The video I just saw from the trial of the Floyd incident with the audio of the crowd around looked pretty bad

[Leo123]

The poster "Cecilie" seems to be suggesting that if one resists an arrest (she doesn't offer any degree of resistance)....but she seemingly suggests that any objection opens one up to having "badness" inflicted on you while you lie on your belly on the street with hands cuffed behind you.

Look, it is like this, poster "Cecilie:......any resistance that Floyd had displayed to the police became unthreatening and moot once he was on his belly in the street wedged against the car and his hands cuffed behind him and with four officers kneeling on his neck, back, and legs.
His resisting was over. He posed no threat anymore.

Yet, one officer used his discretion to remain kneeling on Floyd's neck for nearly 10 minutes.....with about 5 minutes of those 10 occurring after Floyd had quit breathing.

'Resistance'.....even 'escalated' resistance......is subject to degrees.
And law enforcement's response is tied to proportionality.

What happened to Floyd was a criminal homicide.
What flavor of homicide will be determined by the jury and the judge.

Well, first of all, Floyd wasn't just objecting he was physically resisting. He was refusing to be put in the patrol car. He was screaming that he can't breathe while standing up with no one keeping him from doing so. Then, he said he has claustrophobia. He was clearly trying to thwart his arrest by making up shit and screaming and resisting. Floyd was treated with professionalism by the officers. Yes, they pointed a gun at him but he was being stopped for a FELONY!! They didn't shoot him and told him they were not going to do so yet he kept screaming "Don't shoot me!" He had to be physically put in the patrol car as well and then refused to stay there. So, please don't try to diminish Floyd's own responsibility here.

 

[BS Filter]

If you resist arrest, you escalate the possibility of badness ensuing, and that's on you.

The poster "Cecilie" seems to be suggesting that if one resists an arrest (she doesn't offer any degree of resistance)....but she seemingly suggests that any objection opens one up to having "badness" inflicted on you while you lie on your belly on the street with hands cuffed behind you.

Look, it is like this, poster "Cecilie:......any resistance that Floyd had displayed to the police became unthreatening and moot once he was on his belly in the street wedged against the car and his hands cuffed behind him and with four officers kneeling on his neck, back, and legs.
His resisting was over. He posed no threat anymore.

Yet, one officer used his discretion to remain kneeling on Floyd's neck for nearly 10 minutes.....with about 5 minutes of those 10 occurring after Floyd had quit breathing.

'Resistance'.....even 'escalated' resistance......is subject to degrees.
And law enforcement's response is tied to proportionality.

What happened to Floyd was a criminal homicide.
What flavor of homicide will be determined by the jury and the judge.

There weren't four cops on Floyd. Liar.

 

[BS Filter]

And maybe smaller guys afraid of anyone tall and big and black, shouldn't be a cop, and find a job more suitable for their capabilities.

The smaller cops did their jobs------------not their fault that the large criminal overdosed on drugs-----

Quit frankly, I am tired of the manipulation that I am hearing from you and other communist libs----its not about size. Criminals are often and bigger and stronger---hence why we have guns and criminals should be shot when they don't obey lawful commands. How twisted to push this narrative that the criminal is in the right because he was bigger or stronger than the cop.

These leftist vermin desire to see Minneapolis burn to the ground.

 

[Leo123]

And maybe smaller guys afraid of anyone tall and big and black, shouldn't be a cop, and find a job more suitable for their capabilities.

The smaller cops did their jobs------------not their fault that the large criminal overdosed on drugs-----

Quit frankly, I am tired of the manipulation that I am hearing from you and other communist libs----its not about size. Criminals are often and bigger and stronger---hence why we have guns and criminals should be shot when they don't obey lawful commands. How twisted to push this narrative that the criminal is in the right because he was bigger or stronger than the cop.

These leftist vermin desire to see Minneapolis burn to the ground.

Yes it's 'hang the cop or else" Chauvin will not get a fair trial.

 

[Chillicothe]

when he just passed a fake $20. He knows damn well what he did.

Well, poster 123, that particular assertion seems to be unsupported. So far. Unless you know differently. If you do. How?

Anyway, back-track up the thread and the only 'evidence'...to date....that we have about that fake $20 is that the clerk who received it, and his boss, the shop manager, testified they thought that Floyd was unaware it was fake.

So there is that.
.................................................................................

Is this a tragedy? Yes.
Was Floyd responsible? Yes.
Was Chauvin responsible? Yes.
The answer? Hang the cop........"

Poster 123, you answer your own speculation.
Floyd bore some responsibility for his death...to some degree
But, as often happens with death......he's dead.

Chauvin was responsible for the death....to some degree.
But, critically, he's here and now. And alive.

As such, society expects justice, our jurisprudence is charged with delivering it.
His share of 'responsibility' needs to be addressed, per our laws.
.
"Hang the cop"?....ah, no.
And I suspect poster 123 was just using hyperbole.
But short of hanging, there are other options.

We'll know them better, once the case is tried, a verdict rendered, and, if circumstances are such.....a sentence for that 'responsibility' levied.

 

[BS Filter]

Involuntarily manslaughter. Chauvin will get a couple years at the most, or most likely probation.

 

[Leo123]

when he just passed a fake $20. He knows damn well what he did.

Well, poster 123, that particular assertion seems to be unsupported. So far. Unless you know differently. If you do. How?

Anyway, back-track up the thread and the only 'evidence'...to date....that we have about that fake $20 is that the clerk who received it, and his boss, the shop manager, testified they thought that Floyd was unaware it was fake.

So there is that.
.................................................................................

Is this a tragedy? Yes.
Was Floyd responsible? Yes.
Was Chauvin responsible? Yes.
The answer? Hang the cop........"

Poster 123, you answer your own speculation.
Floyd bore some responsibility for his death...to some degree
But, as often happens with death......he's dead.

Chauvin was responsible for the death....to some degree.
But, critically, he's here and now. And alive.

As such, society expects justice, our jurisprudence is charged with delivering it.
His share of 'responsibility' needs to be addressed, per our laws.
.
"Hang the cop"?....ah, no.
And I suspect poster 123 was just using hyperbole.
But short of hanging, there are other options.

We'll know them better, once the case is tried, a verdict rendered, and, if circumstances are such.....a sentence for that 'responsibility' levied.

The cops were told they were chasing a felon...so there is that...Chauvin will not get a fair trial, so there is that....

 

[Leo123]

Involuntarily manslaughter. Chauvin will get a couple years at the most, or most likely probation.

That sentence may not be good enough for BLM though.

 

[ClaireH]

That poor man was held for 9 minutes unable to move. Sure he had his issues. So did I when I was younger. It doesn't mean I should have had my claustrophobia tested. Based on what saw? That cop was one of the bad cops.

Let’s say the claustrophobia part was totally made up. I’ll go even farther and say he was just trying to avoid going to jail. Chauvin exceeded the necessary time to hold down Floyd by what....3 minutes after he stopped “resisting”? Stupid comes in all occupations unfortunately.

Violent criminals who resisted arrest get held down on the ground ---------in this case for 10 minutes and you think it a crime to hold them down on the ground. Holding him on the ground with a knee did not kill this criminal-----------it did nothing to him other than hold him on the ground where he could not hurt the officers or other people and you think the cop committed some crime holding this violent criminal down?

Floyd died of drug overdose...not being held down.

I for one am really tired of the stupid------Floyd died of overdose--why is this concept so hard to grasp. The drugs suppressed his lungs which sent him into cardiac arrest which killed him. Cop holding him on ground did not kill him.

They feel bad when they see the video. That’s All they can relate to. They would not want that to happen to them is their sole impetus. There is an available solution other than vilifying the police-don’t be a drug addicted criminal.

I can’t argue against your implication that self-preservation is one of the strongest gifts mankind has (and will continue to have regardless of massive tech progress) to stay alive. I cannot say I want that to happen to me, but that extra part you added (it’s the sole reason people are upset from seeing this video because they don’t want it to happen to them) is only one of multiple reasons a person would react negatively to watching the videos. I’m sure the people in the crowd who watched the event play out don’t want that happening to them either, so we’re in agreement on that. People almost always, however, have more than one motive for most actions. We could go into numerous scenarios if you’d like to test out that theory.

 

[Leo123]

I can’t argue against your implication that self-preservation is one of the strongest gifts mankind has (and will continue to have regardless of massive tech progress) to stay alive. I cannot say I want that to happen to me, but that extra part you added (it’s the sole reason people are upset from seeing this video because they don’t want it to happen to them) is only one of multiple reasons a person would react negatively to watching the videos. I’m sure the people in the crowd who watched the event play out don’t want that happening to them either, so we’re in agreement on that. People almost always, however, have more than one motive for most actions. We could go into numerous scenarios if you’d like to test out that theory.

The only reason one would be afraid of that happening to them is if they themselves are a criminal druggie like Floyd. Most folks know they have a better chance of being struck by lightning on a clear day.

 

[Cecilie1200]

"not a criminal you likely won’t meet your demise at the hands of police,"

Oh, I don't think that nuance of this Floyd/Chauvin interaction was ever a point of discussion or concern.

Rather, Floyd, who admittedly, "resisted"....or "objected" ...to the way he was being handled could have some expectation .....as indeed American society and jurisprudence would too....but have the expectation that none of the 4 officers handling him would shortly kneel on his throat until he died while lying on his belly with arms handcuffed behind him.....on that very street, within minutes.

THAT bit of police 'discretion' seemed to be a tad over-the-top.

And, it appears that American society and our jurisprudence tends to follow that 'expectation' also

IMHO

Oh my God, would you STOP with the overheated, emotional, and incorrect rhetoric? It's bad enough with your hormonal declarations of "This is the truth, because I feelz that it is", but then you completely misuse words to try and drag everyone else into your melodramatic paroxysms.

No one was "kneeling on his throat" while he was "lying on his belly", because that would be physically impossible. The throat is specifically the front part of your neck, where your windpipe is, and it is facing the ground when you're lying on your belly. Furthermore, as has been pointed out ad nauseam on this very thread, the autopsy showed no evidence that the knee on his neck killed him.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Because you disagree does not make it a lie.

It is not a matter of disagreement. You lied. you are a liar. Further to the point I made that without the ‘knee on neck chokehold’ use by just about every police department in the country those police departments do not cease to exist. And you made no point to the contrary in your response. Because you can’t because you are a liar.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

You cant make this hypocrisy up.

You can start your book by explaining the hypocrisy you see in my statements.

 

[Cecilie1200]

If you resist arrest, you escalate the possibility of badness ensuing, and that's on you.

The poster "Cecilie" seems to be suggesting that if one resists an arrest (she doesn't offer any degree of resistance)....but she seemingly suggests that any objection opens one up to having "badness" inflicted on you while you lie on your belly on the street with hands cuffed behind you.

Look, it is like this, poster "Cecilie:......any resistance that Floyd had displayed to the police became unthreatening and moot once he was on his belly in the street wedged against the car and his hands cuffed behind him and with four officers kneeling on his neck, back, and legs.
His resisting was over. He posed no threat anymore.

Yet, one officer used his discretion to remain kneeling on Floyd's neck for nearly 10 minutes.....with about 5 minutes of those 10 occurring after Floyd had quit breathing.

'Resistance'.....even 'escalated' resistance......is subject to degrees.
And law enforcement's response is tied to proportionality.

What happened to Floyd was a criminal homicide.
What flavor of homicide will be determined by the jury and the judge.

I "suggested" nothing. I stated it outright: if you resist arrest, you are opening the door to bad things happening which would most likely not have happened had you not resisted arrest.

For the record, I am utterly ignoring the subsequent lapse into melodramatic and uninformed rhetoric designed to demand that everyone think with their glands the way you do.

Please cite for me your expertise in police procedure and subduing a person who is struggling and resisting, or the expert training material from which you were able to draw the assertion that "his resistance was unthreatening and moot and posed no threat to anyone". Because you are once again littering the ground with statements and assertions of "fact" that appear to be based on nothing but your opinion, and we've already established that your opinion is usually based on nothing more than whatever hormones are currently racing through your bloodstream.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

the autopsy showed no evidence that the knee on his neck killed him.

One autopsy did. The state coroner cited (heart failure which is the definition of death) as the cause of death and ruled it a homicide due to police actions. It was not ruled death by natural or any other medical cause.

 

[ClaireH]

I can’t argue against your implication that self-preservation is one of the strongest gifts mankind has (and will continue to have regardless of massive tech progress) to stay alive. I cannot say I want that to happen to me, but that extra part you added (it’s the sole reason people are upset from seeing this video because they don’t want it to happen to them) is only one of multiple reasons a person would react negatively to watching the videos. I’m sure the people in the crowd who watched the event play out don’t want that happening to them either, so we’re in agreement on that. People almost always, however, have more than one motive for most actions. We could go into numerous scenarios if you’d like to test out that theory.

The only reason one would be afraid of that happening to them is if they themselves are a criminal druggie like Floyd. Most folks know they have a better chance of being struck by lightning on a clear day.

Well Leo, I didn’t mean to imply that I am afraid of being arrested. I agreed with the statement that I wouldn’t want that happening to me. Generally speaking, you are 100% correct that only people doing criminal things should have a concern about being arrested, although there are misidentifications etc. that we know of that go on state to state as humans/tracking systems mess up.

I am no fan of having the thugs rule the streets. When a person commits a crime they should have consequences determined by law, immediate consequences in a perfect world. As of today and watching what I can of the trial, and see/ hear most of what the jury has been shown, I don’t envy those jury members. I need to review the legal definitions thoroughly to determine the most appropriate consequence and see how that matches with the jury. My crystal ball is as cloudy as ever but a hung jury seems most likely. If they’ve posted the name and addresses of these jurors that is a definite infringement of privacy in my mind and a risk to their safety if that’s accurate. I don’t have a source to back it up, but that’s what somebody wrote on another thread and that poster is usually on target with facts. I’ll check to verify a source.

 

[WEATHER53]

"not a criminal you likely won’t meet your demise at the hands of police,"

Oh, I don't think that nuance of this Floyd/Chauvin interaction was ever a point of discussion or concern.

Rather, Floyd, who admittedly, "resisted"....or "objected" ...to the way he was being handled could have some expectation .....as indeed American society and jurisprudence would too....but have the expectation that none of the 4 officers handling him would shortly kneel on his throat until he died while lying on his belly with arms handcuffed behind him.....on that very street, within minutes.

THAT bit of police 'discretion' seemed to be a tad over-the-top.

And, it appears that American society and our jurisprudence tends to follow that 'expectation' also

IMHO

He did not die On the scene but rather later. Pretty much if you are choked to death then you die right then and not hours later. Your expression does not even rise to the subjective level of”opinion”, its merely emotional frothing

 

[SC Patriot]

"not a criminal you likely won’t meet your demise at the hands of police,"

Oh, I don't think that nuance of this Floyd/Chauvin interaction was ever a point of discussion or concern.

Rather, Floyd, who admittedly, "resisted"....or "objected" ...to the way he was being handled could have some expectation .....as indeed American society and jurisprudence would too....but have the expectation that none of the 4 officers handling him would shortly kneel on his throat until he died while lying on his belly with arms handcuffed behind him.....on that very street, within minutes.

THAT bit of police 'discretion' seemed to be a tad over-the-top.

And, it appears that American society and our jurisprudence tends to follow that 'expectation' also

IMHO

He did not die On the scene but rather later. Pretty much if you are choked to deTh then it happens right then and not hours later. Your expression does not even rise to the subjective level of”opinion”, its merely emotional frothing

Just an FYI....my dad died of cardiac arrest. I watched him drop to the floor on his Birthday. My mom called 911 as I tended to him. within 15 minutes he was still alive and on the way to the hospital. He died in the ambulance.
But in reality, his death initiated on the floor in my moms house.

 

[WEATHER53]

Because you disagree does not make it a lie.

It is not a matter of disagreement. You lied. you are a liar. Further to the point I made that without the ‘knee on neck chokehold’ use by just about every police department in the country those police departments do not cease to exist. And you made no point to the contrary in your response. Because you can’t because you are a liar.

Screeching liar is like screeching racist; for those who cannot articulate an actual fact response. I assessed your comments and gave my response to them. You don’t like the response but have nothing to refute it so screech out” liar” like a child

 

[BS Filter]

Involuntarily manslaughter. Chauvin will get a couple years at the most, or most likely probation.

That sentence may not be good enough for BLM though.

Agree. Anything less than murder and life will result in Minneapolis being burned to the ground.