Two Israeli scientists who emigrated to U.S. win Nobel Prize in Chemistry

[Roudy]

No, lying and saying that they left Israel because it is an oppressive society is.

lying makes someone a Nazi?

I guess you've been a Nazi since birth.

its good that these guys left the hateful state of Israel and moved to the USA.

they are welcome here.

Israel's yoredim is America's improvement.

There ya go lying again. They didn't leave Israel because it was a hateful society. They are proud to be Israelis and that's why they retained their Israeli citizenship.

Deal with it.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Speaking Hebrew in a series of Israeli media interviews, Warshel, who was born on a kibbutz, or collective farm, and Levitt, a native of South Africa, alluded to the difficulties in climbing the academic ladder in Israel.Their wives, however, seemed bitter."Israel doesn't give a lot, and that's why people are leaving. This is a result of pettiness, small-mindedness and people who can't think big," Levitt's spouse, Rinat, told Army Radio. Warshel's wife, Tamar, said her husband didn't receive tenure in Israel, "and that's why we had to leave".Israeli interviewers posed the formula question that is always asked of compatriots who have chosen to emigrate from a state established as a refuge for the Jewish people: When are you coming back, and not just for a visit?The short answer was, not any time soon.

Nobel Prize sparks 'brain drain' debate in Israel

There were no job openings, lumpkin.

That is not what they said.

 

[Coyote]

Wershel emigrated to the US 40+ years ago.


"Warshel, a 72-year-old professor at the University of Southern California, was born in Israel, served in its military in the 1967 and 1973 Mideast wars and earned his doctorate at Weizmann. He worked there as a scientist for six years in the 1970s but left for the United States after he wasn't offered tenure. Levitt, a 66-year-old professor at Stanford University, is also an Israeli citizen and in interviews said he encountered academic obstacles that pushed him abroad."

Israel doesn't give a lot, and that's why people are leaving," Levitt's wife, Rinat, told Israel Army Radio. "This is a result of pettiness, small-mindedness, and people who can't think big.""

Israeli ex-pats' Nobel win highlights brain drain

Good article - it goes on to note:

But the country's higher education system has fallen onto hard times. In its latest survey of the world's top universities, Times Higher Education, a British publication, lowered the rankings of leading Israeli institutions. The Hebrew University fell to 191 from 137 last year, Tel Aviv University fell to 199 from 158, and the Technion, Israel's top technological university, fell out of the top 200.

The country's infectious entrepreneurial spirit was nurtured by generous government backing of R&D in the 1990s to create a hi-tech boom that earned it the nickname "startup nation." The military proved to be a fertile training ground for promising engineers, and a million immigrants from the former Soviet Union over the past two decades gave a sharp boost to science and technology. Numerous breakthroughs were pioneered in Israel, such as Wi-Fi technology, the computer firewall and instant messaging.

But Israeli academics also suffers from a steep slashing of government financing along with an antiquated structure that eschews reform and offers only paltry salaries for top professors. The number of full-time academic positions has dropped dramatically while the number of students has grown steadily.

Even those Israeli academic expats who want to come home for emotional, rather than professional, reasons often have few or no options for employment.

Again, what's the point here? Another diversion? Worse is happening in Europe...highly educated candidates and not enough positions. So what?

Geez Roudy, I think you're the one diverting and it's rather comical. ISRAEL admits that this is a problem for them. They aren't burying their heads in the sand denying it like you are. They're calling on their government to do something about it. They recognize it while you deny it and divert.

 

[Hossfly]

Speaking Hebrew in a series of Israeli media interviews, Warshel, who was born on a kibbutz, or collective farm, and Levitt, a native of South Africa, alluded to the difficulties in climbing the academic ladder in Israel.Their wives, however, seemed bitter."Israel doesn't give a lot, and that's why people are leaving. This is a result of pettiness, small-mindedness and people who can't think big," Levitt's spouse, Rinat, told Army Radio. Warshel's wife, Tamar, said her husband didn't receive tenure in Israel, "and that's why we had to leave".Israeli interviewers posed the formula question that is always asked of compatriots who have chosen to emigrate from a state established as a refuge for the Jewish people: When are you coming back, and not just for a visit?The short answer was, not any time soon.

Nobel Prize sparks 'brain drain' debate in Israel

There were no job openings, lumpkin.

That is not what they said.

They were a little bitter,granted.

 

[Connery]

Speaking Hebrew in a series of Israeli media interviews, Warshel, who was born on a kibbutz, or collective farm, and Levitt, a native of South Africa, alluded to the difficulties in climbing the academic ladder in Israel.Their wives, however, seemed bitter."Israel doesn't give a lot, and that's why people are leaving. This is a result of pettiness, small-mindedness and people who can't think big," Levitt's spouse, Rinat, told Army Radio. Warshel's wife, Tamar, said her husband didn't receive tenure in Israel, "and that's why we had to leave".Israeli interviewers posed the formula question that is always asked of compatriots who have chosen to emigrate from a state established as a refuge for the Jewish people: When are you coming back, and not just for a visit?The short answer was, not any time soon.

Nobel Prize sparks 'brain drain' debate in Israel

I can clearly understand the thinking here....I am a New Yorker and I am currently living outside of NYC. My son is well established in the school system and he has developed well. I take him and go to NYC to buy bread, that's right bread. I am asked by my mother when will I come back to NYC and not just for a visit, my answer "not any time soon". The school system here is better suited for my boy he is in 2nd grade(besides it is fall foliage season right now).

 

[Roudy]

Wershel emigrated to the US 40+ years ago.


"Warshel, a 72-year-old professor at the University of Southern California, was born in Israel, served in its military in the 1967 and 1973 Mideast wars and earned his doctorate at Weizmann. He worked there as a scientist for six years in the 1970s but left for the United States after he wasn't offered tenure. Levitt, a 66-year-old professor at Stanford University, is also an Israeli citizen and in interviews said he encountered academic obstacles that pushed him abroad."

Israel doesn't give a lot, and that's why people are leaving," Levitt's wife, Rinat, told Israel Army Radio. "This is a result of pettiness, small-mindedness, and people who can't think big.""

Israeli ex-pats' Nobel win highlights brain drain

Point? Israel doesn't have a lot to give a lot. It's the same with European countries. Very few universities and research centers, and too many highly educated brains competing for the same spot. So you move on to where there are more opportunities for you. That's how it works in life. You work in one company, they don't give you promotion or can't get a the position you want, you pally for another job where there is more mobility.

You've pointed out multiple times that Israel has a booming economy. If so, it seems they should be able to address this problem in their higher education. It's not simply to many brains for the same spot - it's a reduction of spots, poor salaries, and an antiquated structure.

From Sherri's link:

But Israeli academics also suffers from a steep slashing of government financing along with an antiquated structure that eschews reform and offers only paltry salaries for top professors. The number of full-time academic positions has dropped dramatically while the number of students has grown steadily.

Israel has a booming economy, true. However at the time these scientists left things were different. In today's Israel they would have never left. The problem you are so "concerned" about is more pronounced in Europe. I wonder why you're so focused on This issue. What exactly does it have to with this thread?

Oh wait, I get it, latest news is these guys HATE Israel. They not really Isrseli ha ha ha.

Get over it, you guys are so transparent.

Get

 

[Roudy]

Speaking Hebrew in a series of Israeli media interviews, Warshel, who was born on a kibbutz, or collective farm, and Levitt, a native of South Africa, alluded to the difficulties in climbing the academic ladder in Israel.Their wives, however, seemed bitter."Israel doesn't give a lot, and that's why people are leaving. This is a result of pettiness, small-mindedness and people who can't think big," Levitt's spouse, Rinat, told Army Radio. Warshel's wife, Tamar, said her husband didn't receive tenure in Israel, "and that's why we had to leave".Israeli interviewers posed the formula question that is always asked of compatriots who have chosen to emigrate from a state established as a refuge for the Jewish people: When are you coming back, and not just for a visit?The short answer was, not any time soon.

Nobel Prize sparks 'brain drain' debate in Israel

There were no job openings, lumpkin.

That is not what they said.

Her husband didn't receive tenure so they had to leave. People do that all the time, but somehow it's different this time.

 

[Roudy]

Speaking Hebrew in a series of Israeli media interviews, Warshel, who was born on a kibbutz, or collective farm, and Levitt, a native of South Africa, alluded to the difficulties in climbing the academic ladder in Israel.Their wives, however, seemed bitter."Israel doesn't give a lot, and that's why people are leaving. This is a result of pettiness, small-mindedness and people who can't think big," Levitt's spouse, Rinat, told Army Radio. Warshel's wife, Tamar, said her husband didn't receive tenure in Israel, "and that's why we had to leave".Israeli interviewers posed the formula question that is always asked of compatriots who have chosen to emigrate from a state established as a refuge for the Jewish people: When are you coming back, and not just for a visit?The short answer was, not any time soon.

Nobel Prize sparks 'brain drain' debate in Israel

I can clearly understand the thinking here....I am a New Yorker and I am currently living outside of NYC. My son is well established in the school system and he has developed well. I take him and go to NYC to buy bread, that's right bread. I am asked by my mother when will I come back to NYC and not just for a visit, my answer "not any time soon". The school system here is better suited for my boy he is in 2nd grade(besides it is fall foliage season right now).

well said and thanks for sharing your personal life. So you left NY because hated those NY Jews, right? Ha ha ha.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

The wives seem to have some bitterness against Israel, that is what is written in the articles.

Israel did not offer the scientists the opportunities they were offered elsewhere, so they left. And Israel still does not offer them the opportunities they are offered elsewhere. So they have no plans to return.

 

[Coyote]

Point? Israel doesn't have a lot to give a lot. It's the same with European countries. Very few universities and research centers, and too many highly educated brains competing for the same spot. So you move on to where there are more opportunities for you. That's how it works in life. You work in one company, they don't give you promotion or can't get a the position you want, you pally for another job where there is more mobility.

You've pointed out multiple times that Israel has a booming economy. If so, it seems they should be able to address this problem in their higher education. It's not simply to many brains for the same spot - it's a reduction of spots, poor salaries, and an antiquated structure.

From Sherri's link:

But Israeli academics also suffers from a steep slashing of government financing along with an antiquated structure that eschews reform and offers only paltry salaries for top professors. The number of full-time academic positions has dropped dramatically while the number of students has grown steadily.

Israel has a booming economy, true. However at the time these scientists left things were different. In today's Israel they would have never left.

Roudy - Reality Check.

The articles that have been posted on this are about TODAY's Israel. It's TODAY's Israel that is concerned about top reseach people leaving. IF the situation was so different TODAY not only wouldn't they be leaving, they'd be returning.

The problem you are so "concerned" about is more pronounced in Europe. I wonder why you're so focused on This issue. What exactly does it have to with this thread?

Well then, feel free to start a thread on it Roudy. As to what it has to do with this thread - the scientists being discussed are Israel ex-pats, who left Israel to pursue science in the US, and who did so because of lack of opportunity in Israel. Kind of relevant don't you think? Certainly more relevant than whether Jews or Palestinians are invaders.

Oh wait, I get it, latest news is these guys HATE Israel. They not really Isrseli ha ha ha.

Get over it, you guys are so transparent.

Get

I never said they "hate Israel" - there is no evidence of that - your assertion is ridiculous. Nor have I claimed they aren't "Israeli". Let's stick to the facts.

Does it occur to you that Israeli's are far more honest about this issue of brain drain than you are?

 

[Hossfly]

The wives seem to have some bitterness against Israel, that is what is written in the articles.

Israel did not offer the scientists the opportunities they were offered elsewhere, so they left. And Israel still does not offer them the opportunities they are offered elsewhere. So they have no plans to return.

They left over 35 years ago when times were tough and Israel had to contend with all kinds of shit.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Nobel laureate: We left because Warshel didn't get tenure in Israel

Chemistry prize winner Michael Levitt recalls route to scientific breakthrough, illustrating Israel's brain-drain problem in matter-of-fact termsWednesday's announcement of the*Nobel Prize*in chemistry winners, among them two Israeli-Americans, has thrown*Israel's brain-drain problem into sharp relief.*New Nobel laureate Prof. Michael Levitt's response to the question why did he prefer to continue his breakthrough research abroad is matter-of-fact: "Because (fellow Nobel laureate Arieh) Warshel didn't get tenured there (in Israel) and it was critical in those years of work," Levitt answered simply.


Nobel laureate: We left because Warshel didn't get tenure in Israel - Israel News, Ynetnews

These two men were working together in Israel on the project they ultimately received an award for. They could not continue their work effectively in Israel so they left. They seem like men dedicated to the project they were working on who were willing to do what needed to be done to complete their project. And what was required was relocation from Israel to the US.

 

[Roudy]

Good article - it goes on to note:

Again, what's the point here? Another diversion? Worse is happening in Europe...highly educated candidates and not enough positions. So what?

Geez Roudy, I think you're the one diverting and it's rather comical. ISRAEL admits that this is a problem for them. They aren't burying their heads in the sand denying it like you are. They're calling on their government to do something about it. They recognize it while you deny it and divert.

Who's denying, and what does it have to do with the point of this thread? Was the title of this thread "Israel's" brain drain?

I have some news for you. I bet if you ask these scientists who were born, raised and bred in Israel and served in the military, where they want to spend their last days, and be buried, they would say Israel. It is their intense Israeli "win against all odds" mindset that allowed them to take advantage of the opportunities in America. That's why it doesn't take too long for Israelis to be successful here. I can attest to that, based on personal experience, they always rise to the top like rockets. Once an Israeli always an Israeli, don't forget that.

 

[Connery]

Speaking Hebrew in a series of Israeli media interviews, Warshel, who was born on a kibbutz, or collective farm, and Levitt, a native of South Africa, alluded to the difficulties in climbing the academic ladder in Israel.Their wives, however, seemed bitter."Israel doesn't give a lot, and that's why people are leaving. This is a result of pettiness, small-mindedness and people who can't think big," Levitt's spouse, Rinat, told Army Radio. Warshel's wife, Tamar, said her husband didn't receive tenure in Israel, "and that's why we had to leave".Israeli interviewers posed the formula question that is always asked of compatriots who have chosen to emigrate from a state established as a refuge for the Jewish people: When are you coming back, and not just for a visit?The short answer was, not any time soon.

Nobel Prize sparks 'brain drain' debate in Israel

I can clearly understand the thinking here....I am a New Yorker and I am currently living outside of NYC. My son is well established in the school system and he has developed well. I take him and go to NYC to buy bread, that's right bread. I am asked by my mother when will I come back to NYC and not just for a visit, my answer "not any time soon". The school system here is better suited for my boy he is in 2nd grade(besides it is fall foliage season right now).

well said and thanks for sharing your personal life. So you left NY because hated those NY Jews, right? Ha ha ha.

Did I mention I go back for the bread?????

 

[Coyote]

Again, what's the point here? Another diversion? Worse is happening in Europe...highly educated candidates and not enough positions. So what?

Geez Roudy, I think you're the one diverting and it's rather comical. ISRAEL admits that this is a problem for them. They aren't burying their heads in the sand denying it like you are. They're calling on their government to do something about it. They recognize it while you deny it and divert.

Who's denying, and what does it have to do with the point of this thread? Was the title of this thread "Israel's" brain drain?

I have some news for you. I bet if you ask these scientists who were born, raised and bred in Israel and served in the military, where they want to spend their last days, and be buried, they would say Israel.

Guess what? I agree. Again - I never said they "hate" Israel. What I'm saying, and what the articles I've quoted are saying is that Israel is not offering them, and other scientists the means to stay and it's a result of a combination of things that don't involve "hating Israel".

It is their intense Israeli "win against all odds" mindset that allowed them to take advantage of the opportunities in America. That's why it doesn't take too long for Israelis to be successful here. I can attest to that, based on personal experience, they always rise to the top like rockets. Once an Israeli always an Israeli, don't forget that.

Maybe so or maybe not. I wouldn't know. I do know there are many emigrants that have what it takes to succeed and make it to the top. I applaud them all - it's no easy thing

 

[MHunterB]

Lots of professors don't get tenure in lots of universities for lots of reasons. For all anyone knows, the wives may have been part of the reason - 35 years ago, things in US academia at least were very different.

I know a professor who didn't get tenure at Cornell only because his wife, in addition to doing all the 'proper' genteel volunteer work, chose to work as a chef at an organic restaurant in town. If she'd worked in a 'proper' toney boutique, that might have been acceptable.

We don't know the whole story and likely never will......

 

[Roudy]

Are you trying to turn this into a "you hate JOOOOOOS" discussion?

its all he talks about.

he thinks you're an anti-Semite if you prefer Oscar Mayer over Hebrew National hotdogs.

anything to not talk about the two scientists.

Hey I'm not the Jew hater all upset over why Jews or Israelis win Nobels every year that made up shit like "they left Israel because it was a hateful racist society". The fact that Coyote didn't call your idiotic comment what it was doesn't mean you got away with it.

Now run along Nazi boy.

 

[Roudy]

I can clearly understand the thinking here....I am a New Yorker and I am currently living outside of NYC. My son is well established in the school system and he has developed well. I take him and go to NYC to buy bread, that's right bread. I am asked by my mother when will I come back to NYC and not just for a visit, my answer "not any time soon". The school system here is better suited for my boy he is in 2nd grade(besides it is fall foliage season right now).

well said and thanks for sharing your personal life. So you left NY because hated those NY Jews, right? Ha ha ha.

Did I mention I go back for the bread?????

The bread's good because they hate Israel!

 

[Roudy]

Lots of professors don't get tenure in lots of universities for lots of reasons. For all anyone knows, the wives may have been part of the reason - 35 years ago, things in US academia at least were very different.

I know a professor who didn't get tenure at Cornell only because his wife, in addition to doing all the 'proper' genteel volunteer work, chose to work as a chef at an organic restaurant in town. If she'd worked in a 'proper' toney boutique, that might have been acceptable.

We don't know the whole story and likely never will......

Yeah, why isn't America addressing this problem! This is an outrage!

 

[Coyote]

Lots of professors don't get tenure in lots of universities for lots of reasons. For all anyone knows, the wives may have been part of the reason - 35 years ago, things in US academia at least were very different.

I know a professor who didn't get tenure at Cornell only because his wife, in addition to doing all the 'proper' genteel volunteer work, chose to work as a chef at an organic restaurant in town. If she'd worked in a 'proper' toney boutique, that might have been acceptable.

We don't know the whole story and likely never will......

Yeah, why isn't America addressing this problem! This is an outrage!

I haven't heard of the US having a "brain drain" - quote the opposite in fact.