Time to Pull the Plug on EV’s

[ding]

Virtually every car manufacturer has an EV in production or in the final stages of design.

Audi, BMW, Buick, Cadillac, Chevy, Ford, Genesis, GMC, Honda, Hyundai, Jaguar, Kia, Lamborghini, Lexus, Lotus, Maserati, Mazda, Mercedes, Mini, Nissan, Pininfarina, Porsche, Tesla, Volkswagon and Volvo all have EVs on the market right now.

You think they will just pull the plug? And please name a single major product that didn't experience issues at the beginning or that did not improve as time and production numbers went up.

The best way to get rid of a bad idea (bad idea being replacing all ICE vehicles with battery operated vehicles) is to embrace it fully.

 

[Mac-7]

Perhaps youdon't know what their pan is. I promise you that the car manufacturers wouldn't have invested all that money without a plan.

Biden and california are telling them to build EVs or else

Without undue pressure from government the flood of EVs would not be happening

 

[JohnDB]

I'm not exactly sure of the chemistry but if we could access the hydrogen in such things as bio-diesel, Natural Gas Liquids, Methanol, and clean coal technology (turns yellow coal into diesel)

These are the methods used currently for the hydrogen fuel cell.

 

[ding]

The gas network in the UK have built a street of houses and the pipework installed is a combination of all the different current pipes out there; copper, cast iron, plastic etc.. They're researching the application of replacing the current gas with hydrogen. Then you convert your gas boiler or buy a boiler already geared up to use hydrogen.

That would be a huge engineering challenge; hydrogen embrittlement, leak detection, etc.

Mechanical Behaviour of Steels in High Pressure Hydrogen

TWI Member report summarising the CRP project 22432 concentrating on the investigation of performance of candidate austenitic stainless steels under high pressure hydrogen atmospheres at ambient and low temperatures. Member report 1099/2018.

www.twi-global.com

Steel and Embrittlement Tests for Hydrogen Transport

TWI is supporting one of our Industrial Members, Carten Controls, to better qualify expected materials performance

www.twi-global.com

What is Hydrogen Storage and How Does it Work?

Hydrogen can be stored either as a gas or as a liquid. Hydrogen gas storage typically requires the use of high pressure tanks, while liquid hydrogen storage requires cryogenic temperatures to prevent it boiling back into a gas. Hydrogen can also be stored on the surface of (adsorption) or within...

www.twi-global.com

 

[Captain Caveman]

That would be a huge engineering challenge; hydrogen embrittlement, leak detection, etc.

Mechanical Behaviour of Steels in High Pressure Hydrogen

TWI Member report summarising the CRP project 22432 concentrating on the investigation of performance of candidate austenitic stainless steels under high pressure hydrogen atmospheres at ambient and low temperatures. Member report 1099/2018.

www.twi-global.com

Steel and Embrittlement Tests for Hydrogen Transport

TWI is supporting one of our Industrial Members, Carten Controls, to better qualify expected materials performance

www.twi-global.com

What is Hydrogen Storage and How Does it Work?

Hydrogen can be stored either as a gas or as a liquid. Hydrogen gas storage typically requires the use of high pressure tanks, while liquid hydrogen storage requires cryogenic temperatures to prevent it boiling back into a gas. Hydrogen can also be stored on the surface of (adsorption) or within...

www.twi-global.com

The gas mains, the pressure is approx 20 to 23 millibars at the meter, 68 millibar-ish is one psi.

 

[ding]

The gas mains, the pressure is approx 20 to 23 millibars at the meter, 68 millibar-ish is one psi.

I'd want to see the domain curve showing the partial pressure threshold for where stress cracking/embrittlement occurred. Other factors are at play as well; impurities and the presence of residual stresses.

But the one that concerns me most is leak detection. Hydrogen and helium are hard to contain even at low pressures. The fewer connections the better.

 

[Captain Caveman]

I'd want to see the domain curve showing the partial pressure threshold for where stress cracking/embrittlement occurred. Other factors are at play as well; impurities and the presence of residual stresses.

But the one that concerns me most is leak detection. Hydrogen and helium are hard to contain even at low pressures. The fewer connections the better.

That's why they've set the street up to analyse all this.

Also, an artificial smell is put into mains gas as it's odourless otherwise. I'd imagine the same would apply to any other gas. I suppose with helium, your voice going high pitched would be leak detection !!

 

[ding]

That's why they've set the street up to analyse all this.

Also, an artificial smell is put into mains gas as it's odourless otherwise. I'd imagine the same would apply to any other gas. I suppose with helium, your voice going high pitched would be leak detection !!

They use mercaptans for that "pleasant" aroma.

Hydrogen is certainly intriguing but the technical and commercial challenges of anything close to world wide scale is daunting.

 

[Captain Caveman]

They use mercaptans for that "pleasant" aroma.

Hydrogen is certainly intriguing but the technical and commercial challenges of anything close to world wide scale is daunting.

Hydrogen is something that can be made at home, but how, in what quantity etc.. I've not bothered researching. If it was feasible to make sufficient hydrogen to run a boiler, I suppose old gas mains would be obsolete, but I would imagine they would be looking into some system to do that as opposed to analysing existing gas mains as a viable option.

Another house left the planet yesterday due to a gas explosion -

Birmingham explosion: Woman found dead and man seriously hurt

The gas explosion completely destroyed one house and damaged others in north Birmingham.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[ding]

Hydrogen is something that can be made at home, but how, in what quantity etc.. I've not bothered researching. If it was feasible to make sufficient hydrogen to run a boiler, I suppose old gas mains would be obsolete, but I would imagine they would be looking into some system to do that as opposed to analysing existing gas mains as a viable option.

Another house left the planet yesterday due to a gas explosion -

Birmingham explosion: Woman found dead and man seriously hurt

The gas explosion completely destroyed one house and damaged others in north Birmingham.

www.bbc.co.uk

The energy cost to extract hydrogen from water exceeds the energy benefit from using the hydrogen. There's no such thing as a free lunch. So the idea is to use spare renewable capacity to extract the hydrogen from water. That's never going to happen at a world wide scale.

 

[woodwork201]

From a commercial standpoint, hydrogen is a tough nut to crack because it costs more energy to break the bond with oxygen than the energy you get from combining hydrogen with oxygen in a fuel cell or from combusting hydrogen in an ICE. Hydrogen does have storage and other challenges (see link) but the commerciality of generating hydrogen seems to be the biggest obstacle to me.

What is Hydrogen Storage and How Does it Work?

Hydrogen can be stored either as a gas or as a liquid. Hydrogen gas storage typically requires the use of high pressure tanks, while liquid hydrogen storage requires cryogenic temperatures to prevent it boiling back into a gas. Hydrogen can also be stored on the surface of (adsorption) or within...

www.twi-global.com

All true but amazing advances are being made already. More to come.

 

[Batcat]

And consider that the disabled EV might be in the lanes of traffic and no one is getting out. Could happen with a gas car, too, I suppose.

Actually during the Tampa Bay evacuation for Hurricane Charlie, I didn’t see many disabled vehicles.

A gasoline powered car can go a considerable distance on a tank of gas. Plus it only takes a couple of minutes to fill the tank at a gas station and you are good to go for another fairly long period of time.

I have no idea how fast an EV would discharge if stuck in a traffic jam. When you did get to a place to recharge, you would likely have to wait for a few hours to plug in your vehicle and then the amount of time to recharge.

If a major Hurricane was approaching I would not want to be caught recharging my EV or stuck on the side of the road with a dead battery.

Also often in a Hurricane the power often goes out. That can effect gasoline stations too but you can always carry a container of gas in your vehicle.

 

[WinterBorn]

Actually during the Tampa Bay evacuation for Hurricane Charlie, I didn’t see many disabled vehicles.

A gasoline powered car can go a considerable distance on a tank of gas. Plus it only takes a couple of minutes to fill the tank at a gas station and you are good to go for another fairly long period of time.

I have no idea how fast an EV would discharge if stuck in a traffic jam. When you did get to a place to recharge, you would likely have to wait for a few hours to plug in your vehicle and then the amount of time to recharge.

If a major Hurricane was approaching I would not want to be caught recharging my EV or stuck on the side of the road with a dead battery.

Also often in a Hurricane the power often goes out. That can effect gasoline stations too but you can always carry a container of gas in your vehicle.

Having lived and worked in Florida for a number of years, I have had to evacuate in front of hurricanes.

Yes, if you had to travel far on short notice it would be an issue in an EV.

But not once did I need to evacuate with little or no notice. It is easy to charge every night. And the power goes out when the storm hits. By then evacuation is simply stupid.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

EVs also create far fewer emissions.

The Green New Deal Is a Dead Man's Hand

Common sense, and the history since automobiles became the prime source of mobility, would make an independent mind conclude that those auto emissions are practically harmless to humans and absolutely fatal to killer viruses, which are primitive organisms that never had to deal with them and never will be able to. The Lethal Lockdown created the only atmosphere the Cronyvirus could deal with.

So if the only argument against Eco-Buggies is about the primitive state of their technology and service, that will be solved eventually and we'll be driven back to the pre-IC past and suffer from plague after plague after plague. That previous "Clean Air" killed more people than even wars did.

 

[Batcat]

Having lived and worked in Florida for a number of years, I have had to evacuate in front of hurricanes.

Yes, if you had to travel far on short notice it would be an issue in an EV.

But not once did I need to evacuate with little or no notice. It is easy to charge every night. And the power goes out when the storm hits. By then evacuation is simply stupid.

I did some research and it looks like if you were stuck in a traffic jam your battery would last a fair amount of time.

Of course if a hurricane was coming everybody would try to charge their cars up at the same time. Hopefully that would not overload the grid.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The gas network in the UK have built a street of houses and the pipework installed is a combination of all the different current pipes out there; copper, cast iron, plastic etc.. They're researching the application of replacing the current gas with hydrogen. Then you convert your gas boiler or buy a boiler already geared up to use hydrogen.

That'd be a great idea!! It's not like hydrogen has a tendency to leak or corrode metal.

What's the benefit again?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

We're far, far, further along toward safe hydrogen than we were in 2010, for instance.

But why?
It doesn't save energy. Just the opposite.

 

[westwall]

Biggest problem with the whole going green is no one has laid out a workable plan. Those that want to push green are only interested in feelings and have no idea how to get there

Actually, most are just interested in milking tax dollars.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

And since you obviously don't like hydrogen and know more than all of those crazy engineers and scientists at places like MIT and Stanford, just what is it that you suggest that is cleaner than hydrogen for the long term?

I'm not suggesting anything is cleaner than hydrogen.
Oil, natural gas and nuclear are plenty clean already.
It's not like we have a bunch of extra energy sitting around that we should waste
it on something stupid like hydrogen.
As far as the guys from MIT and Stanford, they're getting paid to work on that stupid idea.
Why would they be honest about the dangers and shorfalls?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Don't expect an honest answer from Todd. He only knows how to criticize what he doesn't believe. He rarely is capable of stating what he does believe.

Maybe we can generate hydrogen using one of your heat powered solar panels?