Thomas Friedman: Obama Can See America From Iran's Perspective

[occupied]

Chess? WTF are you yammering about?

Obviously the game of chess is as foreign to you as ....well, sanity.

In chess the ability to foresee what your opponent may do next, determines who the winner will most likely be.

Stick to checkers.

If conservative diplomatic thinking were compared with a game it would be a slot machine, do the same mindless, wasteful thing over-and-over and eventually, after many failures, it just might pay off.

 

[thereisnospoon]

That's what Jimmy Carter did, and started this whole mess when he threw the Shah under the bus in favor of Ruhollah Khomeini.

RIght. because clearly carter saying we don't support the Shah made the difference, not the 50 million Iranians who wanted that fuckhead gone.

THye were led to believe the oil money would trickle down to them. Such was not the case.
The regime took over and all they got was religious fanaticism......Great...
Same thing happened in Cuba. Castro promised the revolution would bring prosperity to the people. All they got was strings....That connected them to the Soviet Union.
Cuba remains a dirt poor nation today. The people have no hope.
Venezuela.....Same thing. Chavez promised the 70% of his people who live in abject poverty he would share the wealth of the rich corporations. Chavez was elected. He stole the assets of the companies which fueled the economy and claimed those assets as property of the govt of Venezuela.....Guess what....all that power to the people crap was just that....Crap....70% of the population STILL lives in abject poverty.
So you see jose, your dream of socialist utopia always ends up the same. The elite ruling class of a very few controls the wealth, weapons and the government servbes them and them only...The people live in filth and poverty.
But since you hate the capitalist system so much, you can go there to live out the rest of your miserable angry complaining life. Please...Go now.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Chess? WTF are you yammering about?

Obviously the game of chess is as foreign to you as ....well, sanity.

In chess the ability to foresee what your opponent may do next, determines who the winner will most likely be.

Stick to checkers.

Dude I have forgotten more about the game of chess than you could ever know.... I used to play chess all the time.
I am well aware of the vagaries of the chess game between nations.
I was wondering why you changed the subject....
Obama is not in a chess game with Iran. He is capitulating to Iran.....He is not acting in the best interests of the US.
His mentality is "who the hell are we to say which nation can and cannot have nuclear weapons"....
He also believes WE are the creator of all of the problems in the world. That we have too much. We are too free and too proud.
That we offend other countries. Especially those with which he feels empathy.
All Obama's actions do is make us appear weak.
If our soil were to be invaded, Obama would order the military to stand down. He would believe he could negotiate. Meanwhile American lives were being snuffed out.
Yeah...I think Obama cares that much about his fellow Americans.

 

[thereisnospoon]

That's what Jimmy Carter did, and started this whole mess when he threw the Shah under the bus in favor of Ruhollah Khomeini.

In 1953 we (the CIA) helped to overthrow the SECULAR, elected leader of Iran and installed the Shah (the Pahlavi regime) because we wanted to have cheap Iranian oil......If you're going too bash democrats, READ a bit of history first and don't rely on FOX to teach you everything you "need to know.".

Wow......Are you off the track here.
On news coverage....Yeah...I find it amusing how you flaming libs believe the main stream media ( ABC ,CBS NBC, CNN, etc) are all middle of the road.
Here's the difference. Fox News editorial staff freely admits they report on the news form a right leaning point of view....
The others would NEVER admit they report and comment on the news from a left wing viewpoint.
And if you claim they do not, you are lying to yourself.

 

[thereisnospoon]

That's what Jimmy Carter did, and started this whole mess when he threw the Shah under the bus in favor of Ruhollah Khomeini.

In 1953 we (the CIA) helped to overthrow the SECULAR, elected leader of Iran and installed the Shah (the Pahlavi regime) because we wanted to have cheap Iranian oil......If you're going too bash democrats, READ a bit of history first and don't rely on FOX to teach you everything you "need to know.".

They have good reason to distrust the US since we have never dealt fairly with them.

Why should we? Iran has never been a friendly nation.
Newsflash...You don't make an enemy become your friend by offering tea and cookies.

 

[thereisnospoon]

When what you see is Christians being beheaded because they're Christians, you're supposed to DO something. Obabble does nothing.

Oh, what the heck....lets mix Iranians with all other Islamic radicals...rational thought was NEVER right wingers' forte, right?

Are you Iranian? Married to an Iranian?

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Sometimes, do you get the feeling that the gop is the party of stupid?
“Negotiation 101: You sit across the table. First of all, you put yourself on the other side of the table and you say ‘What do they, what can they do, what can’t they do. You get the lay of the land. The second thing you do is, you make an offer that they will accept some in that range, and you’d be willing to take. And the third thing you do in a negotiation, you want to end up, as you walk out the door, with a win/win,” said Welch. - See more at: The Shutdown And Presidency Power With Jack Welch State of the Markets

Iranians are NOT stupid and neither are we when negotiating......

The art of compromise is based on the reality that no one really loses, and NO ONE really wins.

Iranians know full well that sanctions (with Russia and China snickering and violating any bans) do very little.....and that the only other recourse is for us to attack Iran (which is 3 times the size of Iraq with formidable armed forces).....and that would be INSANITY....

As the Iranians know this, so does the Obama administration....ERGO, diplomacy is the only alternative....but right wingers consider this an act of "appeasement"...WHY??? Well, they are fundamentally stupid.

The reality of the situation has no place in the conservative warhawk assessment. They think Iran is a backward Afghanistan like place rather than the developed, educated place it really is and you cannot tell them any different.

Lots of educated people in Nazi Germany, too. You need to be grateful for war hawks.

Yeah, the point is that you people think Iran is just another piss-hole like our other two wars. There are times that hawkishness is a good thing but when the urge for battle is based in misinformation and "faulty intelligence" it's a ******* terrible thing.

36 years of a criminal regime engaged in murder and terrorism isn't something that is subject to interpretation or misinformation.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Lots of educated people in Nazi Germany, too. You need to be grateful for war hawks.

You're "right," especially grave diggers at Arlington.....

Do you have any response to my post?

 

[LeftofLeft]

Being able to see through the eyes of your adversary and to know your enemy is a valuable ability sadly lacking in nearly every conservative on the face of the earth.

Would the Administration agree with you that Iran is an adversary and enemy?

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Iranians are NOT stupid and neither are we when negotiating......

The art of compromise is based on the reality that no one really loses, and NO ONE really wins.

Iranians know full well that sanctions (with Russia and China snickering and violating any bans) do very little.....and that the only other recourse is for us to attack Iran (which is 3 times the size of Iraq with formidable armed forces).....and that would be INSANITY....

As the Iranians know this, so does the Obama administration....ERGO, diplomacy is the only alternative....but right wingers consider this an act of "appeasement"...WHY??? Well, they are fundamentally stupid.

The reality of the situation has no place in the conservative warhawk assessment. They think Iran is a backward Afghanistan like place rather than the developed, educated place it really is and you cannot tell them any different.

Lots of educated people in Nazi Germany, too. You need to be grateful for war hawks.

Yeah, the point is that you people think Iran is just another piss-hole like our other two wars. There are times that hawkishness is a good thing but when the urge for battle is based in misinformation and "faulty intelligence" it's a ******* terrible thing.

Its a shit hole. Iran is governed by people living in the 7th century.
Iran is a sponsor and an active participant in terrorism.
Here's the sad part. We could cripple Iran without firing a single shot.
We could easily sabotage their ability to produce oil by electronic means.

You know only what the same people who sold you the Iraq war have told you. Why are you so eager to trust them again?

You're either too young or you're just ignorant. If you're too young I'll give you a temporary pass. If you're ignorant then you're part of the problem.

 

[thereisnospoon]

When what you see is Christians being beheaded because they're Christians, you're supposed to DO something. Obabble does nothing.

Oh, what the heck....lets mix Iranians with all other Islamic radicals...rational thought was NEVER right wingers' forte, right?

I think most rational people hold Iran as being behind most ME terrorism. Just how confused are you?

Not confused at all.....Except for WWII, our armed forces have suffered from a lack of historical perspective of who the enemy was (and is) and that is a grave mistake.....What Obama is offering to do when diplomacy (and not, "let's bomb them") is applied, is that alternate perspective...Once you better understand what motivates an enemy, ONLY then can you defeat them without slaughtering them.

All well and good. The problem is Obama is capitulating to Iran in attempt to appease them.....Obama in his arrogance offers the hand of reconcilliation and the Iranians spit on it.
Obama is so blinded by his own ego, he thinks the spit is a "put 'er there pal"....
I have a question for you...Do you believe the Iranian government will honor any agreement with the US?

 

[nat4900]

Notice that right wingers on this thread (particularly) are the "beloved" one-trick pony......Offering NOTHING but belligerence and still clinging to the jingoistic fantasy that anyone that pisses us off...."**** 'em, lets bomb them"

Now they'll come back to this post stating nonsense such as "I NEVER said to bomb them".....YET, not offering one freaking alternative toward some peaceful resolution.......

Next time you speak to a right winger about this issue, just ask the idiots as to how many Iranians were involved on 9-11.....Of course, Iran is not our gas station and the neocons wouldn't dare mess with the Saudis...there tons of money there and not in Teheran

IDIOTS and war (and fear) mongers..

 

[nat4900]

Do you have any response to my post?

When you write to thank war hawks, responses are futile in the face of blatant and abject stupidity. Go play with your war games' console.

 

[nat4900]

All well and good. The problem is Obama is capitulating to Iran in attempt to appease them.....Obama in his arrogance offers the hand of reconcilliation and the Iranians spit on it.
Obama is so blinded by his own ego, he thinks the spit is a "put 'er there pal"....
I have a question for you...Do you believe the Iranian government will honor any agreement with the US?

What EXACTLY has Obama capitulated on??? Sanctions? With Russia and China snickering and giving Iran anything that we may want to ban (except maybe Hollywood movies)?

You are just another Obama hater who offers NOTHING but, "Let's bomb Iran...after all, GWB told me that it was part of the axis of evil"...and we all know how well everything went with one other of that axis.

Hateful war-mongers who sit on their asses and expect that the world just fear us because we speak English.

 

[pismoe]

I'm hoping that Israel takes independent action with rumored support from Egypt , Saudi Arabia plus Jordan and maybe a few others Nat !! I'm not afraid of 'iranian' nukes but I am interested in seeing how they play their hand with 'Kerry and mrobama' and you mrobama supporters .

 

[nat4900]

All Obama's actions do is make us appear weak.
If our soil were to be invaded, Obama would order the military to stand down

Do you ever realize what an idiot you are? "If we were to be invaded"? I trust you have weapons around your house as a good right winger should.....go out there and defend us......LOL

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Do you have any response to my post?

When you write to thank war hawks, responses are futile in the face of blatant and abject stupidity. Go play with your war games' console.

Do you have a response to my post?

 

[nat4900]

I'm hoping that Israel takes independent action with rumored support from Egypt , Saudi Arabia plus Jordan and maybe a few others Nat !! I'm not afraid of 'iranian' nukes but I am interested in seeing how they play their hand with 'Kerry and mrobama' and you mrobama supporters .

Well Pissmore, we'll see won't we? Most likely Iran will reject the deal since......much to your chagrin.....Kerry has actually asked for much more than Oran was willing to give.....

So, let Israel attack....and lets see how many Muslim countries back her actions.

 

[nat4900]

Do you have a response to my post?

What "brilliant" question were you asking???

 

[thereisnospoon]

All well and good. The problem is Obama is capitulating to Iran in attempt to appease them.....Obama in his arrogance offers the hand of reconcilliation and the Iranians spit on it.
Obama is so blinded by his own ego, he thinks the spit is a "put 'er there pal"....
I have a question for you...Do you believe the Iranian government will honor any agreement with the US?

What EXACTLY has Obama capitulated on??? Sanctions? With Russia and China snickering and giving Iran anything that we may want to ban (except maybe Hollywood movies)?

You are just another Obama hater who offers NOTHING but, "Let's bomb Iran...after all, GWB told me that it was part of the axis of evil"...and we all know how well everything went with one other of that axis.

Hateful war-mongers who sit on their asses and expect that the world just fear us because we speak English.

Hey asshole...First I never stated nor implied we should "bomb Iran"..Although it would not make me lose a moment of sleep if we turned that God forsaken sand pit into a parking lot.....I stated very clearly that we could cripple Iran's economy without firing a single shot. Of course you are frothing at the mouth with this 'war monger' bullshit.
Obama hater?....No. I hate his policies. I do not know nor have I ever met the man. I cannot pass that judgment.
Of course with you libs every thing is personal. You cannot distinguish between dislike for the polices of a person and dislike for the person himself.
That's your cross to bear.
Don't burden me with your problems....Your opinion is that of a shrill left wing moonbat. A flyspeck in the ocean.