Trump offers peace plan for Ukraine war

[Deadstick]

This footage was from Debeltseve when Ukrainian soldiers were defeated by the Militia not a Russian soldier in sight because they were not there.

 

[Kruska]

Not in 2014 they didn't that is what they lied about and are still lying ten years later, the only place Russia took control of before 2022 was Crimea to secure their naval base which the Coup trash would have handed to NATO and probably many pro Russians civilians massacred like they were in Odessa.

First off all - Russia had no right to occupy Crimea - it's sovereign Ukrainian territory. And Ukraine had made no attempts towards seizing or retracting the Status of Russia's naval base on Crimea. It wasn't blocked nor threatened. It's like blaming Cuba for being next, surrounding the USA's Guantanamo base on Cuba. Whilst the USA agitating Cuban citizens that work at the USN base (aka pro USA) - thus living in the vicinity and "inspiring" them to unilaterally declare the region around Guantanamo to be a separatist Republic.

Secondly your distortion of facts pertaining to Ukraine-Russia might convince the gullible and stupid, but not anyone who knows what FACTUALLY happened upon Poroschenko having taken over the power from Russia's puppet Yanukovych, who on Feb. 22nd 2014 had fled, and officially resurfaced on 27th in Russia. Whilst Russia had started to occupy Crimea simultaneously on 27th of Feb. 2024.

It was Russian-Ukrainian separatists who had unilaterally declared independent Republics. Supported and instigated by Putin.
That Ukraine did not recognize this unilateral declaration was in line with international law.

That Ukrainian "nationalism" became widespread during and upon the Maiden-revolution is correct - and this Ukrainian nationalism was in turn exploited by Putin via continuously spreading disinformation to Russian-Ukrainians.

Bottom line:
Ukrainian nationalism simply worked in favor of Putin's Czarist agenda - just as the present US nationalism works in favor of Putin and China's Xi - as well as to those Europeans who had opposed or been against US hegemony over Europe since 1945.

That the USA and Europe aka NATO, instigated and supported nationalist movements in Georgia and Ukraine is also understood.

FYI - I was and still am affiliated with certain German companies that trained and setup urban control & combat centers in Russia. Thus creating, and assisting towards forming the "new Russian military" and introducing the tactical requirements that enabled Putin to occupy Crimea.

 

[Kruska]

Nice tactic. Arguing about nonsense trying to distract me with your spin. Not biting.

What is Trump's plan?

As I had already mentioned in another thread:

Cheap OIL and thus hoping towards isolating China from it's main "ally in spirit"- connect the dots and you got the answer. And additionally in regards to being "able" to lower energy cost - aka living costs in the USA.

 

[Deadstick]

First off all - Russia had no right to occupy Crimea - it's sovereign Ukrainian territory. And Ukraine had made no attempts towards seizing or retracting the Status of Russia's naval base on Crimea. It wasn't blocked nor threatened. It's like blaming Cuba for being next, surrounding the USA's Guantanamo base on Cuba. Whilst the USA agitating Cuban citizens that work at the USN base (aka pro USA) - thus living in the vicinity and "inspiring" them to unilaterally declare the region around Guantanamo to be a separatist Republic.

Secondly your distortion of facts pertaining to Ukraine-Russia might convince the gullible and stupid, but not anyone who knows what FACTUALLY happened upon Poroschenko having taken over the power from Russia's puppet Yanukovych, who on Feb. 22nd 2014 had fled, and officially resurfaced on 27th in Russia. Whilst Russia had started to occupy Crimea simultaneously on 27th of Feb. 2024.

It was Russian-Ukrainian separatists who had unilaterally declared independent Republics. Supported and instigated by Putin.
That Ukraine did not recognize this unilateral declaration was in line with international law.

That Ukrainian "nationalism" became widespread during and upon the Maiden-revolution is correct - and this Ukrainian nationalism was in turn exploited by Putin via continuously spreading disinformation to Russian-Ukrainians.

Bottom line:
Ukrainian nationalism simply worked in favor of Putin's Czarist agenda - just as the present US nationalism works in favor of Putin and China's Xi - as well as to those Europeans who had opposed or been against US hegemony over Europe since 1945.

That the USA and Europe aka NATO, instigated and supported nationalist movements in Georgia and Ukraine is also understood.

FYI - I was and still am affiliated with certain German companies that trained and setup urban control & combat centers in Russia. Thus creating, and assisting towards forming the "new Russian military" and introducing the tactical requirements that enabled Putin to occupy Crimea.

Crimea naval base was one of the reasons for the War that the US pushed them into, Crimea was Russian far longer than it was Ukrainian after that idiot Kruschev gave it away it's very pro Russian same as Odessa, and those vids i posted show what happened Putin didn't even recognize the breakaway areas in Donbass for years, he was trying to get a settlement but Ukraine with their US backers thought they could have everything, they were wrong.

 

[Ringo]

First off all - Russia had no right to occupy Crimea

You don't know this of course, but the transfer of Crimea from Russia to Ukraine in USSR was presented as a gift from the Russian people to Ukraine in honor of the 300th anniversary in 1954 of Ukraine's annexation to Russia, which was done with the full consent and desire of the Ukrainians at the time.
Since in 2014 there was actually an anti-russian, fascist coup in Ukraine, the gift made to friends lost all significance. And Crimea, which was conquered by the Russian army during the wars with Turkey in the 18th century, with a functioning Russian naval base in Sevastopol, had every right to finally leave the country, which had become anti-Russian and fascist.
Besides, the majority of the population of Crimea voted for this event. You must love democratic elections, right?
Or do you, like European “democracies” today, consider only those elections democratic that suit you?

 

[Kruska]

Crimea naval base was one of the reasons for the War that the US pushed them into, Crimea was Russian far longer than it was Ukrainian after that idiot Kruschev gave it away it's very pro Russian same as Odessa, and those vids i posted show what happened Putin didn't even recognize the breakaway areas in Donbass for years, he was trying to get a settlement but Ukraine with their US backers thought they could have everything, they were wrong.

Yes - but Vodka Yeltsin had SIGNED it to Ukraine in 1990/1. Too bad for Russia - but doesn't change the international recognition of the sovereign nation Ukraine - retaining - thus based, onto the borders of the former Soviet Republic of Ukraine.

That this entire issue (dissolution of the Soviet Union) and especially the Russian Naval base on Crimea) would sooner or later come back to haunt NATO was understood - at least to me and many other military affiliated persons.

But if e.g. Putin gets his way with Ukraine - he could/would use the same approach to any other former Soviet Republic.!!

You know very well that the USA has been consistently involved in "undermining" these new nations that border Russia and China.

 

[Deadstick]

Yes - but Vodka Yeltsin had SIGNED it to Ukraine in 1990/1. Too bad for Russia - but doesn't change the international recognition of the sovereign nation Ukraine - retaining - thus based, onto the borders of the former Soviet Republic of Ukraine.

That this entire issue (dissolution of the Soviet Union) and especially the Russian Naval base on Crimea) would sooner or later come back to haunt NATO was understood - at least to me and many other military affiliated persons.

But if e.g. Putin gets his way with Ukraine - he could/would use the same approach to any other former Soviet Republic.!!

You know very well that the USA has been consistently involved in "undermining" these new nations that border Russia and China.

Ukraine is a unique case for Russia because of their history going back centuries why would any other former Soviet Republics come into it? unless they become aggressive?

 

[Deadstick]

You don't know this of course, but the transfer of Crimea from Russia to Ukraine in USSR was presented as a gift from the Russian people to Ukraine in honor of the 300th anniversary in 1954 of Ukraine's annexation to Russia, which was done with the full consent and desire of the Ukrainians at the time.
Since in 2014 there was actually an anti-russian, fascist coup in Ukraine, the gift made to friends lost all significance. And Crimea, which was conquered by the Russian army during the wars with Turkey in the 18th century, with a functioning Russian naval base in Sevastopol, had every right to finally leave the country, which had become anti-Russian and fascist.
Besides, the majority of the population of Crimea voted for this event. You must love democratic elections, right?
Or do you, like European “democracies” today, consider only those elections democratic that suit you?

You hit the nail on the head and the same point i have been making for years, all bets were off after the Coup.

 

[Kruska]

Ukraine is a unique case for Russia because of their history going back centuries why would any other former Soviet Republics come into it? unless they become aggressive?

The history of e.g. Belarus is no different from that of Ukraine/Russia - so if a "democratic" government takes over Minsk, then what?? The same issue (historical - territorial claims) applies to today's Finland as well.

So aside from that, how far does Putin want to reverse present day's Russia's history?

E.g. In 1868 the Khanate of Kokand was confined to the Ferghana Valley and in 1876 it was annexed. The Khanate of Khiva became a Russian protectorate in 1873. Thus by 1876 the entire territory comprising present-day Uzbekistan either had fallen under direct Russian rule or had become a protectorate of Russia. same goes for Georgia, Baltic States, etc. etc.

And it ALL doesn't change the Fact that Jelzin in 1990/1 signed and acquitted towards the independence of ALL these States.

If some nationalistic government should take over Germany - then what? simply ignore all treaties and claim back "German territory" that had been "German" for hundreds of years??

 

[Ringo]

If some nationalistic government should take over Germany - then what? simply ignore all treaties and claim back "German territory" that had been "German" for hundreds of years??

This is what happened in 1945, when Silesia and some other lands that had been part of Prussia and Germany for hundreds of years passed to Poland. You want to give it back to Germany?

 

[Kruska]

This is what happened in 1945, when Silesia and some other lands that had been part of Prussia and Germany for hundreds of years passed to Poland. You want to give it back to Germany?

Well if some nationalistic German government is headed and controlled by a Fritz Putin - they might right? and don't forget Alsace-Lorraine, had been German since 700 AD, damn French. Heck the Brit's might want to have back Aquitanian as well, and them Swedes might want to have RUS aka their Waranger territory back?? - hey that might just solve everything pertaining to Russia

For Russia to keep it's naval base on Crimea was a dumb idea from the start. And it wasn't Ukraine's fault nor idea.

 

[JWBooth]

First off all - Russia had no right to occupy Crimea - it's sovereign Ukrainian territory. And Ukraine had made no attempts towards seizing or retracting the Status of Russia's naval base on Crimea. It wasn't blocked nor threatened. It's like blaming Cuba for being next, surrounding the USA's Guantanamo base on Cuba. Whilst the USA agitating Cuban citizens that work at the USN base (aka pro USA) - thus living in the vicinity and "inspiring" them to unilaterally declare the region around Guantanamo to be a separatist Republic.

Secondly your distortion of facts pertaining to Ukraine-Russia might convince the gullible and stupid, but not anyone who knows what FACTUALLY happened upon Poroschenko having taken over the power from Russia's puppet Yanukovych, who on Feb. 22nd 2014 had fled, and officially resurfaced on 27th in Russia. Whilst Russia had started to occupy Crimea simultaneously on 27th of Feb. 2024.

It was Russian-Ukrainian separatists who had unilaterally declared independent Republics. Supported and instigated by Putin.
That Ukraine did not recognize this unilateral declaration was in line with international law.

That Ukrainian "nationalism" became widespread during and upon the Maiden-revolution is correct - and this Ukrainian nationalism was in turn exploited by Putin via continuously spreading disinformation to Russian-Ukrainians.

Bottom line:
Ukrainian nationalism simply worked in favor of Putin's Czarist agenda - just as the present US nationalism works in favor of Putin and China's Xi - as well as to those Europeans who had opposed or been against US hegemony over Europe since 1945.

That the USA and Europe aka NATO, instigated and supported nationalist movements in Georgia and Ukraine is also understood.

FYI - I was and still am affiliated with certain German companies that trained and setup urban control & combat centers in Russia. Thus creating, and assisting towards forming the "new Russian military" and introducing the tactical requirements that enabled Putin to occupy Crimea.

**** ‘em and feed them fish heads. The Ukes only had Crimea, Odessa and Donbas because Khrushchev needed their votes in the Politburo to succeed Stalin.

 

[Ringo]

For Russia to keep it's naval base on Crimea was a dumb idea from the start.

There are not many places on the Black Sea where it is convenient to position a military fleet. Sevastopol Bay was just such a place.

 

[Kruska]

There are not many places on the Black Sea where it is convenient to position a military fleet. Sevastopol Bay was just such a place.

Yes - but it wasn't a feasible solution (without a war, or illegally occupying entire Crimea - thus getting into a war) was it??

Russia had/would have had 35 years time (1990-2025) to set up a new naval base somewhere between Rostov and Sochi.
Which BTW would have been faa...aaar cheaper then this present war - not even to mention loosing all those lives.

So far this war cost Russia around US$ 2 Trillion+ (25% of Russia's GDP) (not even taking the infrastructural damage nor future resulting economic losses into account), and a modern huge adequate naval base to accommodate both the Black-sea and Baltic fleet would cost Russia today around US$6-8 billion - some 20 years ago it would have cost Russia less then US$2 billion.

 

[Ringo]

Yes - but it wasn't a feasible solution (without a war, or illegally occupying entire Crimea - thus getting into a war) was it??
Which BTW would have been faa...aaar cheaper

I'll tell you what would have been cheaper - put troops into Ukraine in the winter of 2014 and prevent post-Maidan events. It helped the Kazakhstani authorities in January of that year. And it would have been justified (not by Western bastards, of course) - it would have been helping the legally elected government of allied Ukraine to fight an armed rebellion.

 

[Kruska]

I'll tell you what would have been cheaper - put troops into Ukraine in the winter of 2014 and prevent post-Maidan events.

See that's the WHOLE problem - Ukraine's internal issues are not for Russia to interfere nor to decide upon.
Unless you believe that NATO should have interfered and send troops to Russia, to "solve" the August Coup 1991??

 

[Rambunctious]

What are those 3 conditions, I didn't see them anywhere in your link.

In the video...

 

[gipper]

Right now Trump isn't "fighting". Its still all talks and no actions.

Trump seeks peace and what does the D Party and corporate media do? They go full neocon in opposition. WTF!

 

[gipper]

WTF!

 

[gipper]

Nothing is more bipartisan than war. Uniparty rules.