To separate the USA and Europe. Can that be a good idea?

[Independent thinker]

I find it rather sad that we are currently allowing ourselves to be driven apart like this. Every clear-thinking European is aware that Western Europe and the USA fundamentally share the same values. It's what's written in the preamble to the US Constitution. And I can already imagine who on the world stage doesn't like that: the autocratic states. Democracy, freedom, justice—leaders like those in China or Russia naturally don't like those. In my opinion, we mustn't do these countries the favor...

United States–European Union relations - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

What's said was Europe bilking billions and billions of dollars from us, using us as their personal piggy bank.

 

[DGS49]

Here's the thing: We are all part of NATO. Accordingly, if any NATO country is attacked, all NATO members are bound to fight for the attacked country including and especially the U.S.

But the war in Ukraine is a EUROPEAN thing. It is not a NATO thing. No NATO country has been attacked or credibly threatened. For this reason, many Americans believe that the conflict is one that Europe should resolve and pay for, while the U.S. just helps to facilitate the resolution.

Our Beloved President seems to take that view. We are willing to sell military stuff to Ukraine, not to provide such stuff. And the European countries agree. They have recently announced loans to Ukraine of almost a hundred billion US$.

 

[Alex_northern_germany]

Here's the thing: We are all part of NATO. Accordingly, if any NATO country is attacked, all NATO members are bound to fight for the attacked country including and especially the U.S.

But the war in Ukraine is a EUROPEAN thing. It is not a NATO thing. No NATO country has been attacked or credibly threatened. For this reason, many Americans believe that the conflict is one that Europe should resolve and pay for, while the U.S. just helps to facilitate the resolution.

Our Beloved President seems to take that view. We are willing to sell military stuff to Ukraine, not to provide such stuff. And the European countries agree. They have recently announced loans to Ukraine of almost a hundred billion US$.

That's correct. The conflict in Ukraine has nothing to do with NATO, and we shouldn't be led to believe otherwise. Like any normal person, I want the war to end.

 

[Dekster]

I find it rather sad that we are currently allowing ourselves to be driven apart like this. Every clear-thinking European is aware that Western Europe and the USA fundamentally share the same values. It's what's written in the preamble to the US Constitution. And I can already imagine who on the world stage doesn't like that: the autocratic states. Democracy, freedom, justice—leaders like those in China or Russia naturally don't like those. In my opinion, we mustn't do these countries the favor...

United States–European Union relations - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I am sure the fault is all on the American side in your thinking....

 

[Seymour Flops]

The problem in answering your question from the American perspective is twofold:

There is no one set of American values. Instead we have two basic sets of values, with one set thriving to be in lockstep, while the other set prides itself on not being ideological, but practical. Therefore there is one set of opinions that form one "side" and an almost infinite set of opinions that form the other side.

The other is that one of those sides - the inflexible side in lockstep with the ideology - are practically European themselves. Their ideology differs from that of Europe only when Europe shows common sense such as putting the brakes on childhood mutilation for "gender affirmation," or slowing down Islamic immigration.

 

[kyzr]

That's correct. The conflict in Ukraine has nothing to do with NATO, and we shouldn't be led to believe otherwise. Like any normal person, I want the war to end.

Not exactly. NATO's primary adversary is Russia. Ukraine is fighting Russia. The more we strengthen Ukraine, the more we weaken Russia, a very good strategic use of resources.
I want the war to end, but with the boundaries about where they were in 2014.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Not exactly. NATO's primary adversary is Russia. Ukraine is fighting Russia. The more we strengthen Ukraine, the more we weaken Russia, a very good strategic use of resources.
I want the war to end, but with the boundaries about where they were in 2014.

Is there an ethical consideration, here? About the lives that are being lost in a war that Ukraine cannot win?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

In order to protect western civilization, we need to stop teaching our children that it is the source of all the world's ills.

 

[kyzr]

Is there an ethical consideration, here? About the lives that are being lost in a way that Ukraine cannot win?

That is Ukraine's decision to make. With adequate military support Ukraine is defending their country, for 4-years now. Don't tell them they cannot win. Every day they are not conquered by Russia is a win. Sooner or later Russia will see that the sanctions, a failing economy, and loss of manpower, is simply not worth the potential gain.