Zone1 There's no rational, reasoned argument for a ban on AR15s (2)

[2aguy]

People who own these are the problem! Most who own firearms are low IQ can'tservatives!

This is the clean debate zone.....

 

[White 6]

In CA you would be in violation of the concealed weapons ordinances. The rifles would be concealed, and the ammo and mags cannot be in the same compartment. The Walther would be in violation as well as CA CCW are EXTREMELY rare.

Even trade, you paid for mine and I returned it with a blank check.

I don't think you live in California. You just don't seem like my idea of a Californian, definitely not a major southern Californian coastal city. You seem more like the rural forested area type, maybe near a river that has flowed down from the mountains on it's way to the sea. That said, my permit is honored in over 30 states but California is not one of them and if my guess is correct your state doesn't either. It is unlikely I will ever travel in your state. I guess I cherish my freedom of personal responsibility more. My evaluations of far western states is probably clouded by talking with my uncle that lived in one of the states years ago and saw it change. He made good money, but the people change, (he said the influx of Californians) the government changed, the politics changed and of course the taxes changed going way up, as freedoms went away. He lived well, in a beautiful area near a town called Grant Pass in the state of Oregon, but he couldn't stomach the changes in that state as mentioned, so after making his money, he moved back. If you are in a state like that which has undergone those kind of changes and lost the freedoms most the rest of country still enjoy, you should ask yourself, is it really worth it?

 

[2aguy]

152 shots by the Nashville shooter with an AR-15 shows different.

No, it doesnt and if you inderstood the issue you would know this....

Nashville

AR-15 rifle 6 killed

Kerch, Russia

5 shot, pump action shotgun, not a rifle, no magazine

20 killed

Navy Yard shooting

5 shot, pump action shotgun,not a rifle, no magazine

12 killed

The gun does not determine how many are killed and you have been explained this over and over

The amount of time the killer has in a gun free zone before someone shoota and stops them determines how many get killed as the two example above show

 

[Hector12]

I dislike guns, but over the years I have become an agnostic about gun control. The proven way to reduce the crime rate is to increase the likelihood and severity of punishment. The way to fight crime is not to fight poverty,. The way to fight crime is to make punishment swift, certain, severe, frequent, and inexpensive.

Nevertheless, I would like to treat the ownership of a gun the way the ownership of a car is treated. People should be required to get a license to own a gun. They should be required to take and pass a written test, and a test on the use of a gun. They should be required to do a ballistics test on the gun. That way, if anyone is shot by the gun, it will be possible to trace the gun to the owner.

The ownership of an unregistered gun should be an extremely serious offense, resulting in extremely severe punishment.

Finally, I would like to repeal the Second Amendment.

Some people say we need guns to protect ourselves from the government. That is an argument that appeals to criminals and terrorists. I want the government to protect me from people like that.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Every time an AR15 is used in a mass shooting - and quite often, even when they aren't - the anti-gun left, in a pre-packaged reactionary response , screams from a ban on same, complete with "information" designed to evoke an emotional response, and, they hope, gain your support for said ban.

What do they NOT tell you?

-American civilians own ~20,000,000 AR15s
-Of the 636 mas shootings in the US, 2022, 8 involved an AR15
-OF the 660 people killed in those mass shootings 54 were killed with an AR15.
[ SOURCES NOTED BELOW ]

Why do they not tell you this?

Because they know there's no sound argument for the ban they call for.
Because they know they need to prey on the emotions of the ignorant to move their ban forward
Because they know preying on the emotions of the ignorant works.
Because they don't care about mass shootings or the people in them - they just want to ban AR15s.

There's no rational, reasoned argument for a ban on AR15s; those who support said ban, in their responses, will demonstrate the truth of this statement.


20,000,000 AR15s:

Why even more Americans are arming up with AR-15 guns

What's behind the popularity of the AR-15, and what responsibility do gun makers have when their products are used in mass shootings?

www.cnbc.com

Mass shootings as defined by:
Mass Shootings in 2022 | Gun Violence Archive
Supplemental / detailed information from;
US mass shootings, 1982–2022: Data from Mother Jones’ investigation

Well, there's a good argument for banning ALL GUNS, so it all depends on how you look at it.
Yes, banning one type of gun and not others is not going to solve many of the problems. So, just ban them all, seems to be your way of looking at things (though we all know that's not what you're doing here).
Literally what you're doing is trying to trash one argument, and then refusing to connect all the arguments.
Like when a right wing person says "it's not the guns, it's mental health" "okay then, let's spend more on mental health" "[silence]"

 

[there4eyeM]

The "AR" is to firearms what drag queens are to men; it looks like a serious weapon of war and attracts "wannbes".

 

[M14 Shooter]

Nevertheless, I would like to treat the ownership of a gun the way the ownership of a car is treated.

No, not really.
To wit:

People should be required to get a license to own a gun. They should be required to take and pass a written test, and a test on the use of a gun.

You do not need a license to buy, own, or possess a car, or operate it on private property.
If you commit a crime with a car you get to keep all the other cars you have, and can buy as many more as you like.

The ownership of an unregistered gun should be an extremely serious offense, resulting in extremely severe punishment.

There's no demonstrable nececcirty for universal gun registration, and the requirement to register your gun violates the constitution.

Finally, I would like to repeal the Second Amendment.

It just takes 2/3 of Congress and 38 states to agree.
Get busy!
Until then - its there, and you don't get to ignore it.

 

[2aguy]

I dislike guns, but over the years I have become an agnostic about gun control. The proven way to reduce the crime rate is to increase the likelihood and severity of punishment. The way to fight crime is not to fight poverty,. The way to fight crime is to make punishment swift, certain, severe, frequent, and inexpensive.

Nevertheless, I would like to treat the ownership of a gun the way the ownership of a car is treated. People should be required to get a license to own a gun. They should be required to take and pass a written test, and a test on the use of a gun. They should be required to do a ballistics test on the gun. That way, if anyone is shot by the gun, it will be possible to trace the gun to the owner.

The ownership of an unregistered gun should be an extremely serious offense, resulting in extremely severe punishment.

Finally, I would like to repeal the Second Amendment.

Some people say we need guns to protect ourselves from the government. That is an argument that appeals to criminals and terrorists. I want the government to protect me from people like that.

You have a reasoned way of thinking...but it runs into major problems.....

The Constitution doesn't govern cars, it states the Right to own and carry guns cannot be infringed......then, you don't have a political party intent on banning cars..........well, you do, but banning cars is not as high on their list as banning guns. Any form of licensing requirement will be used no differently than poll taxes and literacy tests were used to stop blacks from voting, they will be used to keep people from being able to exercise the Right to own and carry a gun for self defense.....

And ballistics tests on guns are for movies......

Do you understand that the governments of Europe in the 1920s believed exactly as you do? That guns in the hands of normal people were dangerous? They used the same reasons you just put forth to begin registering, banning and confiscating guns?

By the mid 1930s the socialists in Germany began to use the registration lists to confiscate guns from their enemies.....then, in just 6 years, across the Europe, they murdered 15 million innocent men, women and children......

Meanwhile, here in the U.S......gun murder over our entire 246 year history is about 2,460,000........and the vast majority of those murdered are not innocent men, women and childrn, they are criminals, murdered by other criminals ......

Guns in the hands normal people keep the government in check....

Just ask Switzerland....there was no mass murder of innocents there....

THE SWISS WERE PREPARED TO FIGHT FACISM TO THE BITTER END | FRONTLINE | PBS

That is why the Nazis despised Switzerland. Joseph Goebbels called Switzerland "this stinking little state" where "sentiment has turned very much against us." Adolf Hitler decided that "all the rubbish of small nations still existing in Europe must be liquidated," even if it meant he would later "be attacked as the 'Butcher of the Swiss.'"

The 1940 Nazi invasion plan, Operation Tannenbaum, was not executed, and SS Oberst Hermann Bohme's 1943 memorandum warned that an invasion of Switzerland would be too costly because every man was armed and trained to shoot. This did not stop the Gestapo from preparing lists of Swiss to be liquidated once the Nazis overran the country.

The other European nations were easily toppled and had little means to wage a partisan war against the occupation. Once their standing armies were defeated, the governments capitulated and the populaces were defenseless.

Only in Switzerland was the entire populace armed and prepared to wage a relentless guerrilla war against an invader. When the war began in 1939, Switzerland mobilized 435,000 citizen soldiers out of a population of 4.2 million. Production figures for Swiss service rifles, which had firepower equal to those of the Germans, demonstrate an ample supply of small arms. Swiss militiamen were instructed to disregard any alleged "official" surrender as enemy propaganda and, if necessary, to fight individually. This meant that a nation of sharpshooters would be sniping at German soldiers at long ranges from every mountain.

While neutral, Switzerland was prepared to fight a Nazi invasion to the end. The celebrated Swiss Gen. Henri Guisan developed the strategy known as defense du reduit--an initial opposition followed by a retreat into the Alps, where a relentless war to the death would be waged. Most Swiss strongly opposed Nazism. Death sentences were issued for fifth-column activities, and proclamations against anti-Semitism were passed at various official levels. There was no Holocaust on Swiss soil, something that can not be said for France, the Netherlands, Poland or most of Europe.

 

[Hector12]

You have a reasoned way of thinking...but it runs into major problems.....

The Constitution doesn't govern cars, it states the Right to own and carry guns cannot be infringed

An amendment to the Constitution can be overturned by another amendment.

 

[Hector12]

No, not really.
To wit:

You do not need a license to buy, own, or possess a car, or operate it on private property.
If you commit a crime with a car you get to keep all the other cars you have, and can buy as many more as you like.

There's no demonstrable nececcirty for universal gun registration, and the requirement to register your gun violates the constitution.

It just takes 2/3 of Congress and 38 states to agree.
Get busy!
Until then - its there, and you don't get to ignore it.

The Constitution can be changed by another amendment. That is what I advocate.

 

[M14 Shooter]

The Constitution can be changed by another amendment. That is what I advocate.

It just takes 2/3 of Congress and 38 states to agree.
Get busy!
Until then:
The 2nd there, it -- necessarily and intentionally -- takes certain policy choices off the table, and you don't get to ignore it.

 

[Flash]

People who own these are the problem! Most who own firearms are low IQ can'tservatives!

Most of the people that use firearms in crimes are low IQ ghetto Negroes that vote for Democrats.

 

[Blaster]

People who own these are the problem! Most who own firearms are low IQ can'tservatives!

Actually just as many liberals own guns. You need facts to back up your argument.

 

[Blaster]

Banning AR-15 rifles will not reduce mass killings.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Actually just as many liberals own guns.

Conservatives are 3x more likely to own firearms than liberals.

What Percentage of Americans Own Guns?

Read Gallup's short answer to this common question about gun ownership, including what percentages of major demographic subgroups own guns.

news.gallup.com

You need facts to back up your argument.

 

[Concerned American]

They should be required to do a ballistics test on the gun.

This is not a bad idea, but it should be accomplished at the time of manufacture and sent to a central database before the gun is sold. The serial number on the gun would tie the two after sale. I believe that would pass constitutional muster as well. As far as licensing and testing go, those are infringements on a right. Do you have to have a license or pass a test in order to breathe?

 

[Concerned American]

Like when a right wing person says "it's not the guns, it's mental health" "okay then, let's spend more on mental health" "[silence]"

Careful, that silence from the left is deafening on the issue of mental health. The democrats have just passed a passel of new spending bills that have increased the debt by at least 25% since 2018 (it is more, but I'm being conservative) -- why was mental health ignored? They didn't waste any time debating more ineffective gun control.

 

[Blaster]

Conservatives are 3x more likely to own firearms than liberals.

View attachment 774143

What Percentage of Americans Own Guns?

Read Gallup's short answer to this common question about gun ownership, including what percentages of major demographic subgroups own guns.

news.gallup.com

You need facts to back up your argument.

That article is not accurate.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Well, there's a good argument for banning ALL GUNS, so it all depends on how you look at it.

Sure -- if you want to put people you disagree with into boxcars, there's a great argument for banning all guns.
Those people are why we have the 2nd Amendment,

Literally what you're doing is trying to trash one argument, and then refusing to connect all the arguments.

I made one argument, the one in the OP
And, apparently, you know you cannot argue against it.
Feel free to demonstrate otherwise.

 

[Concerned American]

That article is not accurate.

Do you have a link to anything to rebut his article? Inquiring minds would like to know.