Trump releases seven-point health care reform plan

[rightwinger]

How do you propose to cover those with preexisting conditions?

That is a problem which can only be answered with cost sharing. Kinda like car insurance. Except for one thing, if you don't have the money you don't insure a BMW. But with healthcare, there really isn't a "Hugo" option.

Covering those with a preexisting condition is the number one reason that healthcare insurers are getting out of Obamacare. It is kinda like two people go into McDonalds hungry. One orders 2 cheeseburgers, the other orders 20 cheeseburgers. They then both pay the same. How is the cost for the 22 burgers divided?

In terms of needing healthcare....would you rather be the 2 cheeseburger guy or the 20 cheeseburger guy?

Needing healthcare is not a choice

We are discussing healthcare insurance and cost.

Do you believe someone battling cancer should have to pay ten times the premium of a healthy person, just because they need to eat more cheeseburgers?

I guess fair is that both pay for 11 cheeseburgers? Or that the one buying 2 pays for 22? yeah I know, nothing is fair in life.

Yes paying for 11 cheeseburgers and not needing them is fair
Having cancer is not fair

 

[rightwinger]

The difference between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump on healthcare is that Clinton has vowed to tweak ObamaCare while Trump has vowed to repeal and replace ObamaCare with single payer. In that respect, there is almost no difference between Trump and Bernie Sanders!

Has trump recently advocated single payer?

 

[The VOR]

None of those except repealing the individual mandate require the repeal of Obamacare

Why don't Republicans work to get those ideas included in obamacare?


.

Because ObamaCare is one giant piece of shit that doesn't work and is harming more people than it's helping.

Try telling that to people who prior to the ACA kept getting turned down for health insurance because of pre-existing conditions.

 

[Flopper]

The cost of repairing a car can be determining accurately enough that the shop can give you a fixed price before the work starts which makes cost comparison relatively easy. Unfortunately, that's not possible with most serious diseases. In fact, the healthcare provider often can't even guarantee a fix at any price.

Car repairs can be determined accurately because there is competition in the car repair industry. Costs can't be determined accurately in the healthcare industry because there is no competition. There's no motive for a provider to determine it's costs accurately. It simply bills the insurance company after the fact.

Cost of treating a disease can't be determined in advance because humans do not all react the same to a given treatment. If you blow a car engine, the mechanic can give you an exact price of replacing the engine and can guarantee it. There is no way of determine what the total cost of replacing a heart will be and there can be no guarantee of success. Comparing healthcare to auto repair is an apples and oranges comparison.

They can't guarantee success, but they can determine the cost of each procedure. Furthermore, some price competition would bring the price down.

Yes, they can determine the cost of procedures but only procedures that they know will be require. Furthermore, once you are committed to the surgery and a hospital, you have practically no control what procedure will be used. For really expensive and complex medical treatments such as a heart transplant, you may have a half dozen doctors all proscribing different procedures and medications within their specialty.

My son in law died last year after three operations and two weeks in intensive care. He had at least 200 billable procedures and the total cost was about $370,000. You may be able to cost shop a yearly physical or the kids vaccinations but for really big healthcare cost, it's not possible because it's too complex and there are too many unknowns.

If the cost of every medical procedure code for ever medical provider were published, it would make little difference. Most people would still simply follow their doctors advice.

Heart attacks are a special case. They are emergencies. However, many procedures are known about well in advance of being performed. My brother just had a knee replacement operation. He had years to shop around for that. The same goes for cancer treatment, and that is really expensive. In fact there is plenty of time to shop around in the case of most procedures and treatments.

I agree, one can certainly determine the approximate cost of a knee replacement providing there are no complications but not without the help a specialist. There are at least 4 different types of knee replacement and there are several approaches. I have never had knee surgery but I've had a number of other surgeries and have never had a surgeon that was reluctant to discuss costs. However, hospital costs are a different matter. No hospital can tell you how much it will cost to care for a patient because those costs depend on the progress of the patient.

 

[Slyhunter]

Tort reform (saves $250 billion a year) Dems shot it down.

Sell health insurance across State Lines (saves consumers $100 billion a year (Dems shot it down)

Tax free health savings accounts (Dems shot it down).

You actually get to keep your health plan and doctor (Obama and Dems lied....killed it).

The insurance across state lines is something.

Tort reform is dumb.
HSAs are a joke
Plans that met the basic ACA

Like 60 year old men forced to buy well baby coverage and mammogram coverage? The public hates Obummblercare for a reason. It sucks.

I'm sure everyone with pre existing conditions hate it most.

You typed that in one sentence. That was all that was needed and I doubt many would have opposed it. We didn't need the other multitude of pages to give people with preexisting conditions access.

How do you propose to cover those with preexisting conditions?

Bullets are cheap.

 

[hadit]

i really like the full deduction part. It frees people to make their own choice.

That's the kiss of death. People making their own choices is not the goal.

 

[Dana7360]

The insurance across state lines is something.

Tort reform is dumb.
HSAs are a joke
Plans that met the basic ACA

Like 60 year old men forced to buy well baby coverage and mammogram coverage? The public hates Obummblercare for a reason. It sucks.

I'm sure everyone with pre existing conditions hate it most.

You typed that in one sentence. That was all that was needed and I doubt many would have opposed it. We didn't need the other multitude of pages to give people with preexisting conditions access.

How do you propose to cover those with preexisting conditions?

That is a problem which can only be answered with cost sharing. Kinda like car insurance. Except for one thing, if you don't have the money you don't insure a BMW. But with healthcare, there really isn't a "Hugo" option.

Covering those with a preexisting condition is the number one reason that healthcare insurers are getting out of Obamacare. It is kinda like two people go into McDonalds hungry. One orders 2 cheeseburgers, the other orders 20 cheeseburgers. They then both pay the same. How is the cost for the 22 burgers divided?

No it's not like that at all.

I'm one of millions of Americans who paid premiums, co-payments and deductibles all my adult life. I've never missed a payment and I've never gone without insurance.

I've been paying into insurance all my adult life. That's tens of thousands of dollars at least since it's been nearly 30 years.

The ONLY reason I'm losing my insurance is because I'm getting divorced. My insurance was with my soon to be ex-husband's policy through his work. I can stay on it for 3 years after the divorce but after that, I'm on my own.

I was diagnosed with a very deadly form of breast cancer 5 years ago. Two hormones my body naturally produces are it's food to grow. So without very costly medication to block those hormones, it will return and kill me. As it did to 4 of my relatives in the past, even though they had complete mastectomies.

Obamacare removes the pre existing conditions for insurance. If the pre existing clause returns I will never be able to get insurance again. I won't be able to get any health care until I'm 65 and medicare kicks in.

I have the money to pay for insurance. I want to buy insurance. The problem is NO ONE WILL SELL IT TO ME if the pre existing condition clause returns.

I looked one of my worst fears dead on and won. I made it to the 5 year cure mark in January. But because I was strong, because I fought and because I won, insurance companies will never sell me insurance if the pre existing condition clause returns.

So you're saying that I, a person who paid into the system all her life, should be denied the right to live just because I get divorced?

Do you see how wrong and selfish that is?

Can you afford the cost of a mammogram without insurance to help? Can you pay for the cost of cancer medications without insurance to help? Can you keep your home, your way of life and security if you are diagnosed with a very deadly disease and no insurance to help with the costs?

No you can't. So you have to make the choice between living or being financially destroyed.

Do you honestly believe it's fair to those of us who through no fault of our own lost our insurance to tell us just because you beat a very deadly disease you can no longer have health care?

Because that's what you're doing by trying to justify bringing back that pre existing condition clause.

 

[Asclepias]

Like 60 year old men forced to buy well baby coverage and mammogram coverage? The public hates Obummblercare for a reason. It sucks.

I'm sure everyone with pre existing conditions hate it most.

You typed that in one sentence. That was all that was needed and I doubt many would have opposed it. We didn't need the other multitude of pages to give people with preexisting conditions access.

How do you propose to cover those with preexisting conditions?

That is a problem which can only be answered with cost sharing. Kinda like car insurance. Except for one thing, if you don't have the money you don't insure a BMW. But with healthcare, there really isn't a "Hugo" option.

Covering those with a preexisting condition is the number one reason that healthcare insurers are getting out of Obamacare. It is kinda like two people go into McDonalds hungry. One orders 2 cheeseburgers, the other orders 20 cheeseburgers. They then both pay the same. How is the cost for the 22 burgers divided?

No it's not like that at all.

I'm one of millions of Americans who paid premiums, co-payments and deductibles all my adult life. I've never missed a payment and I've never gone without insurance.

I've been paying into insurance all my adult life. That's tens of thousands of dollars at least since it's been nearly 30 years.

The ONLY reason I'm losing my insurance is because I'm getting divorced. My insurance was with my soon to be ex-husband's policy through his work. I can stay on it for 3 years after the divorce but after that, I'm on my own.

I was diagnosed with a very deadly form of breast cancer 5 years ago. Two hormones my body naturally produces are it's food to grow. So without very costly medication to block those hormones, it will return and kill me. As it did to 4 of my relatives in the past, even though they had complete mastectomies.

Obamacare removes the pre existing conditions for insurance. If the pre existing clause returns I will never be able to get insurance again. I won't be able to get any health care until I'm 65 and medicare kicks in.

I have the money to pay for insurance. I want to buy insurance. The problem is NO ONE WILL SELL IT TO ME if the pre existing condition clause returns.

I looked one of my worst fears dead on and won. I made it to the 5 year cure mark in January. But because I was strong, because I fought and because I won, insurance companies will never sell me insurance if the pre existing condition clause returns.

So you're saying that I, a person who paid into the system all her life, should be denied the right to live just because I get divorced?

Do you see how wrong and selfish that is?

Can you afford the cost of a mammogram without insurance to help? Can you pay for the cost of cancer medications without insurance to help? Can you keep your home, your way of life and security if you are diagnosed with a very deadly disease and no insurance to help with the costs?

No you can't. So you have to make the choice between living being financially destroyed.

Do you honestly believe it's fair to those of us who through no fault of our own lost our insurance to tell us just because you beat a very deadly disease you can no longer have health care?

Because that's what you're doing by trying to justify bringing back that pre existing condition clause.

Bravo young lady.

 

[Freewill]

That is a problem which can only be answered with cost sharing. Kinda like car insurance. Except for one thing, if you don't have the money you don't insure a BMW. But with healthcare, there really isn't a "Hugo" option.

Covering those with a preexisting condition is the number one reason that healthcare insurers are getting out of Obamacare. It is kinda like two people go into McDonalds hungry. One orders 2 cheeseburgers, the other orders 20 cheeseburgers. They then both pay the same. How is the cost for the 22 burgers divided?

In terms of needing healthcare....would you rather be the 2 cheeseburger guy or the 20 cheeseburger guy?

Needing healthcare is not a choice

We are discussing healthcare insurance and cost.

Do you believe someone battling cancer should have to pay ten times the premium of a healthy person, just because they need to eat more cheeseburgers?

I guess fair is that both pay for 11 cheeseburgers? Or that the one buying 2 pays for 22? yeah I know, nothing is fair in life.

Yes paying for 11 cheeseburgers and not needing them is fair
Having cancer is not fair

No, the analogy is getting 2 but paying for 11.

 

[Freewill]

Like 60 year old men forced to buy well baby coverage and mammogram coverage? The public hates Obummblercare for a reason. It sucks.

I'm sure everyone with pre existing conditions hate it most.

You typed that in one sentence. That was all that was needed and I doubt many would have opposed it. We didn't need the other multitude of pages to give people with preexisting conditions access.

How do you propose to cover those with preexisting conditions?

That is a problem which can only be answered with cost sharing. Kinda like car insurance. Except for one thing, if you don't have the money you don't insure a BMW. But with healthcare, there really isn't a "Hugo" option.

Covering those with a preexisting condition is the number one reason that healthcare insurers are getting out of Obamacare. It is kinda like two people go into McDonalds hungry. One orders 2 cheeseburgers, the other orders 20 cheeseburgers. They then both pay the same. How is the cost for the 22 burgers divided?

No it's not like that at all.

I'm one of millions of Americans who paid premiums, co-payments and deductibles all my adult life. I've never missed a payment and I've never gone without insurance.

I've been paying into insurance all my adult life. That's tens of thousands of dollars at least since it's been nearly 30 years.

The ONLY reason I'm losing my insurance is because I'm getting divorced. My insurance was with my soon to be ex-husband's policy through his work. I can stay on it for 3 years after the divorce but after that, I'm on my own.

I was diagnosed with a very deadly form of breast cancer 5 years ago. Two hormones my body naturally produces are it's food to grow. So without very costly medication to block those hormones, it will return and kill me. As it did to 4 of my relatives in the past, even though they had complete mastectomies.

Obamacare removes the pre existing conditions for insurance. If the pre existing clause returns I will never be able to get insurance again. I won't be able to get any health care until I'm 65 and medicare kicks in.

I have the money to pay for insurance. I want to buy insurance. The problem is NO ONE WILL SELL IT TO ME if the pre existing condition clause returns.

I looked one of my worst fears dead on and won. I made it to the 5 year cure mark in January. But because I was strong, because I fought and because I won, insurance companies will never sell me insurance if the pre existing condition clause returns.

So you're saying that I, a person who paid into the system all her life, should be denied the right to live just because I get divorced?

Do you see how wrong and selfish that is?

Can you afford the cost of a mammogram without insurance to help? Can you pay for the cost of cancer medications without insurance to help? Can you keep your home, your way of life and security if you are diagnosed with a very deadly disease and no insurance to help with the costs?

No you can't. So you have to make the choice between living or being financially destroyed.

Do you honestly believe it's fair to those of us who through no fault of our own lost our insurance to tell us just because you beat a very deadly disease you can no longer have health care?

Because that's what you're doing by trying to justify bringing back that pre existing condition clause.

What the hell do you mean "it is not like that at all?" Firstly I am glad you won your battle.

But let's say you were one of the people in my scenario. You are the one taking 20 hamburgers. I am the one taking two. If split completely down the middle you pay for 11 and I pay for 11. Except you get 18 more hamburgers.

Now don't take this wrongly, I am glad you got the help you needed but it sounds to me you didn't get it on Obamacare. You like most people were on employer-based healthcare insurance, not Obamacare. Let me tell you, there is a big difference. And I don't know of anyone refused coverage on an employer based plan. What the insurance companies will do is raise the rates or drop the group from coverage if there are too many claims.

So my example is like Obamacare. The only way for the cost to be contained is for people to pay for hamburgers that they never received. So all that has to happen is to get 9 people to "kick in" and pay for hamburgers they never receive. Thus everyone would pay for 2. Which is really good for the one that got 20 but not so much for everyone else.

 

[rightwinger]

In terms of needing healthcare....would you rather be the 2 cheeseburger guy or the 20 cheeseburger guy?

Needing healthcare is not a choice

We are discussing healthcare insurance and cost.

Do you believe someone battling cancer should have to pay ten times the premium of a healthy person, just because they need to eat more cheeseburgers?

I guess fair is that both pay for 11 cheeseburgers? Or that the one buying 2 pays for 22? yeah I know, nothing is fair in life.

Yes paying for 11 cheeseburgers and not needing them is fair
Having cancer is not fair

No, the analogy is getting 2 but paying for 11.

Seems fair

For the two cheeseburgers you get, you also will be covered if you ever need 11.....that is how insurance works

 

[bripat9643]

We are discussing healthcare insurance and cost.

Do you believe someone battling cancer should have to pay ten times the premium of a healthy person, just because they need to eat more cheeseburgers?

I guess fair is that both pay for 11 cheeseburgers? Or that the one buying 2 pays for 22? yeah I know, nothing is fair in life.

Yes paying for 11 cheeseburgers and not needing them is fair
Having cancer is not fair

No, the analogy is getting 2 but paying for 11.

Seems fair

For the two cheeseburgers you get, you also will be covered if you ever need 11.....that is how insurance works

The 11 cheeseburgers includes sex change surgery, drug addiction treatment and maternity care. I will never need those. Why should I pay for them?

 

[HenryBHough]

Like so much Trump offers this health care concept is DIFFERENT. It may not work well but that's "may not" and it deserves a shot. After all, Obamacare proved itself. True, it proved itself a failure, but it was allowed to prove that.....

 

[koshergrl]

What I really like is the emphasis on expanded Health Savings Accounts, and the shift in tax deductibility to individuals. Another excellent proposal is price transparency.

Congress must act. Our elected representatives in the House and Senate must:

1. Completely repeal Obamacare. Our elected representatives must eliminate the individual mandate. No person should be required to buy insurance unless he or she wants to.

2. Modify existing law that inhibits the sale of health insurance across state lines. As long as the plan purchased complies with state requirements, any vendor ought to be able to offer insurance in any state. By allowing full competition in this market, insurance costs will go down and consumer satisfaction will go up.

3. Allow individuals to fully deduct health insurance premium payments from their tax returns under the current tax system. Businesses are allowed to take these deductions so why wouldn’t Congress allow individuals the same exemptions? As we allow the free market to provide insurance coverage opportunities to companies and individuals, we must also make sure that no one slips through the cracks simply because they cannot afford insurance. We must review basic options for Medicaid and work with states to ensure that those who want healthcare coverage can have it.

4. Allow individuals to use Health Savings Accounts (HSAs). Contributions into HSAs should be tax-free and should be allowed to accumulate. These accounts would become part of the estate of the individual and could be passed on to heirs without fear of any death penalty. These plans should be particularly attractive to young people who are healthy and can afford high-deductible insurance plans. These funds can be used by any member of a family without penalty. The flexibility and security provided by HSAs will be of great benefit to all who participate.

5. Require price transparency from all healthcare providers, especially doctors and healthcare organizations like clinics and hospitals. Individuals should be able to shop to find the best prices for procedures, exams or any other medical-related procedure.

6. Block-grant Medicaid to the states. Nearly every state already offers benefits beyond what is required in the current Medicaid structure. The state governments know their people best and can manage the administration of Medicaid far better without federal overhead. States will have the incentives to seek out and eliminate fraud, waste and abuse to preserve our precious resources.

7. Remove barriers to entry into free markets for drug providers that offer safe, reliable and cheaper products. Congress will need the courage to step away from the special interests and do what is right for America. Though the pharmaceutical industry is in the private sector, drug companies provide a public service. Allowing consumers access to imported, safe and dependable drugs from overseas will bring more options to consumers.

Full Health Care reform plan can be read here >>> Healthcare Reform

So my employer can cut my health benefit and keep the money. Sweet. That's more of that looking out for the middle class by cutting the 1%'s taxes! What a guy!

The middle class wants to have the option of purchasing their own insurance or not purchasing their own insurance, thank you.

 

[rightwinger]

What I really like is the emphasis on expanded Health Savings Accounts, and the shift in tax deductibility to individuals. Another excellent proposal is price transparency.

Congress must act. Our elected representatives in the House and Senate must:

1. Completely repeal Obamacare. Our elected representatives must eliminate the individual mandate. No person should be required to buy insurance unless he or she wants to.

2. Modify existing law that inhibits the sale of health insurance across state lines. As long as the plan purchased complies with state requirements, any vendor ought to be able to offer insurance in any state. By allowing full competition in this market, insurance costs will go down and consumer satisfaction will go up.

3. Allow individuals to fully deduct health insurance premium payments from their tax returns under the current tax system. Businesses are allowed to take these deductions so why wouldn’t Congress allow individuals the same exemptions? As we allow the free market to provide insurance coverage opportunities to companies and individuals, we must also make sure that no one slips through the cracks simply because they cannot afford insurance. We must review basic options for Medicaid and work with states to ensure that those who want healthcare coverage can have it.

4. Allow individuals to use Health Savings Accounts (HSAs). Contributions into HSAs should be tax-free and should be allowed to accumulate. These accounts would become part of the estate of the individual and could be passed on to heirs without fear of any death penalty. These plans should be particularly attractive to young people who are healthy and can afford high-deductible insurance plans. These funds can be used by any member of a family without penalty. The flexibility and security provided by HSAs will be of great benefit to all who participate.

5. Require price transparency from all healthcare providers, especially doctors and healthcare organizations like clinics and hospitals. Individuals should be able to shop to find the best prices for procedures, exams or any other medical-related procedure.

6. Block-grant Medicaid to the states. Nearly every state already offers benefits beyond what is required in the current Medicaid structure. The state governments know their people best and can manage the administration of Medicaid far better without federal overhead. States will have the incentives to seek out and eliminate fraud, waste and abuse to preserve our precious resources.

7. Remove barriers to entry into free markets for drug providers that offer safe, reliable and cheaper products. Congress will need the courage to step away from the special interests and do what is right for America. Though the pharmaceutical industry is in the private sector, drug companies provide a public service. Allowing consumers access to imported, safe and dependable drugs from overseas will bring more options to consumers.

Full Health Care reform plan can be read here >>> Healthcare Reform

So my employer can cut my health benefit and keep the money. Sweet. That's more of that looking out for the middle class by cutting the 1%'s taxes! What a guy!

The middle class wants to have the option of purchasing their own insurance or not purchasing their own insurance, thank you.

Did you have insurance before Obamacare or did you go without

 

[koshergrl]

Like so much Trump offers this health care concept is DIFFERENT. It may not work well but that's "may not" and it deserves a shot. After all, Obamacare proved itself. True, it proved itself a failure, but it was allowed to prove that.....

I didn't allow it. I knew it was a failure from its inception. I knew it wouldn't work and would turn into a criminally corrupt heap of shit before it "got a shot". Obamacare is an unconstitutional program that was dumped illegally upon the American people, against their wishes.

It didn't deserve a shot. Get rid of it. I don't care if nothing is put in to replace it. Just shitcan it.

 

[Dana7360]

I'm sure everyone with pre existing conditions hate it most.

You typed that in one sentence. That was all that was needed and I doubt many would have opposed it. We didn't need the other multitude of pages to give people with preexisting conditions access.

How do you propose to cover those with preexisting conditions?

That is a problem which can only be answered with cost sharing. Kinda like car insurance. Except for one thing, if you don't have the money you don't insure a BMW. But with healthcare, there really isn't a "Hugo" option.

Covering those with a preexisting condition is the number one reason that healthcare insurers are getting out of Obamacare. It is kinda like two people go into McDonalds hungry. One orders 2 cheeseburgers, the other orders 20 cheeseburgers. They then both pay the same. How is the cost for the 22 burgers divided?

No it's not like that at all.

I'm one of millions of Americans who paid premiums, co-payments and deductibles all my adult life. I've never missed a payment and I've never gone without insurance.

I've been paying into insurance all my adult life. That's tens of thousands of dollars at least since it's been nearly 30 years.

The ONLY reason I'm losing my insurance is because I'm getting divorced. My insurance was with my soon to be ex-husband's policy through his work. I can stay on it for 3 years after the divorce but after that, I'm on my own.

I was diagnosed with a very deadly form of breast cancer 5 years ago. Two hormones my body naturally produces are it's food to grow. So without very costly medication to block those hormones, it will return and kill me. As it did to 4 of my relatives in the past, even though they had complete mastectomies.

Obamacare removes the pre existing conditions for insurance. If the pre existing clause returns I will never be able to get insurance again. I won't be able to get any health care until I'm 65 and medicare kicks in.

I have the money to pay for insurance. I want to buy insurance. The problem is NO ONE WILL SELL IT TO ME if the pre existing condition clause returns.

I looked one of my worst fears dead on and won. I made it to the 5 year cure mark in January. But because I was strong, because I fought and because I won, insurance companies will never sell me insurance if the pre existing condition clause returns.

So you're saying that I, a person who paid into the system all her life, should be denied the right to live just because I get divorced?

Do you see how wrong and selfish that is?

Can you afford the cost of a mammogram without insurance to help? Can you pay for the cost of cancer medications without insurance to help? Can you keep your home, your way of life and security if you are diagnosed with a very deadly disease and no insurance to help with the costs?

No you can't. So you have to make the choice between living or being financially destroyed.

Do you honestly believe it's fair to those of us who through no fault of our own lost our insurance to tell us just because you beat a very deadly disease you can no longer have health care?

Because that's what you're doing by trying to justify bringing back that pre existing condition clause.

What the hell do you mean "it is not like that at all?" Firstly I am glad you won your battle.

But let's say you were one of the people in my scenario. You are the one taking 20 hamburgers. I am the one taking two. If split completely down the middle you pay for 11 and I pay for 11. Except you get 18 more hamburgers.

Now don't take this wrongly, I am glad you got the help you needed but it sounds to me you didn't get it on Obamacare. You like most people were on employer-based healthcare insurance, not Obamacare. Let me tell you, there is a big difference. And I don't know of anyone refused coverage on an employer based plan. What the insurance companies will do is raise the rates or drop the group from coverage if there are too many claims.

So my example is like Obamacare. The only way for the cost to be contained is for people to pay for hamburgers that they never received. So all that has to happen is to get 9 people to "kick in" and pay for hamburgers they never receive. Thus everyone would pay for 2. Which is really good for the one that got 20 but not so much for everyone else.

Yes I have private insurance through my husband's employer.

I will lose it 3 years after the divorce is final. So after 3 years I'm on my own.

I have to buy insurance privately myself not through an employer. And yes, employer insurance is denied. I used to work in the payroll department of a large home improvement corporation. The payroll department also handles insurance applications. I've had many of those applications be returned rejected by the insurance company. Every single one of them because of preexisting conditions. I had to let the employee know about it and it's not pretty. It was usually older employees who were hired to work in the stores. Older employees have a health history and record.

The ONLY way that I will be able to get insurance when the Cobra runs out is if that preexisting conditions clause doesn't exist.

I will have to go on the exchange to buy that insurance. My income is way too high to qualify for any subsidies at all. My only benefit of Obamacare is the preexisting conditions clause is removed. Other than that, no one subsidizes my insurance. I will pay the premiums which will be at least a thousand dollars a month and still won't come even close to the coverage I've had most of my adult life. I've already checked out plans on the exchange hoping that they would be cheaper than the 700 dollars a month it will cost to stay on my existing insurance for 3 years after the divorce is final. It was eye opening. I knew that employer insurance was very good but compared to what's on the exchange, it's much, much better.

You tell me that me paying 12 thousand dollars a year for insurance premiums on top of the deductibles and copayments is making you or anyone else pay my way while I take more than I actually need. The lowest deductible I found was 1000.00 a year. Right now, my deductible is 300 dollars a year. So if you add in that deductible with the premiums the LEAST I'll be paying is 13 thousand dollars a year for heath care. That's not counting the copays and other expenses.

It's not. I'm paying my own way. No one is paying one penny for me. As I have all of my life.

So try to stick with facts before you casually say that I should die just because I got divorced and beat cancer.

No matter if I had not paid into the system since the 1980s, no matter if I didn't have the income to pay and needed help, it's LIFE. Not some theoretical game. It's LIFE. No one should ever be denied health care simply because they were sick sometime in their life and lost their insurance because they got divorced. No one should ever be denied proper health care for any reason.

We're all in this together. I paid for decades when I never saw a doctor beyond yearly physicals. That money was used by the insurance company to pay other people's bills. I've paid income, social security and medicare taxes since 1976. I still have not taken one dime beyond a tax refund check from our government in my life. I don't whine about it nor do I believe I have a right to make someone die because I believe that I have the right to deny someone health care simply because it might cost me something. Oh by the way, I pay federal income taxes just like everyone else. I've been subsidizing Obamacare all along. I have no problem with it.

That's the difference here.

I have no problem paying for someone else to have proper health care.

You do.

 

[koshergrl]

You typed that in one sentence. That was all that was needed and I doubt many would have opposed it. We didn't need the other multitude of pages to give people with preexisting conditions access.

How do you propose to cover those with preexisting conditions?

That is a problem which can only be answered with cost sharing. Kinda like car insurance. Except for one thing, if you don't have the money you don't insure a BMW. But with healthcare, there really isn't a "Hugo" option.

Covering those with a preexisting condition is the number one reason that healthcare insurers are getting out of Obamacare. It is kinda like two people go into McDonalds hungry. One orders 2 cheeseburgers, the other orders 20 cheeseburgers. They then both pay the same. How is the cost for the 22 burgers divided?

No it's not like that at all.

I'm one of millions of Americans who paid premiums, co-payments and deductibles all my adult life. I've never missed a payment and I've never gone without insurance.

I've been paying into insurance all my adult life. That's tens of thousands of dollars at least since it's been nearly 30 years.

The ONLY reason I'm losing my insurance is because I'm getting divorced. My insurance was with my soon to be ex-husband's policy through his work. I can stay on it for 3 years after the divorce but after that, I'm on my own.

I was diagnosed with a very deadly form of breast cancer 5 years ago. Two hormones my body naturally produces are it's food to grow. So without very costly medication to block those hormones, it will return and kill me. As it did to 4 of my relatives in the past, even though they had complete mastectomies.

Obamacare removes the pre existing conditions for insurance. If the pre existing clause returns I will never be able to get insurance again. I won't be able to get any health care until I'm 65 and medicare kicks in.

I have the money to pay for insurance. I want to buy insurance. The problem is NO ONE WILL SELL IT TO ME if the pre existing condition clause returns.

I looked one of my worst fears dead on and won. I made it to the 5 year cure mark in January. But because I was strong, because I fought and because I won, insurance companies will never sell me insurance if the pre existing condition clause returns.

So you're saying that I, a person who paid into the system all her life, should be denied the right to live just because I get divorced?

Do you see how wrong and selfish that is?

Can you afford the cost of a mammogram without insurance to help? Can you pay for the cost of cancer medications without insurance to help? Can you keep your home, your way of life and security if you are diagnosed with a very deadly disease and no insurance to help with the costs?

No you can't. So you have to make the choice between living or being financially destroyed.

Do you honestly believe it's fair to those of us who through no fault of our own lost our insurance to tell us just because you beat a very deadly disease you can no longer have health care?

Because that's what you're doing by trying to justify bringing back that pre existing condition clause.

What the hell do you mean "it is not like that at all?" Firstly I am glad you won your battle.

But let's say you were one of the people in my scenario. You are the one taking 20 hamburgers. I am the one taking two. If split completely down the middle you pay for 11 and I pay for 11. Except you get 18 more hamburgers.

Now don't take this wrongly, I am glad you got the help you needed but it sounds to me you didn't get it on Obamacare. You like most people were on employer-based healthcare insurance, not Obamacare. Let me tell you, there is a big difference. And I don't know of anyone refused coverage on an employer based plan. What the insurance companies will do is raise the rates or drop the group from coverage if there are too many claims.

So my example is like Obamacare. The only way for the cost to be contained is for people to pay for hamburgers that they never received. So all that has to happen is to get 9 people to "kick in" and pay for hamburgers they never receive. Thus everyone would pay for 2. Which is really good for the one that got 20 but not so much for everyone else.

Yes I have private insurance through my husband's employer.

I will lose it 3 years after the divorce is final. So after 3 years I'm on my own.

I have to buy insurance privately myself not through an employer. And yes, employer insurance is denied. I used to work in the payroll department of a large home improvement corporation. The payroll department also handles insurance applications. I've had many of those applications be returned rejected by the insurance company. Every single one of them because of preexisting conditions. I had to let the employee know about it and it's not pretty. It was usually older employees who were hired to work in the stores. Older employees have a health history and record.

The ONLY way that I will be able to get insurance when the Cobra runs out is if that preexisting conditions clause doesn't exist.

I will have to go on the exchange to buy that insurance. My income is way too high to qualify for any subsidies at all. My only benefit of Obamacare is the preexisting conditions clause is removed. Other than that, no one subsidizes my insurance. I will pay the premiums which will be at least a thousand dollars a month and still won't come even close to the coverage I've had most of my adult life. I've already checked out plans on the exchange hoping that they would be cheaper than the 700 dollars a month it will cost to stay on my existing insurance for 3 years after the divorce is final. It was eye opening. I knew that employer insurance was very good but compared to what's on the exchange, it's much, much better.

You tell me that me paying 12 thousand dollars a year for insurance premiums on top of the deductibles and copayments is making you or anyone else pay my way while I take more than I actually need. The lowest deductible I found was 1000.00 a year. Right now, my deductible is 300 dollars a year. So if you add in that deductible with the premiums the LEAST I'll be paying is 24 thousand dollars a year for heath care. That's not counting the copays and other expenses.

It's not. I'm paying my own way. No one is paying one penny for me. As I have all of my life.

So try to stick with facts before you casually say that I should die just because I got divorced and beat cancer.

No matter if I had not paid into the system since the 1980s, no matter if I didn't have the income to pay and needed help, it's LIFE. Not some theoretical game. It's LIFE. No one should ever be denied health care simply because they were sick sometime in their life and lost their insurance because they got divorced. No one should ever be denied proper health care for any reason.

We're all in this together. I paid for decades when I never saw a doctor beyond yearly physicals. That money was used by the insurance company to pay other people's bills. I've paid income, social security and medicare taxes since 1976. I still have not taken one dime beyond a tax refund check from our government in my life. I don't whine about it nor do I believe I have a right to make someone die because I believe that I have the right to deny someone health care simply because it might cost me something. Oh by the way, I pay federal income taxes just like everyone else. I've been subsidizing Obamacare all along. I have no problem with it.

That's the difference here.

I have no problem paying for someone else to have proper health care.

You do.

Yeah, once again..someone whose income is "way too high" to qualify for subsidies, whining about having to pay for her own medical.

I hate entitlement creeps.

 

[Flopper]

i really like the full deduction part. It frees people to make their own choice.

That's the kiss of death. People making their own choices is not the goal.

Insurance premiums are deductible now, however the fact that you can only deduct that part of healthcare expenses (including health insurance premiums) which exceeds 10% of your income makes the deduction worthless for most people in higher income tax brackets. Most families with income less than $50,000 don't need the deduction because they are either not paying any taxes, on Medicaid or receiving some kind of healthcare subsidy.

The problem is making premiums fully deductible would decrease tax revenue between 50 and 100 billion dollars. Unless congress would find offsetting spending cuts which is rare, making insurance premiums fully deductible would add significantly to the deficit. However, I doubt Trump is concerned about the deficit.

 

[Flopper]

You typed that in one sentence. That was all that was needed and I doubt many would have opposed it. We didn't need the other multitude of pages to give people with preexisting conditions access.

How do you propose to cover those with preexisting conditions?

That is a problem which can only be answered with cost sharing. Kinda like car insurance. Except for one thing, if you don't have the money you don't insure a BMW. But with healthcare, there really isn't a "Hugo" option.

Covering those with a preexisting condition is the number one reason that healthcare insurers are getting out of Obamacare. It is kinda like two people go into McDonalds hungry. One orders 2 cheeseburgers, the other orders 20 cheeseburgers. They then both pay the same. How is the cost for the 22 burgers divided?

No it's not like that at all.

I'm one of millions of Americans who paid premiums, co-payments and deductibles all my adult life. I've never missed a payment and I've never gone without insurance.

I've been paying into insurance all my adult life. That's tens of thousands of dollars at least since it's been nearly 30 years.

The ONLY reason I'm losing my insurance is because I'm getting divorced. My insurance was with my soon to be ex-husband's policy through his work. I can stay on it for 3 years after the divorce but after that, I'm on my own.

I was diagnosed with a very deadly form of breast cancer 5 years ago. Two hormones my body naturally produces are it's food to grow. So without very costly medication to block those hormones, it will return and kill me. As it did to 4 of my relatives in the past, even though they had complete mastectomies.

Obamacare removes the pre existing conditions for insurance. If the pre existing clause returns I will never be able to get insurance again. I won't be able to get any health care until I'm 65 and medicare kicks in.

I have the money to pay for insurance. I want to buy insurance. The problem is NO ONE WILL SELL IT TO ME if the pre existing condition clause returns.

I looked one of my worst fears dead on and won. I made it to the 5 year cure mark in January. But because I was strong, because I fought and because I won, insurance companies will never sell me insurance if the pre existing condition clause returns.

So you're saying that I, a person who paid into the system all her life, should be denied the right to live just because I get divorced?

Do you see how wrong and selfish that is?

Can you afford the cost of a mammogram without insurance to help? Can you pay for the cost of cancer medications without insurance to help? Can you keep your home, your way of life and security if you are diagnosed with a very deadly disease and no insurance to help with the costs?

No you can't. So you have to make the choice between living or being financially destroyed.

Do you honestly believe it's fair to those of us who through no fault of our own lost our insurance to tell us just because you beat a very deadly disease you can no longer have health care?

Because that's what you're doing by trying to justify bringing back that pre existing condition clause.

What the hell do you mean "it is not like that at all?" Firstly I am glad you won your battle.

But let's say you were one of the people in my scenario. You are the one taking 20 hamburgers. I am the one taking two. If split completely down the middle you pay for 11 and I pay for 11. Except you get 18 more hamburgers.

Now don't take this wrongly, I am glad you got the help you needed but it sounds to me you didn't get it on Obamacare. You like most people were on employer-based healthcare insurance, not Obamacare. Let me tell you, there is a big difference. And I don't know of anyone refused coverage on an employer based plan. What the insurance companies will do is raise the rates or drop the group from coverage if there are too many claims.

So my example is like Obamacare. The only way for the cost to be contained is for people to pay for hamburgers that they never received. So all that has to happen is to get 9 people to "kick in" and pay for hamburgers they never receive. Thus everyone would pay for 2. Which is really good for the one that got 20 but not so much for everyone else.

Yes I have private insurance through my husband's employer.

I will lose it 3 years after the divorce is final. So after 3 years I'm on my own.

I have to buy insurance privately myself not through an employer. And yes, employer insurance is denied. I used to work in the payroll department of a large home improvement corporation. The payroll department also handles insurance applications. I've had many of those applications be returned rejected by the insurance company. Every single one of them because of preexisting conditions. I had to let the employee know about it and it's not pretty. It was usually older employees who were hired to work in the stores. Older employees have a health history and record.

The ONLY way that I will be able to get insurance when the Cobra runs out is if that preexisting conditions clause doesn't exist.

I will have to go on the exchange to buy that insurance. My income is way too high to qualify for any subsidies at all. My only benefit of Obamacare is the preexisting conditions clause is removed. Other than that, no one subsidizes my insurance. I will pay the premiums which will be at least a thousand dollars a month and still won't come even close to the coverage I've had most of my adult life. I've already checked out plans on the exchange hoping that they would be cheaper than the 700 dollars a month it will cost to stay on my existing insurance for 3 years after the divorce is final. It was eye opening. I knew that employer insurance was very good but compared to what's on the exchange, it's much, much better.

You tell me that me paying 12 thousand dollars a year for insurance premiums on top of the deductibles and copayments is making you or anyone else pay my way while I take more than I actually need. The lowest deductible I found was 1000.00 a year. Right now, my deductible is 300 dollars a year. So if you add in that deductible with the premiums the LEAST I'll be paying is 13 thousand dollars a year for heath care. That's not counting the copays and other expenses.

It's not. I'm paying my own way. No one is paying one penny for me. As I have all of my life.

So try to stick with facts before you casually say that I should die just because I got divorced and beat cancer.

No matter if I had not paid into the system since the 1980s, no matter if I didn't have the income to pay and needed help, it's LIFE. Not some theoretical game. It's LIFE. No one should ever be denied health care simply because they were sick sometime in their life and lost their insurance because they got divorced. No one should ever be denied proper health care for any reason.

We're all in this together. I paid for decades when I never saw a doctor beyond yearly physicals. That money was used by the insurance company to pay other people's bills. I've paid income, social security and medicare taxes since 1976. I still have not taken one dime beyond a tax refund check from our government in my life. I don't whine about it nor do I believe I have a right to make someone die because I believe that I have the right to deny someone health care simply because it might cost me something. Oh by the way, I pay federal income taxes just like everyone else. I've been subsidizing Obamacare all along. I have no problem with it.

That's the difference here.

I have no problem paying for someone else to have proper health care.

You do.

Your situation was not uncommon before Obamacare. Pre-existing insurance qualifications literally destroyed peoples lives and drove families into bankruptcy. What gets little attention is what people had to do to keep their insurance. People stayed in jobs and marriages they hated. People that wanted to retire early or start their own business were tied to jobs to stay insured. Employers kept older employees on the payroll even though they were a drag on the business because they knew they would not find a job with insurance.