Torture poll

[catzmeow]

In the meantime, the left continues attempting to destroy every moral this Nation is founded upon.

I'm not a leftist, so I can't really speak to that. However, I would like us to hold true to our Constitution and bill of rights. THAT would be awesome.

 

[Gunny]

You're such a liar.

No he's not. He's got it exactly right. DO refresh our memories on who howled the loudest for Bush to "do something" after 9/11? Most people on the right I know were too busy cleaning their guns to go crying to "daddy" to "save us."

You lefties demand a perfect world from the right and your expectations are unrealistic. You can't tie people's hands behind their backs, throw them in the ring and expect them to win.

Your eyes are brown.

You're a useless troll.

 

[Ravi]

yeah, the death penalty would be wrong, too. as is imprisoning someone against his will. might as well fight to get KSM a trial in the US so he can be set free and blow up another skyscraper...oh wait, Obama's already doing that.

So I guess thats that. Tell us, why do we need justice again?
OH --To build a civilization. Without Justice, we would have Anarchy in the streets!! The whole point of founding a nation goes out the window if we no longer distinguish what is moral and immoral.

Now I am starting to sound like a preacher!! I dislike you elvis!!

In the meantime, the left continues attempting to destroy every moral this Nation is founded upon. They only hold the right and the military to any moral standard and it's a standard they could never hope to live up to.

That's bullshit. I'm against legalizing torture no matter which politician does it.

How do you conclude that torture is a moral value anyway?

 

[CrimsonWhite]

don't be an idiot.

If it's ok for us to torture, why isn't it ok for them to torture?

Us good, them bad?

This poll is stupid.

I concur.

 

[DavidS]

Do you feel captured American troops should be subjected to torture if the enemy feels they have information on future military actions that would help them save the lives of their countrymen?

I'm going out on a limb here without reading the follow up posts, and am guessing you're setting up a point about whether it's OK for Americans to torture but not to be tortured.

If so, what a pointless point.

Actually, just the opposite. I DON'T fell it's ok for America to do to what we've done to these animals. I don't care about them personally... they could be hung on a meat hook covered with honey above a fire ant mound for all I care. What I DO care about is how this country acts. The entire principles of this country are: NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.

 

[Gunny]

This poll is stupid.

Actually, it's one of the smarter things I've seen DavidS post. If we torture enemy combatants, it makes it more likely that torture will be used against our POWs.

Bullshit. It gets used on our POWs, period. It doesn't matter whether we do it or not. Believing THAT is just buying the company line.

 

[DavidS]

I'm the first person with the balls to vote yes. You guys are a bunch of cowards.

The problem here is that I oppose war in general, but in the event of war, I know that both sides are fighting for something. I'm not naive enough to say that our side should be the only one to use whatever means necessary to win.

Finally the first one here to answer honestly.

Green rep for that.

 

[DavidS]

If the people of this country are willing to accept that their government has the right to torture suspects in their custody, and ignore international laws and treaties as well as domestic laws banning torture, there is no reason for any other nation, state, or faction to comply with these laws either.
In the future any American held captive outside of this country can be questioned by those claiming authority using any interrogation technique they deem necessary. The term “those in authority” will be interpreted as those claiming jurisdiction in the location at the time of the interrogation.

Meanwhile Muslim Terrorists routinely just MURDER captives, usually by beheading them. But hey that is JUST fine with you dumb asses. Remind me how international law applies to none State terrorists. I saw in the future to solve this problem we just announce all captured Terrorists will be tried for Treason by the Military ( not civilian) and hanged if convicted with only one appeal. I mean they belong to no country so we will just assume they are ours after capturing them, then since they were under arms at the time we will assume they were OUR military and since they were attacking us, TREASON applies.

There ya go, they get all the rights of any US Military personnel. Happy now?

So let me understand your point:

Because person A is immoral, then I have a right to be immoral.

Or--were you trying to make a logically based point?

Another excellent point.

 

[Gunny]

No he's not. He's got it exactly right. DO refresh our memories on who howled the loudest for Bush to "do something" after 9/11? Most people on the right I know were too busy cleaning their guns to go crying to "daddy" to "save us.".

Most of my peers were too busy doing rescue and cleanup to howl about anything at all.

My point exactly. While the collective left was crying for someone to come wipe their asses and tuck them in, others were DOING something and not waiting on anyone else to do it for them.

 

[MaggieMae]

the enhanced interrogation techniques that were outlined in the New York times were NOT torture.

Interrogation Techniques - Interactive Graphic - NYTimes.com

The Ten techniques are as follows:

Sleep Deprivation: If keeping people awake was torture, then I should sue all my teachers who woke me up during class

Nudity: So now embarrassment is torture?

Dietary Manipulation: If the feeding of nutritionally complete tasteless meals is torture then every school cafeteria worker in the US would be in jail.

Abdominal Slap: My strength coach in High School used to drop medicine ball on our stomachs, I wished he would have just slapped my tummy with an open hand.

Attention Grasp: Oh my god, grabbing someone by the shirt is torture!

Facial Slap: Any guy can tell you a slap across the face, while it stings, is no big deal

Facial Hold: placing an open hand on either side of the face, making sure not to poke the person in the eye. Oh my that's just horrible!

Wall Standing: Yeah and? Shit we did more painful things at football practice

Water Dousing: Cold potable water from a hose splashed on the chest. Come on.

Stress Positions: Designed not to inflict pain by contorting or twisting joints but rather to inflict discomfort and muscle fatigue.

Cramped Confinement: Small dark place, limited to 2 hours. So take a nap.

Confinement with Insects: The person must be told a non stinging,non biting non toxic bug will be placed in the room with him. Those of you who live in New York and have ever had a cockroach in your room were being tortured all this time and you didn't even know it.

Walling: Being bounced of a flexible wall while being provided neck and back support to prevent whip lash. YAWN.

Now here's the big one

Water Boarding: Up to 40 seconds but more like 20 seconds of feeling like you're drowning. Not too bad compared to falling 80 stories amidst a mass of crumbling concrete, twisted hot steel and fire.

-- Sleep deprivation doesn't mean keeping someone from his nap or usual 6-8 hours deep sleep per day. It means sitting strapped to a chair and forced to remain awake for long periods of time, often a full week. If you've never been FORCED to stay awake with no outside distractions available like a splash of water, a cigarette, turning on the radio, getting up and walking around, then you don't know what sleep DEPRIVATION is. This isn't even in the same league, but I once had to sit through a six-hour lecture with no breaks. When anyone got up to go to the bathroom or whatever, the lecturer would pause and wouldn't continue for five minutes (really, really dumb), so I decided to force myself to stay awake through this horridly boring subject out of consideration for the others. After awhile, your whole body reacts in physical pain. I cannot imagine having to endure an entire week.

-- Nudity and other quasi-sexual enactments (like smearing menstrual blood on a nude body) are considered taboo by Islam. Those people have been well indoctrinated (brainwashed) to be even more frantic over something like that than, surprise surprise, waterboarding.

-- Waterboarding actually accomplishes little against Islamic extremists, who, again, well indoctrinated, WANT to die and their physical pain is considered a sacrifice to Allah.

These people are not accustomed to the nonchalance of the American lifestyle, like smacking other people around over mundane disagreements. Time you started understanding that what appears to be "normal" may not be "normal" to others, which is WHY some of those practices like repeatedly being bounced against a wall can be torture to them but not to you.

 

[MaggieMae]

The Liberal dumb asses define it as embarrassment or discomfort of any kind. No loud music, no yelling or curse words, no touching, no keeping them awake, no scaring them into talking with absolut6ely no chance they will be harmed.

Well until one of their liberal cities goes up, then they will turn into a howling mob and hang people.

The New United States' Policies and Procedures
Manual on Interrogation and Intelligence Gathering
​

All policies and procedures in this memo must be followed to the letter. Violation of any of the following procedures will result in incarceration.

All persons of foreign citizenship to be questioned by any agent of the United States of America must first presented with a written invitation to participate in the investigatory process.

If the invitation is accepted, the participant shall be visited by a hospitality party comprised of representative of a United State's agency, for example the CIA or FBI, and one human rights official from every other country on the planet.

All members of the hospitality party and our invitee will be conveyed by limousine, not military or otherwise identifiably government vehicles so as not to be stigmatized by being perceived as a criminal.

If conveyance out of the invitee's home country is necessary, transportation will be by private jet and all efforts will be made to ensure the comfort of the invitee. A personal staff, including, 25 attorneys, a personal secretary, chef, physician, masseuse, and personal trainer will be provided and will be on call 24 hours a day.

The invitee will be held in suite at a 5 star resort with no less than 5 rooms and a hot tub.

The interrogation schedule will be coordinated with the invitee's personal secretary and all possible efforts will be made to accommodate the invitee's needs and wants.

All questions asked by an agent of the United States must begin with "Please, Esteemed and Honorable, Sir" And the invitee must be thanked at least 5 times for any response to a question.

The invitee can at any time call a temporary halt or an indefinite delay to all interrogation. Until such time as the invite wishes to resume interrogation, every effort humanly possible will be made to ensure his comfort and feeling of safety and well being.

Any variation from this procedure by an agent of the United States will result in an immediate conviction sans trial on charges of violation of the civil rights of and hate crimes toward the invitee and the violator will be summarily executed.

My you're so clever. The US code for rules of interrogation are found in the Army Field Manual.

 

[Gunny]

In the meantime, the left continues attempting to destroy every moral this Nation is founded upon.

I'm not a leftist, so I can't really speak to that. However, I would like us to hold true to our Constitution and bill of rights. THAT would be awesome.

Yes it would. The Bill of Rights are Rights afforded US citizens, not POWs, and the Constitution is the law of the US, not any other country.

You also need to get one thing clear: I'm not condoning torture at all. I'm arguing against the dishonest misuse of the word and the dishonestly of the leftwingnuts in general. They and the US Constitution as it is written have NOTHING in common.

 

[Gunny]

So I guess thats that. Tell us, why do we need justice again?
OH --To build a civilization. Without Justice, we would have Anarchy in the streets!! The whole point of founding a nation goes out the window if we no longer distinguish what is moral and immoral.

Now I am starting to sound like a preacher!! I dislike you elvis!!

In the meantime, the left continues attempting to destroy every moral this Nation is founded upon. They only hold the right and the military to any moral standard and it's a standard they could never hope to live up to.

That's bullshit. I'm against legalizing torture no matter which politician does it.

How do you conclude that torture is a moral value anyway?

Non sequitur. I came to no such conclusion.

 

[Sinatra]

In the meantime, the left continues attempting to destroy every moral this Nation is founded upon.

I'm not a leftist, so I can't really speak to that. However, I would like us to hold true to our Constitution and bill of rights. THAT would be awesome.

Yes it would. The Bill of Rights are Rights afforded US citizens, not POWs, and the Constitution is the law of the US, not any other country.

You also need to get one thing clear: I'm not condoning torture at all. I'm arguing against the dishonest misuse of the word and the dishonestly of the leftwingnuts in general. They and the US Constitution as it is written have NOTHING in common.

Yup.

 

[jillian]

The Liberal dumb asses define it as embarrassment or discomfort of any kind. No loud music, no yelling or curse words, no touching, no keeping them awake, no scaring them into talking with absolut6ely no chance they will be harmed.

Well until one of their liberal cities goes up, then they will turn into a howling mob and hang people.

You're such a liar.

No he's not. He's got it exactly right. DO refresh our memories on who howled the loudest for Bush to "do something" after 9/11? Most people on the right I know were too busy cleaning their guns to go crying to "daddy" to "save us."

You lefties demand a perfect world from the right and your expectations are unrealistic. You can't tie people's hands behind their backs, throw them in the ring and expect them to win.

A surprising bunch of hooey....

I'll let all the people I know who were actually AT ground zero cleaning up the mess and looking for bodies that they didn't DO anything.

We didn't WANT Bush to invade a country that had nothing to freaking do with 9/11!

There was action that should have been had... Bush's pretend BS war of choice wasn't it.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

You're such a liar.

No he's not. He's got it exactly right. DO refresh our memories on who howled the loudest for Bush to "do something" after 9/11? Most people on the right I know were too busy cleaning their guns to go crying to "daddy" to "save us."

You lefties demand a perfect world from the right and your expectations are unrealistic. You can't tie people's hands behind their backs, throw them in the ring and expect them to win.

A surprising bunch of hooey....

I'll let all the people I know who were actually AT ground zero cleaning up the mess and looking for bodies that they didn't DO anything.

We didn't WANT Bush to invade a country that had nothing to freaking do with 9/11!

There was action that should have been had... Bush's pretend BS war of choice wasn't it.

Calling bullshit on you there. The war in Afghan was justified. From the start. We had a clear mission, with a clear objective that went to the heart of the cause of 9/11.

 

[Ravi]

In the meantime, the left continues attempting to destroy every moral this Nation is founded upon. They only hold the right and the military to any moral standard and it's a standard they could never hope to live up to.

That's bullshit. I'm against legalizing torture no matter which politician does it.

How do you conclude that torture is a moral value anyway?

Non sequitur. I came to no such conclusion.

Then why bring up moral values on a discussion about torture.

 

[MaggieMae]

Define torture

Excellent suggestion!


Merriam-Webster:
The infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure.


Interesting that torture can be considered pleasurable....

Intense tickling can also be considered torture, if the recipient is unwilling to participate (i.e., a child).

Expand your definition of torture, which includes "sadistic" and you get:

sad·ism (sā′diz′əm, sad′iz′əm)

1.the getting of sexual pleasure from dominating, mistreating, or hurting one's partner
2.the getting of pleasure from inflicting physical or psychological pain on another or others

 

[DavidS]

This poll is stupid.

why is it stupid? Because he is flipping it around on you?

Flipping it around? You mean playing a semantical game? Because that's all it amounts to.

Define "torture." Then define "terror." Every time you threat to punish your child or DO punish your child, it can be dishonestly misconstrued to say it's one, the other, or both. There is no honesty to the argument, and as is typical of most leftwing arguments/accusations, it then just becomes a matter of misconstruing words or using broad, general terms they can twist to mean whatever they want.

And for some reason, this board seems to have recently attracted quite the little group of leftwing, word-game players. Unfortunately for them, they aren't even good at it.

The simple facts are, we, as a Nation, do not torture. We as a nation have ALWAYS used coercion to obtain information, and the limit gets pushed every time. By every administration; regardless, which side of the aile they are on.

Until one of the blabbermouths on here can provide an instance where waterboarding was used AFTER it was ruled illegal in a US court, then this is just more leftwingnut, beating a dead horse to take the attention off their own fuckups bullshit.

Losers.

Waterboarding once is not torture.

Waterboarding 183 times is.

 

[NOBama]

So I guess thats that. Tell us, why do we need justice again?
OH --To build a civilization. Without Justice, we would have Anarchy in the streets!! The whole point of founding a nation goes out the window if we no longer distinguish what is moral and immoral.

Now I am starting to sound like a preacher!! I dislike you elvis!!

In the meantime, the left continues attempting to destroy every moral this Nation is founded upon. They only hold the right and the military to any moral standard and it's a standard they could never hope to live up to.

That's bullshit. I'm against legalizing torture no matter which politician does it.

How do you conclude that torture is a moral value anyway?

Then why didn't Pelosi and co, scream bloody murder when they did the virtual tour of the CIA facilities that were to be used to "pursuade" enemy combatants to cough up intell?

Hill Briefed on Waterboarding in 2002
By Joby Warrick and Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writers

Sunday, December 9, 2007; Page A01

In September 2002, four members of Congress met in secret for a first look at a unique CIA program designed to wring vital information from reticent terrorism suspects in U.S. custody. For more than an hour, the bipartisan group, which included current House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), was given a virtual tour of the CIA's overseas detention sites and the harsh techniques interrogators had devised to try to make their prisoners talk.

Among the techniques described, said two officials present, was waterboarding, a practice that years later would be condemned as torture by Democrats and some Republicans on Capitol Hill. But on that day, no objections were raised. Instead, at least two lawmakers in the room asked the CIA to push harder, two U.S. officials said.

"The briefer was specifically asked if the methods were tough enough," said a U.S. official who witnessed the exchange.

Hill Briefed on Waterboarding in 2002 - washingtonpost.com