Tulsi: We Now Need Universal Income

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Ray From Cleveland

Ray From Cleveland

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If everyone is guaranteed the same income whether they work or not and whether they are a brain surgeon or a trash collector, why would anyone work?
I don't think it could replace an income unless you work at Walmart stocking shelves. But I always found it an interesting concept if we removed all social programs and replaced it with UI. It would solve so many problems in this country, and this coming from a conservative.
Prices, and expenses, will rise to meet the additional "free money."
I don't know about that. Why would expenses rise? My concept is that instead of giving money exclusively to one group of people, give it equally to all.
Price of goods rise to meet the availability of money.
Tuition rises when government gets involved because people can bow "afford" higher tuition

Healthcare cost rises because of government deep pockets.

If a "business" could only charge what people could actually afford (thru WORK), then that's what a product or service will cost.

Also, expenditures will always rise to meet income. That's basic human nature.
I don't think you gave very good examples. Yes, the price of healthcare is partly because of government, but only because their programs only pay providers around 2/3 of the charges for their patients. Care givers have to increase their prices to make up for those losses. There is a lot of government red tape in healthcare, that's costly as well.

College tuition is a situation of supply and demand. Back in the 70's when I was in high school, only a small percentage of those people actually went and graduated from college. Most people were gearing up for the blue collar world. But blue collar jobs don't pay what they used to, and to make a good living, you need to have a college degree. Therefore, a much higher percentage of high school graduates attend college. Less supply and higher demand dictates a dramatic increase in costs.
I disagree

Many blue collar jobs pay better the bottom college degrees

there is more demand for skilled electricians than womens study graduates

correct, the hourly rate for plumbers is equal to lawyers, and plumbers actually do something for people.
Lawyers make upper double digits to millions a year, depending on the lawyer. A friend of mine and his siblings just won a lawsuit started by their father before he died. The settlement was 700K. The lawyer got 25% just for that one case.
There are people with degrees that are working at Starbucks

Engineering graduates usually hit the ground running and are well paid

Among the bullshit degrees not so much
You will always find anomalies no matter what, but I'm speaking in general. I've met truck drivers that had degrees in things like graphics. They were only driving a truck because it paid better and were more openings. My niece is a college graduate. She's been waiting tables for the last ten years, and not because of the money either. She has a degree in biology.
When I worked at the Post Office way back when, half my co-workers had college degrees. Some of them had Master's degrees. But government pay, benefits, and job security, y'know?
Even with government, you have a better chance at advancement if you do have a degree.
 
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Ray From Cleveland

Ray From Cleveland

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If everyone is guaranteed the same income whether they work or not and whether they are a brain surgeon or a trash collector, why would anyone work?
I don't think it could replace an income unless you work at Walmart stocking shelves. But I always found it an interesting concept if we removed all social programs and replaced it with UI. It would solve so many problems in this country, and this coming from a conservative.
Prices, and expenses, will rise to meet the additional "free money."
I don't know about that. Why would expenses rise? My concept is that instead of giving money exclusively to one group of people, give it equally to all.
Price of goods rise to meet the availability of money.
Tuition rises when government gets involved because people can bow "afford" higher tuition

Healthcare cost rises because of government deep pockets.

If a "business" could only charge what people could actually afford (thru WORK), then that's what a product or service will cost.

Also, expenditures will always rise to meet income. That's basic human nature.
I don't think you gave very good examples. Yes, the price of healthcare is partly because of government, but only because their programs only pay providers around 2/3 of the charges for their patients. Care givers have to increase their prices to make up for those losses. There is a lot of government red tape in healthcare, that's costly as well.

College tuition is a situation of supply and demand. Back in the 70's when I was in high school, only a small percentage of those people actually went and graduated from college. Most people were gearing up for the blue collar world. But blue collar jobs don't pay what they used to, and to make a good living, you need to have a college degree. Therefore, a much higher percentage of high school graduates attend college. Less supply and higher demand dictates a dramatic increase in costs.
I disagree

Many blue collar jobs pay better the bottom college degrees

there is more demand for skilled electricians than womens study graduates

correct, the hourly rate for plumbers is equal to lawyers, and plumbers actually do something for people.
Lawyers make upper double digits to millions a year, depending on the lawyer. A friend of mine and his siblings just won a lawsuit started by their father before he died. The settlement was 700K. The lawyer got 25% just for that one case.

yes, lawyers rip off the system on contingency cases. I was speaking about their billable rate for routine legal work like mortgage closings, bankruptcy filings etc. Here is Louisiana we have some of the highest car insurance rates in the nation because we have a bunch of ambulance chasing lawyers constantly filing liability cases and taking 30-50% of the settlements.

in case you missed it, I have a very strong dislike of lawyers.
I think a lot of people do. That's why I'm for a Loser Pays All law. Sue anybody you like, but if you lose, you are responsible for all the costs associated with the lawsuit. If that's the solution to the problem, why don't we have such a law? Because over half the people in Congress are lawyers, and they look out for their own.
 

Mac-7

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If everyone is guaranteed the same income whether they work or not and whether they are a brain surgeon or a trash collector, why would anyone work?
I don't think it could replace an income unless you work at Walmart stocking shelves. But I always found it an interesting concept if we removed all social programs and replaced it with UI. It would solve so many problems in this country, and this coming from a conservative.
Prices, and expenses, will rise to meet the additional "free money."
I don't know about that. Why would expenses rise? My concept is that instead of giving money exclusively to one group of people, give it equally to all.
Price of goods rise to meet the availability of money.
Tuition rises when government gets involved because people can bow "afford" higher tuition

Healthcare cost rises because of government deep pockets.

If a "business" could only charge what people could actually afford (thru WORK), then that's what a product or service will cost.

Also, expenditures will always rise to meet income. That's basic human nature.
I don't think you gave very good examples. Yes, the price of healthcare is partly because of government, but only because their programs only pay providers around 2/3 of the charges for their patients. Care givers have to increase their prices to make up for those losses. There is a lot of government red tape in healthcare, that's costly as well.

College tuition is a situation of supply and demand. Back in the 70's when I was in high school, only a small percentage of those people actually went and graduated from college. Most people were gearing up for the blue collar world. But blue collar jobs don't pay what they used to, and to make a good living, you need to have a college degree. Therefore, a much higher percentage of high school graduates attend college. Less supply and higher demand dictates a dramatic increase in costs.
I disagree

Many blue collar jobs pay better the bottom college degrees

there is more demand for skilled electricians than womens study graduates

correct, the hourly rate for plumbers is equal to lawyers, and plumbers actually do something for people.
Lawyers make upper double digits to millions a year, depending on the lawyer. A friend of mine and his siblings just won a lawsuit started by their father before he died. The settlement was 700K. The lawyer got 25% just for that one case.

yes, lawyers rip off the system on contingency cases. I was speaking about their billable rate for routine legal work like mortgage closings, bankruptcy filings etc. Here is Louisiana we have some of the highest car insurance rates in the nation because we have a bunch of ambulance chasing lawyers constantly filing liability cases and taking 30-50% of the settlements.

in case you missed it, I have a very strong dislike of lawyers.
The CDC announced that they will use lawyers for some lab experiments in the future

because there are some things that a rat just wont do
 

Mac-7

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If everyone is guaranteed the same income whether they work or not and whether they are a brain surgeon or a trash collector, why would anyone work?
I don't think it could replace an income unless you work at Walmart stocking shelves. But I always found it an interesting concept if we removed all social programs and replaced it with UI. It would solve so many problems in this country, and this coming from a conservative.
Prices, and expenses, will rise to meet the additional "free money."
I don't know about that. Why would expenses rise? My concept is that instead of giving money exclusively to one group of people, give it equally to all.
Price of goods rise to meet the availability of money.
Tuition rises when government gets involved because people can bow "afford" higher tuition

Healthcare cost rises because of government deep pockets.

If a "business" could only charge what people could actually afford (thru WORK), then that's what a product or service will cost.

Also, expenditures will always rise to meet income. That's basic human nature.
I don't think you gave very good examples. Yes, the price of healthcare is partly because of government, but only because their programs only pay providers around 2/3 of the charges for their patients. Care givers have to increase their prices to make up for those losses. There is a lot of government red tape in healthcare, that's costly as well.

College tuition is a situation of supply and demand. Back in the 70's when I was in high school, only a small percentage of those people actually went and graduated from college. Most people were gearing up for the blue collar world. But blue collar jobs don't pay what they used to, and to make a good living, you need to have a college degree. Therefore, a much higher percentage of high school graduates attend college. Less supply and higher demand dictates a dramatic increase in costs.
I disagree

Many blue collar jobs pay better the bottom college degrees

there is more demand for skilled electricians than womens study graduates

correct, the hourly rate for plumbers is equal to lawyers, and plumbers actually do something for people.
Lawyers make upper double digits to millions a year, depending on the lawyer. A friend of mine and his siblings just won a lawsuit started by their father before he died. The settlement was 700K. The lawyer got 25% just for that one case.
There are people with degrees that are working at Starbucks

Engineering graduates usually hit the ground running and are well paid

Among the bullshit degrees not so much
You will always find anomalies no matter what, but I'm speaking in general. I've met truck drivers that had degrees in things like graphics. They were only driving a truck because it paid better and were more openings. My niece is a college graduate. She's been waiting tables for the last ten years, and not because of the money either. She has a degree in biology.
When I worked at the Post Office way back when, half my co-workers had college degrees. Some of them had Master's degrees. But government pay, benefits, and job security, y'know?
Even with government, you have a better chance at advancement if you do have a degree.
Yes

the upper limit for a good college degree is higher than a plumber

but not everyone gets a good college degree
 

Redfish

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If everyone is guaranteed the same income whether they work or not and whether they are a brain surgeon or a trash collector, why would anyone work?
I don't think it could replace an income unless you work at Walmart stocking shelves. But I always found it an interesting concept if we removed all social programs and replaced it with UI. It would solve so many problems in this country, and this coming from a conservative.
Prices, and expenses, will rise to meet the additional "free money."
I don't know about that. Why would expenses rise? My concept is that instead of giving money exclusively to one group of people, give it equally to all.
Price of goods rise to meet the availability of money.
Tuition rises when government gets involved because people can bow "afford" higher tuition

Healthcare cost rises because of government deep pockets.

If a "business" could only charge what people could actually afford (thru WORK), then that's what a product or service will cost.

Also, expenditures will always rise to meet income. That's basic human nature.
I don't think you gave very good examples. Yes, the price of healthcare is partly because of government, but only because their programs only pay providers around 2/3 of the charges for their patients. Care givers have to increase their prices to make up for those losses. There is a lot of government red tape in healthcare, that's costly as well.

College tuition is a situation of supply and demand. Back in the 70's when I was in high school, only a small percentage of those people actually went and graduated from college. Most people were gearing up for the blue collar world. But blue collar jobs don't pay what they used to, and to make a good living, you need to have a college degree. Therefore, a much higher percentage of high school graduates attend college. Less supply and higher demand dictates a dramatic increase in costs.
I disagree

Many blue collar jobs pay better the bottom college degrees

there is more demand for skilled electricians than womens study graduates

correct, the hourly rate for plumbers is equal to lawyers, and plumbers actually do something for people.
Lawyers make upper double digits to millions a year, depending on the lawyer. A friend of mine and his siblings just won a lawsuit started by their father before he died. The settlement was 700K. The lawyer got 25% just for that one case.
There are people with degrees that are working at Starbucks

Engineering graduates usually hit the ground running and are well paid

Among the bullshit degrees not so much
You will always find anomalies no matter what, but I'm speaking in general. I've met truck drivers that had degrees in things like graphics. They were only driving a truck because it paid better and were more openings. My niece is a college graduate. She's been waiting tables for the last ten years, and not because of the money either. She has a degree in biology.
When I worked at the Post Office way back when, half my co-workers had college degrees. Some of them had Master's degrees. But government pay, benefits, and job security, y'know?
Even with government, you have a better chance at advancement if you do have a degree.
Yes

the upper limit for a good college degree is higher than a plumber

but not everyone gets a good college degree

the degree is the entry ticket to many jobs, what you make of it is up to you. lots of lawyers never make significant amounts of money. but virtually all plumbers and electricians make a solid income.

my point is that we need to reestablish trade schools in our high schools and not assume that everyone must go to college.
 
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Ray From Cleveland

Ray From Cleveland

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If everyone is guaranteed the same income whether they work or not and whether they are a brain surgeon or a trash collector, why would anyone work?
I don't think it could replace an income unless you work at Walmart stocking shelves. But I always found it an interesting concept if we removed all social programs and replaced it with UI. It would solve so many problems in this country, and this coming from a conservative.
Prices, and expenses, will rise to meet the additional "free money."
I don't know about that. Why would expenses rise? My concept is that instead of giving money exclusively to one group of people, give it equally to all.
Price of goods rise to meet the availability of money.
Tuition rises when government gets involved because people can bow "afford" higher tuition

Healthcare cost rises because of government deep pockets.

If a "business" could only charge what people could actually afford (thru WORK), then that's what a product or service will cost.

Also, expenditures will always rise to meet income. That's basic human nature.
I don't think you gave very good examples. Yes, the price of healthcare is partly because of government, but only because their programs only pay providers around 2/3 of the charges for their patients. Care givers have to increase their prices to make up for those losses. There is a lot of government red tape in healthcare, that's costly as well.

College tuition is a situation of supply and demand. Back in the 70's when I was in high school, only a small percentage of those people actually went and graduated from college. Most people were gearing up for the blue collar world. But blue collar jobs don't pay what they used to, and to make a good living, you need to have a college degree. Therefore, a much higher percentage of high school graduates attend college. Less supply and higher demand dictates a dramatic increase in costs.
I disagree

Many blue collar jobs pay better the bottom college degrees

there is more demand for skilled electricians than womens study graduates

correct, the hourly rate for plumbers is equal to lawyers, and plumbers actually do something for people.
Lawyers make upper double digits to millions a year, depending on the lawyer. A friend of mine and his siblings just won a lawsuit started by their father before he died. The settlement was 700K. The lawyer got 25% just for that one case.
There are people with degrees that are working at Starbucks

Engineering graduates usually hit the ground running and are well paid

Among the bullshit degrees not so much
You will always find anomalies no matter what, but I'm speaking in general. I've met truck drivers that had degrees in things like graphics. They were only driving a truck because it paid better and were more openings. My niece is a college graduate. She's been waiting tables for the last ten years, and not because of the money either. She has a degree in biology.
When I worked at the Post Office way back when, half my co-workers had college degrees. Some of them had Master's degrees. But government pay, benefits, and job security, y'know?
Even with government, you have a better chance at advancement if you do have a degree.
Yes

the upper limit for a good college degree is higher than a plumber

but not everyone gets a good college degree
That's why I used the average. I know that last year, Walmart was in desperate need of truck drivers. They were offering close to 90K a year to drive a truck. A lot of college graduates don't make that kind of money, especially when they first get out of college.
 

Cecilie1200

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If everyone is guaranteed the same income whether they work or not and whether they are a brain surgeon or a trash collector, why would anyone work?
I don't think it could replace an income unless you work at Walmart stocking shelves. But I always found it an interesting concept if we removed all social programs and replaced it with UI. It would solve so many problems in this country, and this coming from a conservative.
Prices, and expenses, will rise to meet the additional "free money."
I don't know about that. Why would expenses rise? My concept is that instead of giving money exclusively to one group of people, give it equally to all.
Price of goods rise to meet the availability of money.
Tuition rises when government gets involved because people can bow "afford" higher tuition

Healthcare cost rises because of government deep pockets.

If a "business" could only charge what people could actually afford (thru WORK), then that's what a product or service will cost.

Also, expenditures will always rise to meet income. That's basic human nature.
I don't think you gave very good examples. Yes, the price of healthcare is partly because of government, but only because their programs only pay providers around 2/3 of the charges for their patients. Care givers have to increase their prices to make up for those losses. There is a lot of government red tape in healthcare, that's costly as well.

College tuition is a situation of supply and demand. Back in the 70's when I was in high school, only a small percentage of those people actually went and graduated from college. Most people were gearing up for the blue collar world. But blue collar jobs don't pay what they used to, and to make a good living, you need to have a college degree. Therefore, a much higher percentage of high school graduates attend college. Less supply and higher demand dictates a dramatic increase in costs.
I disagree

Many blue collar jobs pay better the bottom college degrees

there is more demand for skilled electricians than womens study graduates

correct, the hourly rate for plumbers is equal to lawyers, and plumbers actually do something for people.
Lawyers make upper double digits to millions a year, depending on the lawyer. A friend of mine and his siblings just won a lawsuit started by their father before he died. The settlement was 700K. The lawyer got 25% just for that one case.
There are people with degrees that are working at Starbucks

Engineering graduates usually hit the ground running and are well paid

Among the bullshit degrees not so much
You will always find anomalies no matter what, but I'm speaking in general. I've met truck drivers that had degrees in things like graphics. They were only driving a truck because it paid better and were more openings. My niece is a college graduate. She's been waiting tables for the last ten years, and not because of the money either. She has a degree in biology.
When I worked at the Post Office way back when, half my co-workers had college degrees. Some of them had Master's degrees. But government pay, benefits, and job security, y'know?
Even with government, you have a better chance at advancement if you do have a degree.
Depends on the department. The USPS, at least when I worked there, was ALL about test scores, seniority, and military service (because veterans automatically got a leg up over everyone else). The job always went to the guy with the greater seniority, regardless of any qualifications beyond the basics.
 

Mac-7

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If everyone is guaranteed the same income whether they work or not and whether they are a brain surgeon or a trash collector, why would anyone work?
I don't think it could replace an income unless you work at Walmart stocking shelves. But I always found it an interesting concept if we removed all social programs and replaced it with UI. It would solve so many problems in this country, and this coming from a conservative.
Prices, and expenses, will rise to meet the additional "free money."
I don't know about that. Why would expenses rise? My concept is that instead of giving money exclusively to one group of people, give it equally to all.
Price of goods rise to meet the availability of money.
Tuition rises when government gets involved because people can bow "afford" higher tuition

Healthcare cost rises because of government deep pockets.

If a "business" could only charge what people could actually afford (thru WORK), then that's what a product or service will cost.

Also, expenditures will always rise to meet income. That's basic human nature.
I don't think you gave very good examples. Yes, the price of healthcare is partly because of government, but only because their programs only pay providers around 2/3 of the charges for their patients. Care givers have to increase their prices to make up for those losses. There is a lot of government red tape in healthcare, that's costly as well.

College tuition is a situation of supply and demand. Back in the 70's when I was in high school, only a small percentage of those people actually went and graduated from college. Most people were gearing up for the blue collar world. But blue collar jobs don't pay what they used to, and to make a good living, you need to have a college degree. Therefore, a much higher percentage of high school graduates attend college. Less supply and higher demand dictates a dramatic increase in costs.
I disagree

Many blue collar jobs pay better the bottom college degrees

there is more demand for skilled electricians than womens study graduates

correct, the hourly rate for plumbers is equal to lawyers, and plumbers actually do something for people.
Lawyers make upper double digits to millions a year, depending on the lawyer. A friend of mine and his siblings just won a lawsuit started by their father before he died. The settlement was 700K. The lawyer got 25% just for that one case.
There are people with degrees that are working at Starbucks

Engineering graduates usually hit the ground running and are well paid

Among the bullshit degrees not so much
You will always find anomalies no matter what, but I'm speaking in general. I've met truck drivers that had degrees in things like graphics. They were only driving a truck because it paid better and were more openings. My niece is a college graduate. She's been waiting tables for the last ten years, and not because of the money either. She has a degree in biology.
When I worked at the Post Office way back when, half my co-workers had college degrees. Some of them had Master's degrees. But government pay, benefits, and job security, y'know?
Even with government, you have a better chance at advancement if you do have a degree.
Depends on the department. The USPS, at least when I worked there, was ALL about test scores, seniority, and military service (because veterans automatically got a leg up over everyone else). The job always went to the guy with the greater seniority, regardless of any qualifications beyond the basics.
Many postal workers are what I call Retired On Active Duty

I have been forced to put most of my bills on autopay because the mail is so unpredictable
 
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Ray From Cleveland

Ray From Cleveland

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If everyone is guaranteed the same income whether they work or not and whether they are a brain surgeon or a trash collector, why would anyone work?
I don't think it could replace an income unless you work at Walmart stocking shelves. But I always found it an interesting concept if we removed all social programs and replaced it with UI. It would solve so many problems in this country, and this coming from a conservative.
Prices, and expenses, will rise to meet the additional "free money."
I don't know about that. Why would expenses rise? My concept is that instead of giving money exclusively to one group of people, give it equally to all.
Price of goods rise to meet the availability of money.
Tuition rises when government gets involved because people can bow "afford" higher tuition

Healthcare cost rises because of government deep pockets.

If a "business" could only charge what people could actually afford (thru WORK), then that's what a product or service will cost.

Also, expenditures will always rise to meet income. That's basic human nature.
I don't think you gave very good examples. Yes, the price of healthcare is partly because of government, but only because their programs only pay providers around 2/3 of the charges for their patients. Care givers have to increase their prices to make up for those losses. There is a lot of government red tape in healthcare, that's costly as well.

College tuition is a situation of supply and demand. Back in the 70's when I was in high school, only a small percentage of those people actually went and graduated from college. Most people were gearing up for the blue collar world. But blue collar jobs don't pay what they used to, and to make a good living, you need to have a college degree. Therefore, a much higher percentage of high school graduates attend college. Less supply and higher demand dictates a dramatic increase in costs.
I disagree

Many blue collar jobs pay better the bottom college degrees

there is more demand for skilled electricians than womens study graduates

correct, the hourly rate for plumbers is equal to lawyers, and plumbers actually do something for people.
Lawyers make upper double digits to millions a year, depending on the lawyer. A friend of mine and his siblings just won a lawsuit started by their father before he died. The settlement was 700K. The lawyer got 25% just for that one case.
There are people with degrees that are working at Starbucks

Engineering graduates usually hit the ground running and are well paid

Among the bullshit degrees not so much
You will always find anomalies no matter what, but I'm speaking in general. I've met truck drivers that had degrees in things like graphics. They were only driving a truck because it paid better and were more openings. My niece is a college graduate. She's been waiting tables for the last ten years, and not because of the money either. She has a degree in biology.
When I worked at the Post Office way back when, half my co-workers had college degrees. Some of them had Master's degrees. But government pay, benefits, and job security, y'know?
Even with government, you have a better chance at advancement if you do have a degree.
Depends on the department. The USPS, at least when I worked there, was ALL about test scores, seniority, and military service (because veterans automatically got a leg up over everyone else). The job always went to the guy with the greater seniority, regardless of any qualifications beyond the basics.
Many postal workers are what I call Retired On Active Duty

I have been forced to put most of my bills on autopay because the mail is so unpredictable
Same here, they are terrible. I make sure when a new tenant moves in, I immediately letter their mailbox for the post office worker. I can't understand what is so hard about matching the name and address on the letter to the proper mailbox. It's like an impossible task for the carriers here.

I told this to a friend of mine, and my cousin, who are both mail carriers. They got so defensive and upset about it. First they said I probably didn't have addresses displayed, which of course I do, very large letters. Then they accused me of not putting the names on the box, I told them that every box has one or several names on it. In frustration, they finally said "You just don't understand, you never did the job before!!!"

I replied that no, I do not understand. I could put a letter in a mailbox when I was 8 years old. How is it these adults can't do the same???
 

Rigby5

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If everyone is guaranteed the same income whether they work or not and whether they are a brain surgeon or a trash collector, why would anyone work?
I don't think it could replace an income unless you work at Walmart stocking shelves. But I always found it an interesting concept if we removed all social programs and replaced it with UI. It would solve so many problems in this country, and this coming from a conservative.
Prices, and expenses, will rise to meet the additional "free money."
I don't know about that. Why would expenses rise? My concept is that instead of giving money exclusively to one group of people, give it equally to all.
Price of goods rise to meet the availability of money.
Tuition rises when government gets involved because people can bow "afford" higher tuition

Healthcare cost rises because of government deep pockets.

If a "business" could only charge what people could actually afford (thru WORK), then that's what a product or service will cost.

Also, expenditures will always rise to meet income. That's basic human nature.
I don't think you gave very good examples. Yes, the price of healthcare is partly because of government, but only because their programs only pay providers around 2/3 of the charges for their patients. Care givers have to increase their prices to make up for those losses. There is a lot of government red tape in healthcare, that's costly as well.

College tuition is a situation of supply and demand. Back in the 70's when I was in high school, only a small percentage of those people actually went and graduated from college. Most people were gearing up for the blue collar world. But blue collar jobs don't pay what they used to, and to make a good living, you need to have a college degree. Therefore, a much higher percentage of high school graduates attend college. Less supply and higher demand dictates a dramatic increase in costs.
I disagree

Many blue collar jobs pay better the bottom college degrees

there is more demand for skilled electricians than womens study graduates

correct, the hourly rate for plumbers is equal to lawyers, and plumbers actually do something for people.
Lawyers make upper double digits to millions a year, depending on the lawyer. A friend of mine and his siblings just won a lawsuit started by their father before he died. The settlement was 700K. The lawyer got 25% just for that one case.
There are people with degrees that are working at Starbucks

Engineering graduates usually hit the ground running and are well paid

Among the bullshit degrees not so much
You will always find anomalies no matter what, but I'm speaking in general. I've met truck drivers that had degrees in things like graphics. They were only driving a truck because it paid better and were more openings. My niece is a college graduate. She's been waiting tables for the last ten years, and not because of the money either. She has a degree in biology.
When I worked at the Post Office way back when, half my co-workers had college degrees. Some of them had Master's degrees. But government pay, benefits, and job security, y'know?
Even with government, you have a better chance at advancement if you do have a degree.
Depends on the department. The USPS, at least when I worked there, was ALL about test scores, seniority, and military service (because veterans automatically got a leg up over everyone else). The job always went to the guy with the greater seniority, regardless of any qualifications beyond the basics.
Many postal workers are what I call Retired On Active Duty

I have been forced to put most of my bills on autopay because the mail is so unpredictable
Same here, they are terrible. I make sure when a new tenant moves in, I immediately letter their mailbox for the post office worker. I can't understand what is so hard about matching the name and address on the letter to the proper mailbox. It's like an impossible task for the carriers here.

I told this to a friend of mine, and my cousin, who are both mail carriers. They got so defensive and upset about it. First they said I probably didn't have addresses displayed, which of course I do, very large letters. Then they accused me of not putting the names on the box, I told them that every box has one or several names on it. In frustration, they finally said "You just don't understand, you never did the job before!!!"

I replied that no, I do not understand. I could put a letter in a mailbox when I was 8 years old. How is it these adults can't do the same???
That is not how mail works.
The delivery postman never gets to look at individual mail.
That would take way too long.
It is all presorted at a central facility, where they have to type in the info, and it is then bundled in layers.
Sorter gets about 3 seconds per item.
One of the hardest jobs in the world.
And you are constantly watched and rated by people behind 1 way mirrors, on catwalks above.
Postal sorters have the highest suicide rate of any profession.
You have heard of the term, "going postal", right?
 

LuckyDuck

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Multiple lawmakers have proposed economic stimulus packages and universal basic income programs as the coronavirus begins to take a larger toll on the American economy.

On Friday, Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (D-Hawaii), a 2020 presidential candidate, introduced a resolution that would provide an income of $1,000 a month to every American “until COVID-19 no longer presents a public health emergency.”

In an effort to stop the spread of the virus, the U.S. has imposed travel bans on several countries hardest-hit by the pandemic, and dozens of large events and conferences have been canceled or postponed.


Lawmakers call for universal basic income amid coronavirus crisis

As Democrats use this unfortunate situation to promote their political agenda, and attempt to create more government dependents, Universal Income is now being thrown out there. $1,000 a month to every American? Does that include children? How would handing every American a thousand bucks a month help with COVID 19?

I'm sure most people cannot quit their job or stay home from work getting $1,000 a month, so what exactly is this money, handed out by the federal government now 23 trillion dollars in debt, supposed to do for the people? Who declares when this public health emergency has ended?

I've talked about UI before, but only in light of replacing all social programs, which in the long run would save the government money. But to pass out money like candy at Halloween is just a ridiculous idea. But as the Democrats believe, never let a good crisis go to waste.
Those who have made it clear that they aren't interested in working and prefer mooching on the sides of streets, don't deserve dime one; the same holds true of the drug/alcohol addicts. Their deliberate disobedience of the laws should also negate them from any monetary reward, as they would only funnel it into their addiction. No illegal migrant should be given dime one. Let them return to their own nation and get money from their government.
I totally agree with the immigration. I don't think we should be supporting their kids either. If they can't take care of the kids, ship them to an orphanage instead of giving them goodies. They don't belong here in the first place.

On the path we're on, social programs will always be a problem for people, and the social programs will always win. They have all of our lives. UBI settles that problem once and for all. I've also worked with (and I'm sure most people here have) people who don't have the intelligence to ever make a good living. It's not their fault. None of us can help the way we were born. Oh, they work hard, but just don't have the intelligence to do anything but menial jobs that pay low wages. Because they are totally capable of working, they can't get any aid from the government, and will live in poverty their entire life through no fault of their own.

I just see UBI as solving so many problems. Will it create other problems? Perhaps, but nearly as many that it could solve.
A UBI is the surest way to run this nation's economy into the ground and render all, poor. You can only steal from peoples pocketbooks until there's no more to suck out of them.
 

mikegriffith1

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The caveat that the income would only last until COVID-19 no longer poses a threat is an important one. With that caveat, I don't have a problem with the idea.
 

Cecilie1200

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The caveat that the income would only last until COVID-19 no longer poses a threat is an important one. With that caveat, I don't have a problem with the idea.
The difference is that this relief package falls under the heading of the Takings Clause; the government locking down businesses and quarantining people is the reason why their financial situation is precarious, not because of any faults of their own.

That's not to say that I think the government was wrong to impose quarantines. But it still amounts to the government taking their property - in this case, their vested interest in their incomes - for government purposes, and being obligated to compensate them for it.

Ongoing payments with no set limit, on the other hand, is just welfare.
 

Mac-7

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If everyone is guaranteed the same income whether they work or not and whether they are a brain surgeon or a trash collector, why would anyone work?
I don't think it could replace an income unless you work at Walmart stocking shelves. But I always found it an interesting concept if we removed all social programs and replaced it with UI. It would solve so many problems in this country, and this coming from a conservative.
Prices, and expenses, will rise to meet the additional "free money."
I don't know about that. Why would expenses rise? My concept is that instead of giving money exclusively to one group of people, give it equally to all.
Price of goods rise to meet the availability of money.
Tuition rises when government gets involved because people can bow "afford" higher tuition

Healthcare cost rises because of government deep pockets.

If a "business" could only charge what people could actually afford (thru WORK), then that's what a product or service will cost.

Also, expenditures will always rise to meet income. That's basic human nature.
I don't think you gave very good examples. Yes, the price of healthcare is partly because of government, but only because their programs only pay providers around 2/3 of the charges for their patients. Care givers have to increase their prices to make up for those losses. There is a lot of government red tape in healthcare, that's costly as well.

College tuition is a situation of supply and demand. Back in the 70's when I was in high school, only a small percentage of those people actually went and graduated from college. Most people were gearing up for the blue collar world. But blue collar jobs don't pay what they used to, and to make a good living, you need to have a college degree. Therefore, a much higher percentage of high school graduates attend college. Less supply and higher demand dictates a dramatic increase in costs.
I disagree

Many blue collar jobs pay better the bottom college degrees

there is more demand for skilled electricians than womens study graduates

correct, the hourly rate for plumbers is equal to lawyers, and plumbers actually do something for people.
Lawyers make upper double digits to millions a year, depending on the lawyer. A friend of mine and his siblings just won a lawsuit started by their father before he died. The settlement was 700K. The lawyer got 25% just for that one case.
There are people with degrees that are working at Starbucks

Engineering graduates usually hit the ground running and are well paid

Among the bullshit degrees not so much
You will always find anomalies no matter what, but I'm speaking in general. I've met truck drivers that had degrees in things like graphics. They were only driving a truck because it paid better and were more openings. My niece is a college graduate. She's been waiting tables for the last ten years, and not because of the money either. She has a degree in biology.
When I worked at the Post Office way back when, half my co-workers had college degrees. Some of them had Master's degrees. But government pay, benefits, and job security, y'know?
Even with government, you have a better chance at advancement if you do have a degree.
Depends on the department. The USPS, at least when I worked there, was ALL about test scores, seniority, and military service (because veterans automatically got a leg up over everyone else). The job always went to the guy with the greater seniority, regardless of any qualifications beyond the basics.
Many postal workers are what I call Retired On Active Duty

I have been forced to put most of my bills on autopay because the mail is so unpredictable
Same here, they are terrible. I make sure when a new tenant moves in, I immediately letter their mailbox for the post office worker. I can't understand what is so hard about matching the name and address on the letter to the proper mailbox. It's like an impossible task for the carriers here.

I told this to a friend of mine, and my cousin, who are both mail carriers. They got so defensive and upset about it. First they said I probably didn't have addresses displayed, which of course I do, very large letters. Then they accused me of not putting the names on the box, I told them that every box has one or several names on it. In frustration, they finally said "You just don't understand, you never did the job before!!!"

I replied that no, I do not understand. I could put a letter in a mailbox when I was 8 years old. How is it these adults can't do the same???
I was constantly getting mail addressed to someone else and missing bills that never arrived

each time wrote on the letter that it was mis-delivered and take it to the post office and ask to see the supervisor

after a few times she ran out of excuses and promised to correct the problem

lately the service has been a little better
 

Lesh

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The caveat that the income would only last until COVID-19 no longer poses a threat is an important one. With that caveat, I don't have a problem with the idea.
We are all socialists now huh?

2 months ago this was considered fringe leftist
 
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Ray From Cleveland

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If everyone is guaranteed the same income whether they work or not and whether they are a brain surgeon or a trash collector, why would anyone work?
I don't think it could replace an income unless you work at Walmart stocking shelves. But I always found it an interesting concept if we removed all social programs and replaced it with UI. It would solve so many problems in this country, and this coming from a conservative.
Prices, and expenses, will rise to meet the additional "free money."
I don't know about that. Why would expenses rise? My concept is that instead of giving money exclusively to one group of people, give it equally to all.
Price of goods rise to meet the availability of money.
Tuition rises when government gets involved because people can bow "afford" higher tuition

Healthcare cost rises because of government deep pockets.

If a "business" could only charge what people could actually afford (thru WORK), then that's what a product or service will cost.

Also, expenditures will always rise to meet income. That's basic human nature.
I don't think you gave very good examples. Yes, the price of healthcare is partly because of government, but only because their programs only pay providers around 2/3 of the charges for their patients. Care givers have to increase their prices to make up for those losses. There is a lot of government red tape in healthcare, that's costly as well.

College tuition is a situation of supply and demand. Back in the 70's when I was in high school, only a small percentage of those people actually went and graduated from college. Most people were gearing up for the blue collar world. But blue collar jobs don't pay what they used to, and to make a good living, you need to have a college degree. Therefore, a much higher percentage of high school graduates attend college. Less supply and higher demand dictates a dramatic increase in costs.
I disagree

Many blue collar jobs pay better the bottom college degrees

there is more demand for skilled electricians than womens study graduates

correct, the hourly rate for plumbers is equal to lawyers, and plumbers actually do something for people.
Lawyers make upper double digits to millions a year, depending on the lawyer. A friend of mine and his siblings just won a lawsuit started by their father before he died. The settlement was 700K. The lawyer got 25% just for that one case.
There are people with degrees that are working at Starbucks

Engineering graduates usually hit the ground running and are well paid

Among the bullshit degrees not so much
You will always find anomalies no matter what, but I'm speaking in general. I've met truck drivers that had degrees in things like graphics. They were only driving a truck because it paid better and were more openings. My niece is a college graduate. She's been waiting tables for the last ten years, and not because of the money either. She has a degree in biology.
When I worked at the Post Office way back when, half my co-workers had college degrees. Some of them had Master's degrees. But government pay, benefits, and job security, y'know?
Even with government, you have a better chance at advancement if you do have a degree.
Depends on the department. The USPS, at least when I worked there, was ALL about test scores, seniority, and military service (because veterans automatically got a leg up over everyone else). The job always went to the guy with the greater seniority, regardless of any qualifications beyond the basics.
Many postal workers are what I call Retired On Active Duty

I have been forced to put most of my bills on autopay because the mail is so unpredictable
Same here, they are terrible. I make sure when a new tenant moves in, I immediately letter their mailbox for the post office worker. I can't understand what is so hard about matching the name and address on the letter to the proper mailbox. It's like an impossible task for the carriers here.

I told this to a friend of mine, and my cousin, who are both mail carriers. They got so defensive and upset about it. First they said I probably didn't have addresses displayed, which of course I do, very large letters. Then they accused me of not putting the names on the box, I told them that every box has one or several names on it. In frustration, they finally said "You just don't understand, you never did the job before!!!"

I replied that no, I do not understand. I could put a letter in a mailbox when I was 8 years old. How is it these adults can't do the same???
I was constantly getting mail addressed to someone else and missing bills that never arrived

each time wrote on the letter that it was mis-delivered and take it to the post office and ask to see the supervisor

after a few times she ran out of excuses and promised to correct the problem

lately the service has been a little better
I called repeatedly to my PO. Her response? I'll tell the mail carrier. You bimbo, the mail carrier IS the problem. Why would you ask the person that's screwing up to solve the problem they are creating? And these are the same people that want to run our healthcare?

People realized in the last couple of years how unions screw up our industry. I wonder how many decades it will take our government to realize the same thing?
 
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Ray From Cleveland

Ray From Cleveland

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The caveat that the income would only last until COVID-19 no longer poses a threat is an important one. With that caveat, I don't have a problem with the idea.
I think that's kind of what we are doing now; universal income. That is of course if this bill passes.
 
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Ray From Cleveland

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Nobody is talking about the number of businesses that will disappear...….
If we keep isolating ourselves, those businesses will close anyway.
If we don't it will be far worse.

This is real.

This said by a small business owner who had to shut his doors
I'm so happy your crystal ball is better than mine. Mine says the future is unpredictable.

You claim to be a small business owner. What happens if this problem lasts a month, two months, seven months? Would you still be supporting a shutdown when you're out of business?

Life is a risk. Nothing is guaranteed. Sure, many people can survive if we had a definitive end to the problem, especially with government support. But even this 2 trillion dollar package to supplement individuals and business alike can only carry us through a month or little more. What would we do after that?

I'm pushing 60 years old now. I have several of the major health problems outlined for those who are at high risk of death. But if I have to live this way for God knows how long, I would sooner take those risks than live in fear for months or years.
 

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