Tim Allen tweets question about taxation

[Votto]

If you don't understand Capitalism, you won't understand Taxation. Neither you appear to have even a basic grasp of.

Is Capitalism the name for the randomly capitalizing words in sentences?

Nope. It's the proper name of our economic system, which neither of you understand.

Well since we have someone who understand the economics in the federal government, tell us, how much deficit spending is too much? What is the limit? If there is no limit, then why collect taxes?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

[And it means upper income people shoulder an increasingly higher share of the tax bill. That is also unfair.

Adam Smith disagrees with you, and so do I, however...

A flat tax is regressive but it can be made to work. We take 40%, right off the top, from everyone, on every dime. For that you get education, housing, food, clothing, job training, and retirement. Congrats, problem solved.

 

[Care4all]

Is it really tough being ignorant? Or is ignorance bliss?

Middle earners pay no income taxes because our system is steeply progressive. That is a problem. People need stake in the system. People need to pay income taxes so they feel the bite of government spending.
There are NO 1% income earners who pay nothing in federal income taxes. I defy you to name one. By defintion there cannot be such a thing. On the flip side, many many people find themselves one year in their lives in the top 1%, usually as the result of a one time capital gains sale.

What does the progressiveness on the tax brackets have to do with some people owing no taxes because they have had no financial gain?

What keeps them from owing taxes primarily is the fact that they take their standard deductions and personal exemptions and after this, they owe no taxes....because they have not earned more than these simple allowable personal and standard deductions for the basic costs of living....

those earning more money like you and me, get these same allowable adjustment amounts as those who owe no money, (and even some more deductions that those filing the short form will never take and use), by filing the long form and itemizing our deductions....

BOTTOM LINE, most that don't owe taxes it is simply because they had no financial GAIN on their incomes after taking the allowable standard deductions and personal exemptions that the wealthiest also utilize....

you take those standard deductions and personal exemptions away for the basic cost of necessities so that you can get these people owing no taxes now to owe taxes, then you ALSO take them away from yourself and you will be taxed on those monies too, so your taxes will go up as well....

The brainlessness here is trying me.
THe result of the present system is that the vast majority of wage earners pay no income tax. They obviousl made money, yet paid no income tax on it. That is inherently unfair. And it means upper income people shoulder an increasingly higher share of the tax bill. That is also unfair.

Bottom line: Flat tax. Every dollar of income gets taxed the same, period. You earn, you pay. Period.

they did not have a financial GAIN Rabbi....

Income and taxable income are NOT the same...

Businesses/corporations do NOT pay an income tax on their total revenues brought in, they are taxed ONLY on their GAIN.

The same with people who earn a wage, they are only taxed on their GAIN, and NOT on their total revenues brought in....

so just because a corporation brought in 100 million in gross revenues, they may be taxed on only 10 million of that 100 million because $10 million was their GAIN their earnings their profit....

Same with individual income tax payers, we are NOT taxed on our total gross income....not one single individual is ever income taxed on their gross income....NEVER EVER EVER Rabbi....there are standard deductions and personal exemptions of income BEFORE the poorest and the richest are income taxed.

We are income taxed on our adjustable income or our taxable income....

 

[The Rabbi]

Tim Allen recently tweeted a question. "How does taxing high income people help middle class people succeed?

What say you?

It doesn't. But it satisfies the liberal need to "stick it to da man". ANd it help gets Democrats elected because somewhere somehow they've persuaded people they can take from rich people to fund freebies for them. That was the entire basis of deBlasio's campaign in NY. And he won.
The truth is that all classes are inderdependent and you can't hurt one without hurting all of them.

they've brainwashed you nicely. lol

Look who's talking, Ms Poseur. But nice to see you continue your unbroken fact and content free posting.

 

[The Rabbi]

[And it means upper income people shoulder an increasingly higher share of the tax bill. That is also unfair.

Adam Smith disagrees with you, and so do I, however...

A flat tax is regressive but it can be made to work. We take 40%, right off the top, from everyone, on every dime. For that you get education, housing, food, clothing, job training, and retirement. Congrats, problem solved.

Quote the relevant passage, jerkwad.

We dont need 40%. About 11% would pay for everything currently. Nor do we need cradle to grave socialism, which has failed every time it's been tried.
You're welcome for the education. Now go read something.

 

[The Rabbi]

What does the progressiveness on the tax brackets have to do with some people owing no taxes because they have had no financial gain?

What keeps them from owing taxes primarily is the fact that they take their standard deductions and personal exemptions and after this, they owe no taxes....because they have not earned more than these simple allowable personal and standard deductions for the basic costs of living....

those earning more money like you and me, get these same allowable adjustment amounts as those who owe no money, (and even some more deductions that those filing the short form will never take and use), by filing the long form and itemizing our deductions....

BOTTOM LINE, most that don't owe taxes it is simply because they had no financial GAIN on their incomes after taking the allowable standard deductions and personal exemptions that the wealthiest also utilize....

you take those standard deductions and personal exemptions away for the basic cost of necessities so that you can get these people owing no taxes now to owe taxes, then you ALSO take them away from yourself and you will be taxed on those monies too, so your taxes will go up as well....

The brainlessness here is trying me.
THe result of the present system is that the vast majority of wage earners pay no income tax. They obviousl made money, yet paid no income tax on it. That is inherently unfair. And it means upper income people shoulder an increasingly higher share of the tax bill. That is also unfair.

Bottom line: Flat tax. Every dollar of income gets taxed the same, period. You earn, you pay. Period.

they did not have a financial GAIN Rabbi....

Income and taxable income are NOT the same...

Businesses/corporations do NOT pay an income tax on their total revenues brought in, they are taxed ONLY on their GAIN.

The same with people who earn a wage, they are only taxed on their GAIN, and NOT on their total revenues brought in....

so just because a corporation brought in 100 million in gross revenues, they may be taxed on only 10 million of that 100 million because $10 million was their GAIN their earnings their profit....

Same with individual income tax payers, we are NOT taxed on our total gross income....not one single individual is ever income taxed on their gross income....NEVER EVER EVER Rabbi....their are standard deductions and personal exemptions of income BEFORE the poorest and the richest are income taxed.

We are income taxed on our adjustable income or our taxable income....

You are sorely testing me.
People who earn money earn money. They need to pay tax on it. The fact that our system allows people to get away with not paying tax on earned income IS the problem. Don't tell me someone who collected a paycheck every month did not have a gain. That is obvious bullshit.

 

[BobPlumb]

When government taxes one class more, they don't reduce the amount taken from others. They simply want more money. The more they get, the more they spend. Look how budgets work. The more each agency spends, the more they get. At the end of the year, fraud, waste and abuse run rampant because they must spend all they were allotted the year before to ensure receiving the same the next year. They don't actually need it, but they want it. Why they don't just prove what they actually need and go from there is a mystery. It wouldn't hurt a thing to get different amounts each year, depending on need. Common sense has nothing to do with government spending.

Politicians are already spending money they don't have. Every year, new taxes are imposed. Virtually everything is taxed now. And the ways money is spent gets more ridiculous each year. Despite dingbat Pelosi claiming no cuts can be made, the frivolous spending continues and they keep coming up with more ways to spend.

If a person was doing this and not living within their means, they'd go bankrupt unless they cut up their credit cards and stopped all unnecessary spending. Government just steals more. It's not their money and they act like spoiled rich kids who have no limits.

If they tax the wealthy people more, we will end up having people who are less wealthy. Eventually, you do run out of other peoples' money. That is a fact. It makes no sense that little tyrants come along every few years wanting to test that theory. Look at history. Learn from it.

Middle class is already shrinking and much of that has happened in the last 5 years. Obamacare alone might be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Even if the libs starting stealing the majority of what the wealthy earn, it won't make a measureable difference because they'll spend it on new stuff and not pay down the debt.

Going after the wealthy to make them pay their fair share is nothing more than a talking point designed to give hope to those at the bottom, who believe that the money taken from the wealthy will end up in their hands. Some will, as it is now, but not enough to alter their lives.

The real 1% is the federal reserve banks and top officials in Washington, who become mind blowingly wealthy during their "service to their country." Those people will never be touched by the IRS.

Wealth confiscation and redistribution doesn't help anyone in the long run. It only serves to bring down the wealthy, not elevate the poor. Sad part is that many who push policies to do that know better, but they are only looking toward the power and wealth they covet and are willing to sell out the people to get it.

And yet we had a better economy when the mw had the highest spending power in history and the top tax rate was 70%.

Like when Jimmy Carter was president?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Why do you assume this? Deficit spending goes up every year. Now they spend about $3 trillion in deficit spending.

So we should cut taxes for the rich and just add that to the deficit? What?

The deficit just keeps going up and up. Government has already decided on how much of that deficit spending will go toward entitlements. Increasing taxes will not change the amount the poor receive.

Make no mistake, taxes go up every year and it seems that spending doubles or more when taxes increase and the poor keep getting poorer.

Taxes haven't been going up every year.

 

[NYcarbineer]

It helps because if you don't collect that tax money from the wealthy, you have to collect it somewhere else,

and where else is there? There's the high income people, and the middle income and the low income.

Reduce the revenues you get from the high incomes, and you then have to get that revenue from either the middle income, or the low income, or both.

Taking more money from the latter is taking money that is more important to their personal financial situations.

Bullshit.
You could of course not spend the money to begin with. As it is, the bottom half of wage earners pay nothing. They are the ones getting the free ride on the system.

The wealthy create the poor. They do it with their money, transformed into political power.

 

[The Rabbi]

It helps because if you don't collect that tax money from the wealthy, you have to collect it somewhere else,

and where else is there? There's the high income people, and the middle income and the low income.

Reduce the revenues you get from the high incomes, and you then have to get that revenue from either the middle income, or the low income, or both.

Taking more money from the latter is taking money that is more important to their personal financial situations.

Bullshit.
You could of course not spend the money to begin with. As it is, the bottom half of wage earners pay nothing. They are the ones getting the free ride on the system.

The wealthy create the poor. They do it with their money, transformed into political power.

How do wealthy people create the poor? They take all the money in the system?

 

[DigitalDrifter]

The thing that's always humorous and interesting in a conversation like this, is that so many liberals seem to believe the wealthy don't pay taxes, and if they only did, all of the problems that people in the middle class have, would all go away.

 

[Care4all]

Why do you assume this? Deficit spending goes up every year. Now they spend about $3 trillion in deficit spending.

So we should cut taxes for the rich and just add that to the deficit? What?

The deficit just keeps going up and up. Government has already decided on how much of that deficit spending will go toward entitlements. Increasing taxes will not change the amount the poor receive.

Make no mistake, taxes go up every year and it seems that spending doubles or more when taxes increase and the poor keep getting poorer.

Taxes went down under President Bush's rein and by the end of it spending nearly doubled, the total National debt near doubled....and that was with the booming housing bubble....

lower taxes does not mean in any way shape or form that spending will go down....there is no correlation to such....I wish there were, but it only means borrowing more and more and more, which ruins our credit rating, makes the fed print money, makes the true cost of living hit the middle class and poor negatively in immeasurable ways.... paying our bills is critical, and not through borrowing near every dime, is the key....the higher taxes under Clinton, benefited the wealthiest, the middle and the poor.....the wealthy got richer during this fiscally responsible and higher tax period....even with their higher taxes....but the middle class and poor raised with the tide also....it was a two way street....

 

[AvgGuyIA]

It's an insulting way to pacify the masses.

It either works or it doesn't. Historically it works.

Hitler taxed the poo out of the top 4% in Germany, and it added to the popularity of Hitler.

Ironically, it did very little in terms of increasing substantial revenue for the economy.

Anything Hitler would do would certainly appeal to the Democrats.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

[And it means upper income people shoulder an increasingly higher share of the tax bill. That is also unfair.

Adam Smith disagrees with you, and so do I, however...

A flat tax is regressive but it can be made to work. We take 40%, right off the top, from everyone, on every dime. For that you get education, housing, food, clothing, job training, and retirement. Congrats, problem solved.

Quote the relevant passage, jerkwad.

We dont need 40%. About 11% would pay for everything currently. Nor do we need cradle to grave socialism, which has failed every time it's been tried.
You're welcome for the education. Now go read something.

Your stupidity is terrific entertainment. Thanks a bunch.

 

[Care4all]

The thing that's always humorous and interesting in a conversation like this, is that so many liberals seem to believe the wealthy don't pay taxes, and if they only did, all of the problems that people in the middle class have, would all go away.

I know the wealthy pay taxes, shoot, the middle class pays taxes as well as the poor...

the wealthy can get even more wealthy, even with higher taxes that help this nation pay its bills...just look at what happened under Clinton and ALL THE YEARS that there has been a progressive income tax as high as 70% and 90%....the wealthiest still get more wealth.....year after year.....and have GAINS on incomes, and are taxed only on their GAIN....

if they have a loss, even if their gross income was $1,000,000, they pay no income taxes...

if the bills are being paid, then we will need less taxes to pay for the money we owe already because we will have better interests rates on it, there will be more money available at banks for the middle class and small businesses to borrow and invest at a lower interest rate....the fed won't need to print as much money so it will reduce the inflation rate and unseen inflation rate....consumer confidence will go up, people will have more jobs, people will spend more, adding to the gdp of the nation, which will in turn also add more taxable revenue.....because everyone or near everyone will be doing better and have GAINS on their income....

Then taxes can be reduced on the wealthy....once the economy is going again, they will owe less and will have less of the total share of tax revenues...

 

[PaintMyHouse]

It's an insulting way to pacify the masses.

It either works or it doesn't. Historically it works.

Hitler taxed the poo out of the top 4% in Germany, and it added to the popularity of Hitler.

Ironically, it did very little in terms of increasing substantial revenue for the economy.

Anything Hitler would do would certainly appeal to the Democrats.

Hardly, but he had his day. You'd like him actually, he was big on family and patriotism.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Another thread outlining the result of people allowing their outdated views on social issues to influence their vote more than their concern for fiscal issues. Nutters have chosen their party allegiance based on social issues. There is no rational reason why a low income or middle income American would champion the GOP's plans for the economy. These people are motivated by the social issues and accept the "conservative" economic doctrine as an afterthought.

 

[percysunshine]

Has anyone ever died of MBHV (message board hyperventilation)?

 

[The Rabbi]

The thing that's always humorous and interesting in a conversation like this, is that so many liberals seem to believe the wealthy don't pay taxes, and if they only did, all of the problems that people in the middle class have, would all go away.

I know the wealthy pay taxes, shoot, the middle class pays taxes as well as the poor...

the wealthy can get even more wealthy, even with higher taxes that help this nation pay its bills...just look at what happened under Clinton and ALL THE YEARS that there has been a progressive income tax as high as 70% and 90%....the wealthiest still get more wealth.....year after year.....and have GAINS on incomes, and are taxed only on their GAIN....

if they have a loss, even if their gross income was $1,000,000, they pay no income taxes...

if the bills are being paid, then we will need less taxes to pay for the money we owe already because we will have better interests rates on it, there will be more money available at banks for the middle class and small businesses to borrow and invest at a lower interest rate....the fed won't need to print as much money so it will reduce the inflation rate and unseen inflation rate....consumer confidence will go up, people will have more jobs, people will spend more, adding to the gdp of the nation, which will in turn also add more taxable revenue.....because everyone or near everyone will be doing better and have GAINS on their income....

Then taxes can be reduced on the wealthy....once the economy is going again, they will owe less and will have less of the total share of tax revenues...

You really are that clueless.
WHen rates are high, the wealthy shelter their income with tax free bonds and the like.

But since you are a proponent of a balanced budget, which items would you lke to see cut to achieve that? It is a numerical impossibility to raise taxes enough to cover the deficit, so spending must be cut. Which areas are you in favor of cutting?

 

[The Rabbi]

It either works or it doesn't. Historically it works.

Hitler taxed the poo out of the top 4% in Germany, and it added to the popularity of Hitler.

Ironically, it did very little in terms of increasing substantial revenue for the economy.

Anything Hitler would do would certainly appeal to the Democrats.

Hardly, but he had his day. You'd like him actually, he was big on family and patriotism.

He was big on gun control and universal health care. Like Democrats today.