To Vaccinate or Not To Vaccinate

[Montrovant]

When my first son was born (he will be one on the 24th of this month), I waited until a few hours before discharge before getting his HepB vaccine. Kai was fine up until then. After the vaccine, he started having retractions (not normal in any baby), rapid breathing and was gasping every now and then. Coincidence? I don't think so. I have every right and good reason to be leery of vaccines. I've seen firsthand what they can do. Doctors say moderate to severe reactions are rare, one in so many. But why would I, after seeing my newborn suffer, want to risk even that small chance? Wanna know what makes it even worse? The pediatrician threatened to sue me if I reported it. I don't have the money to go against the medical system. I felt trapped and didn't know what to do and also didn't have the time to look into it any further, just giving birth and breastfeeding (via electric pump).

Why would you risk that small chance? Because it's a smaller chance than getting the diseases the vaccines are there to prevent. Because, I hope, your child is fine despite having what you believe to have been a bad reaction to whatever vaccine he received.

You certainly don't have to vaccinate your kids (although it may prevent them from doing some things such as attending public schools) but I think the only reason so many people even consider that choice is because the diseases the vaccines have helped to prevent are no longer prevalent. If polio, for instance, was still the risk it was before a vaccine was created, I doubt most of the anti-vaccine people would have the same stance they do now.

If enough people stop giving vaccinations and some of these diseases grow in frequency, perhaps this anti-vaccine movement will lose relevancy.

 

[FA_Q2]

When my first son was born (he will be one on the 24th of this month), I waited until a few hours before discharge before getting his HepB vaccine. Kai was fine up until then. After the vaccine, he started having retractions (not normal in any baby), rapid breathing and was gasping every now and then. Coincidence? I don't think so. I have every right and good reason to be leery of vaccines. I've seen firsthand what they can do. Doctors say moderate to severe reactions are rare, one in so many. But why would I, after seeing my newborn suffer, want to risk even that small chance? Wanna know what makes it even worse? The pediatrician threatened to sue me if I reported it. I don't have the money to go against the medical system. I felt trapped and didn't know what to do and also didn't have the time to look into it any further, just giving birth and breastfeeding (via electric pump).

Why would you risk that small chance? Because it's a smaller chance than getting the diseases the vaccines are there to prevent. Because, I hope, your child is fine despite having what you believe to have been a bad reaction to whatever vaccine he received.

You certainly don't have to vaccinate your kids (although it may prevent them from doing some things such as attending public schools) but I think the only reason so many people even consider that choice is because the diseases the vaccines have helped to prevent are no longer prevalent. If polio, for instance, was still the risk it was before a vaccine was created, I doubt most of the anti-vaccine people would have the same stance they do now.

If enough people stop giving vaccinations and some of these diseases grow in frequency, perhaps this anti-vaccine movement will lose relevancy.

That is correct. Unfortunately, it takes dead children for them to understand.

 

[Noomi]

When my first son was born (he will be one on the 24th of this month), I waited until a few hours before discharge before getting his HepB vaccine. Kai was fine up until then. After the vaccine, he started having retractions (not normal in any baby), rapid breathing and was gasping every now and then. Coincidence? I don't think so. I have every right and good reason to be leery of vaccines. I've seen firsthand what they can do. Doctors say moderate to severe reactions are rare, one in so many. But why would I, after seeing my newborn suffer, want to risk even that small chance? Wanna know what makes it even worse? The pediatrician threatened to sue me if I reported it. I don't have the money to go against the medical system. I felt trapped and didn't know what to do and also didn't have the time to look into it any further, just giving birth and breastfeeding (via electric pump).

Your son suffered a one in a million reaction, and the odds of his suffering the same with another vaccination is less than the equivalent of a drop of water in the ocean.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

1 in million. Do you realize the chance of a child dying is about 1 in 12,000. There are a hell of a lot more important things parents should be concerned about than the safety of vaccines.

To evaluate a vaccine, you have to compare today against the time before the vaccine

In 1916, 12,000 people died in the US from measles.
In 2011, there were no deaths in the US due measles.

In 1930, there were over 500 reported deaths from whooping cough
In 2011, there were 10 deaths.

In 1921, there were 15,520 deaths from Diphtheria
Between 2004 and 2008, there were no reported cases of diphtheria

In 1947, there were 6280 cases of Tetanus
Between 2001 and 2008, there were 193.

Of course there were other advances in medical science that have reduce the number of occurrences but the dramatic reduction in occurrences has to be attributed to the vaccine.

Flopper: Are you a physician?

If so, you've seen that person come in wearing oxygen due to their advanced emphysema, but still reeking of tobacco smoke.

With some people, you just can't fix stupid. Mikey is fixated on his belief that everyone in medicine is out to "get" him, yet believes that raw milk will cure cancer. No matter how much evidence anyone provides him, there just isn't any fixing that.

Same thing with Darlene. She is intransigent in her beliefs, and no amount of evidence is going to fix that.

I just hope that any reasonable person who visits these boards will see what we have posted and get their kids vaccinated, so that when they come into my ED with a fever and flu-like symptoms I can simply reassure their parents they will probably be okay.

 

[koshergrl]

Hard to believe that some people can stand back and watch as others die of horrible diseases that can be prevented with vaccinations, but still refuse to vaccinate their own children because on an ignorant belief that their precious one might get autism because one child was diagnosed with it after getting their shots.

Vaccinate your fucking kids.

Vaccinate you and yours and you won't have to worry about people who don't vaccinate theirs. Pretty simple.

Not really. Children can't be vaccinated for many of the things that wipe them out until they reach a certain age. So when irresposible and foolish people refuse to vaccinate, they increase the chances that those children get infected and die.

 

[koshergrl]

When my first son was born (he will be one on the 24th of this month), I waited until a few hours before discharge before getting his HepB vaccine. Kai was fine up until then. After the vaccine, he started having retractions (not normal in any baby), rapid breathing and was gasping every now and then. Coincidence? I don't think so. I have every right and good reason to be leery of vaccines. I've seen firsthand what they can do. Doctors say moderate to severe reactions are rare, one in so many. But why would I, after seeing my newborn suffer, want to risk even that small chance? Wanna know what makes it even worse? The pediatrician threatened to sue me if I reported it. I don't have the money to go against the medical system. I felt trapped and didn't know what to do and also didn't have the time to look into it any further, just giving birth and breastfeeding (via electric pump).

Is he still alive?

Awesome. If he contracted hep, he might not be..and if he was, it wouldn't be for long.

 

[sameech]

Not really. Children can't be vaccinated for many of the things that wipe them out until they reach a certain age. So when irresposible and foolish people refuse to vaccinate, they increase the chances that those children get infected and die.

So? Not everybody can be saved. If you have a child that cannot be vaccinated, then keep them as far away from the public as possible. Public policy should not be based upon the wants or needs of the weakest amongst us and people should not be forced to spend their money on the needs of other people.

 

[Flopper]

When my first son was born (he will be one on the 24th of this month), I waited until a few hours before discharge before getting his HepB vaccine. Kai was fine up until then. After the vaccine, he started having retractions (not normal in any baby), rapid breathing and was gasping every now and then. Coincidence? I don't think so. I have every right and good reason to be leery of vaccines. I've seen firsthand what they can do. Doctors say moderate to severe reactions are rare, one in so many. But why would I, after seeing my newborn suffer, want to risk even that small chance? Wanna know what makes it even worse? The pediatrician threatened to sue me if I reported it. I don't have the money to go against the medical system. I felt trapped and didn't know what to do and also didn't have the time to look into it any further, just giving birth and breastfeeding (via electric pump).

What you should do is report any adverse reaction to the CDC using the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System. Anyone, parent, friend, or healthcare professional can file a report. This provides valuable information for parents, healthcare professionals, the CDC, and the manufacture. It's an important part of the ongoing monitoring of vaccinations. Anyone can search the database for information about vaccines. Parents need to be aware of side effects and adverse reactions so they know what to watch for after a vaccination.

Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System

In considering whether to vaccinate a child, parents need to consider both the risk and benefits, both to the child and to society. The approach should be no different than making any other medical decision. All medical treatments have risks and side effects and it's important to understand them so an intelligent decision can be made. In the case of vaccines, the risk are extremely small.
Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System

 

[Uncensored2008]

You said that one party was anti-science...there's no point trying to deflect.

I said that the Khmer Rouge democrats are anti-science, and proved my claim.

You haven't been able to back your statement up, instead you point to one guy and claim that he represents Republicans - I think that's what you're claiming anyway.
If you're going to point to individuals I'm sure we can go toe-to-toe on that.

I demonstrated the the Khmer Rouge makes irrational attacks on GMO's, Nuclear Power, Fracking, and anything else that deviates from leftist orthodoxy. Ultimately, leftism is absolute obedience to party dogma.

If you oppose fracking or nuclear power how does that mean you're anti-science?

Every bit as much as opposing evolution is. The rejection of demonstrable fact in favor of dogma is anti-science.

You make no sense.

I make perfect sense, your capacity to reason not withstanding.

For example - I might oppose fracking because it contributes to CO2 pollution and I'm unhappy about that...how does that make me 'anti-science'?

CO2 is not a pollutant. That you should make such a statement demonstrates that you place dogma ahead of fact.

You might support fracking despite the science showing that it contributes to CO2 poluution because you reject the scientific evidence that CO2 is bad for the climate - you reject the science.
Anti-science is rejecting the evidence and conclusions presented by the scientific method.

I support science, the use of demonstrable and repeatable fact to support claims and beliefs.

The right being mostly moderate would be news to those in Congress that are terrified of the looney, anti-science, anti-intellectual far right factions.

It is the left that fears and loathes science.

YOU think science is a thing - a religion to be followed by faith.

Reality is that science is a process, a methodology for discovery and testing. Because your religion can not stand the rigors of legitimate scientific methods, your priests and mullahs fear and detest the actuality of science.

The arguments against wind power - including the deaths of birds - have mostly come from the conservatives on this forum...it's good to hear that they've had an epiphany.

Sure sparky.

 

[koshergrl]

Not really. Children can't be vaccinated for many of the things that wipe them out until they reach a certain age. So when irresposible and foolish people refuse to vaccinate, they increase the chances that those children get infected and die.

So? Not everybody can be saved. If you have a child that cannot be vaccinated, then keep them as far away from the public as possible. Public policy should not be based upon the wants or needs of the weakest amongst us and people should not be forced to spend their money on the needs of other people.

Spoken like a true anti-human zealot. Vaccinations are one of the few things that there needs to be a public policy about. Vaccines save more lives than bicycle helmets and seat belts and child welfare combined.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Spoken like a true anti-human zealot. Vaccinations are one of the few things that there needs to be a public policy about. Vaccines save more lives than bicycle helmets and seat belts and child welfare combined.

Leftists think that "science" means driving a Prius.

Leftist morons couldn't find Hydrogen on the periodic table....

 

[Flopper]

1 in million. Do you realize the chance of a child dying is about 1 in 12,000. There are a hell of a lot more important things parents should be concerned about than the safety of vaccines.

To evaluate a vaccine, you have to compare today against the time before the vaccine

In 1916, 12,000 people died in the US from measles.
In 2011, there were no deaths in the US due measles.

In 1930, there were over 500 reported deaths from whooping cough
In 2011, there were 10 deaths.

In 1921, there were 15,520 deaths from Diphtheria
Between 2004 and 2008, there were no reported cases of diphtheria

In 1947, there were 6280 cases of Tetanus
Between 2001 and 2008, there were 193.

Of course there were other advances in medical science that have reduce the number of occurrences but the dramatic reduction in occurrences has to be attributed to the vaccine.

Flopper: Are you a physician?

If so, you've seen that person come in wearing oxygen due to their advanced emphysema, but still reeking of tobacco smoke.

With some people, you just can't fix stupid. Mikey is fixated on his belief that everyone in medicine is out to "get" him, yet believes that raw milk will cure cancer. No matter how much evidence anyone provides him, there just isn't any fixing that.

Same thing with Darlene. She is intransigent in her beliefs, and no amount of evidence is going to fix that.

I just hope that any reasonable person who visits these boards will see what we have posted and get their kids vaccinated, so that when they come into my ED with a fever and flu-like symptoms I can simply reassure their parents they will probably be okay.

No, I'm not a physician but I have spent a lot of my life in hospitals. I've seen first in my own family the stupid medical decisions that people make; maybe it would be more accurate to say, the medical decisions that people don't make, such as quitting smoking or putting off getting that chest pain checked out. IMHO, I think the main reason parents don't vaccinate their children is not a fear of serious reactions but rather they don't want to deal with crying kids and the possible minor side effects, so they just don't make a decision.

 

[koshergrl]

Plus they're idiots who think they and their children are immune just by nature of their existence. They think they're somehow *better* than the people who die from things like influenza, they don't believe they could ever spread diptheria, because they are superior specimens.

It's eugenics gone mental.

 

[koshergrl]

Whatever you do, anti-vaccine hysterics, make SURE you don't vaccinate against ebola, when a vaccine comes out.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/23/world/africa/23ebola.html?_r=0

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/24/h...on=Footer&module=MoreInSection&pgtype=article

You do realize it's just a virus, right?

 

[sameech]

Not really. Children can't be vaccinated for many of the things that wipe them out until they reach a certain age. So when irresposible and foolish people refuse to vaccinate, they increase the chances that those children get infected and die.

So? Not everybody can be saved. If you have a child that cannot be vaccinated, then keep them as far away from the public as possible. Public policy should not be based upon the wants or needs of the weakest amongst us and people should not be forced to spend their money on the needs of other people.

Spoken like a true anti-human zealot. Vaccinations are one of the few things that there needs to be a public policy about. Vaccines save more lives than bicycle helmets and seat belts and child welfare combined.

Only zealots use the word zealot. If they are so wonderful, then people shouldn't need to be forced to take them or give them to their children. They will do it on their own. Perhaps if they were free and immigrants had access to quality healthcare, then more people would take advantage of them. As is, if a Christian Scientist doesn't want their kid to have it, so be it. Likewise, flu shots are not pimped like crazy because they work so magically. It is done because they are profitable to push on people.

 

[koshergrl]

What a ridiculous sentiment. "Only zealots use the word zealot" lolol.

Again:

"The influenza epidemic that swept the world in 1918 killed an estimated 50 million people. One fifth of the world's population was attacked by this deadly virus. Within months, it had killed more people than any other illness in recorded history."

The Influenza Epidemic of 1918

The anti-immunization nuts are just that..anti-science, anti-health zealots.

 

[sameech]

What a ridiculous sentiment. "Only zealots use the word zealot" lolol.

Again:

"The influenza epidemic that swept the world in 1918 killed an estimated 50 million people. One fifth of the world's population was attacked by this deadly virus. Within months, it had killed more people than any other illness in recorded history."

The Influenza Epidemic of 1918

The anti-immunization nuts are just that..anti-science, anti-health zealots.

Yes, Ms. Zealot, some Amish guy who doesn't vaccinate his kids and they get the measles is going to kill 1/6th of the country. Get real.

 

[koshergrl]

We aren't talking about a single Amish guy.

We're talking about a LOT of morons who live in the cities, who think that because they haven't died of measles or the flue, measles isn't a threat to anybody else.

 

[koshergrl]

Most of these health-illiterate loons have children that spend their days slobbering all over other children either in school or in the community sandbox in the middle of whatever city they live in.

 

[sameech]

I had mumps as a child. Civilization survived, I didn't get any special Presidential Medals, and I still had to be immunized for it after the fact. These are often not life threatening diseases in most people. MRSA is going to kill us all anyway. No big deal.