Two Israeli scientists who emigrated to U.S. win Nobel Prize in Chemistry

[Roudy]

Lots of professors don't get tenure in lots of universities for lots of reasons. For all anyone knows, the wives may have been part of the reason - 35 years ago, things in US academia at least were very different.

I know a professor who didn't get tenure at Cornell only because his wife, in addition to doing all the 'proper' genteel volunteer work, chose to work as a chef at an organic restaurant in town. If she'd worked in a 'proper' toney boutique, that might have been acceptable.

We don't know the whole story and likely never will......

Yeah, why isn't America addressing this problem! This is an outrage!

I haven't heard of the US having a "brain drain" - quote the opposite in fact.

It will, in a few fields such as stem cell research. Do some research.

 

[Coyote]

Yeah, why isn't America addressing this problem! This is an outrage!

I haven't heard of the US having a "brain drain" - quote the opposite in fact.

It will, in a few fields such as stem cell research. Do some research.

Stem cell research, I can believe given the politics involved. However, you seem to be speaking in the future tense meaning you're guessing. What evidence do you have of a current brain drain?

 

[Roudy]

Lots of professors don't get tenure in lots of universities for lots of reasons. For all anyone knows, the wives may have been part of the reason - 35 years ago, things in US academia at least were very different.

I know a professor who didn't get tenure at Cornell only because his wife, in addition to doing all the 'proper' genteel volunteer work, chose to work as a chef at an organic restaurant in town. If she'd worked in a 'proper' toney boutique, that might have been acceptable.

We don't know the whole story and likely never will......

I know many American doctors teachers and professors that have moved to Saudi Arabiia because the pay is much better.

Relevance?

 

[Roudy]

I haven't heard of the US having a "brain drain" - quote the opposite in fact.

It will, in a few fields such as stem cell research. Do some research.

Stem cell research, I can believe given the politics involved. However, you seem to be speaking in the future tense meaning you're guessing. What evidence do you have of a current brain drain?

Nice try I'd like to stick to the topic of this thread.

Israeli Americans win Nobel prizes.

 

[Coyote]

I do agree: the topic was NOT 'Israel's brain drain'.

May I suggest that Coyote start a thread with that title - and remove the off-topic posts from this on to that?

(and incidentally, cause this post of mine to disappear)

I'm not so sure - the topic title is: Two Israeli scientists who emigrated to U.S. win Nobel Prize in Chemistry.

I do think discussing the brain drain is relevant and it is not a negative reflection on Israel - it's just honestly discussing a problem that explains why we have a large number of Israeli ex-pats conducting research here.

 

[Coyote]

It will, in a few fields such as stem cell research. Do some research.

Stem cell research, I can believe given the politics involved. However, you seem to be speaking in the future tense meaning you're guessing. What evidence do you have of a current brain drain?

Nice try I'd like to stick to the topic of this thread.

Israeli Americans win Nobel prizes.

I'm simply answering *your* claims Roudy. Maybe you're overdoing the patting yourself on the back here

 

[Roudy]

I do agree: the topic was NOT 'Israel's brain drain'.

May I suggest that Coyote start a thread with that title - and remove the off-topic posts from this on to that?

(and incidentally, cause this post of mine to disappear)

I'm not so sure - the topic title is: Two Israeli scientists who emigrated to U.S. win Nobel Prize in Chemistry.

I do think discussing the brain drain is relevant and it is not a negative reflection on Israel - it's just honestly discussing a problem that explains why we have a large number of Israeli ex-pats conducting research here.

Maybe you and others who also happen to hate Israel and Jews think that it's relevant. But really it's not. All kinds of people come here to make their dreams come true and these scientists are no exception. The thread is about celebration of an achievement and a personal a success story. The haters of course, just just help themselves.

 

[Roudy]

Stem cell research, I can believe given the politics involved. However, you seem to be speaking in the future tense meaning you're guessing. What evidence do you have of a current brain drain?

Nice try I'd like to stick to the topic of this thread.

Israeli Americans win Nobel prizes.

I'm simply answering *your* claims Roudy. Maybe you're overdoing the patting yourself on the back here

Patting myself in the back no, patting the scientists yes, you made us all proud. Shalom khaverim. Mazal Tov.

 

[MHunterB]

Yes, Coyote - and there is a similar problem in many countries all around the globe. It's been a problem in many nations in Europe , for example - people would rather go to the US to start a company because the regs in places like Germany are so stultifying.....

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

The wives remain bitter against Israel.

That is reported in the articles.

We do not know the whole story of why.

It could be Israels racism.

But after reading their families have been split up and reading one wife spends most of her time in Israel with 2 of her 3 kids, 1 kid lives in the US, I expect this is the reason for their bitterness.

My husband has an aunt who did everything she could to get her two kids out of Iran, and she succeeded. But now, she lives in Iran with her husband, her daughter lives in the US, and her son lives in Canada. And she spends much of her time seeking to find ways to spend time with those kids and her grandchildren. Its a difficult life.

 

[Coyote]

Yes, Coyote - and there is a similar problem in many countries all around the globe. It's been a problem in many nations in Europe , for example - people would rather go to the US to start a company because the regs in places like Germany are so stultifying.....

In terms of start ups and business opportunities, yes - I've heard of it. Many European countries are so over regulated that it is very difficult for entrepeneurs. I think though, that might be different than academics. I don't know what higher education is like in those countries - but it does seem to be a problem for Israel in retaining top academic researchers. It's a problem in funding and in the structure itself.

 

[Roudy]

Yes, Coyote - and there is a similar problem in many countries all around the globe. It's been a problem in many nations in Europe , for example - people would rather go to the US to start a company because the regs in places like Germany are so stultifying.....

In terms of start ups and business opportunities, yes - I've heard of it. Many European countries are so over regulated that it is very difficult for entrepeneurs. I think though, that might be different than academics. I don't know what higher education is like in those countries - but it does seem to be a problem for Israel in retaining top academic researchers. It's a problem in funding and in the structure itself.

Asked and answered before. Europe is worse. Small countries, limited positions, very educated ambitious population, limited universities. The whole world is heading that way.

 

[Coyote]

Yes, Coyote - and there is a similar problem in many countries all around the globe. It's been a problem in many nations in Europe , for example - people would rather go to the US to start a company because the regs in places like Germany are so stultifying.....

In terms of start ups and business opportunities, yes - I've heard of it. Many European countries are so over regulated that it is very difficult for entrepeneurs. I think though, that might be different than academics. I don't know what higher education is like in those countries - but it does seem to be a problem for Israel in retaining top academic researchers. It's a problem in funding and in the structure itself.

Asked and answered before. Europe is worse. Small countries, limited positions, very educated ambitious population, limited universities. The whole world is heading that way.

Really?

Low academic salaries was one of the arguments made against Israel's ability to retain academics.

In this article, Europe - doesn't seem to be too bad: Academic salaries no longer attract top talent, survey finds | General | Times Higher Education

Canada topped the pay league, with academics receiving an average of $7,196 (£4,537) a month before tax, when figures were adjusted for purchasing-power parity.

The UK finished in seventh place - behind Italy, South Africa, India, the US and Saudi Arabia - with academics being paid $5,943 a month on average, just ahead of Australia, the Netherlands and Germany.

Or, consider this Scandinavian countries top the world in research, study finds

 

[Connery]

The "Brain Drain" is a very real situation and these scientists may have been casualties although there seems to be more to their stories. The article in the OP raises and discusses this issue to an extent.

"The prevalent view in academia is that the situation in the universities began deteriorating between 2002 and 2010 (in what is called "the lost decade"), during which the funds earmarked for higher education declined while the number of students grew. However, Ben-David argues that the "lost decade" was really four decades long.

"The higher education system had already dropped down on the government's list of priorities at the end of the 1970s," writes Ben-David.

According to the report, in 1973 there were 131 senior faculty members for every 100,000 Israelis. By 2011 the ratio had declined by 53%, to 62 senior faculty members.

During the same period, the number of students pursuing higher education increased more than 400%, while the number of teaching staff at colleges and universities rose just 40%.

At two of Israel's top universities, the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and Tel Aviv University, the number of faculty members today is less than it was four decades ago, having dropped 17% and 26%, respectively."

Israel has worst rate of brain drain in West, study shows | Haaretz ? Iranian.com

 

[freedombecki]

The "Brain Drain" is a very real situation and these scientists may have been casualties although there seems to be more to their stories. The article in the OP raises and discusses this issue to an extent.

"The prevalent view in academia is that the situation in the universities began deteriorating between 2002 and 2010 (in what is called "the lost decade"), during which the funds earmarked for higher education declined while the number of students grew. However, Ben-David argues that the "lost decade" was really four decades long.

"The higher education system had already dropped down on the government's list of priorities at the end of the 1970s," writes Ben-David.

According to the report, in 1973 there were 131 senior faculty members for every 100,000 Israelis. By 2011 the ratio had declined by 53%, to 62 senior faculty members.

During the same period, the number of students pursuing higher education increased more than 400%, while the number of teaching staff at colleges and universities rose just 40%.

At two of Israel's top universities, the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and Tel Aviv University, the number of faculty members today is less than it was four decades ago, having dropped 17% and 26%, respectively."

Israel has worst rate of brain drain in West, study shows | Haaretz ? Iranian.com

Our nation failed to educate a man who lit up the world--so Thomas Edison's mom educated him herself. Where there's a will there's a way!

Thanks, Thomas Alva Edison for your contribution of hard work, ingenuity, and cheering up the night like this:

​

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

The "Brain Drain" is a very real situation and these scientists may have been casualties although there seems to be more to their stories. The article in the OP raises and discusses this issue to an extent.

"The prevalent view in academia is that the situation in the universities began deteriorating between 2002 and 2010 (in what is called "the lost decade"), during which the funds earmarked for higher education declined while the number of students grew. However, Ben-David argues that the "lost decade" was really four decades long.

"The higher education system had already dropped down on the government's list of priorities at the end of the 1970s," writes Ben-David.

According to the report, in 1973 there were 131 senior faculty members for every 100,000 Israelis. By 2011 the ratio had declined by 53%, to 62 senior faculty members.

During the same period, the number of students pursuing higher education increased more than 400%, while the number of teaching staff at colleges and universities rose just 40%.

At two of Israel's top universities, the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and Tel Aviv University, the number of faculty members today is less than it was four decades ago, having dropped 17% and 26%, respectively."

Israel has worst rate of brain drain in West, study shows | Haaretz ? Iranian.com

Our nation failed to educate a man who lit up the world--so Thomas Edison's mom educated him herself. Where there's a will there's a way!

Thanks, Thomas Alva Edison for your contribution of hard work, ingenuity, and cheering up the night like this:

​

He led no armies into battle,*he conquered no countries, and*he enslaved no peoples... Nonetheless, he exerted a degree of power the magnitude of which no warrior ever dreamed. His name still commands a respect as sweeping in scope and as world-wide as that of any other mortal - a devotion rooted deep in human gratitude and untainted by the bias that is often associated with race, color, politics, and religion."

Thomas Edison Home Page

 

[Connery]

The "Brain Drain" is a very real situation and these scientists may have been casualties although there seems to be more to their stories. The article in the OP raises and discusses this issue to an extent.

"The prevalent view in academia is that the situation in the universities began deteriorating between 2002 and 2010 (in what is called "the lost decade"), during which the funds earmarked for higher education declined while the number of students grew. However, Ben-David argues that the "lost decade" was really four decades long.

"The higher education system had already dropped down on the government's list of priorities at the end of the 1970s," writes Ben-David.

According to the report, in 1973 there were 131 senior faculty members for every 100,000 Israelis. By 2011 the ratio had declined by 53%, to 62 senior faculty members.

During the same period, the number of students pursuing higher education increased more than 400%, while the number of teaching staff at colleges and universities rose just 40%.

At two of Israel's top universities, the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and Tel Aviv University, the number of faculty members today is less than it was four decades ago, having dropped 17% and 26%, respectively."

Israel has worst rate of brain drain in West, study shows | Haaretz ? Iranian.com

Our nation failed to educate a man who lit up the world--so Thomas Edison's mom educated him herself. Where there's a will there's a way!

Thanks, Thomas Alva Edison for your contribution of hard work, ingenuity, and cheering up the night like this:

​

Unlike back then, today has a veritable cornucopia of options for people whether it is financial backing, ease of travel, communication thereby those who possess the most potential will be afford the greatest opportunity. The demand will be met with a supply no matter where that supply is located..

 

[freedombecki]

The "Brain Drain" is a very real situation and these scientists may have been casualties although there seems to be more to their stories. The article in the OP raises and discusses this issue to an extent.

"The prevalent view in academia is that the situation in the universities began deteriorating between 2002 and 2010 (in what is called "the lost decade"), during which the funds earmarked for higher education declined while the number of students grew. However, Ben-David argues that the "lost decade" was really four decades long.

"The higher education system had already dropped down on the government's list of priorities at the end of the 1970s," writes Ben-David.

According to the report, in 1973 there were 131 senior faculty members for every 100,000 Israelis. By 2011 the ratio had declined by 53%, to 62 senior faculty members.

During the same period, the number of students pursuing higher education increased more than 400%, while the number of teaching staff at colleges and universities rose just 40%.

At two of Israel's top universities, the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and Tel Aviv University, the number of faculty members today is less than it was four decades ago, having dropped 17% and 26%, respectively."

Israel has worst rate of brain drain in West, study shows | Haaretz ? Iranian.com

Our nation failed to educate a man who lit up the world--so Thomas Edison's mom educated him herself. Where there's a will there's a way!

Thanks, Thomas Alva Edison for your contribution of hard work, ingenuity, and cheering up the night like this:​

He led no armies into battle,*he conquered no countries, and*he enslaved no peoples... Nonetheless, he exerted a degree of power the magnitude of which no warrior ever dreamed. His name still commands a respect as sweeping in scope and as world-wide as that of any other mortal - a devotion rooted deep in human gratitude and untainted by the bias that is often associated with race, color, politics, and religion."

Thomas Edison Home Page

Thank God for a mother who let no system discourage the spark that is in her child.

 

[Lipush]

Sick and tired of being Israeli. Again. Still. | Emily L. Hauser - In My Head

I’m sick of being Israeli.I am sick of watching my home lurch from bad to worse — from the unavoidable xenophobia of any hounded and nationalistic people, to creeping-vine-xenophobia, the kind that the holds the whole house up at a certain point, having all but replaced whatever was once between the bricks. Israel had one good, shining year when it seemed it might be stepping forward rather than back, but 1993 came and went and here we are, worse off than we were before the Oslo Accords, because the Palestinian economy is more thoroughly wrecked, the Palestinian people more thoroughly occupied, Palestinian land more thoroughly gobbled up, and thousands of people (the vast majority of them Palestinian) more thoroughly dead.And to those who would say “Is America really any different?” (as some friends have) I would say: Yes. In America, we go from bad to better — slowly, painfully, splutteringly, we move forward. Israel? Not so much. Have you seen the recent spate of anti-democratic laws passed in The Middle East’s Only Democracy ™? Or read up on why all those protesters were out on the streets for all those weeks? Not to mention the continual erosion, by design, of any and all hope for a genuine, mutally acceptable peace with the Palestinians? Bad to worse,
bad to worser, bad to worsest (until the next worsest comes along).

^^^^

This is pure and utter bullshit!

How about addressing the topic and stop with the cheap shots already sherri. You have done your best to obfuscate, inveigle and denigrate the facts and winners of the prize. All you can come up with is some bloggy nonsense instead of celebrating the fact that their breakthrough will even help those you champion.

This was written by an individual with dual citizenship just like the two scientists we are discussing.

She, just like the two men addressed in the OP, is Jewish.

She, just like the two men in the OP, chooses to live in the United States over Israel.

Yes, and SHE is one out of many others who leave for OTHER reasons.

What is your point? because as far as I see, you don't have any.

 

[Connery]

Sick and tired of being Israeli. Again. Still. | Emily L. Hauser - In My Head

I’m sick of being Israeli.I am sick of watching my home lurch from bad to worse — from the unavoidable xenophobia of any hounded and nationalistic people, to creeping-vine-xenophobia, the kind that the holds the whole house up at a certain point, having all but replaced whatever was once between the bricks. Israel had one good, shining year when it seemed it might be stepping forward rather than back, but 1993 came and went and here we are, worse off than we were before the Oslo Accords, because the Palestinian economy is more thoroughly wrecked, the Palestinian people more thoroughly occupied, Palestinian land more thoroughly gobbled up, and thousands of people (the vast majority of them Palestinian) more thoroughly dead.And to those who would say “Is America really any different?” (as some friends have) I would say: Yes. In America, we go from bad to better — slowly, painfully, splutteringly, we move forward. Israel? Not so much. Have you seen the recent spate of anti-democratic laws passed in The Middle East’s Only Democracy ™? Or read up on why all those protesters were out on the streets for all those weeks? Not to mention the continual erosion, by design, of any and all hope for a genuine, mutally acceptable peace with the Palestinians? Bad to worse,
bad to worser, bad to worsest (until the next worsest comes along).

^^^^

This is pure and utter bullshit!

How about addressing the topic and stop with the cheap shots already sherri. You have done your best to obfuscate, inveigle and denigrate the facts and winners of the prize. All you can come up with is some bloggy nonsense instead of celebrating the fact that their breakthrough will even help those you champion.

This was written by an individual with dual citizenship just like the two scientists we are discussing.

She, just like the two men addressed in the OP, is Jewish.

She, just like the two men in the OP, chooses to live in the United States over Israel.

Emily Hauser is a real person, and she is a journalist.

And I think what she writes may go a long way in explaining why many Israelis like the scientists discussed in the OP are leaving Israel.

And it is not as if she has just severed all ties she has with Israel. She cannot stop writing about Israel, on her blog and for The Daily Beast, and elsewhere Her husband was born in Israel, she was born in the US and converted to Judaism when she was attending college in Israel. Her husband is an atheist, but she raises her children as Orthodox Jews. They have relatives in Israel, they regularly visit Israel, they even have relatives who are illegal settlers.

You do not want to address the issue of why people like these scientists and Emily Hauser are leaving Israel and not returning, does not make the phenomenon of Israelis leaving Israel go away.

The following is one very good reason why the steaming pile of dung you served up for the intellectual digestion of your fellow posters leaves them with brain farts and the resulting stench of your hateful thoughts.

Unlike your cherry picked nonsense, one scientist spoke about leaving Israel:

"Levitt said that remaining in Israel to continue his research would have been complicated. At the time the Weizmann Institute, where I was doing my research, felt it did not have enough budget to support our work. This is not a criticism of the Institute, which generally does try to advance important work. But our research would have taken a long time to develop,” and the Institute was unable to invest for the long term.

“In general I cannot say that the conditions in Israel were not good,” he said, adding that he would like to move back to Israel on a permanent basis one day, with his Israeli wife."

Nobel Winner: Weizmann Wouldn't Give Me Tenure - Inside Israel - News - Israel National News