TWO more Global Warming issues

[CrusaderFrank]

(BTW, the powers that be have previously decided to move other threads on this VERY important issue to other forums....as if this issue is not "political"...)

Anyway, there are 2 important sub-issues on global warming that are seldom adequately debated....

The first is that most right wingers "think" that global warming is a farce precipitated on us...a farce that would have drastic economic consequences....as if there are not many, many jobs that would be created by curbing the pollutants that we spew all over our planet's environment...........What is often stated by these folks is that global warming is a repetitious trend and that it has happened over the billions of years of earth's existence. Even IF this were true.....what these nitwits fail to recognize is that MAN is now populating the planet and that whatever may have happenend in the millenia prior to man's existence does NOT matter....what matters is that man is heading to exstinction if nothing is done.....

The second issue is how climate change will have drastic impact on new wars and struggles throughout our planet....Weather DOES impact on wars...from D-Day landings to when and where we would drop our bombs on Japan.

The fact remains that, for example, as the Sahara desert grows, hundred of thousands of people will try to migrate to where life can be supported and if anyone tries to stop such migration, wars erupt. We should remember that the civil war that is currently raging in Syria was ALSO prompted by their drought situation.

Obma is correct.....global warming, if left unchecked, will be a main cause for many more world-wide struggles.

You're such a fucking poseur.

Obama trotted out the ISIS is caused by Global Warming just to test how stupid and gullible people really were

Way, way over your head....find a grown up to explain to you what Obama meant.

He meant to see if his base would believe ANYTHING, and you did

 

[BluesLegend]

The OP denies that past variations in climate are relevant. How logical is that?

Nitwit, past variations were "irrelevant" because we were NOT around to mitigate the devastating changes....but NOW we are and we are making those variations much more pronounced....Surely there's a frown up that turned your computer "on" who could explain it to you.

What are these "devastating changes" you made up in your head?

 

[Treeshepherd]

Tom Brady blamed the deflated footballs on "atmospheric conditions". It was climate change.

 

[auditor0007]

(BTW, the powers that be have previously decided to move other threads on this VERY important issue to other forums....as if this issue is not "political"...)

Anyway, there are 2 important sub-issues on global warming that are seldom adequately debated....

The first is that most right wingers "think" that global warming is a farce precipitated on us...a farce that would have drastic economic consequences....as if there are not many, many jobs that would be created by curbing the pollutants that we spew all over our planet's environment...........What is often stated by these folks is that global warming is a repetitious trend and that it has happened over the billions of years of earth's existence. Even IF this were true.....what these nitwits fail to recognize is that MAN is now populating the planet and that whatever may have happenend in the millenia prior to man's existence does NOT matter....what matters is that man is heading to exstinction if nothing is done.....

The second issue is how climate change will have drastic impact on new wars and struggles throughout our planet....Weather DOES impact on wars...from D-Day landings to when and where we would drop our bombs on Japan.

The fact remains that, for example, as the Sahara desert grows, hundred of thousands of people will try to migrate to where life can be supported and if anyone tries to stop such migration, wars erupt. We should remember that the civil war that is currently raging in Syria was ALSO prompted by their drought situation.

Obma is correct.....global warming, if left unchecked, will be a main cause for many more world-wide struggles.

I would not worry about extinction, but I do see the planet correcting the problem of overpopulation one way or another. This planet really should not be supporting more than two to three billion people, although I realize that for now it is capable of supporting more. One day though, we shall see a quick reduction. The Last Ship isn't a complete fantasy.

 

[nat4900]

Even the Pentagon has joined the party. In their budget request for fiscal year 2015, they requested money to combat the destabilizing political effects of climate change

Of course you can't believe anything beyond your biases
but the Pentagon is correct on the request.....rather than building nuclear submarines to fight the Taliban in the caves of Pakistan, their budget should concentrate on issues such as this:

Researchers Link Syrian Conflict to a Drought Made Worse by Climate Change
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/03/s...to-drought-caused-by-climate-change.html?_r=0

 

[M14 Shooter]

The OP denies that past variations in climate are relevant. How logical is that?

Nitwit, past variations were "irrelevant" because we were NOT around to mitigate the devastating changes....but NOW we are and we are making those variations much more pronounced....Surely there's a frown up that turned your computer "on" who could explain it to you.

You clearly miss the point.

Natural variations in average temperature are commonplace; the vast swings in this average and the fact that the average temperature over the last several thousand years were higher than now indicates that any conclusion that industiral-age man is responsible for any claimed temperature increase over the lat 150 years is, well, specious at best.

But, mindless zealots like you -- your blind faith will not be shaken.

 

[mamooth]

Sassy here helpfully illustrates a common denier fraud tactic. She took a single temperature located at the top of a Greenland ice sheet, and tries to imply it's the temperature of the whole planet. It's fraud-by-cherrypicking.

And it's a staple denier tactic. Cultists, having no principles other than "The ends always justify the means for my cult!", will auto-justify any dishonesty as being acceptable in the service of the "greater good".

 

[Treeshepherd]

I would not worry about extinction, but I do see the planet correcting the problem of overpopulation one way or another. This planet really should not be supporting more than two to three billion people, although I realize that for now it is capable of supporting more. One day though, we shall see a quick reduction. The Last Ship isn't a complete fantasy.

The problem with CO2 obsession is that much more important environmental issues are being ignored. There's an oil spill off the coast of California right now. We're talking about CO2.

When I walk down the street or ride my bike I'm breathing in carbon monoxide, benzene and surface level ozone, gasses which are toxic. CO2 isn't toxic and has no effect on my health.

We still have nukes pointed at us.

We need to preserve forests and replant forests which produce oxygen, a gas which is at the top of Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

Think about the peace dividend which would come about as a result of a solar/wind/geothermal powered world. We wouldn't have to fight over oil anymore or support autocrats. That's far more compelling to me than CO2.

I've always been an environmentalist. Think of all the important environmental issues that have been displaced in lieu of carbon obsession. This is what happens when the government co-opts the environmental movement. It becomes a power grab and a cash cow.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Sassy here helpfully illustrates a common denier fraud tactic. She took a single temperature located at the top of a Greenland ice sheet, and tries to imply it's the temperature of the whole planet. It's fraud-by-cherrypicking.

And it's a staple denier tactic. Cultists, having no principles other than "The ends always justify the means for my cult!", will auto-justify any dishonesty as being acceptable in the service of the "greater good".

Take your "the sky is falling" and stick it. NO measurable warming for over 17 years,doofus

 

[M14 Shooter]

Sassy here helpfully illustrates a common denier fraud tactic. She took a single temperature located at the top of a Greenland ice sheet, and tries to imply it's the temperature of the whole planet. It's fraud-by-cherrypicking.

Do you have information to the contrary?
Can you show that the information is not illustrative of the point made with it?

 

[nat4900]

Forums such as these are NOT the place to "fix" stupidity....You right wingers are guided by your biases and dumb political convictions...a-la, "if a democrat stated something...we obviously HAVE to be AGAINST it..."

So, carry on and deny if droughts contributed to the Syrian civil war....or if the hundreds of thousands of immigrants from sub-Sahara Africa are flooding Europe....or if the California drought will raise the price of your vegetables......after all, you ARE right wingers, and facts mean nothing as long as you're left alone to play with your guns and bibles.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Forums such as these are NOT the place to "fix" stupidity....You right wingers are guided by your biases and dumb political convictions...a-la, "if a democrat stated something...we obviously HAVE to be AGAINST it..."

So, carry on and deny is droughts contributed to the Syrian civil war....or if the hundreds of thousands of immigrants from sub-Sahara Africa are flooding Europe....or if the California drought will raise the price of your vegetables......after all, you ARE right wingers, and facts mean nothing as long as you're left alone to play with your guns and bibles.

Translation: You all made fun of me and I'm taking my ball and going home

 

[M14 Shooter]

Forums such as these are NOT the place to "fix" stupidity

Indeed -- though in reality, nothing wll "fix" an AGW zealot and his blind faith.

 

[Treeshepherd]

Sassy here helpfully illustrates a common denier fraud tactic. She took a single temperature located at the top of a Greenland ice sheet, and tries to imply it's the temperature of the whole planet. It's fraud-by-cherrypicking.

Greenland ice core samples are only reliable back to about 130,000 years ago. We really only have one ice core record that goes back farther, at Vostok. For the rest of the planet, the ice record is missing. So, we analyze fossilized stomata. We take various records, which often conflict one another, and try to make a composite. That's the best we can do. It doesn't take a lot of common sense to realize that we have a very fuzzy picture of the past. Yet, I'm told over and over again on this board that the warming since the Industrial Revolution is unprecedented, and that's settled science, and to argue otherwise is to be a denier.

 

[mamooth]

You clearly miss the point.

No, we're well aware all deniers deliberately ignore any data that contradicts their religious teachings. That's why they're called deniers.

Natural variations in average temperature are commonplace; the vast swings in this average and the fact that the average temperature over the last several thousand years were higher than now indicates that any conclusion that industiral-age man is responsible for any claimed temperature increase over the lat 150 years is, well, specious at best.

The global temperature has been slowly cooling for the past 5,000 years, and would have slowly cooled for at least the next 20,000 years. That's the natural cycle. Instead, the earth suddenly started warming, in direct opposition to the natural cycles.

On top of that, we directly measure the stratospheric cooling, the increase in backradiation, and the decrease in outgoing longwave radiation. There are no natural explanations for that directly measured data, hence it is considered a smoking gun for global warming theory. Human-caused global warming theory is the only theory that explains all of the observed data, hence it is the accepted theory. If you have a different theory that explains all of the observed data, present it. You'll be the first to do so, and will be able to collect your Nobel prize.

But, mindless zealots like you -- your blind faith will not be shaken.

This is where you now find excuses to discard the data. You have to, otherwise you'll be tossed out of your herd, and the thought of that fills you with horror.

 

[nat4900]

There's an oil spill off the coast of California right now.

But, don't "fret" YOUR party will still push for the Keystone XL Pipeline....because some republicans have assured you that its totally safe......that is, until it isn't.

 

[Treeshepherd]

But, don't "fret" YOUR party will still push for the Keystone XL Pipeline....because some republicans have assured you that its totally safe......that is, until it isn't.

When did I ever claim to be a republican? You're projecting a preconcieved template on me. I oppose the Keystone Pipeline, but not because of CO2.

 

[nat4900]

For right wingers to deny what a whopping 97% of the scientific community is stating...and opt, instead, to firmly believe the remaining 3%......is an indication that [perhaps] they'll wait until FOX tells them that we may indeed have a problem that we must begin to mitigate. Maybe then....

 

[mamooth]

Do you have information to the contrary?

You want me to show that one should not cherrypick a single location and then declare it to be the temperature proxy for the entire planet? I'd think that would fall under the "totally freakin' obvious" category.

Can you show that the information is not illustrative of the point made with it?

Here's temps since the last ice age. Note the slow cooling for the past 5000 years. Note that current temps aren't on that graph, but have suddenly jumped to over 0.5, a kind of spike never seen before.

 

[Treeshepherd]

The global temperature has been slowly cooling for the past 5,000 years, and would have slowly cooled for at least the next 20,000 years. That's the natural cycle. Instead, the earth suddenly started warming, in direct opposition to the natural cycles.

How could you possibly know that?

Anyway, the planet has been warming for 400 years. World population was a 14th of what it is today. Was it the blacksmith forges that reversed 5,000 years of climate momentum?