TULIP (God calls some to atheism)

[ding]

Has anyone ever spoken to God?

Only those who pray.

Has God ever spoken to a human?

All the time, through the Holy Spirit who speaks in a very quiet voice.

So someone has recorded this?

The question is what would that actually look like, right?

So nobody has recorded this voice. Got it. Then you all must simply imagine it.

Are you expecting magic again, Taz?

I'm just going by what YOU said.

"the Holy Spirit who speaks in a very quiet voice"

So either god is speaking for real, or you're imagining it. Which is it?

We both know better what you meant, Taz. You dismiss and ridicule what you don't understand.

From my own personal experiences I have had revelations that when they popped into my head I instantly recognized that they were true. Mind you I am not describing religious revelations, but ordinary everyday kind of things about my ordinary everyday issues that I am confronted with. Usually they happen in the morning when I am in that halfway state of being asleep and being awake. There is only one time when we are not conscious of self and that is when we are asleep. So it makes perfect sense to me that that is the time I am most receptive to the spirit which binds us but is not a part of the material world. This is how I believe revelations work.

You keep worshiping yourself and I'll keep worshiping the creator of existence and we'll see who leads the the more harmonious and peaceful life.

So basically, you’re living in a dreamworld.

Like I said before... You keep worshiping yourself and I'll keep worshiping the creator of existence and we'll see who leads the the more harmonious and peaceful life.

You're worshipping a fantasy. If that brings you peace, I'm not against that.

How do you know?

Because you've shown no empirical proof for your invisible magician.

Untrue. The existence of God can be known through the light of human reason by examining what He created. What you mean to say is that you reject all evidence for God. There is no evidence you will accept as proof of God's existence. And then there is Jesus Christ.

But no one knows who, how or why the universe was created. I'd accept real, tangible empirical evidence. And you don't have that. For you, it's "my magical invisible friend exists because the universe exists. And my invisible friend cares how we live our live, well... just because."

The just because is because virtue is logical, taz. As for your failure to investigate the only evidence you will ever have until you enter into a relationship with the Creator, that's on you.

And then there is Jesus Christ.

None of what you said is empirical proof. So you still have nothing but a fantasy.

Actually it is. If you created something I could use it as evidence. Anything tangible can be used as evidence, dum dum.

But you have nothing that points to an invisible magician as the culprit. Cumlicker.

I wouldn't believe in an invisible magician either, dummy. But existence is the evidence you are looking for.

 

[ding]

What would it take to assure you that God is real and God cares about you?

The same way you would prove you are real. I would want Him to stand right in front me me and say, “hi”. That would convince me.

Why should convincing you be important exactly?

Because people like you say that god kingdom is so fantastic, I want to see it for myself. But so far, nothing but goose eggs.

Then go and find it. No one is stopping you but you.

Nobody has any idea where to send me, or go themselves.

I had no problem.

But you made it up.

How do you know?

Because you're not able to prove your invisible friend no matter how many times you repeat the same thing.

Existence says otherwise.

And so does Jesus

 

[Grumblenuts]

I don't recall Jesus mentioning the dinosaurs within all that allegory. There had to be at least one Dino in that massive list of begets, begats, and begots!

What relevance is this? Dinosaur wasn’t even a word until 1841.

Figuratively speaking. If you're going to have an all knowing god / creator type, even one prone to speaking in allegorical terms, then I expect a "Genesis" section to include some significant mention of dinosaurs, no matter what the actual terminology. Don't have a cow. Your mileage may vary!

 

[Meriweather]

All of the important things in life are already decided for us. We cant decide when we are born. We can’t choose our parents. For the first 18 years of our life we really only get to choose things if our parents allow us to choose things. The values we have are all a product of our environment that was imposed upon us by external forces.

And from this I learned that God is with us despite our circumstances; can work with us despite where we find ourselves. From a very young age I was taught we are here to know God, love God, serve God, and be happy with Him. That is doable in all times, places, and circumstances. We are all children of God; we are all predestined to be with Him--unless we deliberately choose otherwise. God has already chosen us. The question for us is whether we choose God.

 

[Meriweather]

the concept of divine Providence or predestination resonates with me based on similarities to my observable surroundings. It also never made sense to me even as a child why God was obligated to give us salvation when we recited a “sinners prayer” and had a sincere heart. It just seems like an all powerful God should have the right to refuse if He wanted.

The concept of God being "obligated" is foreign to me and I cannot make sense of it. Is a stream "obligated" to provide you with water, or is it simply there for you? Salvation/Redemption is the same. It is simply there for us to embrace--or not.

 

[Taz]

Has anyone ever spoken to God?

Only those who pray.

Has God ever spoken to a human?

All the time, through the Holy Spirit who speaks in a very quiet voice.

So someone has recorded this?

The question is what would that actually look like, right?

So nobody has recorded this voice. Got it. Then you all must simply imagine it.

Are you expecting magic again, Taz?

I'm just going by what YOU said.

"the Holy Spirit who speaks in a very quiet voice"

So either god is speaking for real, or you're imagining it. Which is it?

We both know better what you meant, Taz. You dismiss and ridicule what you don't understand.

From my own personal experiences I have had revelations that when they popped into my head I instantly recognized that they were true. Mind you I am not describing religious revelations, but ordinary everyday kind of things about my ordinary everyday issues that I am confronted with. Usually they happen in the morning when I am in that halfway state of being asleep and being awake. There is only one time when we are not conscious of self and that is when we are asleep. So it makes perfect sense to me that that is the time I am most receptive to the spirit which binds us but is not a part of the material world. This is how I believe revelations work.

You keep worshiping yourself and I'll keep worshiping the creator of existence and we'll see who leads the the more harmonious and peaceful life.

So basically, you’re living in a dreamworld.

Like I said before... You keep worshiping yourself and I'll keep worshiping the creator of existence and we'll see who leads the the more harmonious and peaceful life.

You're worshipping a fantasy. If that brings you peace, I'm not against that.

How do you know?

Because you've shown no empirical proof for your invisible magician.

Untrue. The existence of God can be known through the light of human reason by examining what He created. What you mean to say is that you reject all evidence for God. There is no evidence you will accept as proof of God's existence. And then there is Jesus Christ.

But no one knows who, how or why the universe was created. I'd accept real, tangible empirical evidence. And you don't have that. For you, it's "my magical invisible friend exists because the universe exists. And my invisible friend cares how we live our live, well... just because."

The just because is because virtue is logical, taz. As for your failure to investigate the only evidence you will ever have until you enter into a relationship with the Creator, that's on you.

And then there is Jesus Christ.

None of what you said is empirical proof. So you still have nothing but a fantasy.

Actually it is. If you created something I could use it as evidence. Anything tangible can be used as evidence, dum dum.

But you have nothing that points to an invisible magician as the culprit. Cumlicker.

I wouldn't believe in an invisible magician either, dummy. But existence is the evidence you are looking for.

How does existence tie into your invisible friend? Fudge packer.

 

[Taz]

Existence says otherwise.

And so does Jesus

Jesus says?

 

[ding]

What would it take to assure you that God is real and God cares about you?

The same way you would prove you are real. I would want Him to stand right in front me me and say, “hi”. That would convince me.

Why should convincing you be important exactly?

Because people like you say that god kingdom is so fantastic, I want to see it for myself. But so far, nothing but goose eggs.

Then go and find it. No one is stopping you but you.

Just tell us how you found God so that we can use the same method. It turns out this is quite a complicated process for some reason.

Have you ever considered that God hates some people and loves others? (Like the Bible says). If God hates me then He probably doesn’t want me to find Him.

John Calvin is considered the greatest theologian of all times. John Calvin taught that God chooses some and ignores others. His theology actually makes sense and is consistent with the observation of myself and many atheists.

You seem to be an amateur theologian with a theology that makes no sense whatsoever. Are you sure that you and Calvin knew the same god?

Your theology is lacking an explanation for why God reveals Himself to you but refuses to reveal Himself to me. Calvinism explains it plainly and clearly.

Why? You aren't interested in it. You are here to amuse yourself. Besides, I don't believe you are willing or capable to do what is required. But on the off chance I have you pegged all wrong, it's simple. Die to self. Of course, simple does not necessarily mean easy.

So maybe Calvin wasn't as knowledgeable as he thought he was or as you think he was. God is reality and the only way anyone will ever see reality is to die to self. When you can do that you will see how God has worked in your life.

wtf does "die to self" means? Anything?

It means you should stop loving yourself so much that you can't see reality.

 

[ding]

Has anyone ever spoken to God?

Only those who pray.

Has God ever spoken to a human?

All the time, through the Holy Spirit who speaks in a very quiet voice.

So someone has recorded this?

The question is what would that actually look like, right?

So nobody has recorded this voice. Got it. Then you all must simply imagine it.

Are you expecting magic again, Taz?

I'm just going by what YOU said.

"the Holy Spirit who speaks in a very quiet voice"

So either god is speaking for real, or you're imagining it. Which is it?

We both know better what you meant, Taz. You dismiss and ridicule what you don't understand.

From my own personal experiences I have had revelations that when they popped into my head I instantly recognized that they were true. Mind you I am not describing religious revelations, but ordinary everyday kind of things about my ordinary everyday issues that I am confronted with. Usually they happen in the morning when I am in that halfway state of being asleep and being awake. There is only one time when we are not conscious of self and that is when we are asleep. So it makes perfect sense to me that that is the time I am most receptive to the spirit which binds us but is not a part of the material world. This is how I believe revelations work.

You keep worshiping yourself and I'll keep worshiping the creator of existence and we'll see who leads the the more harmonious and peaceful life.

So basically, you’re living in a dreamworld.

Like I said before... You keep worshiping yourself and I'll keep worshiping the creator of existence and we'll see who leads the the more harmonious and peaceful life.

You're worshipping a fantasy. If that brings you peace, I'm not against that.

How do you know?

Because you've shown no empirical proof for your invisible magician.

Untrue. The existence of God can be known through the light of human reason by examining what He created. What you mean to say is that you reject all evidence for God. There is no evidence you will accept as proof of God's existence. And then there is Jesus Christ.

But no one knows who, how or why the universe was created. I'd accept real, tangible empirical evidence. And you don't have that. For you, it's "my magical invisible friend exists because the universe exists. And my invisible friend cares how we live our live, well... just because."

The just because is because virtue is logical, taz. As for your failure to investigate the only evidence you will ever have until you enter into a relationship with the Creator, that's on you.

And then there is Jesus Christ.

None of what you said is empirical proof. So you still have nothing but a fantasy.

Actually it is. If you created something I could use it as evidence. Anything tangible can be used as evidence, dum dum.

But you have nothing that points to an invisible magician as the culprit. Cumlicker.

I wouldn't believe in an invisible magician either, dummy. But existence is the evidence you are looking for.

How does existence tie into your invisible friend? Fudge packer.

God created it so you could share in His existence.

 

[ding]

Existence says otherwise.

And so does Jesus

Jesus says?

Jesus IS.

 

[Meriweather]

they let us have Bibles. I actually read

Look intently, but you shall not see; listen carefully, but you shall not understand. These verses from Isaiah have meant a lot to me down through the years. There is much we do not see, do not understand. However in depth Bible STUDY (not reading) can get us further. For example, why didn't Noah speak until after the flood? Then, when he did speak, what was the effect? Did reading the account bring any enlightenment? How did the account of Noah set in the background of a great flood, differ from other accounts with a great flood setting?

Do you know what I got from reading (hearing) Bible stories in Little Golden Book format? I learned that God interacted with people. Before I could read I announced to my parents that God with interact with me, too. They laughed and explained that God didn't do that any more. My immediate thought: "Well, He's just going to have to do it again with me." I began seeking God as a toddler, before I could even read.

 

[ding]

The Christians that bother me are the sincere ones. They are just setting themselves up to be conned by all sorts of people.

Those who bother me most are the ones who sincerely believe they know what someone believes, and how and why they came to that belief. Your fear for me (and other people of faith) is unfounded. Be not afraid...

I am not afraid of you. You reject the parts of the Bible that you do not like.

You misspelled... "we reject your silly understanding of the Bible." Maybe if you didn't attend Westboro Baptist Church you wouldn't have accepted such silly interpretations without thinking for yourself.

.

you wouldn't have accepted such silly interpretations without thinking for yourself.

.
such as believing the - creator of the universe - lived in mary's womb for 9 months ... you are who is afraid without your makebelieve and self serving messiah.

Yep. Such as the Creator of existence choosing to be born into this world to testify to the truth and suffer death to reconcile justice with mercy. Maybe if you and vasuderatorrent had shared in Christ's experience in suffering death - as He intended - you would have been humbled enough to die to self too and see reality.

.

- such as believing the - creator of the universe - lived in mary's womb for 9 months ...

Yep. Such as the Creator of existence choosing to be born into this world to testify to the truth and suffer death to reconcile justice with mercy. Maybe if you and vasuderatorrent had shared in Christ's experience in suffering death - as He intended - you would have been humbled enough to die to self too and see reality.

.
was it an allegory ...

how is being crucified a reconcile of justice - then, the crucifiers writing a book 3 centuries latter what a good guy they were. bing.

too bad they were not left to write the memoir themselves.

Because we were spared (mercy). Because He wasn't spared (justice).

And no, the Creator of existence choosing to be born into this world to testify to the truth and suffer death to reconcile justice with mercy was not allegorical.

 

[Meriweather]

the shallow garbage I learned growing up.

You could have (and should be now) digging deeper. Look intently, listen carefully. And get over thinking that you learned everything there is to know about the Bible as a child. You didn't even scratch the surface. Could you build a mansion as a child? Then what makes you think you could truly understand the Bible as a child?

 

[Grumblenuts]

In my childhood, my sister liked to play Santa and my mom the Tooth Fairy. Then I grew up, learned to think critically, and stopped believing in such nonsense altogether.

 

[Meriweather]

In my childhood, my sister liked to play Santa and my mom the Tooth Fairy. Then I grew up, learned to think critically, and stopped believing in such nonsense altogether.

In my childhood, I pretended a branch on a tree was a race horse, that I lived on a farm...pretended all sorts of things. Reality was taking care of little siblings, cleaning bathrooms, pulling weeds, etc. Imagine my delight when I learned that adults world wide could pretend something as delightful as Santa, a tooth fairy, an Easter bunny, etc in the midst of their greater reality of raising a family, earning a living, cooking, cleaning, etc.

I think by age seven or eight most of us understood the difference between reality and pretending. Reality is greater than cleaning bathrooms and earning a living. It is also much greater than pretending.

 

[Grumblenuts]

And your point? {apparently fantasy is what's real for you.. lovely}

the concept of divine Providence or predestination resonates with me based on similarities to my observable surroundings. It also never made sense to me even as a child why God was obligated to give us salvation when we recited a “sinners prayer” and had a sincere heart. It just seems like an all powerful God should have the right to refuse if He wanted.

The concept of God being "obligated" is foreign to me and I cannot make sense of it. Is a stream "obligated" to provide you with water, or is it simply there for you? Salvation/Redemption is the same. It is simply there for us to embrace--or not.

"the right to refuse if He wanted."
"simply there for us to embrace--or not."

The 10 Commandments List, Short Form*

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall not make idols.
3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
5. Honor your father and your mother.
6. You shall not murder.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. You shall not covet.

 

[ding]

In my childhood, my sister liked to play Santa and my mom the Tooth Fairy. Then I grew up, learned to think critically, and stopped believing in such nonsense altogether.

I believe you confuse critical theory for critical thinking. Critical thinking is the practice of challenging what one does believe to test its validity. Critical theory is the practice of criticizing what you don't believe to arrive at what you do believe without ever examining what you believe.

So just to be clear... you believe that it was just a coincidence that the universe popped into existence being hardwired to produce intelligence?

 

[Meriweather]

And your point?

Critical thinking. Reality. I chose reality while you are engaged in "critical thinking" whatever you imagine that might be.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Dream on

 

[Hollie]

And your point?

Critical thinking. Reality. I chose reality while you are engaged in "critical thinking" whatever you imagine that might be.

I think that reality including Arks sailing the seas, men living for 900 years, animal sacrifice, etc., warp the concept of reality. The gods might have taken the time to edit the books written about them. They chose not to. Why did they not require the reader to understand allegory vs. literal rendering of the tales? Why did they not acknowledge that "hey, we're sort of right but those Egyptian gods, yeah, they were really right".