Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl. Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl. Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl.

[Toro]

And Julian Edelman is not a star receiver. He's just another of the litany of players that are made better in belichick a system. Welker is very good, don't get me wrong, but he's a slot receiver and by virtue of that he's limited in the amount of impact he can have offensively as opposed to a guy like randy moss, who is CLEARLY the only star receiver Brady has ever had to throw to. Yes gronk is the best TE In the game, but much like welker he's only limited to the amount of impact he can have.

But the biggest thing about this is that he doesn't, and never did, have all these guys at once on one team to utilize as a whole. These are just different names he's had over the years on different rosters.

Tom Brady probably wouldn't be as good on a different team, that's one knock on him I'll concede. But that doesn't change anything really, anyway. Because it doesn't matter. He's on THIS team, and no matter what roster he's given to work with, he wins championships.

You're completely football retarded if you seriously think Brady isn't a great QB.

What it sounds like to me is you just don't like him period. So these emotions you're talking about? You need to check those, my man.

I agree that it is unlikely Tom Brady would be as good on another team. But he is on that team

The same can be said about Joe Montana who had marginal QB skills but the heart of a winner. Take Montana off the 49er West Coast Offense and he would have been an average QB

Look at Archie Manning who spent his prime years in New Orleans. They turned a great QB in to and average QB

"Marginal QB skills?"

lolwut?

He was one of the most accurate, and probably the smartest, QB of his generation.

I'll take accuracy over arm strength any day.

 

[rightwinger]

And Julian Edelman is not a star receiver. He's just another of the litany of players that are made better in belichick a system. Welker is very good, don't get me wrong, but he's a slot receiver and by virtue of that he's limited in the amount of impact he can have offensively as opposed to a guy like randy moss, who is CLEARLY the only star receiver Brady has ever had to throw to. Yes gronk is the best TE In the game, but much like welker he's only limited to the amount of impact he can have.

But the biggest thing about this is that he doesn't, and never did, have all these guys at once on one team to utilize as a whole. These are just different names he's had over the years on different rosters.

Tom Brady probably wouldn't be as good on a different team, that's one knock on him I'll concede. But that doesn't change anything really, anyway. Because it doesn't matter. He's on THIS team, and no matter what roster he's given to work with, he wins championships.

You're completely football retarded if you seriously think Brady isn't a great QB.

What it sounds like to me is you just don't like him period. So these emotions you're talking about? You need to check those, my man.

I agree that it is unlikely Tom Brady would be as good on another team. But he is on that team

The same can be said about Joe Montana who had marginal QB skills but the heart of a winner. Take Montana off the 49er West Coast Offense and he would have been an average QB

Look at Archie Manning who spent his prime years in New Orleans. They turned a great QB in to and average QB

"Marginal QB skills?"

lolwut?

He was one of the most accurate, and probably the smartest, QB of his generation.

I'll take accuracy over arm strength any day.

Then why was he drafted in the third round?

Montana was too short, didn't have an NFL arm and was passed over by the whole league....TWICE before he was drafted

What Montana did have was the heart of a winner and the Bill Walsh west coast offense to thrive in. If he had been drafted by Detroit or Tampa Bay he would be remembered as just another failed Notre Dame QB

 

[Toro]

And Julian Edelman is not a star receiver. He's just another of the litany of players that are made better in belichick a system. Welker is very good, don't get me wrong, but he's a slot receiver and by virtue of that he's limited in the amount of impact he can have offensively as opposed to a guy like randy moss, who is CLEARLY the only star receiver Brady has ever had to throw to. Yes gronk is the best TE In the game, but much like welker he's only limited to the amount of impact he can have.

But the biggest thing about this is that he doesn't, and never did, have all these guys at once on one team to utilize as a whole. These are just different names he's had over the years on different rosters.

Tom Brady probably wouldn't be as good on a different team, that's one knock on him I'll concede. But that doesn't change anything really, anyway. Because it doesn't matter. He's on THIS team, and no matter what roster he's given to work with, he wins championships.

You're completely football retarded if you seriously think Brady isn't a great QB.

What it sounds like to me is you just don't like him period. So these emotions you're talking about? You need to check those, my man.

I agree that it is unlikely Tom Brady would be as good on another team. But he is on that team

The same can be said about Joe Montana who had marginal QB skills but the heart of a winner. Take Montana off the 49er West Coast Offense and he would have been an average QB

Look at Archie Manning who spent his prime years in New Orleans. They turned a great QB in to and average QB

"Marginal QB skills?"

lolwut?

He was one of the most accurate, and probably the smartest, QB of his generation.

I'll take accuracy over arm strength any day.

Then why was he drafted in the third round?

Montana was too short, didn't have an NFL arm and was passed over by the whole league....TWICE before he was drafted

What Montana did have was the heart of a winner and the Bill Walsh west coast offense to thrive in. If he had been drafted by Detroit or Tampa Bay he would be remembered as just another failed Notre Dame QB

And the whole league passed over Tom Brady six times. So that's not relevant.

Half the QBs drafted in the NFL are out of the league in a few years.

Had the 49ers drafted a lousy QB, nobody would be talking about a West Coast offense. The base of that offense had been run in Minnesota in the 60s. Montana made it famous because he was the best QB of his generation.

 

[rightwinger]

And Julian Edelman is not a star receiver. He's just another of the litany of players that are made better in belichick a system. Welker is very good, don't get me wrong, but he's a slot receiver and by virtue of that he's limited in the amount of impact he can have offensively as opposed to a guy like randy moss, who is CLEARLY the only star receiver Brady has ever had to throw to. Yes gronk is the best TE In the game, but much like welker he's only limited to the amount of impact he can have.

But the biggest thing about this is that he doesn't, and never did, have all these guys at once on one team to utilize as a whole. These are just different names he's had over the years on different rosters.

Tom Brady probably wouldn't be as good on a different team, that's one knock on him I'll concede. But that doesn't change anything really, anyway. Because it doesn't matter. He's on THIS team, and no matter what roster he's given to work with, he wins championships.

You're completely football retarded if you seriously think Brady isn't a great QB.

What it sounds like to me is you just don't like him period. So these emotions you're talking about? You need to check those, my man.

I agree that it is unlikely Tom Brady would be as good on another team. But he is on that team

The same can be said about Joe Montana who had marginal QB skills but the heart of a winner. Take Montana off the 49er West Coast Offense and he would have been an average QB

Look at Archie Manning who spent his prime years in New Orleans. They turned a great QB in to and average QB

"Marginal QB skills?"

lolwut?

He was one of the most accurate, and probably the smartest, QB of his generation.

I'll take accuracy over arm strength any day.

Then why was he drafted in the third round?

Montana was too short, didn't have an NFL arm and was passed over by the whole league....TWICE before he was drafted

What Montana did have was the heart of a winner and the Bill Walsh west coast offense to thrive in. If he had been drafted by Detroit or Tampa Bay he would be remembered as just another failed Notre Dame QB

And the whole league passed over Tom Brady six times. So that's not relevant.

Half the QBs drafted in the NFL are out of the league in a few years.

Had the 49ers drafted a lousy QB, nobody would be talking about a West Coast offense. The base of that offense had been run in Minnesota in the 60s. Montana made it famous because he was the best QB of his generation.

Steve Young stepped into that 49er offense and put up better numbers than Montana
If you want proof, Jeff Garcia stepped in after Young retired and still had QB ratings over 100. Garcia then went to Cleveland as a free agent and flopped

I still consider Tom Brady and Joe Montana as the greatest QBs of all time. Neither had can't miss skills but both had the heart of a winner and a system that they thrived in

I have never seen a better QB than Peyton Manning. But he lacks the heart and killer instinct that refuses to lose in big games

 

[Toro]

How many Super Bowls did Jeff Garcia win? Garcia's ratings were in the 90s in SF, just like they were in Philly and Tampa.

Steve Young was a superstar in his own right.

 

[rightwinger]

How many Super Bowls did Jeff Garcia win?

Steve Young was a superstar in his own right.

I think Steve Young's skills would have carried over to other teams better than Montana and Brady.
Garcia was an average QB in a great system for QBs. He thrived in SF but flopped elsewhere

 

[Toro]

How many Super Bowls did Jeff Garcia win?

Steve Young was a superstar in his own right.

I think Steve Young's skills would have carried over to other teams better than Montana and Brady.
Garcia was an average QB in a great system for QBs. He thrived in SF but flopped elsewhere

Garcia played on three teams that ran similar offenses, and was just as good in all three. He never won a SB though.

 

[Montrovant]

Jeff Garcia played well outside of SF. Steve Young was great as a Niner, but don't forget he was terrible on the Bucs (then again, so were a lot of players!). Montana played well when he moved to KC.

And the draft is only an indicator of talent, not at all a definitive measurement of it. There have been plenty of early round busts and late round gems. Just playing at a small school can hurt a player's draft stock whatever their talent level.

 

[HUGGY]

Russell Wilson is the best NFL QB of all time because he was named after the manufacturer of the official NFL football.

 

[Paulie]

You're off your rocker. My point was that teams do NOT fall in love with qb's just because they're QB's.

Are you purposely stupid, or are you just too dumb to understand? I did not say that teams fall in love with their QBs. How many times do I have to say it? My point is that people are in love with the QB position! If they happen to like a particular QB, then all things good in the world come from him, no matter how poorly he might play. Any failures will be blamed on other people. If they don't like the QB, every single thing he accomplishes will credited to someone else, while he is blamed for every shortcoming the team experiences.

This is not a difficult concept.

You're talking about fans, which I really don't care about because they have zero effect on what QB plays where, and when. Who cares that fans fall in love? As long as a team knows when it's time to move on. Which in just about most cases, they do. The saints haven't figured it out yet, but they will.

Sure, fans end up doing the same thing. But no, I'm not talking about fans being in love with their quarterback. I'm talking about damn near everyone. The owners who make offers, the coaches who chase after players, and the fans too. Most people over emphasize the QB position, as if it is the only position that matters, with everyone else being stage fillers.

Sam Bradford has nothing to do with anyones emotions. How can there be emotions over a player who hasn't proven himself yet?

Same way that people can absolutely love Tim Tebow.

It's a business decision

Oh shit, are you for realz!?! This is a business? Here, all this time, I thought the NFL was a social club.

Of course it's a business decision. That doesn't mean anything, though. People make bad business decisions every single day. People make business decisions based on all the wrong priorities every single day. Just because it's a business decision does not make it an inherently correct or perfect decision.

and one that I think is being set up for another trade to move up in the draft for Mariota. I don't see bradford ever putting on an Eagles uniform. But I'll be happy to come back here and admit I was wrong.

That may be true, but it's just as irrelevant as everything else you've been saying. Nick Foles was a very good quarterback. He had alot of success. If he was Peyton Manning, his stats would be worshiped on high. But he's only Nick Foles. The Eagles don't credit him with his own success. They credit the surrounding cast. Foles got alot of the blame for any little thing that didn't go well.

As far as luck and who made the catches.. Luck is a very good QB that can throw a receiver open with accuracy. So yes, obviously someone is going to make catches but he's the type of QB that makes his receivers better.

I don't question the fact that Luck is a very good quarterback, and before the end of his career he'll probably be among the truly few great QBs of his generation. But ultimately using him as your example is question begging. You assume that the QB position is the most important, and use Luck as the example to prove it. But you justify crediting Luck as being the one carrying the team, based on the assumption that the QB position is the most important position.

There's a vice versa of that scenario on a team like Denver, where Peyton is clearly on the downslope of his playing days but his star receivers make him look better than his skill set is these days.

Yet Peyton remains one of the best QBs in the league. Peyton's real struggles boil down to the same weaknesses that have plagued him his entire career finally catching up to him and being too easily understood by opponents. Peyton has always been too arrogant, too aggressive in tough situations, too predictable when the chips are down, and too dependent on trickery and deception. Peyton is a great QB, but he has his worst moments against the toughest defenses, which is why for all his Ws, he's never been able to be a truly championship level player. The guy can land the football on a dime from 50 yards out. To this day he can still do that. And he's pretty damn clever. Mind you, I'm no Peyton fan. His obsession with trickery has always annoyed me.

In truth, a QB and receiver make each other better. It's complementary talent. Luck's receivers make him better, and he makes them better. Even if the receivers are getting the better side of the deal in this particular case, it's completely unjustified to give Luck all the credit.

You don't seem to understand football. You may be the only person in the world that doesn't think the QB is the most important position.

I bet if you go ask receivers like Anquan Boldin, Michael Irvin, Randy Moss, and Jerry Rice would certainly disagree with the QB being the most important position. Just get the ball within a 10 yard radius, and they'd take care of the rest. Hell, I'd bet if you gave him a few cocktails and asked Michael Irvin, he'd tell you that Troy Aikman wasn't really as great as everyone thinks he was.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Your entire premise that the QB is not the most important position is a non starter.

 

[Paulie]

You're off your rocker. My point was that teams do NOT fall in love with qb's just because they're QB's.

Are you purposely stupid, or are you just too dumb to understand? I did not say that teams fall in love with their QBs. How many times do I have to say it? My point is that people are in love with the QB position! If they happen to like a particular QB, then all things good in the world come from him, no matter how poorly he might play. Any failures will be blamed on other people. If they don't like the QB, every single thing he accomplishes will credited to someone else, while he is blamed for every shortcoming the team experiences.

This is not a difficult concept.

You're talking about fans, which I really don't care about because they have zero effect on what QB plays where, and when. Who cares that fans fall in love? As long as a team knows when it's time to move on. Which in just about most cases, they do. The saints haven't figured it out yet, but they will.

Sure, fans end up doing the same thing. But no, I'm not talking about fans being in love with their quarterback. I'm talking about damn near everyone. The owners who make offers, the coaches who chase after players, and the fans too. Most people over emphasize the QB position, as if it is the only position that matters, with everyone else being stage fillers.

Sam Bradford has nothing to do with anyones emotions. How can there be emotions over a player who hasn't proven himself yet?

Same way that people can absolutely love Tim Tebow.

It's a business decision

Oh shit, are you for realz!?! This is a business? Here, all this time, I thought the NFL was a social club.

Of course it's a business decision. That doesn't mean anything, though. People make bad business decisions every single day. People make business decisions based on all the wrong priorities every single day. Just because it's a business decision does not make it an inherently correct or perfect decision.

and one that I think is being set up for another trade to move up in the draft for Mariota. I don't see bradford ever putting on an Eagles uniform. But I'll be happy to come back here and admit I was wrong.

That may be true, but it's just as irrelevant as everything else you've been saying. Nick Foles was a very good quarterback. He had alot of success. If he was Peyton Manning, his stats would be worshiped on high. But he's only Nick Foles. The Eagles don't credit him with his own success. They credit the surrounding cast. Foles got alot of the blame for any little thing that didn't go well.

As far as luck and who made the catches.. Luck is a very good QB that can throw a receiver open with accuracy. So yes, obviously someone is going to make catches but he's the type of QB that makes his receivers better.

I don't question the fact that Luck is a very good quarterback, and before the end of his career he'll probably be among the truly few great QBs of his generation. But ultimately using him as your example is question begging. You assume that the QB position is the most important, and use Luck as the example to prove it. But you justify crediting Luck as being the one carrying the team, based on the assumption that the QB position is the most important position.

There's a vice versa of that scenario on a team like Denver, where Peyton is clearly on the downslope of his playing days but his star receivers make him look better than his skill set is these days.

Yet Peyton remains one of the best QBs in the league. Peyton's real struggles boil down to the same weaknesses that have plagued him his entire career finally catching up to him and being too easily understood by opponents. Peyton has always been too arrogant, too aggressive in tough situations, too predictable when the chips are down, and too dependent on trickery and deception. Peyton is a great QB, but he has his worst moments against the toughest defenses, which is why for all his Ws, he's never been able to be a truly championship level player. The guy can land the football on a dime from 50 yards out. To this day he can still do that. And he's pretty damn clever. Mind you, I'm no Peyton fan. His obsession with trickery has always annoyed me.

In truth, a QB and receiver make each other better. It's complementary talent. Luck's receivers make him better, and he makes them better. Even if the receivers are getting the better side of the deal in this particular case, it's completely unjustified to give Luck all the credit.

You don't seem to understand football. You may be the only person in the world that doesn't think the QB is the most important position.

I bet if you go ask receivers like Anquan Boldin, Michael Irvin, Randy Moss, and Jerry Rice would certainly disagree with the QB being the most important position. Just get the ball within a 10 yard radius, and they'd take care of the rest. Hell, I'd bet if you gave him a few cocktails and asked Michael Irvin, he'd tell you that Troy Aikman wasn't really as great as everyone thinks he was.

Peyton won a super bowl and handled that good Bears defense just fine.

You win some, you lose some. Super Bowls aren't some kind of entitlement. The fact that he even won one at all is pretty amazing. I suffered through Donovan mcnabb not being able to win ANY big games. I WISH I could say he won only 1 out of 3.

 

[rightwinger]

You're off your rocker. My point was that teams do NOT fall in love with qb's just because they're QB's.

Are you purposely stupid, or are you just too dumb to understand? I did not say that teams fall in love with their QBs. How many times do I have to say it? My point is that people are in love with the QB position! If they happen to like a particular QB, then all things good in the world come from him, no matter how poorly he might play. Any failures will be blamed on other people. If they don't like the QB, every single thing he accomplishes will credited to someone else, while he is blamed for every shortcoming the team experiences.

This is not a difficult concept.

You're talking about fans, which I really don't care about because they have zero effect on what QB plays where, and when. Who cares that fans fall in love? As long as a team knows when it's time to move on. Which in just about most cases, they do. The saints haven't figured it out yet, but they will.

Sure, fans end up doing the same thing. But no, I'm not talking about fans being in love with their quarterback. I'm talking about damn near everyone. The owners who make offers, the coaches who chase after players, and the fans too. Most people over emphasize the QB position, as if it is the only position that matters, with everyone else being stage fillers.

Sam Bradford has nothing to do with anyones emotions. How can there be emotions over a player who hasn't proven himself yet?

Same way that people can absolutely love Tim Tebow.

It's a business decision

Oh shit, are you for realz!?! This is a business? Here, all this time, I thought the NFL was a social club.

Of course it's a business decision. That doesn't mean anything, though. People make bad business decisions every single day. People make business decisions based on all the wrong priorities every single day. Just because it's a business decision does not make it an inherently correct or perfect decision.

and one that I think is being set up for another trade to move up in the draft for Mariota. I don't see bradford ever putting on an Eagles uniform. But I'll be happy to come back here and admit I was wrong.

That may be true, but it's just as irrelevant as everything else you've been saying. Nick Foles was a very good quarterback. He had alot of success. If he was Peyton Manning, his stats would be worshiped on high. But he's only Nick Foles. The Eagles don't credit him with his own success. They credit the surrounding cast. Foles got alot of the blame for any little thing that didn't go well.

As far as luck and who made the catches.. Luck is a very good QB that can throw a receiver open with accuracy. So yes, obviously someone is going to make catches but he's the type of QB that makes his receivers better.

I don't question the fact that Luck is a very good quarterback, and before the end of his career he'll probably be among the truly few great QBs of his generation. But ultimately using him as your example is question begging. You assume that the QB position is the most important, and use Luck as the example to prove it. But you justify crediting Luck as being the one carrying the team, based on the assumption that the QB position is the most important position.

There's a vice versa of that scenario on a team like Denver, where Peyton is clearly on the downslope of his playing days but his star receivers make him look better than his skill set is these days.

Yet Peyton remains one of the best QBs in the league. Peyton's real struggles boil down to the same weaknesses that have plagued him his entire career finally catching up to him and being too easily understood by opponents. Peyton has always been too arrogant, too aggressive in tough situations, too predictable when the chips are down, and too dependent on trickery and deception. Peyton is a great QB, but he has his worst moments against the toughest defenses, which is why for all his Ws, he's never been able to be a truly championship level player. The guy can land the football on a dime from 50 yards out. To this day he can still do that. And he's pretty damn clever. Mind you, I'm no Peyton fan. His obsession with trickery has always annoyed me.

In truth, a QB and receiver make each other better. It's complementary talent. Luck's receivers make him better, and he makes them better. Even if the receivers are getting the better side of the deal in this particular case, it's completely unjustified to give Luck all the credit.

You don't seem to understand football. You may be the only person in the world that doesn't think the QB is the most important position.

I bet if you go ask receivers like Anquan Boldin, Michael Irvin, Randy Moss, and Jerry Rice would certainly disagree with the QB being the most important position. Just get the ball within a 10 yard radius, and they'd take care of the rest. Hell, I'd bet if you gave him a few cocktails and asked Michael Irvin, he'd tell you that Troy Aikman wasn't really as great as everyone thinks he was.

Peyton won a super bowl and handled that good Bears defense just fine.

You win some, you lose some. Super Bowls aren't some kind of entitlement. The fact that he even won one at all is pretty amazing. I suffered through Donovan mcnabb not being able to win ANY big games. I WISH I could say he won only 1 out of 3.

Peyton is one of the all time great QBs. His lack of performance in big games keeps him from being the greatest

 

[Paulie]

You're off your rocker. My point was that teams do NOT fall in love with qb's just because they're QB's.

Are you purposely stupid, or are you just too dumb to understand? I did not say that teams fall in love with their QBs. How many times do I have to say it? My point is that people are in love with the QB position! If they happen to like a particular QB, then all things good in the world come from him, no matter how poorly he might play. Any failures will be blamed on other people. If they don't like the QB, every single thing he accomplishes will credited to someone else, while he is blamed for every shortcoming the team experiences.

This is not a difficult concept.

You're talking about fans, which I really don't care about because they have zero effect on what QB plays where, and when. Who cares that fans fall in love? As long as a team knows when it's time to move on. Which in just about most cases, they do. The saints haven't figured it out yet, but they will.

Sure, fans end up doing the same thing. But no, I'm not talking about fans being in love with their quarterback. I'm talking about damn near everyone. The owners who make offers, the coaches who chase after players, and the fans too. Most people over emphasize the QB position, as if it is the only position that matters, with everyone else being stage fillers.

Sam Bradford has nothing to do with anyones emotions. How can there be emotions over a player who hasn't proven himself yet?

Same way that people can absolutely love Tim Tebow.

It's a business decision

Oh shit, are you for realz!?! This is a business? Here, all this time, I thought the NFL was a social club.

Of course it's a business decision. That doesn't mean anything, though. People make bad business decisions every single day. People make business decisions based on all the wrong priorities every single day. Just because it's a business decision does not make it an inherently correct or perfect decision.

and one that I think is being set up for another trade to move up in the draft for Mariota. I don't see bradford ever putting on an Eagles uniform. But I'll be happy to come back here and admit I was wrong.

That may be true, but it's just as irrelevant as everything else you've been saying. Nick Foles was a very good quarterback. He had alot of success. If he was Peyton Manning, his stats would be worshiped on high. But he's only Nick Foles. The Eagles don't credit him with his own success. They credit the surrounding cast. Foles got alot of the blame for any little thing that didn't go well.

As far as luck and who made the catches.. Luck is a very good QB that can throw a receiver open with accuracy. So yes, obviously someone is going to make catches but he's the type of QB that makes his receivers better.

I don't question the fact that Luck is a very good quarterback, and before the end of his career he'll probably be among the truly few great QBs of his generation. But ultimately using him as your example is question begging. You assume that the QB position is the most important, and use Luck as the example to prove it. But you justify crediting Luck as being the one carrying the team, based on the assumption that the QB position is the most important position.

There's a vice versa of that scenario on a team like Denver, where Peyton is clearly on the downslope of his playing days but his star receivers make him look better than his skill set is these days.

Yet Peyton remains one of the best QBs in the league. Peyton's real struggles boil down to the same weaknesses that have plagued him his entire career finally catching up to him and being too easily understood by opponents. Peyton has always been too arrogant, too aggressive in tough situations, too predictable when the chips are down, and too dependent on trickery and deception. Peyton is a great QB, but he has his worst moments against the toughest defenses, which is why for all his Ws, he's never been able to be a truly championship level player. The guy can land the football on a dime from 50 yards out. To this day he can still do that. And he's pretty damn clever. Mind you, I'm no Peyton fan. His obsession with trickery has always annoyed me.

In truth, a QB and receiver make each other better. It's complementary talent. Luck's receivers make him better, and he makes them better. Even if the receivers are getting the better side of the deal in this particular case, it's completely unjustified to give Luck all the credit.

You don't seem to understand football. You may be the only person in the world that doesn't think the QB is the most important position.

I bet if you go ask receivers like Anquan Boldin, Michael Irvin, Randy Moss, and Jerry Rice would certainly disagree with the QB being the most important position. Just get the ball within a 10 yard radius, and they'd take care of the rest. Hell, I'd bet if you gave him a few cocktails and asked Michael Irvin, he'd tell you that Troy Aikman wasn't really as great as everyone thinks he was.

Peyton won a super bowl and handled that good Bears defense just fine.

You win some, you lose some. Super Bowls aren't some kind of entitlement. The fact that he even won one at all is pretty amazing. I suffered through Donovan mcnabb not being able to win ANY big games. I WISH I could say he won only 1 out of 3.

Peyton is one of the all time great QBs. His lack of performance in big games keeps him from being the greatest

Right, but he still won a super bowl. And against a pretty good defense too.

 

[SwimExpert]

You have no idea what you're talking about. Your entire premise that the QB is not the most important position is a non starter.

In other words, you're an ignorant fanboi who worships the QB with the same dogmatic fervor as a religious nut. Hell, even Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

You're off your rocker. My point was that teams do NOT fall in love with qb's just because they're QB's.

Are you purposely stupid, or are you just too dumb to understand? I did not say that teams fall in love with their QBs. How many times do I have to say it? My point is that people are in love with the QB position! If they happen to like a particular QB, then all things good in the world come from him, no matter how poorly he might play. Any failures will be blamed on other people. If they don't like the QB, every single thing he accomplishes will credited to someone else, while he is blamed for every shortcoming the team experiences.

This is not a difficult concept.

You're talking about fans, which I really don't care about because they have zero effect on what QB plays where, and when. Who cares that fans fall in love? As long as a team knows when it's time to move on. Which in just about most cases, they do. The saints haven't figured it out yet, but they will.

Sure, fans end up doing the same thing. But no, I'm not talking about fans being in love with their quarterback. I'm talking about damn near everyone. The owners who make offers, the coaches who chase after players, and the fans too. Most people over emphasize the QB position, as if it is the only position that matters, with everyone else being stage fillers.

Sam Bradford has nothing to do with anyones emotions. How can there be emotions over a player who hasn't proven himself yet?

Same way that people can absolutely love Tim Tebow.

It's a business decision

Oh shit, are you for realz!?! This is a business? Here, all this time, I thought the NFL was a social club.

Of course it's a business decision. That doesn't mean anything, though. People make bad business decisions every single day. People make business decisions based on all the wrong priorities every single day. Just because it's a business decision does not make it an inherently correct or perfect decision.

and one that I think is being set up for another trade to move up in the draft for Mariota. I don't see bradford ever putting on an Eagles uniform. But I'll be happy to come back here and admit I was wrong.

That may be true, but it's just as irrelevant as everything else you've been saying. Nick Foles was a very good quarterback. He had alot of success. If he was Peyton Manning, his stats would be worshiped on high. But he's only Nick Foles. The Eagles don't credit him with his own success. They credit the surrounding cast. Foles got alot of the blame for any little thing that didn't go well.

As far as luck and who made the catches.. Luck is a very good QB that can throw a receiver open with accuracy. So yes, obviously someone is going to make catches but he's the type of QB that makes his receivers better.

I don't question the fact that Luck is a very good quarterback, and before the end of his career he'll probably be among the truly few great QBs of his generation. But ultimately using him as your example is question begging. You assume that the QB position is the most important, and use Luck as the example to prove it. But you justify crediting Luck as being the one carrying the team, based on the assumption that the QB position is the most important position.

There's a vice versa of that scenario on a team like Denver, where Peyton is clearly on the downslope of his playing days but his star receivers make him look better than his skill set is these days.

Yet Peyton remains one of the best QBs in the league. Peyton's real struggles boil down to the same weaknesses that have plagued him his entire career finally catching up to him and being too easily understood by opponents. Peyton has always been too arrogant, too aggressive in tough situations, too predictable when the chips are down, and too dependent on trickery and deception. Peyton is a great QB, but he has his worst moments against the toughest defenses, which is why for all his Ws, he's never been able to be a truly championship level player. The guy can land the football on a dime from 50 yards out. To this day he can still do that. And he's pretty damn clever. Mind you, I'm no Peyton fan. His obsession with trickery has always annoyed me.

In truth, a QB and receiver make each other better. It's complementary talent. Luck's receivers make him better, and he makes them better. Even if the receivers are getting the better side of the deal in this particular case, it's completely unjustified to give Luck all the credit.

You don't seem to understand football. You may be the only person in the world that doesn't think the QB is the most important position.

I bet if you go ask receivers like Anquan Boldin, Michael Irvin, Randy Moss, and Jerry Rice would certainly disagree with the QB being the most important position. Just get the ball within a 10 yard radius, and they'd take care of the rest. Hell, I'd bet if you gave him a few cocktails and asked Michael Irvin, he'd tell you that Troy Aikman wasn't really as great as everyone thinks he was.

Peyton won a super bowl and handled that good Bears defense just fine.

You win some, you lose some. Super Bowls aren't some kind of entitlement. The fact that he even won one at all is pretty amazing. I suffered through Donovan mcnabb not being able to win ANY big games. I WISH I could say he won only 1 out of 3.

Peyton is one of the all time great QBs. His lack of performance in big games keeps him from being the greatest

Right, but he still won a super bowl. And against a pretty good defense too.

you fail to mention that he won that superbowl against a very good defense ONLY because that defense was on the field all day long because journeyman rex grossmen, finally showed his true colors in that game on how shitty a quarterback he was constantly overthrowing to his receivers with passes that were way off target.

when you have a defense that is on the field all day long because you have an offense that has constant three and outs,of course you're going to play well.

I dont care if that was the 1985 Bears defense that was playing that day.If that defense is on the field all day long like they were,eventually they are going to get tired and worn out in the second half like they did and not be effective anymore.

The 1985 Bears defense was effective in that superbowl because they were not on the field all day long in that game charlie.lol

The Bears got to the superbowl that year because their defense and special teams carried them.well their luck ran out on them that day and was not able to carry them anymore because Grossmans true colors as a quarterback were exposed.

Im not even sure Grossman still plays anymore or not.Thats how he has faded off into the sunset since then.lol

The other two superbowls he played in,when he had to face top notch competition facing a future hall of famer Drew Brees and Wilson who there is no reason not to believe is this generations Tom Brady,he choked.

sure facing a quarterback who was a shitty one,he was able to beat,but against top notch competion,he sucked.

He is a clone of Dan Marino.Puts up impressive statisitics and numbers during the regular season,but in BIG game against top notch competition,he panicks.

He had a chance to tie the game in the final two minutes of the superbowl against the saints.

what did he do when the game was on the line in a big game against top notch competition? panic and throw a pick six.

what did he do against the seahawks in the superbowl against top notch competition again? throw a pick six again.Pick six manning goes into meltdown mode when he has to face top notch competition in big games just as his idol Dan Marino did.No wonder Marino was his idol.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

btw,how did this thread go from being about Trent Dilfer to Peyton Manning?

 

[rightwinger]

You're off your rocker. My point was that teams do NOT fall in love with qb's just because they're QB's.

Are you purposely stupid, or are you just too dumb to understand? I did not say that teams fall in love with their QBs. How many times do I have to say it? My point is that people are in love with the QB position! If they happen to like a particular QB, then all things good in the world come from him, no matter how poorly he might play. Any failures will be blamed on other people. If they don't like the QB, every single thing he accomplishes will credited to someone else, while he is blamed for every shortcoming the team experiences.

This is not a difficult concept.

You're talking about fans, which I really don't care about because they have zero effect on what QB plays where, and when. Who cares that fans fall in love? As long as a team knows when it's time to move on. Which in just about most cases, they do. The saints haven't figured it out yet, but they will.

Sure, fans end up doing the same thing. But no, I'm not talking about fans being in love with their quarterback. I'm talking about damn near everyone. The owners who make offers, the coaches who chase after players, and the fans too. Most people over emphasize the QB position, as if it is the only position that matters, with everyone else being stage fillers.

Sam Bradford has nothing to do with anyones emotions. How can there be emotions over a player who hasn't proven himself yet?

Same way that people can absolutely love Tim Tebow.

It's a business decision

Oh shit, are you for realz!?! This is a business? Here, all this time, I thought the NFL was a social club.

Of course it's a business decision. That doesn't mean anything, though. People make bad business decisions every single day. People make business decisions based on all the wrong priorities every single day. Just because it's a business decision does not make it an inherently correct or perfect decision.

and one that I think is being set up for another trade to move up in the draft for Mariota. I don't see bradford ever putting on an Eagles uniform. But I'll be happy to come back here and admit I was wrong.

That may be true, but it's just as irrelevant as everything else you've been saying. Nick Foles was a very good quarterback. He had alot of success. If he was Peyton Manning, his stats would be worshiped on high. But he's only Nick Foles. The Eagles don't credit him with his own success. They credit the surrounding cast. Foles got alot of the blame for any little thing that didn't go well.

As far as luck and who made the catches.. Luck is a very good QB that can throw a receiver open with accuracy. So yes, obviously someone is going to make catches but he's the type of QB that makes his receivers better.

I don't question the fact that Luck is a very good quarterback, and before the end of his career he'll probably be among the truly few great QBs of his generation. But ultimately using him as your example is question begging. You assume that the QB position is the most important, and use Luck as the example to prove it. But you justify crediting Luck as being the one carrying the team, based on the assumption that the QB position is the most important position.

There's a vice versa of that scenario on a team like Denver, where Peyton is clearly on the downslope of his playing days but his star receivers make him look better than his skill set is these days.

Yet Peyton remains one of the best QBs in the league. Peyton's real struggles boil down to the same weaknesses that have plagued him his entire career finally catching up to him and being too easily understood by opponents. Peyton has always been too arrogant, too aggressive in tough situations, too predictable when the chips are down, and too dependent on trickery and deception. Peyton is a great QB, but he has his worst moments against the toughest defenses, which is why for all his Ws, he's never been able to be a truly championship level player. The guy can land the football on a dime from 50 yards out. To this day he can still do that. And he's pretty damn clever. Mind you, I'm no Peyton fan. His obsession with trickery has always annoyed me.

In truth, a QB and receiver make each other better. It's complementary talent. Luck's receivers make him better, and he makes them better. Even if the receivers are getting the better side of the deal in this particular case, it's completely unjustified to give Luck all the credit.

You don't seem to understand football. You may be the only person in the world that doesn't think the QB is the most important position.

I bet if you go ask receivers like Anquan Boldin, Michael Irvin, Randy Moss, and Jerry Rice would certainly disagree with the QB being the most important position. Just get the ball within a 10 yard radius, and they'd take care of the rest. Hell, I'd bet if you gave him a few cocktails and asked Michael Irvin, he'd tell you that Troy Aikman wasn't really as great as everyone thinks he was.

Peyton won a super bowl and handled that good Bears defense just fine.

You win some, you lose some. Super Bowls aren't some kind of entitlement. The fact that he even won one at all is pretty amazing. I suffered through Donovan mcnabb not being able to win ANY big games. I WISH I could say he won only 1 out of 3.

Peyton is one of the all time great QBs. His lack of performance in big games keeps him from being the greatest

Right, but he still won a super bowl. And against a pretty good defense too.

Yes he won a Superbowl and was MVP

The game was played in a downpour and neither offense nor defense had their best day

 

[Paulie]

You're off your rocker. My point was that teams do NOT fall in love with qb's just because they're QB's.

Are you purposely stupid, or are you just too dumb to understand? I did not say that teams fall in love with their QBs. How many times do I have to say it? My point is that people are in love with the QB position! If they happen to like a particular QB, then all things good in the world come from him, no matter how poorly he might play. Any failures will be blamed on other people. If they don't like the QB, every single thing he accomplishes will credited to someone else, while he is blamed for every shortcoming the team experiences.

This is not a difficult concept.

You're talking about fans, which I really don't care about because they have zero effect on what QB plays where, and when. Who cares that fans fall in love? As long as a team knows when it's time to move on. Which in just about most cases, they do. The saints haven't figured it out yet, but they will.

Sure, fans end up doing the same thing. But no, I'm not talking about fans being in love with their quarterback. I'm talking about damn near everyone. The owners who make offers, the coaches who chase after players, and the fans too. Most people over emphasize the QB position, as if it is the only position that matters, with everyone else being stage fillers.

Sam Bradford has nothing to do with anyones emotions. How can there be emotions over a player who hasn't proven himself yet?

Same way that people can absolutely love Tim Tebow.

It's a business decision

Oh shit, are you for realz!?! This is a business? Here, all this time, I thought the NFL was a social club.

Of course it's a business decision. That doesn't mean anything, though. People make bad business decisions every single day. People make business decisions based on all the wrong priorities every single day. Just because it's a business decision does not make it an inherently correct or perfect decision.

and one that I think is being set up for another trade to move up in the draft for Mariota. I don't see bradford ever putting on an Eagles uniform. But I'll be happy to come back here and admit I was wrong.

That may be true, but it's just as irrelevant as everything else you've been saying. Nick Foles was a very good quarterback. He had alot of success. If he was Peyton Manning, his stats would be worshiped on high. But he's only Nick Foles. The Eagles don't credit him with his own success. They credit the surrounding cast. Foles got alot of the blame for any little thing that didn't go well.

As far as luck and who made the catches.. Luck is a very good QB that can throw a receiver open with accuracy. So yes, obviously someone is going to make catches but he's the type of QB that makes his receivers better.

I don't question the fact that Luck is a very good quarterback, and before the end of his career he'll probably be among the truly few great QBs of his generation. But ultimately using him as your example is question begging. You assume that the QB position is the most important, and use Luck as the example to prove it. But you justify crediting Luck as being the one carrying the team, based on the assumption that the QB position is the most important position.

There's a vice versa of that scenario on a team like Denver, where Peyton is clearly on the downslope of his playing days but his star receivers make him look better than his skill set is these days.

Yet Peyton remains one of the best QBs in the league. Peyton's real struggles boil down to the same weaknesses that have plagued him his entire career finally catching up to him and being too easily understood by opponents. Peyton has always been too arrogant, too aggressive in tough situations, too predictable when the chips are down, and too dependent on trickery and deception. Peyton is a great QB, but he has his worst moments against the toughest defenses, which is why for all his Ws, he's never been able to be a truly championship level player. The guy can land the football on a dime from 50 yards out. To this day he can still do that. And he's pretty damn clever. Mind you, I'm no Peyton fan. His obsession with trickery has always annoyed me.

In truth, a QB and receiver make each other better. It's complementary talent. Luck's receivers make him better, and he makes them better. Even if the receivers are getting the better side of the deal in this particular case, it's completely unjustified to give Luck all the credit.

You don't seem to understand football. You may be the only person in the world that doesn't think the QB is the most important position.

I bet if you go ask receivers like Anquan Boldin, Michael Irvin, Randy Moss, and Jerry Rice would certainly disagree with the QB being the most important position. Just get the ball within a 10 yard radius, and they'd take care of the rest. Hell, I'd bet if you gave him a few cocktails and asked Michael Irvin, he'd tell you that Troy Aikman wasn't really as great as everyone thinks he was.

Peyton won a super bowl and handled that good Bears defense just fine.

You win some, you lose some. Super Bowls aren't some kind of entitlement. The fact that he even won one at all is pretty amazing. I suffered through Donovan mcnabb not being able to win ANY big games. I WISH I could say he won only 1 out of 3.

Peyton is one of the all time great QBs. His lack of performance in big games keeps him from being the greatest

Right, but he still won a super bowl. And against a pretty good defense too.

you fail to mention that he won that superbowl against a very good defense ONLY because that defense was on the field all day long because journeyman rex grossmen, finally showed his true colors in that game on how shitty a quarterback he was constantly overthrowing to his receivers with passes that were way off target.

when you have a defense that is on the field all day long because you have an offense that has constant three and outs,of course you're going to play well.

I dont care if that was the 1985 Bears defense that was playing that day.If that defense is on the field all day long like they were,eventually they are going to get tired and worn out in the second half like they did and not be effective anymore.

The 1985 Bears defense was effective in that superbowl because they were not on the field all day long in that game charlie.lol

The Bears got to the superbowl that year because their defense and special teams carried them.well their luck ran out on them that day and was not able to carry them anymore because Grossmans true colors as a quarterback were exposed.

Im not even sure Grossman still plays anymore or not.Thats how he has faded off into the sunset since then.lol

The other two superbowls he played in,when he had to face top notch competition facing a future hall of famer Drew Brees and Wilson who there is no reason not to believe is this generations Tom Brady,he choked.

sure facing a quarterback who was a shitty one,he was able to beat,but against top notch competion,he sucked.

He is a clone of Dan Marino.Puts up impressive statisitics and numbers during the regular season,but in BIG game against top notch competition,he panicks.

He had a chance to tie the game in the final two minutes of the superbowl against the saints.

what did he do when the game was on the line in a big game against top notch competition? panic and throw a pick six.

what did he do against the seahawks in the superbowl against top notch competition again? throw a pick six again.Pick six manning goes into meltdown mode when he has to face top notch competition in big games just as his idol Dan Marino did.No wonder Marino was his idol.

Many people consider the 91 Eagles defense to be the best ever because the offense that season was so bad that the defense spent more time on the field than any of the other historically great defenses in NFL history.

So don't give me that shit about tired defenses.

 

[Paulie]

You have no idea what you're talking about. Your entire premise that the QB is not the most important position is a non starter.

In other words, you're an ignorant fanboi who worships the QB with the same dogmatic fervor as a religious nut. Hell, even Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl.

Yep I'm just a fanboi. Along with every single NFL team owner and general manager that recognizes the same, based on the fact that the QB is the highest paid position in the NFL BY FAR.

And you know damn well that dilfer wasn't winning that super bowl without that defense. You probably wouldn't even have been in it to begin with.

 

[Paulie]

I remember brad Johnson winning a super bowl too. Who again, wouldn't have had a shot in hell without that defense.