Thoughts from a Simple Man

[Boss]

Gotta give Boss points for consistency, as in consistently wrong about everything.

Why? Because daws, the anti-god warrior ran out there and found a couple more examples of people perverting Christianity for their own purposes? Whether it's the Nazis or Cortez, or the Crusades to Benny Henn, all through Christian history, people have exploited Christianity and perverted it for their own usage. I point this fact out, and you all act like I'm Billy Graham.

I'm not here to defend Christianity, I've already explained to both you and daws, that I'm not a Christian, and I'm not lying about that unless I am a Christian who is really stupid. But because you couldn't defeat my argument about human spirituality, you run off over here and insinuate that I am some kind of holy roller. I guess I am forever tagged with that label, huh?

Folks, this is how BIGOTS behave. They take a person's arguments, and develop a stereotype to label them, and regardless of what else they may have to say, they are forever tagged with a label. Verily I say unto you, reject these fools, for they know not what they speak.

 

[Boss]

A human being is really a pathetic thing physically. It is slow, weak, with bad teeth, no claws, lousy hearing and a truly horrible sense of smell. It has three things going for it. 1) It is a pack animal. 2) It has a brain capable of envisioning future events. 3) An opposable thumb.

Plus, our eyesight is sub par with other animals as well. Now, other animals work together in packs, upper primates have essentially the same brain as humans, as well as opposable thumbs. The one attribute humans have that others don't, is the ability to spiritually connect. Human spirituality is the basis for our sense of morality and responsible for our "fears of death" which some morons like to use to explain how man created spirituality.

 

[Hollie]

A human being is really a pathetic thing physically. It is slow, weak, with bad teeth, no claws, lousy hearing and a truly horrible sense of smell. It has three things going for it. 1) It is a pack animal. 2) It has a brain capable of envisioning future events. 3) An opposable thumb.

Plus, our eyesight is sub par with other animals as well. Now, other animals work together in packs, upper primates have essentially the same brain as humans, as well as opposable thumbs. The one attribute humans have that others don't, is the ability to spiritually connect. Human spirituality is the basis for our sense of morality and responsible for our "fears of death" which some morons like to use to explain how man created spirituality.

This is the wrong thread for your "spiritual nature", nonsense.

 

[hobelim]

A human being is really a pathetic thing physically. It is slow, weak, with bad teeth, no claws, lousy hearing and a truly horrible sense of smell. It has three things going for it. 1) It is a pack animal. 2) It has a brain capable of envisioning future events. 3) An opposable thumb.

Plus, our eyesight is sub par with other animals as well. Now, other animals work together in packs, upper primates have essentially the same brain as humans, as well as opposable thumbs. The one attribute humans have that others don't, is the ability to spiritually connect. Human spirituality is the basis for our sense of morality and responsible for our "fears of death" which some morons like to use to explain how man created spirituality.

Spirituality is incorporeal in nature having to do with consciousness which is itself incorporeal. The only thing spiritual about humans is their being able to communicate with others through words, grunts, and gestures, incorporeally, via the mind.


When a monkey learns to use a tool are other monkeys who learn from it not learning by what you misidentify as spirituality, as an incorporeal realm of understanding and expression?

How is that any different than when a human does something like build a great temple and the next thing you know everyone just has to have a great temple?

Isn't your idea of spirituality simply monkey see monkey do?

 

[Foxfyre]

I'd say the main difference is that the individual is in control of it based on the circumstance at the time -- rather than parroting a rote book of rules that paints life into the black and white. It seems more meaningful when something is done because one figures out it's the right thing to do as opposed to because that's what this book here says, whether that book is of religion or of law.

I guess I'm just not a follower; in the ethical thought process I'd rather learn to fish than just be handed a fish. It covers more meals.

I didn't refer to a any book, so regardless of any organized religion, let's leave that out of it and focus on the concept. Even though choosing to believe or not believe, to appreciate or condemn, to obey or dismiss a 'book' is also based on our sense of value regardless of the source of that sense.

So in a purely objective anaylsis, is reward or punishment via karma all that different than reward or punishment via heaven or hell? In both cases, something unknowable and intangible drives the belief, as well as the outcome, does it not?

What 'seems more meaningful' to you or what 'makes more sense to me' in such matters is also driven by value based concepts.

Where does a believe in karma come from?

But the concepts of "heaven" and "hell" or if you like "reward" and "punishment" must come from a book, or at this point in history several versions of a book... the concept is not a given. It comprises one view but not the only one. This goes back to the "good/evil" dichotomy, which again is one view, not the only one and certainly not one I subscribe to.

Where does a belief in karma come from? Other than centuries of thought/philosophy by mystics, it's just what makes sense to me; what "feels right". And it serves my needs.

Okay, trying to drag the train back onto the track here and very much appreciate Pogo and Wonky and some others who I believe have grasped the spirit of the exercise Wake intended. . . .I appreciate not at all attempts to make this yet another Christian bashing thread.

Wonky and I are pretty much on the same page. . . .though we haven't explored the concept of where the sense of right and wrong, good and evil originate. . . .we are in agreement that it seems to exist regardless of what religious influences or lack thereof exist.

Now to Pogo. . . the concept of heaven and hell existed long before there was any book, before the Phoenicians developed a crude means of writing that the Hebrews adapted and finally, after generations of oral tradition, began writing down their thoughts, experiences, stories, understandings.

So where did the concept of heaven and hell, reward and punishment, come from? Where did you receive your notion of karma? Is that not too written down somewhere so that you could read it or be taught it by somebody?

You say karma makes sense to you and 'feels right'. But could not heaven and hell have made sense to them and 'felt right' which is why it eventually made it into the 'book'?

(The 'book' is a relative term as it consists of thousands of writings written over many generations and eventually collected and edited together into one source. It developed from their cumulative experience and what they came to understand and believe--those who wrote those manuscripts, most from fragments rather than from any single work, created 'the book' rather than being informed by it.)

So where did their notions come from?
Where does you sense of karma come from?

Where does a sense of what 'feels right' come from?

 

[PratchettFan]

A human being is really a pathetic thing physically. It is slow, weak, with bad teeth, no claws, lousy hearing and a truly horrible sense of smell. It has three things going for it. 1) It is a pack animal. 2) It has a brain capable of envisioning future events. 3) An opposable thumb.

Plus, our eyesight is sub par with other animals as well. Now, other animals work together in packs, upper primates have essentially the same brain as humans, as well as opposable thumbs. The one attribute humans have that others don't, is the ability to spiritually connect. Human spirituality is the basis for our sense of morality and responsible for our "fears of death" which some morons like to use to explain how man created spirituality.

I didn't say we were the only animals with those attributes, only that those were what we had going for us. As to spirituality, that is just a word which means different things to different people. Perhaps there is something to it, perhaps not. However, if there were I would see no reason to presume we were the only animal with it.

 

[Boss]

A human being is really a pathetic thing physically. It is slow, weak, with bad teeth, no claws, lousy hearing and a truly horrible sense of smell. It has three things going for it. 1) It is a pack animal. 2) It has a brain capable of envisioning future events. 3) An opposable thumb.

Plus, our eyesight is sub par with other animals as well. Now, other animals work together in packs, upper primates have essentially the same brain as humans, as well as opposable thumbs. The one attribute humans have that others don't, is the ability to spiritually connect. Human spirituality is the basis for our sense of morality and responsible for our "fears of death" which some morons like to use to explain how man created spirituality.

I didn't say we were the only animals with those attributes, only that those were what we had going for us. As to spirituality, that is just a word which means different things to different people. Perhaps there is something to it, perhaps not. However, if there were I would see no reason to presume we were the only animal with it.

Just a word? Isn't everything "just a word?" Whether it means different things to different people, it's universal in that it's human connection to something greater than self. Until I see evidence of other animals with it, I can't presume other animals have it. Perhaps they do spiritually connect, and it's just in a different way? Breeze raised this point earlier, but we see no indication of other animals practicing spiritual belief.

The point I was trying to get you to see is, all other attributes you can point to that make humans "different" are found in other animals to some degree. They have similar brain structures, cerebral cortex, opposable thumbs, pack mentality... what they don't have is spirituality. This is how a wholly inadequate species such as ourself, with our limited five senses, can crawl out of the muck and create great civilizations, where other species have failed. It is the 'enlightenment' of spirituality in humans, that makes us different. Some people don't believe this because they don't want to believe it. They assume that such a belief means the Christian incarnations of God are legitimate, which is simply not true. Human spirituality far predates Christianity.

 

[Wonky Pundit]

I'd say the main difference is that the individual is in control of it based on the circumstance at the time -- rather than parroting a rote book of rules that paints life into the black and white. It seems more meaningful when something is done because one figures out it's the right thing to do as opposed to because that's what this book here says, whether that book is of religion or of law.

I guess I'm just not a follower; in the ethical thought process I'd rather learn to fish than just be handed a fish. It covers more meals.

I didn't refer to a any book, so regardless of any organized religion, let's leave that out of it and focus on the concept. Even though choosing to believe or not believe, to appreciate or condemn, to obey or dismiss a 'book' is also based on our sense of value regardless of the source of that sense.

So in a purely objective anaylsis, is reward or punishment via karma all that different than reward or punishment via heaven or hell? In both cases, something unknowable and intangible drives the belief, as well as the outcome, does it not?

What 'seems more meaningful' to you or what 'makes more sense to me' in such matters is also driven by value based concepts.

Where does a believe in karma come from?

But the concepts of "heaven" and "hell" or if you like "reward" and "punishment" must come from a book, or at this point in history several versions of a book... the concept is not a given. It comprises one view but not the only one. This goes back to the "good/evil" dichotomy, which again is one view, not the only one and certainly not one I subscribe to.

Where does a belief in karma come from? Other than centuries of thought/philosophy by mystics, it's just what makes sense to me; what "feels right". And it serves my needs.

Karma is unusual among the religious beliefs in that it has a "Newtonian" prediction quality. Namely, if you put positive energy out into the universe, good things will happen to you, and vice versa.

In my own experience, I've seen that principle work many times.

 

[theword]

It doesn't take long for the thoughts of a simple man to become very confusing. Confusion comes from thoughts with deception (Lucifer and the beast).

Those of us who think without deception understand this confusion and why entropy exists in the first place.

 

[Boss]

Spirituality is incorporeal in nature having to do with consciousness which is itself incorporeal. The only thing spiritual about humans is their being able to communicate with others through words, grunts, and gestures, incorporeally, via the mind.

When a monkey learns to use a tool are other monkeys who learn from it not learning by what you misidentify as spirituality, as an incorporeal realm of understanding and expression?

How is that any different than when a human does something like build a great temple and the next thing you know everyone just has to have a great temple?

Isn't your idea of spirituality simply monkey see monkey do?

Nope. Demonstrably, it can't be, or we'd see evidence of monkeys mimicking human spirituality. They don't, nothing does. Only humans do this. It's not because our brain is special, other animals have the same fundamental parts, came from the same 'primordial soup' and evolved through the same process, according to Darwinists. As has been pointed out, humans senses are sub par with many other animals, so that doesn't explain it. At some point, humans discovered an ability to connect to something greater than self, and this was a source of inspiration and what we can call a "can do" attitude in man. This attribute also caused man to create "religions" around what they experienced with spiritual connection. Now, much of "religion" has been a case of "monkey see, monkey do" ...you may have a point there, but human spirituality is certainly not a 'nature-based' attribute, because we don't observe it anywhere but in humans.

You can throw out big words like "incorporeal" and speak of "belief in the supernatural" or "my idea of spirituality" all you like, it's just demonstrating your stubbornness in objective evaluation of the facts. Humans have the ability to connect to something greater than self, and it is through this attribute, they have risen above all other species to become what we are. Nothing else in Darwinist theory can explain it or rationalize it, no matter how hard you try. It's our defining attribute, and what makes us unique as a species, and it didn't come through evolution.

 

[daws101]

Gotta give Boss points for consistency, as in consistently wrong about everything.

Why? Because daws, the anti-god warrior ran out there and found a couple more examples of people perverting Christianity for their own purposes? Whether it's the Nazis or Cortez, or the Crusades to Benny Henn, all through Christian history, people have exploited Christianity and perverted it for their own usage. I point this fact out, and you all act like I'm Billy Graham.

I'm not here to defend Christianity, I've already explained to both you and daws, that I'm not a Christian, and I'm not lying about that unless I am a Christian who is really stupid. But because you couldn't defeat my argument about human spirituality, you run off over here and insinuate that I am some kind of holy roller. I guess I am forever tagged with that label, huh?

Folks, this is how BIGOTS behave. They take a person's arguments, and develop a stereotype to label them, and regardless of what else they may have to say, they are forever tagged with a label. Verily I say unto you, reject these fools, for they know not what they speak.

yes dear. now take your meds.

 

[daws101]

Spirituality is incorporeal in nature having to do with consciousness which is itself incorporeal. The only thing spiritual about humans is their being able to communicate with others through words, grunts, and gestures, incorporeally, via the mind.

When a monkey learns to use a tool are other monkeys who learn from it not learning by what you misidentify as spirituality, as an incorporeal realm of understanding and expression?

How is that any different than when a human does something like build a great temple and the next thing you know everyone just has to have a great temple?

Isn't your idea of spirituality simply monkey see monkey do?

Nope. Demonstrably, it can't be, or we'd see evidence of monkeys mimicking human spirituality. They don't, nothing does. Only humans do this. It's not because our brain is special, other animals have the same fundamental parts, came from the same 'primordial soup' and evolved through the same process, according to Darwinists. As has been pointed out, humans senses are sub par with many other animals, so that doesn't explain it. At some point, humans discovered an ability to connect to something greater than self, and this was a source of inspiration and what we can call a "can do" attitude in man. This attribute also caused man to create "religions" around what they experienced with spiritual connection. Now, much of "religion" has been a case of "monkey see, monkey do" ...you may have a point there, but human spirituality is certainly not a 'nature-based' attribute, because we don't observe it anywhere but in humans.

You can throw out big words like "incorporeal" and speak of "belief in the supernatural" or "my idea of spirituality" all you like, it's just demonstrating your stubbornness in objective evaluation of the facts. Humans have the ability to connect to something greater than self, and it is through this attribute, they have risen above all other species to become what we are. Nothing else in Darwinist theory can explain it or rationalize it, no matter how hard you try. It's our defining attribute, and what makes us unique as a species, and it didn't come through evolution.

hey bossy don't you have a whole other thread to masturbate in?

 

[Boss]

Karma is unusual among the religious beliefs in that it has a "Newtonian" prediction quality. Namely, if you put positive energy out into the universe, good things will happen to you, and vice versa.

In my own experience, I've seen that principle work many times.

It's actually not as unusual as you think, it's just that most people don't define it the same way. My personal spirituality is very closely related to the concepts of Karma, however I believe there is a spiritual higher power. I think a lot of people try to understand this higher power through humanistic terms and attributes, which creates "deities" and "gods" to give us a better sense of understanding. To rebuke human spirituality because you don't like religion, is the same as rebuking filmmaking because you don't like a particular movie or genre of movies.

 

[Boss]

hey bossy don't you have a whole other thread to masturbate in?

Hey dawsy... don't you have some offs to fuck?

 

[Boss]

You're totally messing up my Karma today!

 

[hobelim]

Spirituality is incorporeal in nature having to do with consciousness which is itself incorporeal. The only thing spiritual about humans is their being able to communicate with others through words, grunts, and gestures, incorporeally, via the mind.

When a monkey learns to use a tool are other monkeys who learn from it not learning by what you misidentify as spirituality, as an incorporeal realm of understanding and expression?

How is that any different than when a human does something like build a great temple and the next thing you know everyone just has to have a great temple?

Isn't your idea of spirituality simply monkey see monkey do?

Nope. Demonstrably, it can't be, or we'd see evidence of monkeys mimicking human spirituality. They don't, nothing does. Only humans do this. It's not because our brain is special, other animals have the same fundamental parts, came from the same 'primordial soup' and evolved through the same process, according to Darwinists. As has been pointed out, humans senses are sub par with many other animals, so that doesn't explain it. At some point, humans discovered an ability to connect to something greater than self, and this was a source of inspiration and what we can call a "can do" attitude in man. This attribute also caused man to create "religions" around what they experienced with spiritual connection. Now, much of "religion" has been a case of "monkey see, monkey do" ...you may have a point there, but human spirituality is certainly not a 'nature-based' attribute, because we don't observe it anywhere but in humans.

You can throw out big words like "incorporeal" and speak of "belief in the supernatural" or "my idea of spirituality" all you like, it's just demonstrating your stubbornness in objective evaluation of the facts. Humans have the ability to connect to something greater than self, and it is through this attribute, they have risen above all other species to become what we are. Nothing else in Darwinist theory can explain it or rationalize it, no matter how hard you try. It's our defining attribute, and what makes us unique as a species, and it didn't come through evolution.

Stop it already. Every pack animal, schooling fish, herd animal, flock of birds, teeming creature or ant has the ability to connect with something greater than self.

What is not apparent in nature and exclusive to humans is obstinate stupidity.

People saw something fall from the sky and kill everyone for a thousand miles so they connected with something greater than themselves, Thor, and made up stories about his fearful hammer but the reality is such a so called spiritual connection is nothing more than a fabrication, a misidentification of a reality that rocks fall from the sky, not evidence of any spiritual reality or spiritual connection to something greater than self except one of pure fantasy and shared delusions inspired by fear, ignorance, and unrestrained imaginations.

 

[Boss]

Stop it already. Every pack animal, schooling fish, herd animal, flock of birds, teeming creature or ant has the ability to connect with something greater than self.

What is not apparent in nature and exclusive to humans is obstinate stupidity.

People saw something fall from the sky and kill everyone for a thousand miles so they connected with something greater than themselves, Thor, and made up stories about his fearful hammer but the reality is such a so called spiritual connection is nothing more than a fabrication, a misidentification of a reality that rocks fall from the sky, not evidence of any spiritual reality or spiritual connection to something greater than self except one of pure fantasy and shared delusions inspired by fear, ignorance, and unrestrained imaginations.

If you honestly have convinced yourself that humans are mentally disturbed to this degree, and we've been mentally disturbed our entire existence, it is probably a defense reaction. You need something to explain why you are so fucked up, and this seems logical to you. If every human who ever lived is delusional mental nutcases, then it's no big deal that you are too. It's what enables you to stumble in here, as if on cue, to perform your little act.

There has never been a civilization of humans to exist more than 100 years, without spirituality. The most non-spiritual civilization ever, is found in modern-day Sweden, where 6 of 10 claim to be Atheists. Oddly though, when asked specifically if they believed it was not possible for anything spiritual to exist, only 3 of 10 believed this. All kinds of factors play into history, wars are fought, freedoms taken, religions rise and fall, rulers come and go, but the thing that seems to remain consistent through it all, is the ratio of spiritually inclined, to nihilistic, is about 95:5 or better. So you can continue to spew ignorance... blind ignorance... and show everyone what a retard you are, and hey... you've got the perfect alibi, every man is mentally unstable! We all suffer from obstinate stupidity!

 

[Boss]

Every pack animal, schooling fish, herd animal, flock of birds, teeming creature or ant has the ability to connect with something greater than self. What is not apparent in nature and exclusive to humans is obstinate stupidity.

Congratulations, you've just destroyed Darwin's Theory of Natural Selection. Stupid animals do not evolve upward to more intelligent species, the smarter ones do. SO... if humans are stupid in their spiritual beliefs, the other upper primates, not burdened by stupid superstitions, would have passed humans many years ago. I realize, in your case, there may be some chimps and upper primates who are smarter, but most humans are smarter and more advanced than other upper primates.

 

[PratchettFan]

Plus, our eyesight is sub par with other animals as well. Now, other animals work together in packs, upper primates have essentially the same brain as humans, as well as opposable thumbs. The one attribute humans have that others don't, is the ability to spiritually connect. Human spirituality is the basis for our sense of morality and responsible for our "fears of death" which some morons like to use to explain how man created spirituality.

I didn't say we were the only animals with those attributes, only that those were what we had going for us. As to spirituality, that is just a word which means different things to different people. Perhaps there is something to it, perhaps not. However, if there were I would see no reason to presume we were the only animal with it.

Just a word? Isn't everything "just a word?" Whether it means different things to different people, it's universal in that it's human connection to something greater than self. Until I see evidence of other animals with it, I can't presume other animals have it. Perhaps they do spiritually connect, and it's just in a different way? Breeze raised this point earlier, but we see no indication of other animals practicing spiritual belief.

The point I was trying to get you to see is, all other attributes you can point to that make humans "different" are found in other animals to some degree. They have similar brain structures, cerebral cortex, opposable thumbs, pack mentality... what they don't have is spirituality. This is how a wholly inadequate species such as ourself, with our limited five senses, can crawl out of the muck and create great civilizations, where other species have failed. It is the 'enlightenment' of spirituality in humans, that makes us different. Some people don't believe this because they don't want to believe it. They assume that such a belief means the Christian incarnations of God are legitimate, which is simply not true. Human spirituality far predates Christianity.

No. Everything is not just a word. I am sitting in a chair. The word "chair" may be just a word but the chair itself is not. You can see it, touch it and even sit in it. I can show it to you and we can agree on its attributes regardless of what word we apply to it. Now do the same thing with spirituality. Show it to me. Define it exactly and then back up that definition with objective evidence. Then you might be in a place to tell me other animals don't have it or even that we do. Until then, it is just a word.

 

[Wonky Pundit]

Karma is unusual among the religious beliefs in that it has a "Newtonian" prediction quality. Namely, if you put positive energy out into the universe, good things will happen to you, and vice versa.

In my own experience, I've seen that principle work many times.

It's actually not as unusual as you think, it's just that most people don't define it the same way. My personal spirituality is very closely related to the concepts of Karma, however I believe there is a spiritual higher power. I think a lot of people try to understand this higher power through humanistic terms and attributes, which creates "deities" and "gods" to give us a better sense of understanding. To rebuke human spirituality because you don't like religion, is the same as rebuking filmmaking because you don't like a particular movie or genre of movies.

What makes you think I'm rebuking human spirituality? Or that I don't like religion?

Of course we all know that many people pervert religious teachings, but religious rituals can still be very comforting for many others. Religion isn't all bad.