Trump said we pay for 90% of what NATO gets. Do you believe him?

[Picaro]

We don't have the manufacturing capabilities we had when WW I and WW II broke out for one thing, so the 'bring them all home' silliness isn't a good idea, and having a lot of forward bases is very much a great idea, and keeps the conflicts away from our shores. We learned isolationism is a joke and not a real possibility TWICE in the last century alone, so no need to make that mistake a third time, and with far less ability to respond to boot. You think the cost is high now, just wait until you have to rebuild entire industries from scratch while trying to stave off invasions and attacks while your trade routes are completely shut down by a dozen junk subs sent from some shtihole like NK.

 

[Picaro]

FACT CHECK: Trump's Claims On NATO Spending

No, US does not pay for 70 or 90 percent of NATO

Obama applauds halt to decline in NATO spending

How NATO is funded and who pays what

We all saw Trump say the US pays 90% of what goes to NATO during this trip to Europe. In fact he said it more than once.

So what does the US actually pay?

22%

Yep, 22%, not 90%.

And it was back in 2014 that Obama demanded NATO paid more. And after the Russian invasion of the Ukraine and the annexation of Crimea, they got on the ball. They scheduled the increases into their economy. and we saw the amount they pay increasing a couple of years ago. Before Trump took office.

So the upcoming increases were negotiated by Obama, not Trump.

It's all right there. Easy to look up. VERY recent history. Believe what you want, but those are the facts.

/----/ Even left wing CNN says different:

These NATO countries are not spending their fair share on defense
New spending data released on Monday show the U.S. shells out far more money on defense than any other nation on the planet.

According to NATO statistics, the U.S. spent an estimated $650 billion on defense last year. That's more than double the amount all the other 27 NATO countries spent between them, even though their combined GDP tops that of the U.S.

The U.S. share is calculated on the basis of gross national income — the total domestic and foreign output claimed by residents of a country — and adjusted regularly. Currently that would be about 22 percent, compared to about 15 percent for Germany, 11 percent for France, 10 percent for the United Kingdom, 8 percent for Italy, 7 percent for Canada, and so forth.

It's not the over all picture and you know it


BTW only two countries paid us back for WWII...Great Britain a few years ago and Turkey..the rest still owes us





.

Actually I think Finland did; don't recall anything about Turkey ever paying anybody back for anything, but I suppose it's possible, no problem.

 

[JakeStarkey]

'canada' is full of aging 'no military' hippie types that took off for 'canada' in the 60s and 70s . Most likely 'canada' and its military is run by those aging hippies Sur . --- We've given up on Canada's military, so let's abandon it altogether - Macleans.ca ---

pismoe's piece is a sarcasm spoof but makes some very salient point. It notes that the conservatives are every bit as bad as the liberals in Canada in terms of taking care of the armed forces:

The Conservative track record on supporting the Canadian military is just as bad. The Navy rusted out on their watch. And in spite of (or perhaps because of) the Afghanistan deployment, defence procurement completely broke down. Nonetheless, former prime minister Stephen Harper was always happy to pose with members of the Canadian military. Because for parties of all stripes, that is the single most important role of the Armed Forces—optics. It allows politicians to look bold, and it allows the country to pretend that we are a useful ally.

If I am reading this right, the ground forces are generally in good shape, but the Navy and Air Force to need to straighten up and sail and fly right.

Both parties seem to have a problem with that.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

We don't have the manufacturing capabilities we had when WW I and WW II broke out for one thing, so the 'bring them all home' silliness isn't a good idea, and having a lot of forward bases is very much a great idea, and keeps the conflicts away from our shores. We learned isolationism is a joke and not a real possibility TWICE in the last century alone, so no need to make that mistake a third time, and with far less ability to respond to boot. You think the cost is high now, just wait until you have to rebuild entire industries from scratch while trying to stave off invasions and attacks while your trade routes are completely shut down by a dozen junk subs sent from some shtihole like NK.

Isolationism is an intellectually dishonest retort as nobody has called for any such thing.

As for North Korea, they wouldn't be a threat to us today had we not interfered in the Korean's affairs in the first place by engaging them in war.

 

[Picaro]

Yes, and we need to close them out and bring our soldiers back to our own borders.

The military is NOT a border patrol! Come on man! How many times does this have to be explained?

The military is NOT an empire building apparatus either nor does it exist to fight everyone else's wars. World War II is over. The Cold War is over. Our military's job is to defend OUR nation, not everyone else's. In case you didn't notice we have a $22 trillion debt. We can't afford this largess anymore.

Nice goalpost move.

Back to my point please!

There was no goalpost move. That was my point from the very beginning. Yes, our military IS about patrolling our own borders and keeping our nation safe from invasion.

No, that would be the Border Patrol and Coast Guard.

You also need to learn the definition of an empire.

yes, the 'empire' claim is just ridiculous; it comes from old Soviet propaganda and never dies, because is sound oh so dramatic n stuff. Who can support an 'Empire', after all? They're all evil to boot, completely unlike all those shitholes that aren't empires n stuff ... like tiny innocent North Korea, or Yemen.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

The military is NOT a border patrol! Come on man! How many times does this have to be explained?

The military is NOT an empire building apparatus either nor does it exist to fight everyone else's wars. World War II is over. The Cold War is over. Our military's job is to defend OUR nation, not everyone else's. In case you didn't notice we have a $22 trillion debt. We can't afford this largess anymore.

Nice goalpost move.

Back to my point please!

There was no goalpost move. That was my point from the very beginning. Yes, our military IS about patrolling our own borders and keeping our nation safe from invasion.

No, that would be the Border Patrol and Coast Guard.

You also need to learn the definition of an empire.

yes, the 'empire' claim is just ridiculous; it comes from old Soviet propaganda and never dies, because is sound oh so dramatic n stuff. Who can support an 'Empire', after all? They're all evil to boot, completely unlike all those shitholes that aren't empires n stuff ... like tiny innocent North Korea, or Yemen.

No, the empire claim is not ridiculous. That's exactly what we were doing in Korea, Vietnam, and Iraq. None of those nations were a threat to our country, but we invaded and engaged them in war because we didn't approve of their government and thought they should be more like us.

 

[Picaro]

We don't have the manufacturing capabilities we had when WW I and WW II broke out for one thing, so the 'bring them all home' silliness isn't a good idea, and having a lot of forward bases is very much a great idea, and keeps the conflicts away from our shores. We learned isolationism is a joke and not a real possibility TWICE in the last century alone, so no need to make that mistake a third time, and with far less ability to respond to boot. You think the cost is high now, just wait until you have to rebuild entire industries from scratch while trying to stave off invasions and attacks while your trade routes are completely shut down by a dozen junk subs sent from some shtihole like NK.

Isolationism is an intellectually dishonest retort as nobody has called for any such thing.

No, it's exactly what you're calling for. Otherwise you would be advocating having no bases overseas while having to go back and forth, which is not even remotely 'cheaper' nor practical, and far more dangerous and lengthens response times considerably. You just like the sound of it, is all.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

We don't have the manufacturing capabilities we had when WW I and WW II broke out for one thing, so the 'bring them all home' silliness isn't a good idea, and having a lot of forward bases is very much a great idea, and keeps the conflicts away from our shores. We learned isolationism is a joke and not a real possibility TWICE in the last century alone, so no need to make that mistake a third time, and with far less ability to respond to boot. You think the cost is high now, just wait until you have to rebuild entire industries from scratch while trying to stave off invasions and attacks while your trade routes are completely shut down by a dozen junk subs sent from some shtihole like NK.

Isolationism is an intellectually dishonest retort as nobody has called for any such thing.

No, it's exactly what you're calling for. Otherwise you would be advocating having no bases overseas while having to go back and forth, which is not even remotely 'cheaper' nor practical, and far more dangerous and lengthens response times considerably. You just like the sound of it, is all.

No, isolationism is Albania, where you completely cut yourself off from the rest of the world, no trade, no nothing. Nobody has suggested any such thing, ever. And why would there be a need to send our military back and forth if we were minding our own business? If there is a perceived threat in our direction there is no reason why we can't send our soldiers to the base of an allied nation on their soil when necessary.

 

[Picaro]

The military is NOT an empire building apparatus either nor does it exist to fight everyone else's wars. World War II is over. The Cold War is over. Our military's job is to defend OUR nation, not everyone else's. In case you didn't notice we have a $22 trillion debt. We can't afford this largess anymore.

Nice goalpost move.

Back to my point please!

There was no goalpost move. That was my point from the very beginning. Yes, our military IS about patrolling our own borders and keeping our nation safe from invasion.

No, that would be the Border Patrol and Coast Guard.

You also need to learn the definition of an empire.

yes, the 'empire' claim is just ridiculous; it comes from old Soviet propaganda and never dies, because is sound oh so dramatic n stuff. Who can support an 'Empire', after all? They're all evil to boot, completely unlike all those shitholes that aren't empires n stuff ... like tiny innocent North Korea, or Yemen.

No, the empire claim is not ridiculous. That's exactly what we were doing in Korea, Vietnam, and Iraq. None of those nations were a threat to our country, but we invaded and engaged them in war because we didn't approve of their government and thought they should be more like us.

Ah so you're okay with big commie imperialists swallowing up the world, you just don't like the U.S. helping small countries defend themselves from mass murdering dictators and their imperialism. And you like that because you think your taxes would go down and you would have more stuff.

 

[Picaro]

We don't have the manufacturing capabilities we had when WW I and WW II broke out for one thing, so the 'bring them all home' silliness isn't a good idea, and having a lot of forward bases is very much a great idea, and keeps the conflicts away from our shores. We learned isolationism is a joke and not a real possibility TWICE in the last century alone, so no need to make that mistake a third time, and with far less ability to respond to boot. You think the cost is high now, just wait until you have to rebuild entire industries from scratch while trying to stave off invasions and attacks while your trade routes are completely shut down by a dozen junk subs sent from some shtihole like NK.

Isolationism is an intellectually dishonest retort as nobody has called for any such thing.

No, it's exactly what you're calling for. Otherwise you would be advocating having no bases overseas while having to go back and forth, which is not even remotely 'cheaper' nor practical, and far more dangerous and lengthens response times considerably. You just like the sound of it, is all.

No, isolationism is Albania, where you completely cut yourself off from the rest of the world, no trade, no nothing. Nobody has suggested any such thing, ever. And why would there be a need to send our military back and forth if we were minding our own business? If there is a perceived threat in our direction there is no reason why we can't send our soldiers to the base of an allied nation on their soil when necessary.

Actually that's exactly what you're advocating, and as already noted having forward bases is a whole lot safer and far more effective; just because Libertarians make ridiculous claims otherwise doesn't mean anything. Trade routes and the independence of our trading partners and allies is indeed very much 'our business'. your 'tax savings' are purely imaginary and come from fictional theories.

 

[Crepitus]

FACT CHECK: Trump's Claims On NATO Spending

No, US does not pay for 70 or 90 percent of NATO

Obama applauds halt to decline in NATO spending

How NATO is funded and who pays what

We all saw Trump say the US pays 90% of what goes to NATO during this trip to Europe. In fact he said it more than once.

So what does the US actually pay?

22%

Yep, 22%, not 90%.

And it was back in 2014 that Obama demanded NATO paid more. And after the Russian invasion of the Ukraine and the annexation of Crimea, they got on the ball. They scheduled the increases into their economy. and we saw the amount they pay increasing a couple of years ago. Before Trump took office.

So the upcoming increases were negotiated by Obama, not Trump.

It's all right there. Easy to look up. VERY recent history. Believe what you want, but those are the facts.

You're wrong dude, tRump was an absolute hard-ass while dealing with those lazy, non-paying, delinquents.

That do-nothing President Obama gave those criminals 10 whole years to get to 2% of GDP in 2014.

The fearsome Agent Orange only gave them 6 years to get to 2% of GDP in 2014.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

The military is NOT an empire building apparatus either nor does it exist to fight everyone else's wars. World War II is over. The Cold War is over. Our military's job is to defend OUR nation, not everyone else's. In case you didn't notice we have a $22 trillion debt. We can't afford this largess anymore.

Nice goalpost move.

Back to my point please!

There was no goalpost move. That was my point from the very beginning. Yes, our military IS about patrolling our own borders and keeping our nation safe from invasion.

No, that would be the Border Patrol and Coast Guard.

You also need to learn the definition of an empire.

yes, the 'empire' claim is just ridiculous; it comes from old Soviet propaganda and never dies, because is sound oh so dramatic n stuff. Who can support an 'Empire', after all? They're all evil to boot, completely unlike all those shitholes that aren't empires n stuff ... like tiny innocent North Korea, or Yemen.

No, the empire claim is not ridiculous. That's exactly what we were doing in Korea, Vietnam, and Iraq. None of those nations were a threat to our country, but we invaded and engaged them in war because we didn't approve of their government and thought they should be more like us.

You don’t think if we hadn’t saved SK that China would have taken over the whole country?

 

[Bleipriester]

We pay for Nato but what do we get? Involvement in wars we don´t want. And now we should pay even more?

What wars are those?

The only time the NATO clause has ever been used was by the United States after 9-11.

All the members of NATO stood by us and went to war with us in Afghanistan. We're still in Afghanistan and so is NATO.

Who is saying we should pay more?

Each war the US starts.

It was close for Germany and France in 2003:
U.S. backs away from vow to punish France over Iraq

 

[Muhammed]

I cringed every time he says that shit. It just feels so bad knowing your president is sitting there lying his ass off to foreigners, in their countries, when you know that THEY all know that he's lying. How embarrassing ...

President Trump is truly shameless and completely dishonors the United States, even moreso than his predecessors (Obama with his appearance of groveling and Bush with his general stupidity and naivety). Even if some of his policies are not that bad (IMO), his behavior is disgraceful.

Can you prove your ridiculous claims?

Could you at least come up with a reasonable and rational argument to back up your accusations against the USA?

 

[Correll]

FACT CHECK: Trump's Claims On NATO Spending

No, US does not pay for 70 or 90 percent of NATO

Obama applauds halt to decline in NATO spending

How NATO is funded and who pays what

We all saw Trump say the US pays 90% of what goes to NATO during this trip to Europe. In fact he said it more than once.

So what does the US actually pay?

22%

Yep, 22%, not 90%.

And it was back in 2014 that Obama demanded NATO paid more. And after the Russian invasion of the Ukraine and the annexation of Crimea, they got on the ball. They scheduled the increases into their economy. and we saw the amount they pay increasing a couple of years ago. Before Trump took office.

So the upcoming increases were negotiated by Obama, not Trump.

It's all right there. Easy to look up. VERY recent history. Believe what you want, but those are the facts.

90% sounds exaggerated. As is fairly normal for the President.


22% sounds like bullshit, by someone trying to actually lie.

 

[Stormy Daniels]

FACT CHECK: Trump's Claims On NATO Spending

No, US does not pay for 70 or 90 percent of NATO

Obama applauds halt to decline in NATO spending

How NATO is funded and who pays what

We all saw Trump say the US pays 90% of what goes to NATO during this trip to Europe. In fact he said it more than once.

So what does the US actually pay?

22%

Yep, 22%, not 90%.

And it was back in 2014 that Obama demanded NATO paid more. And after the Russian invasion of the Ukraine and the annexation of Crimea, they got on the ball. They scheduled the increases into their economy. and we saw the amount they pay increasing a couple of years ago. Before Trump took office.

So the upcoming increases were negotiated by Obama, not Trump.

It's all right there. Easy to look up. VERY recent history. Believe what you want, but those are the facts.

Remind us if NATO could take on the Minnesota national gaurd?


I doubt it.


If NATO pays so much where are their aircraft carriers? Subs???


.

You're not just barking up the wrong tree, you're climbing a giant cactus in a frozen tundra, looking for the god damned rain forest.

 

[Correll]

FACT CHECK: Trump's Claims On NATO Spending

No, US does not pay for 70 or 90 percent of NATO

Obama applauds halt to decline in NATO spending

How NATO is funded and who pays what

We all saw Trump say the US pays 90% of what goes to NATO during this trip to Europe. In fact he said it more than once.

So what does the US actually pay?

22%

Yep, 22%, not 90%.

And it was back in 2014 that Obama demanded NATO paid more. And after the Russian invasion of the Ukraine and the annexation of Crimea, they got on the ball. They scheduled the increases into their economy. and we saw the amount they pay increasing a couple of years ago. Before Trump took office.

So the upcoming increases were negotiated by Obama, not Trump.

It's all right there. Easy to look up. VERY recent history. Believe what you want, but those are the facts.

Remind us if NATO could take on the Minnesota national gaurd?


I doubt it.


If NATO pays so much where are their aircraft carriers? Subs???


.

You're not just barking up the wrong tree, you're climbing a giant cactus in a frozen tundra, looking for the god damned rain forest.

Bears asked a reasonable question.

One you were unable to answer.


THat is you, failing.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

We have the bases and all of the equipment and the people. In their countries. At our expense. We are easily covering 70% of NATO’s security costs.

Yes, and we need to close them out and bring our soldiers back to our own borders.

The military is NOT a border patrol! Come on man! How many times does this have to be explained?

The military is NOT an empire building apparatus either nor does it exist to fight everyone else's wars. World War II is over. The Cold War is over. Our military's job is to defend OUR nation, not everyone else's. In case you didn't notice we have a $22 trillion debt. We can't afford this largess anymore.

So let's stop paying people to sit on their asses all day long in rent free homes, eating free food, getting free medical care

I'm fine with that too, but you think that's going to cover the bill? And that doesn't address my point that those afforementioned things are not our military's responsibility.

You have the right to be wrong. Our military's job is to break things and kill people that threaten the well-being of this nation. That can be anywhere from Afghanistan to Zimbabwe.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

We don't have the manufacturing capabilities we had when WW I and WW II broke out for one thing, so the 'bring them all home' silliness isn't a good idea, and having a lot of forward bases is very much a great idea, and keeps the conflicts away from our shores. We learned isolationism is a joke and not a real possibility TWICE in the last century alone, so no need to make that mistake a third time, and with far less ability to respond to boot. You think the cost is high now, just wait until you have to rebuild entire industries from scratch while trying to stave off invasions and attacks while your trade routes are completely shut down by a dozen junk subs sent from some shtihole like NK.

Isolationism is an intellectually dishonest retort as nobody has called for any such thing.

As for North Korea, they wouldn't be a threat to us today had we not interfered in the Korean's affairs in the first place by engaging them in war.

I could have sworn that was the UN response.

 

[imawhosure]

FACT CHECK: Trump's Claims On NATO Spending

No, US does not pay for 70 or 90 percent of NATO

Obama applauds halt to decline in NATO spending

How NATO is funded and who pays what

We all saw Trump say the US pays 90% of what goes to NATO during this trip to Europe. In fact he said it more than once.

So what does the US actually pay?

22%

Yep, 22%, not 90%.

And it was back in 2014 that Obama demanded NATO paid more. And after the Russian invasion of the Ukraine and the annexation of Crimea, they got on the ball. They scheduled the increases into their economy. and we saw the amount they pay increasing a couple of years ago. Before Trump took office.

So the upcoming increases were negotiated by Obama, not Trump.

It's all right there. Easy to look up. VERY recent history. Believe what you want, but those are the facts.

No I don't! It is over 70% though!

What is with you people? You want to give away all of our money. Maybe that is because you do not contribute, and are on the dole, so you do not care.

In the old days, we would call that...…..TRASH!