Time for all of us to just say it, the US is finished

[yidnar]

Oh sure, the entity known as the United States will keep on in some fashion for quite awhile yet. But the country which took the world by storm is gone.

And the worst part is, its our own fault. The American who led this nation to greatness is by and large gone.

Integrity, Honor,Hard Work, Honesty, Charity,Faith,Kindness,Intelligence,Fairness, attributes which used to be easy to find are now as rare as a unicorn.

The average American is lazy, dishonest, disloyal, mean, stupid, and just downright unpleasant.

Watch some of these talk shows, or listen to talk radio or read some of these newspapers and you see the new attitude of Americans.

"anyone who disagrees with me is stupid" is the new catch phrase, no matter how stupid what that person thinks. It's always the other person who is stupid.

Or the trend, which isn''t all THAT new I suppose, of pretending like EVERYTHING from the other side is a stupid idea, and everything from your own side is a great idea. Which people from BOTH sides do, never mind that left and right both equally have good and bad ideas , frankly mostly bad ideas from both sides.

Perhaps most disturbing to me is the people who can't figure out that freedoms worth defending are NOT just those freedoms which YOU personally enjoy.

As an example, I'm a straight male , but I defend a man's right to be a gay if he wants. Why shouldnh't I? It doesn't affect me in the least, and we are a country of freedoms aren't we? By the same token, leave my guns alone.

Just as two examples.

Fully half of the people in this nation no longer contribute in the form of income tax, in fact many actually EARN money from the system, and many not only don't have a problem with that, they applaud it.

By the same token the super rich in this nation surely get benefits from such wealth that the common man will just never have access to and yes they can afford to pay accordingly, that isn't the same thing as saying "soak the bastards"

Welfare isn't doing us any favors either. Okay, I can buy that we need to provide a safety net for people who fall on hard times, and honestly anyone who disagrees with that is just a fool. But by the same token, folks we have people making their LIVING off of welfare, people living more comfortably than people who go out there and bust their ass every day and again we have people out there who are not only okay with it, they applaud it.

People who are adamantly anti Christian are also part of the problem. No one could possibly be as outraged over some of the things these folks claim outrage them. Oh my God Christians want to have a nativity scene on the town square , to the batmobile...

What part of the first amendment is so hard for some to understand I have a freedom to practice my religion, you don't have the freedom to not see me do so. The government is obligated to not interfere with my right. They are not obligated to keep you from having to see any form of religious practice.

More fun I suppose to make fun and claim people believe fairy tales, or what have you.

If you're 8. Which I suppose is about right since the average American has the mental capacity of an 8 year old.

Look at the recent shootings as another example of what I'm referring to.An absolutely horrible tragedy in Sandy Hook, and people don't have the decency to wait ONE week before making political hay out of it, people on BOTH sides.

Maybe this country needs to end.

Frankly, most days, I'm embarrassed to be an American.

If we want to save this once great nation of ours, we will have to save it one person at a time, otherwise it's of no use even trying.

Sorry for the long rant.

nah....we will just have to clean up the mess the libbs caused,because once they get what they want they will be in worse shape than the right wingers they hate.

 

[Trajan]

Maybe. Maybe not. Times change, and so does society. Sometimes for the better, sometimes not so much. All the depressing stuff going on now, it won't last, it never does. Anybody here old enough to remember the 60s, anti-establishment, counter culture, make love not war? People thought then the world was going to hell, but times changed. People worried about global war and annihilation, didn't happen. We had the rat race, then we didn't. We had people living far beyond their means, now we don't, although many would like to. Used to be everyone was expected to pull their weight, now not so much. But it'll change, maybe we need to go through another bad depression like the 1930s or worse to change attitudes and values. Maybe we'll have to go through it more than once.

I wish we weren't giving future generations such a mess to clean up; we're making it hard on them, and we're still going in the wrong direction IMHO. But America pulled itself out of a terrible depression and a really bad war and a really big debt once before. It can be done, and I think will eventually.

I would agree only in that , that biggest of reset buttons would have to be pushed, by that I mean a cataclysm so overwhelming there would be a true paradigm shift.


Aside from a world war, I don't see that happening, our debt is almost mathematically impossible to solve even in a generation and I am not sure our and societal issues as they exist now, will allow whats needed....*shrugs*

I suppose that lead us full circle. Which came first. Americans not caring which led to where we are? or did things become so bad that eventually American quit caring?

excellent question(s). I think to an extent we are just overwhelmed. there is just so much going on right now that its hard to get a grasp of all of it, as walter lippman theorized, theres so much to know and decide folks by and large are half way to 'believing' before they know or digest the facts. There fore you get a series of knee jerk reactions and logic and reason get lost.

What he advocated has almost come to pass, the elites who imho are no longer held responsible for what they wrought, just go merrily along buoyed with help from the media who unwittingly engineer an ill informed mass of citizens who are easily befuddled ( and/or bought) and are/or become disinterested becasue they are- overwhelmed.

 

[catzmeow]

It's too hard to really master the concept that your views have failed in the marketplace of ideas, isn't it?

 

[JustTheFacts]

It's too hard to really master the concept that your views have failed in the marketplace of ideas, isn't it?

What ideas are those? I said nothing of agreeing or disagreeing with ideas as I dont think they are the source of our failure. rather I believe failure is due to the reasons I listed in the op.

 

[catzmeow]

It's too hard to really master the concept that your views have failed in the marketplace of ideas, isn't it?

What ideas are those? I said nothing of agreeing or disagreeing with ideas as I dont think they are the source of our failure. rather I believe failure is due to the reasons I listed in the op.

The ideas in your OP are based upon a paradigm of how America used to function (though not historically accurate) and a paradigm about how it should function now and in the future that was rejected by the majority of voters.

America is in the process of change. America is ALWAYS in the process of change. Acting like chicken littles because your party lost an election and is no longer able to market its ideas effectively to the majority of Americans is pathetic.

 

[PaulS1950]

There is only so much America can change and still follow the constitution. When it no longer follows the constitution it is no longer America.

 

[JustTheFacts]

It's too hard to really master the concept that your views have failed in the marketplace of ideas, isn't it?

What ideas are those? I said nothing of agreeing or disagreeing with ideas as I dont think they are the source of our failure. rather I believe failure is due to the reasons I listed in the op.

The ideas in your OP are based upon a paradigm of how America used to function (though not historically accurate) and a paradigm about how it should function now and in the future that was rejected by the majority of voters.

America is in the process of change. America is ALWAYS in the process of change. Acting like chicken littles because your party lost an election and is no longer able to market its ideas effectively to the majority of Americans is pathetic.

Reread the op and try to understand that I blame idiots on both sides and I think there are sincere people on both sides. Just too few of them.

I realize its knee jerk to just assume someone is blaming one side or the other but that isnt what I said at all.

If you read some of my posts outside this thread youll see ive been consistent in saying the few adults on both sides need to step up. Weve been letting children run things for too long.

 

[JustTheFacts]

There is only so much America can change and still follow the constitution. When it no longer follows the constitution it is no longer America.

You are of course wrong about that. If a constitutional amendment were passed naming obama king for life that would be wholly consistent with what the founders envisioned

Now if he were to just crown himself. Not so much

 

[PaulS1950]

Since the power to make a king is expressly forbidden in the constitution it would be unconstitutional to place an amendment of that type into the document. It clearly goes against the letter and intent of the constitution.
There is als no way the the second amendment can be over-ridden by an amendment to it. It is in abject opposition to the intent and letter of the constitution.
Let me rephrase that - sure, the idiots that controlled the last presidential election could attempt to modify or delete the second amendment but (BIG BUT) the ninth amendment still allows for the right of self sefense and the right to keep and bear arms. Between the second, ninth and fourteenth amendments we are pretty well locked in to the right to keep and bear arms.
If it was ever accomplished it would start a civil war that would not stop until the government was replaced.

 

[JustTheFacts]

Since the power to make a king is expressly forbidden in the constitution it would be unconstitutional to place an amendment of that type into the document. It clearly goes against the letter and intent of the constitution.
There is als no way the the second amendment can be over-ridden by an amendment to it. It is in abject opposition to the intent and letter of the constitution.
Let me rephrase that - sure, the idiots that controlled the last presidential election could attempt to modify or delete the second amendment but (BIG BUT) the ninth amendment still allows for the right of self sefense and the right to keep and bear arms. Between the second, ninth and fourteenth amendments we are pretty well locked in to the right to keep and bear arms.
If it was ever accomplished it would start a civil war that would not stop until the government was replaced.

It most certainly is not forbidden. The word king is not mentioned in the cotus and in fact originally the founding fathers wanted to crown george washington king and he declined. Choosing the title president instead

But as far as that goes anything in the cotus can reversed with an amendment as has been done several times in the past.

 

[PaulS1950]

In Article 1 Section 9:
"... No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States:
And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them,
shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present,
emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King,
Prince, or foreign State."

I believe that the title of "king" is a title of nobility.........

 

[Avorysuds]

I see the problem being we have 2 progressive parties when it comes to policies. We see labels on the parties like the “Far Right” or the “Far Left” but their policies are near identical. Look at the fiscal cliff, did we even get a single meaningful cut? Yet it was voted on and passed… Expansions of wars, all funded with money we don’t have approved by congress.

As of today both parties are:
The war party
Adding to the masses of regulations
Growing Governments role in Healthcare and education
Give tax cuts
And spend far more than we take in.

We reached a point where the Government gives out so much to the rich and the poor that even a hint that taxes might go up for the upper middle class down to the poor sends shockwaves through the US. People are ok with taxes going up on the top 1% or now top 2% despite the revenues not even paying but a slight amount on our growing interest but if you dare talk about them paying more taxes or in the case of almost half the nation even paying a federal tax then you’re “extreme!”

There is this false sense that there is an actual far right, or far left. Reality is we only get one thing, massive growth in Government though spending and through powers. When was the last time Government’s power was lessoned or removed… When was the last time Government cuts spending and didn’t raid SS to do it like under Clinton?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

There is only so much America can change and still follow the constitution. When it no longer follows the constitution it is no longer America.

We are facing perilous times. No doubt.

Jeremiah

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Oh sure, the entity known as the United States will keep on in some fashion for quite awhile yet. But the country which took the world by storm is gone.

And the worst part is, its our own fault. The American who led this nation to greatness is by and large gone.

...

Post trashed.

Do you know what I think? I think that you are threatened by people such as Justthefacts because they have it right! They are addressing the problem, asking the right questions, making their point and with a precision that scares you and your ilk!

To that I say, BRAVO JUSTTHEFACTS!!! Keep writing, keep sharing with the people what your thoughts are because we are listening! We are most definitely listening!

I must say this is probably one of the best threads on any message board anywhere right now! Why? Because it cuts right to the chase! The guy that started this thread is not a loser. On the contrary, he is a WINNER!!!

- Jeremiah

 

[catzmeow]

If you read some of my posts outside this thread youll see ive been consistent in saying the few adults on both sides need to step up. Weve been letting children run things for too long.

Can you point me to one of your posts where you demonstrate this? I'd enjoy reading it.

I agree with your last sentence 100%.

 

[freedombecki]

I would agree only in that , that biggest of reset buttons would have to be pushed, by that I mean a cataclysm so overwhelming there would be a true paradigm shift.


Aside from a world war, I don't see that happening, our debt is almost mathematically impossible to solve even in a generation and I am not sure our and societal issues as they exist now, will allow whats needed....*shrugs*

I suppose that lead us full circle. Which came first. Americans not caring which led to where we are? or did things become so bad that eventually American quit caring?

excellent question(s). I think to an extent we are just overwhelmed. there is just so much going on right now that its hard to get a grasp of all of it, as walter lippman theorized, theres so much to know and decide folks by and large are half way to 'believing' before they know or digest the facts. There fore you get a series of knee jerk reactions and logic and reason get lost.

What he advocated has almost come to pass, the elites who imho are no longer held responsible for what they wrought, just go merrily along buoyed with help from the media who unwittingly engineer an ill informed mass of citizens who are easily befuddled ( and/or bought) and are/or become disinterested becasue they are- overwhelmed.

We could start at square one: pay off the national debt before we allow another spending spree. Oh, wait. The vote just favored the spenders. Many of the people think somebody else is responsible for their welfare because their teachers told them so and also teachers hate the school board who serve after working long days at their businesses, and everybody knows how evil businesses are to make people work when they don't want to.

 

[catzmeow]

We could start at square one: pay off the national debt before we allow another spending spree. Oh, wait. The vote just favored the spenders. Many of the people think somebody else is responsible for their welfare because their teachers told them so and also teachers hate the school board who serve after working long days at their businesses, and everybody knows how evil businesses are to make people work when they don't want to.

I agree. Let's start with cutting our largest budget item by 30%: military spending. Then, let's restore tax rates to the level they were at in 2000. Then, let's eliminate corporate subsidies and support of products such as ethanol. Last, let's reduce social security payments to a sum total of the amount paid into the system by individuals. Finally, let's stop funding medicare for seniors whose incomes are above $40k a year.

still agree?

 

[JustTheFacts]

We could start at square one: pay off the national debt before we allow another spending spree. Oh, wait. The vote just favored the spenders. Many of the people think somebody else is responsible for their welfare because their teachers told them so and also teachers hate the school board who serve after working long days at their businesses, and everybody knows how evil businesses are to make people work when they don't want to.

I agree. Let's start with cutting our largest budget item by 30%: military spending. Then, let's restore tax rates to the level they were at in 2000. Then, let's eliminate corporate subsidies and support of products such as ethanol. Last, let's reduce social security payments to a sum total of the amount paid into the system by individuals. Finally, let's stop funding medicare for seniors whose incomes are above $40k a year.

still agree?

Yep, but add in

Do away with SSI completely.

Do away with the EIC completely

Eliminate welfare lifers by institution a strict cap on yearly and lifetime benefits.

Restructure Social Security so that all income is taxed
Any person who made $1M a year over the last 10 years prior to being eligible for social security is ineligible to collect social security

Eliminate Pel Grants

No welfare for the minors who's parents are not US citizens regardless of the child's status. IOW yes if you come here and your child is born here he or she is an American, but you aren't collecting welfare.

A national sales tax of %5 on all retails sales , in addition to to the current income tax system OR just dump the income tax system altogether and go with a flat %12 sales tax, NO exclusions, no "poor people can't afford it" . Nothing.

An import tax of equal percentage for any item bought abroad and brought into this nation.

still agree?

 

[Katzndogz]

America is gone but the lamp of freedom never goes completely out. It will flame again elsewhere.

 

[Rozman]

I think the message was sent by the President
and he said it loud and clear just what the Democrat party thinks of
people who strive to achieve in this country.
To sacrifice and work hard and struggle to produce something.

When Obama gave his infamous "You didn't build that" speech.
He pretty much said it all about the democrat party's attitude to that American work ethic.
He pretty much said anyone who aspires to that is a joke.
He was laughing with his worshipers behind him yacking it up.

That was the single worst thing I have ever seen an American in power say about another American.