To tout universal basic income, presidential candidate puts skin in the game

[the other mike]

You and the moron does know that it will do nothing right? Instead of Dollar tree we will now have $2 dollar trees.

It will run payday loan swindlers out of business too.

FYI, just because YOU can't make good money management decisions and read the fine print doesn't make the people who loan you money and expect you to honor your agreement "swindlers".

 

[MisterBeale]

Explain this for me, please.


Scenario 1:
Caveman A shoots a rabbit with an arrow. On his way back to his cave, he is met by Caveman B, who demands a portion of the rabbit. When Caveman A refuses, Caveman B takes it by force.

What do we call that?

Theft.

Scenario 2:
Caveman A shoots a rabbit with an arrow. On his way back to his cave, he is met by Caveman C, who demands a portion of the rabbit to be given to Caveman B. When Caveman A refuses, Caveman C takes it by force.

Theft.

Scenario 3:
All local cavemen for an alliance to protect against attacks and plunder from other cavemen.

Caveman A shoots a rabbit with an arrow. On his way back to his cave, he is met by Caveman D, who has been appointed as the local governor of the newly-formed alliance. Caveman D, on behalf of the newly-formed alliance, demands from Caveman A a portion of the rabbit to be given to Caveman B. When Caveman A refuses, Caveman D takes it by force.

Taxation? What the Fuck?


Please explain how Caveman D acquired the right to take from Caveman A, when no individual under the newly-formed alliance had the right to take from Caveman A before the alliance was formed.

.

Welcome to the 21st century, when the population is now 7.7 billion . ( lucky for rabbits, some of us are vegetarians) If you want to study cave people, I hear New Guinea has some headhunter tribes who will be more than cooperative for your experiment.

None of this is really relavant to your OP.

I tend to completely agree with Bootney on politics and economics, TAXATION IS THEFT. Using the government to steal from one person to give to another is wrong, the government is evil, but his hypothetical scenarios are completely irrelevant to what Yang is talking about.


Chances are, Bootney pays more in taxes than Amazon and Netflix combined, and it is only going to get worse. In another 15 years, robots will be doing all the work that Amazon has humans doing now.



I was once on my way to my kid's basketball playoff game, heading north, and bam, right there in the middle of nowhere, at the edge of a giant Agra-business fields and a State forest, was a iron-works plant, that cast man-hole covers, tree protectors, drainage grates, etc. for the entire planets cities. It couldn't have been manned by anything more than a dozen people or so, because no more than that lived nearby. It was in the middle of nowhere.

But see, that is the point with Bootney's hypothetical scenario. Folks aren't stealing the labor or profits from other men, they are stealing the profits and labor from drones, AI and robots. Is that unethical? I cannot say.

Is it ethical that giant automated corporations go un-taxed while the poor and middle class are taxed to pay off government bonds? I think that is what is the debate is here.

When Tucker Carlson thinks the guy makes sense, read the comments from the viewers over at Fox news.

He isn't talking about taxing the poor and middle class, nor is he talking about taxing the productive classes. This isn't about Austrian vs. Keynesian Economics anymore. We have an economic shift that is bigger than the industrial revolution coming, and we best be mindful of this;

 

[danielpalos]

Socialism is about equality and equal protection of the law.

When I was growing up socialism was about passing the bong around and sharing a table in the school cafeteria, because capitalism was working just fine in the 60's and 70's before Reaganomics.

we have a better understanding of economics, now; we know capitalism "died in 1929" and that socialism has been bailing out capitalism ever since. socialism is like Palmolive, you are "soaking in it".

The Federal Reserve did capitalism in by your words in 1929. I am not defending capitalism. But you are making socialism your god. The Federal Reserve caused the Depression. After the war the auto industry and the steel industry in a less way held our nation by its balls as the employees unions were just as bad as the owners of companies before it. The result is ghetto cities and communities and individuals who worked for those industries getting great checks and benefits living somewhere else. In most other cities the manufacturing slowly died.

are you on the right wing? our form of Socialism was Ordained and Established to be limited by our Constitution.

 

[danielpalos]

You sound like a typical leftist moron, spouting buzzwords like you expect me to be worried about your opinion.

View attachment 254064

View attachment 254071

should the Poor have any Cause to care how the richest make their money as long as the Poorest are not in poverty for it and getting the blame for allegedly being lazy.

 

[MisterBeale]

You and the moron does know that it will do nothing right? Instead of Dollar tree we will now have $2 dollar trees.

It will run payday loan swindlers out of business too.

FYI, just because YOU can't make good money management decisions and read the fine print doesn't make the people who loan you money and expect you to honor your agreement "swindlers".

No one forces you to take out a payday loan. Only an idiot takes one out. You shouldn't watch this guy for information, he is a dumb propagandist.

 

[MisterBeale]

In spite of the predictable cackling and giggling, it's a pretty good interview.

Andrew Yang wants Universal Basic Income because we are experiencing the greatest technological shift the world has ever seen. By 2015, automation had already destroyed four million manufacturing jobs, and the smartest people in the world now predict that a third of all working Americans will lose their job to automation in the next 12 years. Our current policies are not equipped to handle this crisis. Even our most forward-thinking politicians are unprepared.

As technology improves, workers will be able to stop doing the most dangerous, repetitive, and boring jobs. This should excite us, but if Americans have no source of income—no ability to pay for groceries, buy homes, save for education, or start families with confidence—then the future could be very dark. Our labor participation rate now is only 62.7% – lower than it has been in decades, with 1 out of 5 working-age men currently out of the workforce. This will get much worse as self-driving cars and other technologies come online.

Andrew’s version of UBI—funded by a simple Value Added Tax—would guarantee that all Americans benefit from automation, not just big companies. UBI would provide money to cover the basics for Americans while enabling us to look for a better job, start our own business, go back to school, take care of our loved ones or work towards our next opportunity.
https://www.yang2020.com/what-is-ubi/

You and the moron does know that it will do nothing right? Instead of Dollar tree we will now have $2 dollar trees.

See, that is what I am not so sure of.

With AI and automation, things seem really unpredictable.

 

[The Original Tree]

We already spent $21 Trillion fighting Poverty and all it did was create a Nation Of Lazy Welfare Mooches and a flood of illegals coming in here to mooch more.

Who can live on a thousand bucks a month? Do these families work? Do they receive any government assist at all? Around here, rent in a shit ass apartment in south Houston will run close to a thousand a month. Average electric bill is abou $150. As for food, single I can do eating on about $80 bucks a month. Not so with a family, as you have to feed children real food, so that will be about $500 a month, more for normal people. So then, what is $1000 bucks a month in the scheme of things?

He explains in more detail in the OP interview.

A universal basic income, which Yang calls “The Freedom Dividend,” would help alleviate poverty and address the disruption from AI and automation, according to his campaign website.

“This would enable all Americans to pay their bills, educate themselves, start businesses, be more creative, stay healthy, relocate for work, spend time with their children, take care of loved ones, and have a real stake in the future,” according to the website.

Universal basic income is not a new idea, and neither are concerns about automation displacing large numbers of workers.

In 2016, startup accelerator Y Combinator and its president Sam Altman gave $1,500 a month to 100 Oakland families. The following year, the company announced it was expanding that test to 3,000 people — 1,000 will get $1,000 a month, and the rest will get $50.

On a website explaining the study, the company says, “Basic income is a bold idea to end poverty, improve economic security, and smooth the transition as technological advances and economic dynamics reshape the nature of work.”

 

[MisterBeale]

We already spent $21 Trillion fighting Poverty and all it did was create a Nation Of Lazy Welfare Mooches and a flood of illegals coming in here to mooch more.

Who can live on a thousand bucks a month? Do these families work? Do they receive any government assist at all? Around here, rent in a shit ass apartment in south Houston will run close to a thousand a month. Average electric bill is abou $150. As for food, single I can do eating on about $80 bucks a month. Not so with a family, as you have to feed children real food, so that will be about $500 a month, more for normal people. So then, what is $1000 bucks a month in the scheme of things?

He explains in more detail in the OP interview.

A universal basic income, which Yang calls “The Freedom Dividend,” would help alleviate poverty and address the disruption from AI and automation, according to his campaign website.

“This would enable all Americans to pay their bills, educate themselves, start businesses, be more creative, stay healthy, relocate for work, spend time with their children, take care of loved ones, and have a real stake in the future,” according to the website.

Universal basic income is not a new idea, and neither are concerns about automation displacing large numbers of workers.

In 2016, startup accelerator Y Combinator and its president Sam Altman gave $1,500 a month to 100 Oakland families. The following year, the company announced it was expanding that test to 3,000 people — 1,000 will get $1,000 a month, and the rest will get $50.

On a website explaining the study, the company says, “Basic income is a bold idea to end poverty, improve economic security, and smooth the transition as technological advances and economic dynamics reshape the nature of work.”

Agreed.

However, we are talking about something entirely new now. We are talking about techtonic shifts in the economy.

Let's say we leave Yang's ideas entirely off the table for a moment, okay, pretend he doesn't exist.

Now, every job in the new economy that you can think of, every job that can be done that doesn't require at least a M.A., M.S. or Phd. will be done by AI or a Robot. That is a lot of High School grads with nothing to do, naked, homeless, and starving.

What do you suggest we do with everyone?. If you do not take up Yang's ideas in some form or another, eventually, your choices are;

Liquidate everyone a la Hitler and Stalin,

Have everyone live in tent cities and wait for them to riot a la Steinbeck,shit, even robots are picking the fruits and veggies now.. . . .

or. . .

well, actually, that just about sums it up, as the economy will disintegrate.

I'm open to ideas.

It really IS hard to run an economy with no jobs, you know?

What do you suggest as an alternative?

 

[The Original Tree]

I work in tech.

The idea that we are going to use AI
And Automation for everything is a fairy tail.

But lets buy your fairy tale.

Why in the Hell would we continue to import idiots with no skills in to this country from Latin America and then have to support them 100%?

How about take immigration down to 0.0 then?

We already spent $21 Trillion fighting Poverty and all it did was create a Nation Of Lazy Welfare Mooches and a flood of illegals coming in here to mooch more.

Who can live on a thousand bucks a month? Do these families work? Do they receive any government assist at all? Around here, rent in a shit ass apartment in south Houston will run close to a thousand a month. Average electric bill is abou $150. As for food, single I can do eating on about $80 bucks a month. Not so with a family, as you have to feed children real food, so that will be about $500 a month, more for normal people. So then, what is $1000 bucks a month in the scheme of things?

He explains in more detail in the OP interview.

A universal basic income, which Yang calls “The Freedom Dividend,” would help alleviate poverty and address the disruption from AI and automation, according to his campaign website.

“This would enable all Americans to pay their bills, educate themselves, start businesses, be more creative, stay healthy, relocate for work, spend time with their children, take care of loved ones, and have a real stake in the future,” according to the website.

Universal basic income is not a new idea, and neither are concerns about automation displacing large numbers of workers.

In 2016, startup accelerator Y Combinator and its president Sam Altman gave $1,500 a month to 100 Oakland families. The following year, the company announced it was expanding that test to 3,000 people — 1,000 will get $1,000 a month, and the rest will get $50.

On a website explaining the study, the company says, “Basic income is a bold idea to end poverty, improve economic security, and smooth the transition as technological advances and economic dynamics reshape the nature of work.”

Agreed.

However, we are talking about something entirely new now. We are talking about techtonic shifts in the economy.

Let's say we leave Yang's ideas entirely off the table for a moment, okay, pretend he doesn't exist.

Now, every job in the new economy that you can think of, every job that can be done that doesn't require at least a M.A., M.S. or Phd. will be done by AI or a Robot. That is a lot of High School grads with nothing to do, naked, homeless, and starving.

What do you suggest we do with everyone?. If you do not take up Yang's ideas in some form or another, eventually, your choices are;

Liquidate everyone a la Hitler and Stalin,

Have everyone live in tent cities and wait for them to riot a la Steinbeck,shit, even robots are picking the fruits and veggies now.. . . .

or. . .

well, actually, that just about sums it up, as the economy will disintegrate.

I'm open to ideas.

It really IS hard to run an economy with no jobs, you know?

What do you suggest as an alternative?

 

[MisterBeale]

I work in tech.

The idea that we are going to use AI
And Automation for everything is a fairy tail.

But lets buy your fairy tale.

Why in the Hell would we continue to import idiot with no skills in to this country and then have to support them 100%?

How about take immigration down to 0.0 then?

We already spent $21 Trillion fighting Poverty and all it did was create a Nation Of Lazy Welfare Mooches and a flood of illegals coming in here to mooch more.

Who can live on a thousand bucks a month? Do these families work? Do they receive any government assist at all? Around here, rent in a shit ass apartment in south Houston will run close to a thousand a month. Average electric bill is abou $150. As for food, single I can do eating on about $80 bucks a month. Not so with a family, as you have to feed children real food, so that will be about $500 a month, more for normal people. So then, what is $1000 bucks a month in the scheme of things?

He explains in more detail in the OP interview.

A universal basic income, which Yang calls “The Freedom Dividend,” would help alleviate poverty and address the disruption from AI and automation, according to his campaign website.

“This would enable all Americans to pay their bills, educate themselves, start businesses, be more creative, stay healthy, relocate for work, spend time with their children, take care of loved ones, and have a real stake in the future,” according to the website.

Universal basic income is not a new idea, and neither are concerns about automation displacing large numbers of workers.

In 2016, startup accelerator Y Combinator and its president Sam Altman gave $1,500 a month to 100 Oakland families. The following year, the company announced it was expanding that test to 3,000 people — 1,000 will get $1,000 a month, and the rest will get $50.

On a website explaining the study, the company says, “Basic income is a bold idea to end poverty, improve economic security, and smooth the transition as technological advances and economic dynamics reshape the nature of work.”

Agreed.

However, we are talking about something entirely new now. We are talking about techtonic shifts in the economy.

Let's say we leave Yang's ideas entirely off the table for a moment, okay, pretend he doesn't exist.

Now, every job in the new economy that you can think of, every job that can be done that doesn't require at least a M.A., M.S. or Phd. will be done by AI or a Robot. That is a lot of High School grads with nothing to do, naked, homeless, and starving.

What do you suggest we do with everyone?. If you do not take up Yang's ideas in some form or another, eventually, your choices are;

Liquidate everyone a la Hitler and Stalin,

Have everyone live in tent cities and wait for them to riot a la Steinbeck,shit, even robots are picking the fruits and veggies now.. . . .

or. . .

well, actually, that just about sums it up, as the economy will disintegrate.

I'm open to ideas.

It really IS hard to run an economy with no jobs, you know?

What do you suggest as an alternative?

You might not believe it by today's standards, but the state of the art changes rapidly.

If you compare a 1980's pc to a 2000's pc, you get the idea. Of course it seems unimaginable, but it is coming.

As to why do the elites want to keep allowing a constant inflow of immigration? They want to do away with borders, they always have. They want to get rid of the US/Canadian border as well. If they can make everyone have roughly the same standard of living, and create a sympathetic cultural identity, it makes creating a political union and a super state easier. They have ALWAYS wanted this, and have never hidden their intentions on this. It is the next step to a world super state.

The Canadian Dollar and Peso are as untenable as the US dollar, the best way to cover the corruption of the elites is to replace it with a new currency.

AI and Robots will help to achieve this vision, make no mistake.

North American Union - Wikipedia

Building a North American Community

 

[MisterBeale]

But I agree, we won't be able to use automation and tech for EVERYTHING. 10% of the population will still need to make sure things run smoothly.

But what do you do with a population that has only 10% workforce participation?

Seriously?

 

[danielpalos]

We already spent $21 Trillion fighting Poverty and all it did was create a Nation Of Lazy Welfare Mooches and a flood of illegals coming in here to mooch more.

Who can live on a thousand bucks a month? Do these families work? Do they receive any government assist at all? Around here, rent in a shit ass apartment in south Houston will run close to a thousand a month. Average electric bill is abou $150. As for food, single I can do eating on about $80 bucks a month. Not so with a family, as you have to feed children real food, so that will be about $500 a month, more for normal people. So then, what is $1000 bucks a month in the scheme of things?

He explains in more detail in the OP interview.

A universal basic income, which Yang calls “The Freedom Dividend,” would help alleviate poverty and address the disruption from AI and automation, according to his campaign website.

“This would enable all Americans to pay their bills, educate themselves, start businesses, be more creative, stay healthy, relocate for work, spend time with their children, take care of loved ones, and have a real stake in the future,” according to the website.

Universal basic income is not a new idea, and neither are concerns about automation displacing large numbers of workers.

In 2016, startup accelerator Y Combinator and its president Sam Altman gave $1,500 a month to 100 Oakland families. The following year, the company announced it was expanding that test to 3,000 people — 1,000 will get $1,000 a month, and the rest will get $50.

On a website explaining the study, the company says, “Basic income is a bold idea to end poverty, improve economic security, and smooth the transition as technological advances and economic dynamics reshape the nature of work.”

lousy capitalists lose money on public policies, good capitalists don't.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Where is this free money coming from?

There was a link in the post right before yours, and the post itself said how UBI would be paid for.

Here:


What is Universal Basic Income? - Andrew Yang for President

It would be easier than you might think. Andrew proposes funding UBI by consolidating some welfare programs and implementing a Value-Added Tax (VAT) of 10%. Current welfare and social program beneficiaries would be given a choice between their current benefits or $1,000 cash unconditionally – most would prefer cash with no restriction.

A Value-Added Tax (VAT) is a tax on the production of goods or services a business produces. It is a fair tax and it makes it much harder for large corporations, who are experts at hiding profits and income, to avoid paying their fair share. A VAT is nothing new. 160 out of 193 countries in the world already have a Value-Added Tax or something similar, including all of Europe which has an average VAT of 20 percent.

The means to pay for a Universal Basic Income will come from 4 sources:

1. Current spending. We currently spend between $500 and $600 billion a year on welfare programs, food stamps, disability and the like. This reduces the cost of Universal Basic Income because people already receiving benefits would have a choice but would be ineligible to receive the full $1,000 in addition to current benefits.

2. A VAT. Our economy is now incredibly vast at $19 trillion, up $4 trillion in the last 10 years alone. A VAT at half the European level would generate $800 billion in new revenue. A VAT will become more and more important as technology improves because you cannot collect income tax from robots or software.

3. New revenue. Putting money into the hands of American consumers would grow the economy. The Roosevelt Institute projected that the economy would grow by approximately $2.5 trillion and create 4.6 million new jobs. This would generate approximately $500 – 600 billion in new revenue from economic growth and activity.

4. We currently spend over one trillion dollars on health care, incarceration, homelessness services and the like. We would save $100 – 200 billion as people would take better care of themselves and avoid the emergency room, jail, and the street and would generally be more functional. Universal Basic Income would pay for itself by helping people avoid our institutions, which is when our costs shoot up. Some studies have shown that $1 to a poor parent will result in as much as $7 in cost-savings and economic growth.

I would prefer no welfare at all, but that ship has sailed, so if we must have it, I am seeing the reasoning behind it, as long as it is a replacement, not an addition.

.

 

[The Original Tree]

Deport 25 Million illegals and you won’t have to even think about that.

But I agree, we won't be able to use automation and tech for EVERYTHING. 10% of the population will still need to make sure things run smoothly.

But what do you do with a population that has only 10% workforce participation?

Seriously?

 

[hadit]

The only "solution" you've presented to anything is to pay you $15/hr to stay in your mom's basement and smoke pot all day, and that's not a solution to anything.

The UBI would actually create jobs so that he can work and buy his own basement
to smoke pot in on the weekends.

He doesn't want to work.

 

[hadit]

Explain this for me, please.


Scenario 1:
Caveman A shoots a rabbit with an arrow. On his way back to his cave, he is met by Caveman B, who demands a portion of the rabbit. When Caveman A refuses, Caveman B takes it by force.

What do we call that?

Theft.

Scenario 2:
Caveman A shoots a rabbit with an arrow. On his way back to his cave, he is met by Caveman C, who demands a portion of the rabbit to be given to Caveman B. When Caveman A refuses, Caveman C takes it by force.

Theft.

Scenario 3:
All local cavemen for an alliance to protect against attacks and plunder from other cavemen.

Caveman A shoots a rabbit with an arrow. On his way back to his cave, he is met by Caveman D, who has been appointed as the local governor of the newly-formed alliance. Caveman D, on behalf of the newly-formed alliance, demands from Caveman A a portion of the rabbit to be given to Caveman B. When Caveman A refuses, Caveman D takes it by force.

Taxation? What the Fuck?


Please explain how Caveman D acquired the right to take from Caveman A, when no individual under the newly-formed alliance had the right to take from Caveman A before the alliance was formed.

.

Socialism is about equality and equal protection of the law, not lousy capitalism. You merely need better solutions at lower cost.

Present some.

I have. Solving simple poverty by solving for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment can only improve the efficiency of our economy by increasing market participation. The private sector can only benefit with increased market participation.

The only "solution" you've presented to anything is to pay you $15/hr to stay in your mom's basement and smoke pot all day, and that's not a solution to anything.

A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage is the cost of living adjustment for actually working. A fourteen dollar an hour equivalent is simply compensation for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment for the ready reserve Labor force.

Except you don't want to work. Stop cloaking that in employment rhetoric.

 

[hadit]

Our welfare clause is General and that means, solving for simple poverty. There is no provision for excuses in the federal doctrine.

You never learn, ever.

 

[the other mike]

Andrew Yang: "We need to build a trickle-up economy" as automation, artificial intelligence change American workplace

 

[MisterBeale]

 

[MisterBeale]

"There is not enough to go around! Now, that being said.. Let's hurry up and consume as much as possible, indefinitely.."