and you go to jail for life...you don't get released over and over again...

First, the Japanese police and prosecutors...

Japan: Gun Control and People Control

Japan's low crime rate has almost nothing to do with gun control, and everything to do with people control. Americans, used to their own traditions of freedom, would not accept Japan's system of people controls and gun controls.



Robbery in Japan is about as rare as murder. Japan's annual robbery rate is 1.8 per 100,000 inhabitants; America's is 205.4. Do the gun banners have the argument won when they point to these statistics? No, they don't. A realistic examination of Japanese culture leads to the conclusion that gun control has little, if anything, to do with Japan's low crime rates.


Japan's lack of crime is more the result of the very extensive powers of the Japanese police, and the distinctive relation of the Japanese citizenry to authority. Further, none of the reasons which have made gun control succeed in Japan (in terms of disarming citizens) exist in the U.S.

The Japanese criminal justice system bears more heavily on a suspect than any other system in an industrial democratic nation.

One American found this out when he was arrested in Okinawa for possessing marijuana: he was interrogated for days without an attorney, and signed a confession written in Japanese that he could not read. He met his lawyer for the first time at his trial, which took 30 minutes.

Unlike in the United States, where the Miranda rule limits coercive police interrogation techniques, Japanese police and prosecutors may detain a suspect indefinitely until he confesses. (Technically, detentions are only allowed for three days, followed by ten day extensions approved by a judge, but defense attorneys rarely oppose the extension request, for fear of offending the prosecutor.) Bail is denied if it would interfere with interrogation.

Even after interrogation is completed, pretrial detention may continue on a variety of pretexts, such as preventing the defendant from destroying evidence. Criminal defense lawyers are the only people allowed to visit a detained suspect, and those meetings are strictly limited.

Partly as a result of these coercive practices, and partly as a result of the Japanese sense of shame, the confession rate is 95%.

For those few defendants who dare to go to trial, there is no jury.


Since judges almost always defer to the prosecutors' judgment, the trial conviction rate for violent crime is 99.5%.

Of those convicted, 98% receive jail time.

In short, once a Japanese suspect is apprehended, the power of the prosecutor makes it very likely the suspect will go to jail. And the power of the policeman makes it quite likely that a criminal will be apprehended.

The police routinely ask "suspicious" characters to show what is in their purse or sack. In effect, the police can search almost anyone, almost anytime, because courts only rarely exclude evidence seized by the police -- even if the police acted illegally.

The most important element of police power, though, is not authority to search, but authority in the community. Like school teachers, Japanese policemen rate high in public esteem, especially in the countryside. Community leaders and role models, the police are trained in calligraphy and Haiku composition. In police per capita, Japan far outranks all other major democracies.

15,000 koban "police boxes" are located throughout the cities. Citizens go to the 24-hour-a-day boxes not only for street directions, but to complain about day-to-day problems, such as noisy neighbors, or to ask advice on how to raise children. Some of the policemen and their families live in the boxes. Police box officers clear 74.6% of all criminal cases cleared. Police box officers also spend time teaching neighborhood youth judo or calligraphy. The officers even hand- write their own newspapers, with information about crime and accidents, "stories about good deeds by children, and opinions of
residents."

The police box system contrasts sharply with the practice in America. Here, most departments adopt a policy of "stranger policing." To prevent corruption, police are frequently rotated from one neighborhood to another. But as federal judge Charles Silberman writes, "the cure is worse than the disease, for officers develop no sense of identification with their beats, hence no emotional stake in improving the quality of life there."

Thus, the U.S. citizenry does not develop a supportive relationship with the police. One poll showed that 60% of police officers believe "it is difficult to persuade people to give patrolmen the information they need."

The Japanese police do not spend all their time in the koban boxes. As the Japanese government puts it: "Home visit is one of the most important duties of officers assigned to police boxes."


Making annual visits to each home in their beat, officers keep track of who lives where, and which family member to contact in case of emergency.


The police also check on all gun licensees, to make sure no gun has been stolen or misused, that the gun is securely stored, and that the licensees are emotionally stable.

Gun banners might rejoice at a society where the police keep such a sharp eye on citizens' guns. But the price is that the police keep an eye on everything.

Policemen are apt to tell people reading sexually-oriented magazines to read something more worthwhile. Japan's major official year-end police report includes statistics like "Background and Motives for Girls' Sexual Misconduct." In 1985, the police determined that 37.4% of the girls had been seduced, and the rest had had sex "voluntarily." For the volunteers, 19.6% acted "out of curiosity", while for 18.1%, the motive was "liked particular boy." The year-end police report also includes sections on labor demands, and on anti-nuclear or anti-military d

You offered a European example and our non-strategy for options.

I asked which one of those options has less gun violence.

No....I asked this......and you guys refuse to answer.....

What do you want the woman who was brutally beaten, stabbed and had two of her teeth pulled out by her ex-husband, who was already on a restraining order.....to do to stop the attack.....?

The woman who was violently gang raped by a group of men in the London park....what do you want her to do to keep from being violently gang raped again?

Please answer.....be brave.....

I have built a time machine....I offer you the opportunity to go back in time and to the scenes of the crimes I posted...the woman facing the 2 men who also had a baseball bat, who pulled out her gun and the two guys ran away.....and the woman who was attacked in the parking garage, who was stabbed repeatedly until she managed to get her gun and shoot him, stopping the attack and saving her life......

Now...with my time machine...you can sneak back and take those guns away from those women before the attacks...they will not have those guns.....

 

[2aguy]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

Which countries have the lowest rates of gun violence?

What do you want the woman who was brutally beaten, stabbed and had two of her teeth pulled out by her ex-husband, who was already on a restraining order.....to do to stop the attack.....?

The woman who was violently gang raped by a group of men in the London park....what do you want her to do to keep from being violently gang raped again?

Please answer.....be brave.....

I have built a time machine....I offer you the opportunity to go back in time and to the scenes of the crimes I posted...the woman facing the 2 men who also had a baseball bat, who pulled out her gun and the two guys ran away.....and the woman who was attacked in the parking garage, who was stabbed repeatedly until she managed to get her gun and shoot him, stopping the attack and saving her life......

Now...with my time machine...you can sneak back and take those guns away from those women before the attacks...they will not have those guns.....

Using the time machine analogy, would you go back in time to perform abortions for Mrs Hitler, Mrs Hussein and Mrs Manson?

Very simple question...if you support the victims in Europe simply enduring the attacks......the rapes, beatings, knifings, robberies and murders........since you do not want civilians to have guns, only criminals and the government.....

What do you want the woman who was brutally beaten, stabbed and had two of her teeth pulled out by her ex-husband, who was already on a restraining order.....to do to stop the attack.....?

The woman who was violently gang raped by a group of men in the London park....what do you want her to do to keep from being violently gang raped again?

Please answer.....be brave.....

I have built a time machine....I offer you the opportunity to go back in time and to the scenes of the crimes I posted...the woman facing the 2 men who also had a baseball bat, who pulled out her gun and the two guys ran away.....and the woman who was attacked in the parking garage, who was stabbed repeatedly until she managed to get her gun and shoot him, stopping the attack and saving her life......

Now...with my time machine...you can sneak back and take those guns away from those women before the attacks...they will not have those guns.....

Will you take those guns away from those women.....before the attacks......or not?

 

[2aguy]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

Which one has less gun violence?

Duck, Dodge, Dip, Dive, Dodge...the question.........

 

[otto105]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

Which countries have the lowest rates of gun violence?

The countries that are total police states. Japan, for example, is a democracy, but their culture is one that bows to the group and state authority. The police have massive powers over the citizens and prosecutors are almost never questioned when they bring a case.....

The democrat party is currently waging open war on the police....democrat party prosecutors are releasing violent, known, repeat gun offenders from jail and prison as if they get commissions on each release.....'

Japan does things very differently.....you use a gun for a crime, and you go to jail for life...you don't get released over and over again...

First, the Japanese police and prosecutors...

Japan: Gun Control and People Control

Japan's low crime rate has almost nothing to do with gun control, and everything to do with people control. Americans, used to their own traditions of freedom, would not accept Japan's system of people controls and gun controls.



Robbery in Japan is about as rare as murder. Japan's annual robbery rate is 1.8 per 100,000 inhabitants; America's is 205.4. Do the gun banners have the argument won when they point to these statistics? No, they don't. A realistic examination of Japanese culture leads to the conclusion that gun control has little, if anything, to do with Japan's low crime rates.


Japan's lack of crime is more the result of the very extensive powers of the Japanese police, and the distinctive relation of the Japanese citizenry to authority. Further, none of the reasons which have made gun control succeed in Japan (in terms of disarming citizens) exist in the U.S.

The Japanese criminal justice system bears more heavily on a suspect than any other system in an industrial democratic nation.

One American found this out when he was arrested in Okinawa for possessing marijuana: he was interrogated for days without an attorney, and signed a confession written in Japanese that he could not read. He met his lawyer for the first time at his trial, which took 30 minutes.

Unlike in the United States, where the Miranda rule limits coercive police interrogation techniques, Japanese police and prosecutors may detain a suspect indefinitely until he confesses. (Technically, detentions are only allowed for three days, followed by ten day extensions approved by a judge, but defense attorneys rarely oppose the extension request, for fear of offending the prosecutor.) Bail is denied if it would interfere with interrogation.

Even after interrogation is completed, pretrial detention may continue on a variety of pretexts, such as preventing the defendant from destroying evidence. Criminal defense lawyers are the only people allowed to visit a detained suspect, and those meetings are strictly limited.

Partly as a result of these coercive practices, and partly as a result of the Japanese sense of shame, the confession rate is 95%.

For those few defendants who dare to go to trial, there is no jury.


Since judges almost always defer to the prosecutors' judgment, the trial conviction rate for violent crime is 99.5%.

Of those convicted, 98% receive jail time.

In short, once a Japanese suspect is apprehended, the power of the prosecutor makes it very likely the suspect will go to jail. And the power of the policeman makes it quite likely that a criminal will be apprehended.

The police routinely ask "suspicious" characters to show what is in their purse or sack. In effect, the police can search almost anyone, almost anytime, because courts only rarely exclude evidence seized by the police -- even if the police acted illegally.

The most important element of police power, though, is not authority to search, but authority in the community. Like school teachers, Japanese policemen rate high in public esteem, especially in the countryside. Community leaders and role models, the police are trained in calligraphy and Haiku composition. In police per capita, Japan far outranks all other major democracies.

15,000 koban "police boxes" are located throughout the cities. Citizens go to the 24-hour-a-day boxes not only for street directions, but to complain about day-to-day problems, such as noisy neighbors, or to ask advice on how to raise children. Some of the policemen and their families live in the boxes. Police box officers clear 74.6% of all criminal cases cleared. Police box officers also spend time teaching neighborhood youth judo or calligraphy. The officers even hand- write their own newspapers, with information about crime and accidents, "stories about good deeds by children, and opinions of
residents."

The police box system contrasts sharply with the practice in America. Here, most departments adopt a policy of "stranger policing." To prevent corruption, police are frequently rotated from one neighborhood to another. But as federal judge Charles Silberman writes, "the cure is worse than the disease, for officers develop no sense of identification with their beats, hence no emotional stake in improving the quality of life there."

Thus, the U.S. citizenry does not develop a supportive relationship with the police. One poll showed that 60% of police officers believe "it is difficult to persuade people to give patrolmen the information they need."

The Japanese police do not spend all their time in the koban boxes. As the Japanese government puts it: "Home visit is one of the most important duties of officers assigned to police boxes."


Making annual visits to each home in their beat, officers keep track of who lives where, and which family member to contact in case of emergency.


The police also check on all gun licensees, to make sure no gun has been stolen or misused, that the gun is securely stored, and that the licensees are emotionally stable.

Gun banners might rejoice at a society where the police keep such a sharp eye on citizens' guns. But the price is that the police keep an eye on everything.

Policemen are apt to tell people reading sexually-oriented magazines to read something more worthwhile. Japan's major official year-end police report includes statistics like "Background and Motives for Girls' Sexual Misconduct." In 1985, the police determined that 37.4% of the girls had been seduced, and the rest had had sex "voluntarily." For the volunteers, 19.6% acted "out of curiosity", while for 18.1%, the motive was "liked particular boy." The year-end police report also includes sections on labor demands, and on anti-nuclear or anti-military d

You offered a European example and our non-strategy for options.

I asked which one of those options has less gun violence.

No....I asked this......and you guys refuse to answer.....

What do you want the woman who was brutally beaten, stabbed and had two of her teeth pulled out by her ex-husband, who was already on a restraining order.....to do to stop the attack.....?

The woman who was violently gang raped by a group of men in the London park....what do you want her to do to keep from being violently gang raped again?

Please answer.....be brave.....

I have built a time machine....I offer you the opportunity to go back in time and to the scenes of the crimes I posted...the woman facing the 2 men who also had a baseball bat, who pulled out her gun and the two guys ran away.....and the woman who was attacked in the parking garage, who was stabbed repeatedly until she managed to get her gun and shoot him, stopping the attack and saving her life......

Now...with my time machine...you can sneak back and take those guns away from those women before the attacks...they will not have those guns.....

I will answer yours if you answer mine.

 

[otto105]

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....

Are military defensive gun uses really applicable to any argument about domestic violence?

You're desperate. Delicious.

You are an idiot......civilian defensive gun uses are the only ones the studies I posted examined.....military and police were kept out of those studies......

Do your studies include the racial aspect of slavery on the 2nd amendment?

If not, why?

 

[2aguy]

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....

Are military defensive gun uses really applicable to any argument about domestic violence?

You're desperate. Delicious.

You are an idiot......civilian defensive gun uses are the only ones the studies I posted examined.....military and police were kept out of those studies......

Do your studies include the racial aspect of slavery on the 2nd amendment?

If not, why?

You mean that gun control was one of the first sets of racist laws that we had, meant to keep blacks and indians from owning guns.....you that racial aspect of gun control and the 2nd Amendment?

That the Right to keep and Bear arms is the one thing that keeps people of all races free from a racist, oppressive government?

Very simple question...if you support the victims in Europe simply enduring the attacks......the rapes, beatings, knifings, robberies and murders........since you do not want civilians to have guns, only criminals and the government.....

What do you want the woman who was brutally beaten, stabbed and had two of her teeth pulled out by her ex-husband, who was already on a restraining order.....to do to stop the attack.....?

The woman who was violently gang raped by a group of men in the London park....what do you want her to do to keep from being violently gang raped again?

Please answer.....be brave.....

I have built a time machine....I offer you the opportunity to go back in time and to the scenes of the crimes I posted...the woman facing the 2 men who also had a baseball bat, who pulled out her gun and the two guys ran away.....and the woman who was attacked in the parking garage, who was stabbed repeatedly until she managed to get her gun and shoot him, stopping the attack and saving her life......

Now...with my time machine...you can sneak back and take those guns away from those women before the attacks...they will not have those guns.....

Will you take those guns away from those women.....before the attacks......or not?

 

[otto105]

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....

Are military defensive gun uses really applicable to any argument about domestic violence?

You're desperate. Delicious.

You are an idiot......civilian defensive gun uses are the only ones the studies I posted examined.....military and police were kept out of those studies......

Do your studies include the racial aspect of slavery on the 2nd amendment?

If not, why?

You mean that gun control was one of the first sets of racist laws that we had, meant to keep blacks and indians from owning guns.....you that racial aspect of gun control and the 2nd Amendment?

That the Right to keep and Bear arms is the one thing that keeps people of all races free from a racist, oppressive government?

Very simple question...if you support the victims in Europe simply enduring the attacks......the rapes, beatings, knifings, robberies and murders........since you do not want civilians to have guns, only criminals and the government.....

What do you want the woman who was brutally beaten, stabbed and had two of her teeth pulled out by her ex-husband, who was already on a restraining order.....to do to stop the attack.....?

The woman who was violently gang raped by a group of men in the London park....what do you want her to do to keep from being violently gang raped again?

Please answer.....be brave.....

I have built a time machine....I offer you the opportunity to go back in time and to the scenes of the crimes I posted...the woman facing the 2 men who also had a baseball bat, who pulled out her gun and the two guys ran away.....and the woman who was attacked in the parking garage, who was stabbed repeatedly until she managed to get her gun and shoot him, stopping the attack and saving her life......

Now...with my time machine...you can sneak back and take those guns away from those women before the attacks...they will not have those guns.....

Will you take those guns away from those women.....before the attacks......or not?

The 2nd amendment was a concern to southern states not as a means for gun control as both Native-Americans and African-Americans were not allowed to own guns. The second amendment was for militias to put down any uprisings by either of those groups.

BTW the "right to bare" arms as we have now has only been around for about 10 years.

To answer your strawman question, it obviously the European solution since they wouldn't try to flood more guns on society to keep gun violence down. In the US we have had 240+ mass shooting events already this year. Every mass shooting is just another reason to increase guns and gun violence to no end.


How many have they had in England? Germany or France?

 

[2aguy]

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....

Are military defensive gun uses really applicable to any argument about domestic violence?

You're desperate. Delicious.

You are an idiot......civilian defensive gun uses are the only ones the studies I posted examined.....military and police were kept out of those studies......

Do your studies include the racial aspect of slavery on the 2nd amendment?

If not, why?

You mean that gun control was one of the first sets of racist laws that we had, meant to keep blacks and indians from owning guns.....you that racial aspect of gun control and the 2nd Amendment?

That the Right to keep and Bear arms is the one thing that keeps people of all races free from a racist, oppressive government?

Very simple question...if you support the victims in Europe simply enduring the attacks......the rapes, beatings, knifings, robberies and murders........since you do not want civilians to have guns, only criminals and the government.....

What do you want the woman who was brutally beaten, stabbed and had two of her teeth pulled out by her ex-husband, who was already on a restraining order.....to do to stop the attack.....?

The woman who was violently gang raped by a group of men in the London park....what do you want her to do to keep from being violently gang raped again?

Please answer.....be brave.....

I have built a time machine....I offer you the opportunity to go back in time and to the scenes of the crimes I posted...the woman facing the 2 men who also had a baseball bat, who pulled out her gun and the two guys ran away.....and the woman who was attacked in the parking garage, who was stabbed repeatedly until she managed to get her gun and shoot him, stopping the attack and saving her life......

Now...with my time machine...you can sneak back and take those guns away from those women before the attacks...they will not have those guns.....

Will you take those guns away from those women.....before the attacks......or not?

The 2nd amendment was a concern to southern states not as a means for gun control as both Native-Americans and African-Americans were not allowed to own guns. The second amendment was for militias to put down any uprisings by either of those groups.

BTW the "right to bare" arms as we have now has only been around for about 10 years.

To answer your strawman question, it obviously the European solution since they wouldn't try to flood more guns on society to keep gun violence down. In the US we have had 240+ mass shooting events already this year. Every mass shooting is just another reason to increase guns and gun violence to no end.


How many have they had in England? Germany or France?

You know that that is a lie...right? That the 2nd Amendment was ...Muh Slavery....is a lie...right?

You left wingers will make up anything to get your way.......

We have not had 240 mass public shootings this year...that is a lie.....we had 1 in 2020, 10 in 2019, and 12 in 2018 using the actual definition of mass public shootings....

The 2nd Amendment, like the other Amendments were codified in the Bill of Rights specifically because the Founders knew that people like you would come along...many of the Founders didn't think we needed a Bill of Rights, since the Constitution itself limited the powers of the Federal Government....wiser members of the Founders understood human nature and human history, so they codified Existing Rights....Rights that were not created by the Constitution or Dependent on the Constitution for their existence.....all Americans were endowed with these Rights by God.....

So the 2nd Amendment predated slavery....as did the other 10


After the British attempted gun control at the beginning of the Revolutionary War, the wiser Founders realized they had to ensure the government could not take guns away from citizens...hence, they codified the existing Right, knowing people like you would come along and try to pretend it didn't exist....

If the right to bear arms was intended to preserve slavery, why did civil-rights leaders insist that black Americans should be armed to protect themselves?
---

This is wishful thinking. The Second is an attempt — much like the 1619 Project — to reimagine history in purely racial terms. The result is tendentious polemic that suffers not only from a paucity of historical evidence, but from a dishonest rendering of the facts we do know.
-----

Indeed, Anderson ignores the tradition of militias in English common law — codifying the “ancient and indubitable” right in the 1689 English Bill of Rights — which had nothing to do with chattel slavery. Anderson ignores the fact that nearly every intellectual, political, and military leader of the Founding generation — many of whom had no connection to slavery — stressed the importance of self-defense in entirely different contexts.

It was slavery skeptic John Adams, in his 1770 defense of Captain Thomas Preston, one of the soldiers responsible for the Boston Massacre, who argued that even British soldiers had an inherent right to defend themselves from mobs. “Here every private person is authorized to arm himself, and on the strength of this authority, I do not deny the inhabitants had a right to arm themselves,” he noted. When Pennsylvania became the first colony to explicitly guarantee the right to bear arms, it was Benjamin Franklin, by then an abolitionist, who presided over the conference. It was the anti-slavery Samuel Adams who proposed that the Constitution never be used to “authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms.” In the writings and speeches of nearly all American Founders, the threat of disarmament was a casus belli.
----
Indeed, Anderson ignores the tradition of militias in English common law — codifying the “ancient and indubitable” right in the 1689 English Bill of Rights — which had nothing to do with chattel slavery. Anderson ignores the fact that nearly every intellectual, political, and military leader of the Founding generation — many of whom had no connection to slavery — stressed the importance of self-defense in entirely different contexts.
----
Many anti-Federalists believed that enshrining these rights on paper would lead to future abuses. Of course, Southerners didn’t need permission to suppress black slave revolts, anyway. They had done so on numerous occasions before the nation’s founding.
----
Yet, by 1791, of the four jurisdictions that had written their own Second Amendments, three of them — Vermont, Massachusetts, and Pennsylvania — had already abolished slavery.

When Vermont authored its first constitution in 1777, in fact, it protected the right to keep and bear arms in the same document that it banned slavery.

The 1619 Project Comes for the Second Amendment | National Review

If the right to bear arms was intended to preserve slavery, why did civil-rights leaders insist that black Americans should be armed to protect themselves?

www.nationalreview.com

Your dishonesty is typical of anti-gun extremists....

This is how far anti-gun extremists will go to lie about our history and the 2nd Amendment...

But to make the claim that the Second Amendment was added to the Constitution to placate slave owners, Anderson is impelled to take numerous shortcuts. Take, for example, this pivotal sentence in the book:

“In short, James Madison, the Virginian, knew ‘that the militia’s prime function in his state, and throughout the south, was slave control.’”

The author frames the quote as if Madison, the author of the Bill of Rights, had said it himself — or, if we’re being generous, that it’s a fair representation of his views.

When you follow the book’s endnote, however, it leads to a 1998 paper titled “The Hidden History of the Second Amendment,” written by anti-gun activist Carl T. Bogus, who shares Anderson’s thesis.

It is his quote. Nowhere does Bogus offer any sample of Madison declaring, or even implying, that slave control was the impetus for the Second Amendment.

Then you have actual Blacks at the time and what they thought of the Right to keep and bear arms...

Civil-rights leaders of the 19th and early 20th centuries also lamented that the right to self-defense was denied them. Fredrick Douglass reacted to the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850 by editorializing that the best remedy would be “a good revolver, a steady hand, and a determination to shoot down any man attempting to kidnap.”

The late-19th-century civil-rights leader Ida B. Wells argued that one of the lessons of the post–Civil War era, “which every Afro American should ponder well, is that a Winchester rifle should have a place of honor in every black home, and it should be used for that protection which the law refuses to give.” T. Thomas Fortune, another black civil-rights activist of the era, argued that it was with a Winchester that the black man could “defend his home and children and wife.”

 

[2aguy]

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....

Are military defensive gun uses really applicable to any argument about domestic violence?

You're desperate. Delicious.

You are an idiot......civilian defensive gun uses are the only ones the studies I posted examined.....military and police were kept out of those studies......

Do your studies include the racial aspect of slavery on the 2nd amendment?

If not, why?

You mean that gun control was one of the first sets of racist laws that we had, meant to keep blacks and indians from owning guns.....you that racial aspect of gun control and the 2nd Amendment?

That the Right to keep and Bear arms is the one thing that keeps people of all races free from a racist, oppressive government?

Very simple question...if you support the victims in Europe simply enduring the attacks......the rapes, beatings, knifings, robberies and murders........since you do not want civilians to have guns, only criminals and the government.....

What do you want the woman who was brutally beaten, stabbed and had two of her teeth pulled out by her ex-husband, who was already on a restraining order.....to do to stop the attack.....?

The woman who was violently gang raped by a group of men in the London park....what do you want her to do to keep from being violently gang raped again?

Please answer.....be brave.....

I have built a time machine....I offer you the opportunity to go back in time and to the scenes of the crimes I posted...the woman facing the 2 men who also had a baseball bat, who pulled out her gun and the two guys ran away.....and the woman who was attacked in the parking garage, who was stabbed repeatedly until she managed to get her gun and shoot him, stopping the attack and saving her life......

Now...with my time machine...you can sneak back and take those guns away from those women before the attacks...they will not have those guns.....

Will you take those guns away from those women.....before the attacks......or not?

The 2nd amendment was a concern to southern states not as a means for gun control as both Native-Americans and African-Americans were not allowed to own guns. The second amendment was for militias to put down any uprisings by either of those groups.

BTW the "right to bare" arms as we have now has only been around for about 10 years.

To answer your strawman question, it obviously the European solution since they wouldn't try to flood more guns on society to keep gun violence down. In the US we have had 240+ mass shooting events already this year. Every mass shooting is just another reason to increase guns and gun violence to no end.


How many have they had in England? Germany or France?

They had few mass shootings in Britain when they had access to guns......guns weren't causing mass shootings there and they don't cause mass shootings here......

In fact, Britain is currently being flooded with guns...and the police can't stop them from getting into the country.....dittos France and the rest of Europe.....immigrant drug gangs need guns to protect their drug turf.....

Meanwhile, in the U.S....over 27 years as more Americans own and actually carried guns, our gun crime rate did not go up...it went down....our gun murder rate did not go up...it went down....

This means that increases in gun ownership do not increase mass shootings, they do not increase gun crime, they do not increase gun murder....

You don't know what you are talking about...

Over the last 27 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...

https://crimeresearch.org/2020/10/n...n-issuing-permits-because-of-the-coronavirus/


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.