Tis the season?

[Merlin1047]

Apparently 'tis the season for idiotic lib philosphies to run rampant.


http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41700
Macy's stores boycotted for replacing 'Christmas'
Effort punishes 'Miracle on 34th Street' icon, claims chain offending millions of customers

----------------------------------------------------------------------

1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com

Immortalized in a 1947 Christmas movie classic, Macy's is now the focus of a boycott campaign protesting the department-store chain's replacement of "Merry Christmas" with politically correct greetings.


1947 Christmas classic "Miracle on 34th Street" featured Macy's department store

A group called the Committee to Save Merry Christmas says Macy's and its umbrella Federated Department Stores have ignored several requests that "Merry Christmas" signs be returned and that its advertising acknowledge the time-honored phrase.

"It's the height of hypocrisy for a corporation to make tens of millions of dollars selling Christmas presents, yet coldly refuse to acknowledge Christmas," said the group's chairman, Manuel Zamorano, in a statement. "What's the holiday all about, anyway? Politically correct phases like 'Seasons Greetings' and 'Happy Holidays' are no substitute for the real thing."

 

[Thornton]

Wow, Merlin, I don't get it.

You think replacing Merry Christmas with Happy Holidays is fine?

But you think not wanting to be bothered with bell ringers at every store begging for money "doesn't make sense." I'm not meaning to offend, I'm really confused. Help me out here.

 

[Merlin1047]

Wow, Merlin, I don't get it.

You think replacing Merry Christmas with Happy Holidays is fine?

But you think not wanting to be bothered with bell ringers at every store begging for money "doesn't make sense." I'm not meaning to offend, I'm really confused. Help me out here.

I only posted the lead-in to the article to save space and provided a link. If you read the entire article, it will probably make more sense to you. My comment was directed at Macy's policy to ban the phrase "Merry Christmas" in favor of "happy holidays".

I didn't have a lot of time when I posted this, so I kept my comment short. I should have specified that it was directed at Macy's, not the group which is protesting.

 

[Thornton]

I only posted the lead-in to the article to save space and provided a link. If you read the entire article, it will probably make more sense to you. My comment was directed at Macy's policy to ban the phrase "Merry Christmas" in favor of "happy holidays".

I didn't have a lot of time when I posted this, so I kept my comment short. I should have specified that it was directed at Macy's, not the group which is protesting.

OMG! I did misunderstand you.

Well I guess in this case all the Spiritualist that are celebating 12/21 and the celtic season, the Jews that are celebrating hanaka, and the ME religions that are celebrating the one they celebrate in December ought to all boycot stores that only acknowledge the christian celebratin of Christmas. Spiritualist, Pagans, Jews, and ME religions maybe should insist that that instead of a politically correct Happy Holidays that covers EVERYONE with good wishes, each individual holiday celebrated this month should be addressed.

WHAT ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE THAT DON'T THINK AND BELIEVE LIKE YOU?

Do you or do you not believe that in this country we should have freedom of religion?

 

[Merlin1047]

WHAT ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE THAT DON'T THINK AND BELIEVE LIKE YOU?

Do you or do you not believe that in this country we should have freedom of religion?

This is the CHRISTMAS season. I don't care if you're an atheist, a christian, or a druid - that doesn't change the fact that on Dec 25, christians are celebrating the birth of Christ.

Is it too much to ask all those who do not believe in Christ to simply exercise a little bit of the same tolerance you expect me to have for everyone else? Does an atheist or a Bhuddist find the phrase "Merry Christmas" so reprehensible that it keeps them up nights? Of course not. All that is going on here is another attempt by the PC and INTOLERANT left to attack Christianity.

And to answer your other question, hell yes, I believe in freedom of religion. You don't see me out there demanding that the Jews take the Menorah out of their windows. If a Jew came up to me and said "Happy Honnuka", I wouldn't pitch a fit, because it doesn't offend me. I am capable of respecting the beliefs of others even if I don't share them.

So let me ask you the same question - why don't you believe in freedom of religion? It appears to me that based on the tone I perceive in your post that you feel that saying "Merry Christmas" should not be allowed. You seem to confuse freedom OF religion with freedom FROM religion. The fact is you live in a nation where 85 percent of the populace identifies themselves as Christians. So where is OUR freedom to practice our religion as we see fit? Why is it that I have to be tolerant of everyone else's views, but if I'm a Christian, no one has to tolerate mine?

Are we all supposed to hide in the closet to wish each other Merry Christmas? Or maybe we can develop a secret handshake. Heaven forbid that we offend anyone.

 

[TheEnemyWithin]

WHAT ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE THAT DON'T THINK AND BELIEVE LIKE YOU?

Do you or do you not believe that in this country we should have freedom of religion?

Well, of couse I believe in freedom of religion, but don't screw around with the real meaning of Christmas!!! It's when we celebrate Jesus' birth, period. If other people don't think and believe like we do, tough cookies. Thorton, I dare you to go to a Jewish family celebrating Hannakah and shout them down because, after all, you don't believe like they do. And while you're at it, be sure to tease a few Muslims fasting for Ramadan, ok?? You don't believe like them either do you??

Get the hell off of our backs, athiests!!! We Christians have just as much right to exist in this country as the rest do. Don't stand up there and tell us not to "impose our beliefs" when you, the same liberals, also give the pass when Islam is indoctrinated into our kids in their public schools. Losers!!

P.S. Note to Judge Moore: I have a way you can keep the Ten Commandments monument in the courthouse. Just have a verse from the Koran carved on it and presto, it gets to stay and the ACLU is happy.

 

[Merlin]

Maybe, just maybe, there is still a chance to start taking back some rights.

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationw...,0,4190167.story?coll=sns-ap-nation-headlines

Ala. Judge Wears Ten Commandments on Robe

By BOB JOHNSON
Associated Press Writer

December 15, 2004, 9:51 AM EST


MONTGOMERY, Ala. -- A judge refused to delay a trial Tuesday when an attorney objected to his wearing a judicial robe with the Ten Commandments embroidered on the front in gold.

Circuit Judge Ashley McKathan showed up Monday at his Covington County courtroom in southern Alabama wearing the robe. Attorneys who try cases at the courthouse said they had not seen him wearing it before. The commandments were described as being big enough to read by anyone near the judge.

Attorney Riley Powell, defending a client charged with DUI, filed a motion objecting to the robe and asking that the case be continued. He said McKathan denied both motions.

"I feel this creates a distraction that affects my client," Powell said.

McKathan told The Associated Press that he believes the Ten Commandments represent the truth "and you can't divorce the law from the truth. ... The Ten Commandments can help a judge know the difference between right and wrong."

He said he doesn't believe the commandments on his robe would have an adverse effect on jurors.

"I had a choice of several sizes of letters. I purposely chose a size that would not be in anybody's face," he said.

The case raised comparisons to former Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore, who was removed from office in 2003 for refusing to remove a Ten Commandments monument from the rotunda of the Alabama Judicial Building in Montgomery.

Moore said Tuesday he supports McKathan's decision to wear the Ten Commandments robe.

"I applaud Judge McKathan. It is time for our judiciary to recognize the moral basis of our law," Moore said.

Powell said if he loses his case, he expects the judge's wearing of the Ten Commandments robe to be part of an appeal.

 

[MissileMan]

Maybe, just maybe, there is still a chance to start taking back some rights.

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationw...,0,4190167.story?coll=sns-ap-nation-headlines

Ala. Judge Wears Ten Commandments on Robe

By BOB JOHNSON
Associated Press Writer

December 15, 2004, 9:51 AM EST


MONTGOMERY, Ala. -- A judge refused to delay a trial Tuesday when an attorney objected to his wearing a judicial robe with the Ten Commandments embroidered on the front in gold.

Circuit Judge Ashley McKathan showed up Monday at his Covington County courtroom in southern Alabama wearing the robe. Attorneys who try cases at the courthouse said they had not seen him wearing it before. The commandments were described as being big enough to read by anyone near the judge.

Attorney Riley Powell, defending a client charged with DUI, filed a motion objecting to the robe and asking that the case be continued. He said McKathan denied both motions.

"I feel this creates a distraction that affects my client," Powell said.

McKathan told The Associated Press that he believes the Ten Commandments represent the truth "and you can't divorce the law from the truth. ... The Ten Commandments can help a judge know the difference between right and wrong."

He said he doesn't believe the commandments on his robe would have an adverse effect on jurors.

"I had a choice of several sizes of letters. I purposely chose a size that would not be in anybody's face," he said.

The case raised comparisons to former Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore, who was removed from office in 2003 for refusing to remove a Ten Commandments monument from the rotunda of the Alabama Judicial Building in Montgomery.

Moore said Tuesday he supports McKathan's decision to wear the Ten Commandments robe.

"I applaud Judge McKathan. It is time for our judiciary to recognize the moral basis of our law," Moore said.

Powell said if he loses his case, he expects the judge's wearing of the Ten Commandments robe to be part of an appeal.

I'm an advocate of freedom of expression, but it would seem to me that the judge's robe, under certain circumstances, might be inappropriate. Let's say for instance, that this judge is called on to hear a civil case that involves an atheist suing a christian. A robe like that would raise questions about his impartiality. I would also say that if this judge needs to look down at his robe like a kid in school referring to cheat notes in order to differentiate between right and wrong, he needs to find another line of work. I would expect a sitting judge to know right from wrong without having to check his notes.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Since like 96% of Americans celebrate Christmas, it's a pretty big deal in our country. If the minority doesn't like it, tough! Nobody is stopping atheists from celebrating whatever it is they celebrate. The pagans can celebrate solstice day if they want to. Also, Macy's can stop celebrating Christmas if they like - they have the right - but we, the public, can also stop shopping for our Christmas gifts at Macy's too.

I'm an advocate of freedom of expression, but it would seem to me that the judge's robe, under certain circumstances, might be inappropriate. Let's say for instance, that this judge is called on to hear a civil case that involves an atheist suing a christian. A robe like that would raise questions about his impartiality. I would also say that if this judge needs to look down at his robe like a kid in school referring to cheat notes in order to differentiate between right and wrong, he needs to find another line of work. I would expect a sitting judge to know right from wrong without having to check his notes.

Regarding an atheist suing a Christian: a judge should always be impartial in his decisions. (please take note that Christian is supposed to be capitalized)

If a black sued a white: would this also be cause for discrimination? Would the judge have to be yellow to make the judgement fair.

A judge wearing the 10 Commandments on his robe is no different than a judge with the 10 Commandments in his head.

 

[Merlin]

I'm an advocate of freedom of expression, but it would seem to me that the judge's robe, under certain circumstances, might be inappropriate. Let's say for instance, that this judge is called on to hear a civil case that involves an atheist suing a christian. A robe like that would raise questions about his impartiality. I would also say that if this judge needs to look down at his robe like a kid in school referring to cheat notes in order to differentiate between right and wrong, he needs to find another line of work. I would expect a sitting judge to know right from wrong without having to check his notes.

Could you possibly reverse that where a Christian suing a atheist can feel discriminated against by an atheist judge? After all, if it is looked at one way, it has got to be looked at the other way also, or that would be discrimination. Are we to assume that a judge not wearing a robe with the 10 Commandments written on it is an atheist? I'm sure that if all the bickering and whining would stop and the A.C.L.U. was treated like the hate group it is, everything would smooth out and our country could re-unite. I think the word "Tolerance" of others needs is the key word that all people need to strive for.

 

[Thornton]

Merlin1047 wrote:

This is the CHRISTMAS season. I don't care if you're an atheist, a christian, or a druid - that doesn't change the fact that on Dec 25, christians are celebrating the birth of Christ.

There it is. The exact thing I was saying. It is not just the Christmas season and several other religions are celebrating and buying gifts now too for those celebrations.

Im point was that HAPPY HOLIDAYS gives respect and honor to all religions covering their main holiday in December. Not just one. I merely suggested Macy's was being nice to all faiths. Sorry that offends you as a christian. It really shouldn't.

Screaming Eagle wrote:

Since like 96% of Americans celebrate Christmas, it's a pretty big deal in our country. If the minority doesn't like it, tough! Nobody is stopping atheists from celebrating whatever it is they celebrate. The pagans can celebrate solstice day if they want to. Also, Macy's can stop celebrating Christmas if they like - they have the right - but we, the public, can also stop shopping for our Christmas gifts at Macy's too.

This is the attitude that blows my mind in a country based on freedom of religion. Macy's is getting all this crap and so am I because we both think a polite HAPPY HOLIDAYS covers all faiths. Makes me wonder why christians are so offended by the greeting Happy Holidays. Hhhhhmmm???

 

[Thornton]

Evil Within Wrote:

Well, of couse I believe in freedom of religion, but don't screw around with the real meaning of Christmas!!! It's when we celebrate Jesus' birth, period. If other people don't think and believe like we do, tough cookies. Thorton, I dare you to go to a Jewish family celebrating Hannakah and shout them down because, after all, you don't believe like they do. And while you're at it, be sure to tease a few Muslims fasting for Ramadan, ok?? You don't believe like them either do you??

Yeah 'tough cookies.' Very christian of you to say. LMAO. You dare me? Why would I do that to any Jews or Muslims? I'm not shouting anyone down, dude.
I merely said that Happy Holidays being said respects all religions. Maybe you could cover it better if you celebrated christmas in the month Jesus was born, March, instead of continuing to follow the Jew tradition of Hannakah and the Muslims tradition of Ramaden in a month he wasn't even born in. You did know why it was decided to be celebrated in the WRONG month, don't you? hehehe

Get the hell off of our backs, athiests!!! We Christians have just as much right to exist in this country as the rest do. Don't stand up there and tell us not to "impose our beliefs" when you, the same liberals, also give the pass when Islam is indoctrinated into our kids in their public schools. Losers!!

Athiests? Cute, now you're calling me names that I'm not, and in the next sentence saying 'We Christians.' This because I suggested that Happy Holidays respected all faiths in the month they celebrate it. Oh and I'm not a liberal neither. Wrong again. Uuuummm, I didn't give a pass to anyone to indoctrinate Islam into our schools. I think all religion belongs at home or in church. Yes for the same reason I think Happy Holidays is a good idea so everyone is respected. You assume far too much too often, Evil.

As a spiritualist, I say to you, Blessings in the name of the gods, and may you prosper and be healthy in the year to come. Reflect this week on the year passed and examine your innner man to know how you may grow spiritually from your errors and achievements. HAPPY HOLIDAYS EVERYONE!

 

[Bonnie]

Here's what I do. when the clerk says" Happy Holidays "to me I say and" Merry Christmas" to you as well.

Christmas IS the celebration of the birth of Christ, not anything else. Kwanza, is not Christmas, The winter solstice is not Christmas, Hannakah is not Christmas. How about the store clerks say Merry Christmas and Happy Holdiays????? That covers everything!

 

[ScreamingEagle]

I think religion belongs at home, at church, at work, in school, and in all public places. Religious expression is a right and a freedom and should not be forced underground or curtailed. Just don't force me to believe your religion and I won't force you to believe mine. Let everybody respect each others rights. Let me express my religion and you can express yours. Freely. According to the U.S. Constitution.

Merry Christmas to all and a Happy Holiday Season to you as well!

 

[Trigg]

Merlin1047 wrote:

This is the CHRISTMAS season. I don't care if you're an atheist, a christian, or a druid - that doesn't change the fact that on Dec 25, christians are celebrating the birth of Christ.

There it is. The exact thing I was saying. It is not just the Christmas season and several other religions are celebrating and buying gifts now too for those celebrations.

Im point was that HAPPY HOLIDAYS gives respect and honor to all religions covering their main holiday in December. Not just one. I merely suggested Macy's was being nice to all faiths. Sorry that offends you as a christian. It really shouldn't.

The problem are the stores and schools that have signs saying happy Hannukke with a manorah, but don't allow christmas songs or a nativity. There have been many cases of the ACLU suing because of a nativity on state property, but allowing the manorah stating it isn't religious which of course it is.
Christmas is about the birth of Jesus. Stores and some schools want to take the religion out of it and make it about Santa. People are getting sick of it.

 

[Gem]

Thornton Wrote:

This is the attitude that blows my mind in a country based on freedom of religion. Macy's is getting all this crap and so am I because we both think a polite HAPPY HOLIDAYS covers all faiths. Makes me wonder why christians are so offended by the greeting Happy Holidays. Hhhhhmmm???

There are a few things wrong with the way you feel that "Christians" are taking this issue.

Christians are NOT mad about someone saying Happy Holidays because they want to make sure they show respect to your individual beliefs...they are upset because our nation at present is FORCING PEOPLE to say Happy Holidays instead of what they choose to say. It is a very nice thing to say, "Bless You." or "Gesthundeit" after somone sneezes, Thornton...but when Bush makes NOT saying it something that could get you sued...will it still have the same nice polite gesture about it? Or will it take on a decidedly pain in the ass-frivalous-lawsuit-unneeded-rules feel?

Macys has had their CHRISTMAS traditions for year. People loved it. They did not change something that people loved and remembered because they wanted to be more respectful to the 4% who might not be celebrating Christmas...they did it so some idiotic branch of the ACLU didn't attempt to sue them. THATS why people are getting upset.

Christians are not upset that other religions celebrate holy days around this time of year and they share this holiday season with them, Thornton, and it is silly at best or demeaning at worst to think that they are. Christians are upset that they are being told that celebrating one of their most major holidays in any public way, is rude, intolerant, or even un-Constitutional.

 

[Merlin1047]

First I'd like to say that if you read Gem's post - go back and read it again because it seems to me you're missing the point of what we're trying to tell you.

There it is. The exact thing I was saying. It is not just the Christmas season and several other religions are celebrating and buying gifts now too for those celebrations.

What you're demanding is that 96 Christians avoid saying "Merry Christmas" so that we do not risk offending the 4 non-Christians who might be "sensitive". Don't you think that's just a little bit ridiculous? But the point that you ignore is that this is not JUST about "Merry Christmas". This is about a concerted, organized and wide-based attack on Christianity by the left. Many Christians have had enough. The "Merry Christmas" issue is merely the catalyst which has galvanized Christians - much like the attack on the Alamo, while only a minor battle in the big scheme, became the motivating force in our war with Mexico.

There it is. The exact thing I was saying. It is not just the Christmas season and several other religions are celebrating and buying gifts now too for those celebrations.

Im point was that HAPPY HOLIDAYS gives respect and honor to all religions covering their main holiday in December. Not just one. I merely suggested Macy's was being nice to all faiths. Sorry that offends you as a christian. It really shouldn't.

And if someone comes up to me and says "Happy Kwanzaa" or "Happy Honnuka" or "May Zeus find favor with you" I'll smile and say "Thanks. Same to you." It doesn't bother me that there are other beliefs which celebrate the season concurrently with Christmas, but let's give the MAJORITY a little bit of their rights back. I'm getting more than just a little bit sick of having to kiss the ass of every offended splinter group on the face of the planet.

This is the attitude that blows my mind in a country based on freedom of religion. Macy's is getting all this crap and so am I because we both think a polite HAPPY HOLIDAYS covers all faiths. Makes me wonder why christians are so offended by the greeting Happy Holidays. Hhhhhmmm???

There you go again. You keep ignoring the fact that EVERYONE has freedom of religion - including the overwhelming majority of citizens who call themselves adherents of the Christian faith. But somehow you seem to believe that the majority must give up their rights and subjugate their faith to cater to other faiths.

Finally, I'm a bit puzzled with your reaction. For the most part responses to your post have been rational and low-key (with one exception). Yet here you are sniveling about catching "crap". Seems to me that it is not those of us taking the Christian view in this discussion who are easily offended.

Thornton, if you're going to continue to post in this board, I highly recommend you develop some callouses. Not everyone is as polite as I am. If the little bit of flak you caught here bothers you, you're going to end up losing sleep if you get into a really enthusiastic disagreement with some of our more "colorful" folks.

By the way - Merry Christmas.

 

[MissileMan]

Since like 96% of Americans celebrate Christmas, it's a pretty big deal in our country. If the minority doesn't like it, tough! Nobody is stopping atheists from celebrating whatever it is they celebrate. The pagans can celebrate solstice day if they want to. Also, Macy's can stop celebrating Christmas if they like - they have the right - but we, the public, can also stop shopping for our Christmas gifts at Macy's too.




Regarding an atheist suing a Christian: a judge should always be impartial in his decisions. (please take note that Christian is supposed to be capitalized)

If a black sued a white: would this also be cause for discrimination? Would the judge have to be yellow to make the judgement fair.

Nope, but if the judge were sporting a KKK on his robe, it might cause some concern for the black person.

 

[MissileMan]

Could you possibly reverse that where a Christian suing a atheist can feel discriminated against by an atheist judge? After all, if it is looked at one way, it has got to be looked at the other way also, or that would be discrimination. Are we to assume that a judge not wearing a robe with the 10 Commandments written on it is an atheist? I'm sure that if all the bickering and whining would stop and the A.C.L.U. was treated like the hate group it is, everything would smooth out and our country could re-unite. I think the word "Tolerance" of others needs is the key word that all people need to strive for.

Absolutely...but I can't think of any universally accepted atheistic symbols that one might adorn a robe with, do you know of any?

 

[Merlin1047]

Absolutely...but I can't think of any universally accepted atheistic symbols that one might adorn a robe with, do you know of any?

Sure do. How about a kerry/edwards bumper sticker?