P F Tinmore
Diamond Member
- Dec 6, 2009
- 79,776
- 4,414
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Even the UN has recognized how ridiculous you plan to confer citizenship on any Palestinian who wants it is. In UNGA resolution 194, which anti semites like you often falsely claim established an absolute right of return for the refugees, specified that only those who were willing to live in peace with Jews had that right. Israel will apply that same principle in determining which of the Palestinians who might live on the land to be annexed will be granted citizenship: hence the requirement to apply for citizenship. Those Palestinians who want to become Israeli citizens and who can show they are willing to live in peace with Jews and who will pledge allegiance to Israel will become citizens.Israel is annexing an area that contained a pre-existing population. It then moved it’s own people into the region and seems shocked at the hostility.lol Israel should not annex because the Arabs cannot give up their dreams of killing Jews?Then they should not annex.RE: Trump Deal - details, reactions and development on the ground
⁜→ Coyote, toomuchtime, et al,
You cannot negotiate away the provision for the protection of national security and crime prevention.
(COMMENT)
I have to agree that it would be a very difficult risk assessment for the Israelis to grant citizenship to the Arab Palestinians without a very detailed vetting → for the very reasons I cited in Posting #721 supra.
Most Respectfully,
R
Personally, I think it is time for hostilities to cease, mutual recognition to commence, and both sides to move towards some sort of political solution. I actually think annexing could be a good idea if done right, and done right would include:
Citizenship offered to those who want it and haven’t committed heinous crimes of terrorism (and there needs to be an open and transparent process). The reason I say this, is many Palestinians, specially children, are coerced into plea deals where they plead guilty in order to get home sooner. Perhaps there needs to be some sort of reconciliation program.
Investment in the Palestinian areas annexed (infrastructure etc.) to bring them in line with their a Jewish counterparts.
Without the first, you are unlikely to have the second...states don’t invest in non-citizens.
Permanent residency does not confer a complete set of rights, for example representation, the ability to travel freely for any length of time etc etc. For those who prefer that, fine. But for those that don’t, 50/50 chance at citizenship is not acceptable imo.
The other thing to consider is that citizenship makes that person invested in the state itself. They have skin in the game and belonging because they CHOSE it. That strengthens a state more than having a big population of “renters”.
Among the things I actually agree with in the plan are investment and some annexation. The status quo, where a portion of the population is held under the military justice system while the rest enjoy the full set of rights and protections (especially for minors) under civil law, is unsustainable and this plan does provide some good ideas.
Note: I am predicting your response will include some form of antisemites and Israel-hating combination of verbiage, so please try to put that in the first line so we move past it quickly.
Contrary to you bigoted lies about residency, while residents can't vote in national election, they can vote in local elections if they are living within the boundaries of an Israeli municipality. They have immediate access to all of Israel's very considerable social welfare services, including Israel's national health service which is far superior to what they currently have. They have the protection of Israel's labor laws which means Employers in Israel, including the newly annexed lands must pay them and provide the same benefits that Israeli citizens enjoy. This means they can seek employment anywhere in Israel without special permission.
While technically a resident can have his or her residency canceled, after annexation, the IDF will no longer have the authority to govern their lives and only the civilian government would be able to do it and the resident would have access to the whole Israeli court system to fight such a move, so it is highly unlikely to happen.
While to your hate warped mind, not conferring citizenship on the Palestinians in the annexed lands calls into question the legitimacy of Israel, the Arab residents in Jerusalem seem to be largely indifferent to citizenship or voting. Very few apply for citizenship, probably because their friends and families would see it as treasonous, and very few bother to vote in municipal elections despite the fact that their numbers are sufficient to determine the outcome.
Allegiance - is exactly what many are missing in these discussions.
Israel is demanded to grant citizenship,
and we see little mention of any obligations.
Pledge of allegiance, and criminal record are two components,
I would add Civil service :
Residency should be the starting point, 4-5 years framework on a road to citizenship.
- Ambulance, or various social work, this is very important both personal and national experience. If I'm not wrong basic requirement is 2.5 years.
- IDF / Border Police service - optional, a choice on both ends. This requires further profiling, while basic requirement is whole 3 years (or more if both parties choose so). I'm sure hundreds, if not thousands, are already involved and will be conscripted by default.
With voting in the regional committee, and social services of the state.
Pretty much the Zehut platform, watch from minute 2:00...
Indeed, Israel wants to complete its settler colonial project.