Trump Case:New York Executive Law 63(12) - empowers the attorney general to go to court and seize assets. what precedents are there?

[para bellum]

Yes. He was charged with fraud in the second degree. What the banks did or thought is not relevant. He falsified records. The bank going along with it doesn't change that fact.

Eh? Trump was not charged with fraud in any degree.

He wasn't even charged with the misdemeanors of falsification of business records, because that would have required a trial, and a conviction would have required proof of scienter (which was not shown in the case).

The banks made their own assessments. They estimated Trump's net worth at $2.4 Bn. They also said they routinely use 50% of the borrower's estimates.

The loan was a "full-recourse" loan, meaning it had Trump's personal guarantee. The lender was the investment bank division of Deutsche Bank.

The interest rate the judge used for comparison was based on a "non-recourse" (no guarantee) loan from the Commercial division. That was not an "apples-to-apples" comparison.

Trump exaggerated his net worth, but the banks made their decision based on his actual net worth, which matched other estimates like Forbes and Bloomberg- not an inflated value.

The low interest rate reflects the full-recourse type of note. Banks don't want to own property, especially something like a golf course. So the no-recourse loan has a high interest rate to protect them from having to dispose of a hard-to-sell property in the case of a default.

They were not at risk of that, because Trump had the money to cover the loans. The banks also said they weren't worried because they knew Trump would put a lot of his own capital in the project, so there was very little chance of the value going down.

 

[kyzr]

It absolutely does so matter. The character of the borrower matters a great deal.
It doesn’t matter what collateral you have, unless it’s stocks or bonds and you can just cash them in. I don’t want a lender who lies, cheats and steals from me. Period.
If you’re honest with me, I’ll work with to help you and your business succeed. I’ll give you a fair deal and we’ll both make money.
Lie to me and I won’t lend to you. Period. That’s why American banks stop lending to Donald Trump in the year 2000. He was lying. He was cheating and he was stealing from them. They were done with them.
Don’t pretend it didn’t happen, or it didn’t matter because he paid the loans back, or that the bankers didn’t care. Clearly they did care or they would’ve continue doing business with him.

Your post is exactly right.
The lender needs to evaluate the borrower, and the financial data, and if there is too much risk, the lender walks.
That's how its supposed to work.

 

[kyzr]

A borrower isn’t selling the lender anything. The borrower is asking the lender to enter into a long-term contract of mutual trust. No long-term relationship of mutual trust can happen when the person asking you to trust him, starts out by lying to you.

The borrower has many lenders to choose from. The lenders have many borrowers to choose from. The borrower is free to submit his financial data with a bias that favors his own finances. The lenders are supposed to be capable enough to separate the wheat from the chaff and tell the borrower what the deal is, "take it or leave it".
Saying that government hacks know real estate values is nonsense.

 

[Dragonlady]

The borrower has many lenders to choose from. The lenders have many borrowers to choose from. The borrower is free to submit his financial data with a bias that favors his own finances. The lenders are supposed to be capable enough to separate the wheat from the chaff and tell the borrower what the deal is, "take it or leave it".
Saying that government hacks know real estate values is nonsense.

Trump doesn't have "many lenders to choose from". Very few lenders will deal with Trump.

Financial statements don't have a "bias". They are cold hard numbers which are fact driven.

Lenders "separate the wheat from the chaff" based on whether the numbers on the paper, justify the loan requested. And based on the financial and business history of the borrower.

None of Trump’s businesses are profitable and few of his properties are profitable. The only business success Trump ever had was building Trump Tower, and it has long been rumoured that Fred pulled a LOT of strings behind the scenes to make that happen.

When Fred’s dementia got too far advanced, and he couldn’t bail Donnie out anymore, that’s when he started that’s when Donald started going bankrupt in Atlantic City, bragging about how much money he made going bankrupt.

Trump cheated his niece and nephew out of their father’s share of their grandfather’s estate.

You need to go back and look at Donald Trump’s business history going back to the early 1980s. You’re making a fool of yourself defending this crook.

 

[kyzr]

Trump doesn't have "many lenders to choose from". Very few lenders will deal with Trump.

Financial statements don't have a "bias". They are cold hard numbers which are fact driven.

Lenders "separate the wheat from the chaff" based on whether the numbers on the paper, justify the loan requested. And based on the financial and business history of the borrower.

None of Trump’s businesses are profitable and few of his properties are profitable. The only business success Trump ever had was building Trump Tower, and it has long been rumoured that Fred pulled a LOT of strings behind the scenes to make that happen.
When Fred’s dementia got too far advanced, and he couldn’t bail Donnie out anymore, that’s when he started that’s when Donald started going bankrupt in Atlantic City, bragging about how much money he made going bankrupt.

Trump cheated his niece and nephew out of their father’s share of their grandfather’s estate.

You need to go back and look at Donald Trump’s business history going back to the early 1980s. You’re making a fool of yourself defending this crook.

LOL!! See you just can't stop lying....
1. Trump does have many lenders to choose from. Prove he doesn't.
2. Prove financial statements don't have bias. I can use high or low numbers and still be reasonable.
3. Lenders do NOT use numbers on the paper, they do their own research, its called "due diligence", DUH.
4. You have no clue how profitable Trump's businesses are. Look at his tax return dumbass.
5. Trump's businesses made $millions every year, so they are profitable, and he paid taxes on them...LIAR

Six years of Trump's tax returns are now public | CNN Politics

Six years of former President Donald Trump's federal tax returns, long shrouded in secrecy, were released to the public on Friday by the House Ways and Means committee, the culmination of a battle over their disclosure that went to the Supreme Court.

www.cnn.com

Trump’s tax returns released by House committee show he paid little in taxes

The House Ways and Means Committee released six years of Trump's personal and business returns, ending years of legal wrangling and speculation.

www.nbcnews.com

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/30/politics/read-donald-trump-tax-returns/index.html

6. You're a fool when you don't understand that Trump is back on the Fortune 400...DUMBASS

Trump climbs back onto the Forbes 400 richest Americans list

The former president, who fell out of the rankings last year, has been helped by his Truth Social investment.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Dragonlady]

LOL!! See you just can't stop lying....
1. Trump does have many lenders to choose from. Prove he doesn't.
2. Prove financial statements don't have bias. I can use high or low numbers and still be reasonable.
3. Lenders do NOT use numbers on the paper, they do their own research, its called "due diligence", DUH.
4. You have no clue how profitable Trump's businesses are. Look at his tax return dumbass.
5. Trump's businesses made $millions every year, so they are profitable, and he paid taxes on them...LIAR

Six years of Trump's tax returns are now public | CNN Politics

Six years of former President Donald Trump's federal tax returns, long shrouded in secrecy, were released to the public on Friday by the House Ways and Means committee, the culmination of a battle over their disclosure that went to the Supreme Court.

www.cnn.com

Trump’s tax returns released by House committee show he paid little in taxes

The House Ways and Means Committee released six years of Trump's personal and business returns, ending years of legal wrangling and speculation.

www.nbcnews.com

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/30/politics/read-donald-trump-tax-returns/index.html

6. You're a fool when you don't understand that Trump is back on the Fortune 400...DUMBASS

Trump climbs back onto the Forbes 400 richest Americans list

The former president, who fell out of the rankings last year, has been helped by his Truth Social investment.

www.cbsnews.com

View attachment 923523

1. If Trump has many lenders to choose from, why can't he get a bond????

2. You can;t use "high or low numbers, in financial statements. You only use REAL numbenrs backed up by financial records. The reason Trump is guilty of fraud is because he did what YOU suggested.

3. Are you or have you ever been a lender????? We ONLY use the numbers we can prove. On the paper.

4. Yes I do know that Trump businesses are making no money.

BOY ARE YOU TRIGGERED.

 

[Catsnmeters]

1. Not "the courts", judge Engeron. Engeron said Mar-a-Lago is worth $18m. He's a garden variety hack. Along with Letitia who ran on "getting Trump". The political hackery won't last too much longer. The appeals court already cut the bond amount. The Letitia James case is toast.

The assessor said that. The judge was just repeating it.

I find it nearly impossible to live you haven't been told this before.

2. The forms were not fraudulent, the AG and judge are fraudulent. The forms had estimates of values. There is no exact answer, property values fluctuate. The banks made money, there was no victim. In "fraud" there needs to be a victim.

The forms were fraudulent.

Agreed they don't have to be exact, just reasonable, but 11k ft vs 33k ft and 2300 percent overvaluation is not reasonable.

3. The banks made money, Their risk managers did a good job.

Irrelevant.

 

[Catsnmeters]

Eh? Trump was not charged with fraud in any degree.

Trump was found liable for fraud for the 3rd time.

He wasn't even charged with the misdemeanors of falsification of business records, because that would have required a trial, and a conviction would have required proof of scienter (which was not shown in the case).

He was found liable for fraud...for the 3rd time.

The banks made their own assessments. They estimated Trump's net worth at $2.4 Bn. They also said they routinely use 50% of the borrower's estimates.

The banks didn't estimate his apt at 11k ft when it was actually 33k feet. Banks also didn't overvalue his apt by 2300 percent.

The loan was a "full-recourse" loan, meaning it had Trump's personal guarantee. The lender was the investment bank division of Deutsche Bank.

Trump's guarantee would have been worth squat if he declared bankruptcy.

The interest rate the judge used for comparison was based on a "non-recourse" (no guarantee) loan from the Commercial division. That was not an "apples-to-apples" comparison.

What does that have to do with Trump committing fraud by lying on forms?

Trump exaggerated his net worth, but the banks made their decision based on his actual net worth, which matched other estimates like Forbes and Bloomberg- not an inflated value.

Exaggerated is an understatement. He committed fraud.

The low interest rate reflects the full-recourse type of note. Banks don't want to own property, especially something like a golf course. So the no-recourse loan has a high interest rate to protect them from having to dispose of a hard-to-sell property in the case of a default.

The interest rate is irrelevant, Trump lied on his forms.

They were not at risk of that, because Trump had the money to cover the loans. The banks also said they weren't worried because they knew Trump would put a lot of his own capital in the project, so there was very little chance of the value going down.

You don't know this and it doesn't matter. Trump lied on the forms.

Can you link where you are getting this at? I am curious what outlet is feeding you this nonsense.

 

[kyzr]

1. If Trump has many lenders to choose from, why can't he get a bond????
2. You can't use "high or low numbers, in financial statements. You only use REAL numbers backed up by financial records. The reason Trump is guilty of fraud is because he did what YOU suggested.
3. Are you or have you ever been a lender????? We ONLY use the numbers we can prove. On the paper.
4. Yes I do know that Trump businesses are making no money.
BOY ARE YOU TRIGGERED.

1. A $500,000,000 bond is simply unavailable. Bernie Madoff who stole $12b only had to post a $10m bond. In Trump's case no one lost any money. The "Kangaroo Courts" just want to stop Trump presidency. The reduced bond ($175m) will be posted on time.

2. There are no REAL numbers in real estate dumbass. That's the issue. You'll see how this works out during the appeal process.

3. Banks have "risk managers" who evaluate property values and other financial data before approving a loan. They do NOT just use the numbers provided on paper.

4. LIAR. I showed you Trump's tax returns.

 

[kyzr]

The assessor said that. The judge was just repeating it.
I find it nearly impossible to live you haven't been told this before.
The forms were fraudulent.
Agreed they don't have to be exact, just reasonable, but 11k ft vs 33k ft and 2300 percent overvaluation is not reasonable.
Irrelevant.

1. The "assessed value" has NOTHING to do with the actual property value.
2. 2300% above the "assessed value" is NOT fraudulent, its the current property value, which the "Kangaroo Court" got wrong.
3. "Fraud" requires a victim. There was no victim, the banks made money, there were no bank complaints, duh.

 

[Catsnmeters]

1. The "assessed value" has NOTHING to do with the actual property value.

Yes it does. Its not the same but their typically is a correlation.

2. 2300% above the "assessed value" is NOT fraudulent, its the current property value, which the "Kangaroo Court" got wrong.

It is not the property value.

What are you basing this on? Are you going to pretend you don't know that Mar Lago is social club and subject to restrictions that greatly effect it's potential value?

3. "Fraud" requires a victim. There was no victim, the banks made money, there were no bank complaints, duh.

Not in this case.

You are just repeating the same old tired talking points as if they are new.

 

[kyzr]

Yes it does. Its not the same but their typically is a correlation.
It is not the property value. What are you basing this on? Are you going to pretend you don't know that MaraLago is social club and subject to restrictions that greatly effect it's potential value?
Not in this case. You are just repeating the same old tired talking points as if they are new.

1. The assessed value is what the property tax is based on, it has NOTHING to do with the actual market value. There may be a correlation (like 2300%) or not.

2. Banks have risk management teams that know how to evaluate property values. Letitia and Engeron are in wayyyyyy over their heads. The appeals court should be able to end the Kangaroo Court and persecution of Trump

3. Fraud requires a victim. Look it up. The appeals courts should straighten out the legal mess.

Blind Justice or Blind Rage: New York’s Legal System Faces Ultimate Test With Obscene Trump Award

Below is my column in The Hill on the $355 million verdict against Trump and his corporation in New York. The damages in my view are excessive and absurd after the court acknowledged that no one lo…

jonathanturley.org

"Below is my column in The Hill on the $355 million verdict against Trump and his corporation in New York. The damages in my view are excessive and absurd after the court acknowledged that no one lost a dime in these exchanges. Indeed, the “victims” wanted to do more business with Trump and made handsome profits."

 

[ColonelAngus]

Your post is exactly right.
The lender needs to evaluate the borrower, and the financial data, and if there is too much risk, the lender walks.
That's how its supposed to work.

That IS how it works.

This is all bullshit and the left knows it.

They all know the lender appraises the property. They just have TDS and the law be damned.

I challenge ANY of you to prove you got a FIRST MORTGAGE OR A NEW CONSTRUCTION LOAN on a property new to you from a lender that did NO APPRAISAL on your home.

PLEASE POST THE EVIDENCE YOU GOT THOSE LOANS WITH ZERO APPRAISAL OF THE PROPERTY FROM THE LENDER.

You will not...because it never happens.

 

[Catsnmeters]

1. The assessed value is what the property tax is based on, it has NOTHING to do with the actual market value. There may be a correlation (like 2300%) or not.

Yet, like I said, there is a correlation..

2. Banks have risk management teams that know how to evaluate property values. Letitia and Engeron are in wayyyyyy over their heads. The appeals court should be able to end the Kangaroo Court and persecution of Trump

Those teams do not authorize Trump to submit fraudulent documents.

3. Fraud requires a victim. Look it up. The appeals courts should straighten out the legal mess.

Blind Justice or Blind Rage: New York’s Legal System Faces Ultimate Test With Obscene Trump Award

Below is my column in The Hill on the $355 million verdict against Trump and his corporation in New York. The damages in my view are excessive and absurd after the court acknowledged that no one lo…

jonathanturley.org

"Below is my column in The Hill on the $355 million verdict against Trump and his corporation in New York. The damages in my view are excessive and absurd after the court acknowledged that no one lost a dime in these exchanges. Indeed, the “victims” wanted to do more business with Trump and made handsome profits."

Johnathan Turley says whatever gets him click bait revenue from Trump supporters who want to be told what they want to hear. The judge addressed victim hood in his report.

 

[Catsnmeters]

That IS how it works.

This is all bullshit and the left knows it.

They all know the lender appraises the property. They just have TDS and the law be damned.

I challenge ANY of you to prove you got a FIRST MORTGAGE OR A NEW CONSTRUCTION LOAN on a property new to you from a lender that did NO APPRAISAL on your home.

PLEASE POST THE EVIDENCE YOU GOT THOSE LOANS WITH ZERO APPRAISAL OF THE PROPERTY FROM THE LENDER.

You will not...because it never happens.

False equivalence.

Trump was securing loans in a method different then you or I would.

 

[kyzr]

Yet, like I said, there is a correlation..

Those teams do not authorize Trump to submit fraudulent documents.

Johnathan Turley says whatever gets him click bait revenue from Trump supporters who want to be told what they want to hear. The judge addressed victim hood in his report.

1. That 2300% correlation proved that Trump is right.
2. Those risk management teams mean that the numbers on the form are meaningless, every number needs to be verified and corrected before the loan is approved.
3. Jonathan Turley is a Law Professor who knows the LAW. The appeals court addressed victim-hood when they reduced the ridiculous bond amount. Further appeals should get Letitia's politically based charges dropped.

 

[ColonelAngus]

LOL!! See you just can't stop lying....
1. Trump does have many lenders to choose from. Prove he doesn't.
2. Prove financial statements don't have bias. I can use high or low numbers and still be reasonable.
3. Lenders do NOT use numbers on the paper, they do their own research, its called "due diligence", DUH.
4. You have no clue how profitable Trump's businesses are. Look at his tax return dumbass.
5. Trump's businesses made $millions every year, so they are profitable, and he paid taxes on them...LIAR

Six years of Trump's tax returns are now public | CNN Politics

Six years of former President Donald Trump's federal tax returns, long shrouded in secrecy, were released to the public on Friday by the House Ways and Means committee, the culmination of a battle over their disclosure that went to the Supreme Court.

www.cnn.com

Trump’s tax returns released by House committee show he paid little in taxes

The House Ways and Means Committee released six years of Trump's personal and business returns, ending years of legal wrangling and speculation.

www.nbcnews.com

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/30/politics/read-donald-trump-tax-returns/index.html

6. You're a fool when you don't understand that Trump is back on the Fortune 400...DUMBASS

Trump climbs back onto the Forbes 400 richest Americans list

The former president, who fell out of the rankings last year, has been helped by his Truth Social investment.

www.cbsnews.com

View attachment 923523

All they do is lie.

 

[ColonelAngus]

Cult, you told Trump, “MAKE YOUR OWN TWITTER”.

So he did.

YOU DID THAT.

You made him billions and now he is one of the 400 richest people in the country.

ALL THANKS TO YOU!

GIVE YOURSELVES A ROUND OF APPLAUSE!

 

[MagicMike]

Anyone?

Any precedents for

New York Executive Law 63(12)​

ANYONE?

Why only in 2024 and why only QUICK BEFORE THE ELECTION?

Why not Trump in 2026?
Why not Trump in 2025?

Only Trump and only in 2024!

Why not Trump in 2023?
Why not Trump in 2022?
Why not Trump in 2021?
Why not Trump in 2020?
Why not Trump in 2019?
Why not Trump in 2018?
Why not Trump in 2017?
Why not Trump in 2016?
Why not Trump in 2015?
Why not Trump in 2014?
Why not Trump in 2013?
Why not Trump in 2012?


WE ALL KNOW WHY. THIS IS A POLITICAL WITCH HUNT.

That is fake news.

 

[OldFlame]

Actually in the US "Caveat Emptor" (buyer beware) is controlling.
The buyer/lender needs to confirm details before executing the purchase.

caveat emptor /ĕmp′tôr″/

noun​

1. The axiom or principle in commerce that the buyer alone is responsible for assessing the quality of a purchase before buying.
2. A commercial principle that without a warranty the buyer takes upon himself the risk of quality.

No bank in its right mind would take the word of the borrower for anything, it would go against every internal risk policy they have. People that believe they do are just complete and total morons, i.e. most of the lefty TDS'ers on this board.