TULIP (God calls some to atheism)

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Weird that's what you say when you discovered the Bible did mention it,

Oh really? Quote those verses for us. You SURE? You SURE it's not one of those, "fill in the blanks to retrofit to the prophecy"? Of course you are sure. Which is why you are going to quote, very quickly and easily, the verses for us that will in no way look like you filled in some blanks to retrofit it.

The Messiah Would Be a Descendant of David - Jews for Jesus

The prophets looked for a day when this promise would be fulfilled in an ultimate descendant of David—the Messiah—who would rule over Israel.

jewsforjesus.org

Oops, you forgot to quote any verses. Looks like i was right... Someone filled in some blanks to make it mean what they wanted it to mean, and you parroted their efforts.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The Bible didn't need to mention it.

Of course not, as it is a book of nonsense whose followers will make it mean what they want it to mean, no matter what it says. The luxury of magical religious nonsense.

Either the bible was wrong, or you are wrong. Same for ding. Sorry guys.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Neither are wrong. Here is another example:
Jesus fed 5,000 followers with bread and fish. Truth is there was probably more like 10,000. Does that make the Bible wrong? No. Because the book was written for Jews by Jews. And they already knew that only men were counted. Women and children were not. And we know children were there. Jesus used one of their lunches to feed the crowd.

If you don't understand Jewish tradition, then you have no way to guage what you read as being true or not.

 

[BreezeWood]

Neither are wrong. Here is another example:
Jesus fed 5,000 followers with bread and fish. Truth is there was probably more like 10,000. Does that make the Bible wrong? No. Because the book was written for Jews by Jews. And they already knew that only men were counted. Women and children were not. And we know children were there. Jesus used one of their lunches to feed the crowd.

If you don't understand Jewish tradition, then you have no way to guage what you read as being true or not.

.

Jesus fed 5,000 followers with bread and fish. Truth is there was probably more like 10,000. Does that make the Bible wrong? No. Because the book was written for Jews by Jews. And they already knew that only men were counted. Women and children were not. And we know children were there. Jesus used one of their lunches to feed the crowd.

.
you prove yourself again ram - taking a life for others is a sin.

 

[ding]

Weird that's what you say when you discovered the Bible did mention it,

Oh really? Quote those verses for us. You SURE? You SURE it's not one of those, "fill in the blanks to retrofit to the prophecy"? Of course you are sure. Which is why you are going to quote, very quickly and easily, the verses for us that will in no way look like you filled in some blanks to retrofit it.

The Messiah Would Be a Descendant of David - Jews for Jesus

The prophets looked for a day when this promise would be fulfilled in an ultimate descendant of David—the Messiah—who would rule over Israel.

jewsforjesus.org

Oops, you forgot to quote any verses. Looks like i was right... Someone filled in some blanks to make it mean what they wanted it to mean, and you parroted their efforts.

Did I? From the link you never clicked on...


Reference: 2 Samuel 7:12–16; Isaiah 11:1; Jeremiah 23:5–6;
Fulfillment: Matthew 1:1; Luke 1:32–33; Acts 15:15–16; Hebrews 1:5

Second Samuel 7 features God’s promise to raise up David’s descendant Solomon as king, with the promise that he would build the Temple (“a house”) in verse 13. Yet the “house” also means the line of Davidic descendants, as verse 16 suggests (“Your house and your kingdom shall be made sure forever before me”). This promise includes a father-son relationship between God and the Davidic kings (verse 14); a warning that royal sin will come with consequences (verse 14 — amply illustrated in the history of Israel’s and Judah’s kings); but a promise that the Davidic kingship would always remain objects of God’s chesed (“steadfast love”) and would be everlasting.

The prophets of ancient Israel looked for a day when this promise would be fulfilled in an ultimate descendant of David — the Messiah – who would rule over the nation. Isaiah 11:1, in a great messianic passage, tells us that “there shall come forth a shoot from the stump of Jesse, and a branch from his roots shall bear fruit.” Jesse, as we learn elsewhere, was the father of David. Jeremiah writes: “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will raise up for David a righteous Branch, and he shall reign as king and deal wisely, and shall execute justice and righteousness in the land. In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell securely. And this is the name by which he will be called: ‘The Lord is our righteousness’” (Jeremiah 23:5–6).

The New Testament presents Jesus as the fulfillment of this requirement for the Messiah, that he be descended from King David. And so we have verses such as:

The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. (Matthew 1:1)
He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end. (Luke 1:32–33)

In addition, both Matthew and Luke provide genealogies tracing Jesus back to David.

The title “Son of David” is found on the lips of various people in the gospel accounts, for example, a blind beggar sitting near the road:

When he heard that it was Jesus of Nazareth, he began to cry out and say, “Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me!” (Mark 10:47)

Jesus’ Davidic descent is also implied in Acts 15:15–16, in which James quotes Amos 9

With this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written, “After this I will return, and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen; I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it.” (Acts 15:15-16)

The “tent of David” mentioned by Amos and quoted by James refers to the house or line of David. To rebuild the house of David implies the coming of the Messiah.

And in a quote combining Psalm 2 and this passage in 2 Samuel, we read concerning Jesus:

For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you”? Or again, “I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son”? (Hebrew 1:5)

The New Testament, therefore, consistently depicts Jesus as a descendant of David (for an apparent exception, see the article on Psalm 110:1–4). The two genealogies in Matthew and Luke, however, differ from one another and this has led to questions as to whether the two gospels contradict one another. Matthew begins with Abraham and ends with Jesus. Luke begins with Jesus “being the son (as was supposed) of Joseph” (Luke 3:23) and works backward beyond Abraham all the way to Adam. Matthew traces the line through Solomon, David’s son (the royal line), while Luke traces it through Nathan, a different son (a non-royal line).

It is possible that Matthew traces Jesus’ descent through Joseph, and Luke through Mary, who is assumed then to also be of Davidic descent. Or, if both run through Joseph, the difference can be accounted for by certain laws of inheritance by which, in the case of those who die childless, another family member inherits (and thus that person’s name enters the genealogy); or by the custom of levirate marriage, whereby the brother of a man who died childless raises up descendants for the deceased (and his name thereby enters the genealogy). These ideas have been discussed for many years. We should note that the early followers of Jesus never saw a contradiction in the genealogies, but saw both as proof that Jesus was descended from David – even if both take different routes down the family tree to get there. As scholar Michael Brown has observed, “Common sense would also tell you that the followers of Jesus, who were totally dedicated to demonstrating to both Jews and Gentiles that he was truly the Messiah and Savior, would not preserve and pass on two impossibly contradictory genealogies.”1 Just because we cannot figure out why the genealogies differ doesn’t mean there cannot be a good explanation, even if it is not entirely clear to us some two thousand years later. The problem, as C. S. Lewis said in another connection, is that “all the men who know the facts are dead and can’t blow the gaff.”

But that Jesus is descended from David is a fact.

End Notes
1. Michael L. Brown, Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus, vol. 4 New Testament Objections (Grand Rapids: Baker Books, 2007), 76. For a detailed discussion of the differences and problems in the genealogies, see this book, sections 5.10 through 5.12.

 

[ding]

The Bible didn't need to mention it.

Of course not, as it is a book of nonsense whose followers will make it mean what they want it to mean, no matter what it says. The luxury of magical religious nonsense.

Either the bible was wrong, or you are wrong. Same for ding. Sorry guys.

Don't feel sorry for me. I have joy and happiness. Feel sorry for yourself.

 

[presonorek]

You have mental health issues. Abandonment, delusions, self-loathing... Go for a tune up.

Does that apply to all persons with a religious belief of any kind or just certain religious beliefs ?

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

God calls some to be atheists by not calling them

That's NOT how it works.
You have a part.
it is YOU who rejects God, so He reaches out to the ONE who has a heart He can work with.

its 100% on you

 

[BreezeWood]

God calls some to be atheists by not calling them. Is this ok?

That's NOT how it works.
You have a part.
it is YOU who rejects God, so He reaches out to the ONE who has a heart He can work with.

its 100% on you

that is true, with the knowledge or not for a spiritual ascension after physiological expiration - what is not necessary and for the better is ever reading the books of the desert religions written by crucifiers, murderers and liars.

 

[presonorek]

That's NOT how it works.
You have a part.
it is YOU who rejects God, so He reaches out to the ONE who has a heart He can work with.

its 100% on you

What is the difference between Calvinism and Armenianism?

This thread is about Calvinist thought. If you reject Calvinist thought then this thread will not make sense.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

What is the difference between Calvinism and Armenianism?

This thread is about Calvinist thought. If you reject Calvinist thought then this thread will not make sense.

You care about men's ideas. I don't. Jesus is Lord. Not "Calvin."

You're looking to the wrong person for understanding.

God will give atheists what they want -- NOTHING. Christians will get what they want. I choose to follow Jesus

 

[presonorek]

You care about men's ideas. I don't. Jesus is Lord. Not "Calvin."

You're looking to the wrong person for understanding.

God will give atheists what they want -- NOTHING. Christians will get what they want. I choose to follow Jesus

I am 43 years old. I have obeyed every single thing Jesus has said to me and I will continue to live my life that way.

Just because Jesus tells you things and doesn’t tell me anything doesn’t make me less obedient.

 

[presonorek]

God will give atheists what they want --

A good portion of atheists, including myself, want God to prove his existence much in the way humans prove their existence. I don’t have evidence that George Clooney exists but that doesn’t mean George Clooney doesn’t exist. It just means George Clooney doesn’t want anything from me. He probably doesn’t. Either way, what people tell me George Clooney wants from me or what people tell me God wants from me are entirely irrelevant to my life.

If George Clooney wants something from me he will have to contact me himself. None of this bs of sending messengers with questionable motives to tell me what he wants. I expect the same courtesy from God even though I should expect more. He is apparently omnipotent and could have proven Himself to me in a variety of ways but has chosen not to or He doesn’t have the capability. Deep down you know what I say makes 100% sense.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

A good portion of atheists, including myself, want God to prove his existence much in the way humans prove their existence. I don’t have evidence that George Clooney exists but that doesn’t mean George Clooney doesn’t exist. It just means George Clooney doesn’t want anything from me. He probably doesn’t. Either way, what people tell me George Clooney wants from me or what people tell me God wants from me are entirely irrelevant to my life.

If George Clooney wants something from me he will have to contact me himself. None of this bs of sending messengers with questionable motives to tell me what he wants. I expect the same courtesy from God even though I should expect more. He is apparently omnipotent and could have proven Himself to me in a variety of ways but has chosen not to or He doesn’t have the capability. Deep down you know what I say makes 100% sense.

Good luck. Hope Calvin can explain it to you instead of Jesus

 

[presonorek]

Good luck. Hope Calvin can explain it to you instead of Jesus

He has did the best job of anybody living or dead that I have ever found.

Have you ever read the Institutes of the Christian Religion? His theological writings are considered the best in existence but if I were you I wouldn’t read and learn. Just keep having coffee with God every morning and making plans for the day. Getting it directly from the source is a lot more efficient but be fair to the rest of us. Over 99.9999989899999899999888888 % of humans ever to exist have never heard God speak. Don’t be so arrogant.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

He has did the best job of anybody living or dead that I have ever found.

Have you ever read the Institutes of the Christian Religion? His theological writings are considered the best in existence but if I were you I wouldn’t read and learn. Just keep having coffee with God every morning and making plans for the day. Getting it directly from the source is a lot more efficient but be fair to the rest of us. Over 99.9999989899999899999888888 % of humans ever to exist have never heard God speak. Don’t be so arrogant.

No. I follow Christ, His apostles and the prophets. And I'm not an atheist.

 

[buttercup]

Calvinism is pure evil, iyam.

No wonder you left Christianity. Apparently you believed a false version of it. How sad.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Calvinism is pure evil, iyam.

No wonder you left Christianity. Apparently you believed a false version of it. How sad.

Exactly. This verse comes to mind:

always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.(K) 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses,(L) so also these teachers oppose(M) the truth

 

[cnm]

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

This is what happens when the God Haters try to make sense of the Scriptures.

This was commanded FOR THE PEOPLE so they would understand that sin leads to DEATH and the need for a Redeemer.

It was done FOR the People, not God