Zone1 The Vatican is not the home of the Catholic Church anymore (as is obvious?)

[nomadic5]

Uh, what are you talking about?
I know you like to pretend your clergy aren't a bunch of perverts, but how could they not be?

"Help Wanted, must have no interest in adult women and willing to spend a lot of time around kids. Oh, and we pay you next to no money."

The "priests" in the Vatican Sect, as I call it, are not validly ordained priests. They may not realize that.. maybe even most of them do not, but that appears to be exactly the case since we have not had a valid pope or valid bishops (to consecrate priests) since 1958.

The fact that theere was a takeover of the Vatican 65 years ago is proof enough for some of us (who know that) that...

I must be getting tired... Put it this way: all the perverts you see molesting children.. There is no way that many Catholics are going to go astray... and become perverts.

Again, these are NOT validly ordained CATHOLIC priests. Blame the secret societies who took over the Vatican.. blame the communists who joined them.

you have to admit this takeover "theory" (though it is not theory to ME)

explains the molestation, explains so much of what is going on in the "church" but it is not a church any longer (the Vatican...)

 

[JoeB131]

I must be getting tired... Put it this way: all the perverts you see molesting children.. There is no way that many Catholics are going to go astray... and become perverts.

Again, these are NOT validly ordained CATHOLIC priests. Blame the secret societies who took over the Vatican.. blame the communists who joined them.

As much as it pains me to defend the Catholic Church, the Catholic Church had this problem LONG before Vatican 2.

The only difference is people are telling their stories now.

I went to Catholic school back in the 1970's, and you knew back then all those guys were strange rangers.

 

[nomadic5]

As much as it pains me to defend the Catholic Church, the Catholic Church had this problem LONG before Vatican 2.

The only difference is people are telling their stories now.

I went to Catholic school back in the 1970's, and you knew back then all those guys were strange rangers.

Why does everyone seem to want to dismiss the story of how the Vatican was taken over by antiCatholic control freaks who didn't want to be told there actually is a moral code and God punishes evil doing?

I mean I bring up this most important story and all people do is post stuff like you did:

which amounts to

NUH uh! Catholics have always been pervs!

What a crock

There is twice as much child molesting in NON Catholic "churches" so called but no one ever wants to talk about that either...

sheez... fed up

 

[JoeB131]

Why does everyone seem to want to dismiss the story of how the Vatican was taken over by antiCatholic control freaks who didn't want to be told there actually is a moral code and God punishes evil doing?

Because, um, 1 billion Catholics don't see it that way... that's why. The number of Sedevacantists is probably not more than a few thousands.

I'm guessing that you are part of the small group of fanatics who didn't like it when Vatican 2 happened and they stopped doing mass in Latin and stopped blaming the Jews for killing Jesus. (Both positive developments, BTW).

I mean I bring up this most important story and all people do is post stuff like you did:

which amounts to

NUH uh! Catholics have always been pervs!

What a crock

There is twice as much child molesting in NON Catholic "churches" so called but no one ever wants to talk about that either...

Please don't mistake me for a Catholic apologist. The Vatican could burn down tomorrow, and I'd maybe be upset about the art museum.

But, yeah, when you have forced celibacy, you are going to have sexual deviants getting in through the ranks, because healthy heterosexuals will be doing a hard pass.

The coverups have been doing on for centuries.

 

[Meriweather]

I know you like to pretend your clergy aren't a bunch of perverts, but how could they not be?

Are you saying that you couldn't do it without becoming a pervert, therefore no one else can do it without becoming a pervert?

 

[Meriweather]

First, I really don't believe the universe is so badly designed that when I get to the afterlife, it's the Catholic God in charge.

Had you bothered with seeking and finding God, you would not call Him "the Catholic God".

 

[Meriweather]

Not happy where the country is going, but I'll be dead before you Bible Thumpers turn us into the Republic of Gilead.

What struck me most about Jesus' teachings is his lack of interest in politics or even politicians. He was focused, not on national matters, but on how people can get the most out of everyday life and how close and accessible Kingdom living is to each of us to work in our family and with our neighbors and colleagues.

Governments, Republics, etc. are a mess. But even when they are, Jesus taught us how live in spite of national governments/politics. That appears to be a message you did not get or you disregarded it.

 

[JoeB131]

Are you saying that you couldn't do it without becoming a pervert, therefore no one else can do it without becoming a pervert?

No, you see, I have a healthy interest in the opposite sex... so I wouldn't give that up for life.
Unlike the Catholic Clergy, who were all a little fruity.
Little Timmy starts singing show tunes, ship him off to a seminary!
Little Sally starts acting too butch? Send her off to a Convent.

Then this funny thing happened. The rest of society decided that it was okay to be gay. And their ability to recruit new priests and nuns plummeted.

Not that the Church would do anything as breathtakingly rational like letting married men become priests. Or women!

Had you bothered with seeking and finding God, you would not call Him "the Catholic God".

You see, I don't discount the notion that there MIGHT be a higher power. I just don't think he's so totally messed up that he'd throw you into Hell for all eternity for having the wrong kind of sex or eating meat on Friday during Lent. To quote Jean-Luc Picard, "I refuse to believe the universe is that badly designed."

What struck me most about Jesus' teachings is his lack of interest in politics or even politicians. He was focused, not on national matters, but on how people can get the most out of everyday life and how close and accessible Kingdom living is to each of us to work in our family and with our neighbors and colleagues.

He lived in a time when church and state were intertwined, which is why he was executed for heresy (supposedly; I still have my doubts he was anything but a literary device for Saul of Tarsus, the real founder of Christianity.)

Governments, Republics, etc. are a mess. But even when they are, Jesus taught us how live in spite of national governments/politics. That appears to be a message you did not get or you disregarded it.

Yeah, that was probably because the Catholics I grew up with didn't do that. I lived in Chicago where the Daley Dynasty was hip-deep in with the Catholic Church, where we got subjected to Fetus Porn starting in the fourth grade, (This was only a few years after Roe), and where the nuns told us to tell our parents what TV shows to boycott.

 

[Meriweather]

Yeah, that was probably because the Catholics I grew up with didn't do that.

As I said from the beginning...different realities. All Catholicism is to you is, "A priest did this! A nun did that!" You don't even recall people are not thrown into hell for venial sins (meat on Friday, sex sins). You don't recall that God doesn't throw anyone into hell--they choose to be there. One messed up Catholic kid.

My reality: Religion never was something that gets us to the next life. It is a guide to get us through this life. The next life will take care of itself. It is this life that is our immediate problem/concern. The Way (or the Code We Live By) makes a difference. Jesus had such a code, and his Way, his Code has been invaluable to me.

Somehow you ended up despising a nun who clumsily tried to say something meaningful to you in a heartbreaking moment. So you despise her and hold all priests and nuns in contempt. I had a nun who was deliberately very cruel to me, but in the end all I had was compassion for her obvious unhappiness. Different realities. I see priests and nuns as people with their own issues, but who still hope to find a way to serve God. Many are inspiring. Some, not so much.

In any case, you have been so busy hating the people of the Church, it seems you never gave God or gave Jesus a second thought. It is something you and nomadic5 seem to have in common--so focused with finding fault with and within an organization that God and the teachings of Christ fall unnoticed by the wayside. And that's a shame.

 

[nomadic5]

As I said from the beginning...different realities. All Catholicism is to you is, "A priest did this! A nun did that!" You don't even recall people are not thrown into hell for venial sins (meat on Friday, sex sins). You don't recall that God doesn't throw anyone into hell--they choose to be there. One messed up Catholic kid.

My reality: Religion never was something that gets us to the next life. It is a guide to get us through this life. The next life will take care of itself. It is this life that is our immediate problem/concern. The Way (or the Code We Live By) makes a difference. Jesus had such a code, and his Way, his Code has been invaluable to me.

Somehow you ended up despising a nun who clumsily tried to say something meaningful to you in a heartbreaking moment. So you despise her and hold all priests and nuns in contempt. I had a nun who was deliberately very cruel to me, but in the end all I had was compassion for her obvious unhappiness. Different realities. I see priests and nuns as people with their own issues, but who still hope to find a way to serve God. Many are inspiring. Some, not so much.

In any case, you have been so busy hating the people of the Church, it seems you never gave God or gave Jesus a second thought. It is something you and nomadic5 seem to have in common--so focused with finding fault with and within an organization that God and the teachings of Christ fall unnoticed by the wayside. And that's a shame.

amazing... how a poster can post really awesome, truth-based material and then ruin it all with one sentence. I refer to your reference to yours truly (highlighted). I have not said one thing in anything I've posted that shows I am .. what youdescribe, someone who is so focused on finding fault... etc. You don't know me from Adam, and so you are being presumptuous as hell. I have spoken nothing but the truth and I do not speak only of my own subjective truth but of objective Truth. You are not facing that Truth, which I say because I have never once seen a post or thread of yours in which you even ADDRESS the issues I have brought up viz Vatican II and all the mayhem that happened as a result thereof. You don't even address it, much less give any refuting "info" you may have yet you dismiss me as nothing but a fault-finder & put me in the same category as an anti-Catholic! That strikes me as incredibly DISHONEST.

Why do I have to resist the urge to say: I rest my case RE the "novus ordo church" so called?

 

[Meriweather]

I rest my case RE the "novus ordo church" so called?

And I rest mine...you speak of what is wrong with the Church...instead of how Christ is the way. Besides, I only speak of what I see of you here in the religion forum...not your entire life. As you rightly point out, I know nothing of that

 

[JoeB131]

As I said from the beginning...different realities. All Catholicism is to you is, "A priest did this! A nun did that!" You don't even recall people are not thrown into hell for venial sins (meat on Friday, sex sins). You don't recall that God doesn't throw anyone into hell--they choose to be there. One messed up Catholic kid.

Naw, I think I'm pretty much got my head on straight, because I started to suspect they were full of it when Sr. Mary Butch said the "Wicked" babies deserved to drown, and definitely confirmed it when Sr. Mary Lezbo said God had a good reason for my mom to die.

My reality: Religion never was something that gets us to the next life. It is a guide to get us through this life. The next life will take care of itself. It is this life that is our immediate problem/concern. The Way (or the Code We Live By) makes a difference. Jesus had such a code, and his Way, his Code has been invaluable to me.

But that's not what they taught. All the other churches were wrong and they were right.

As far as Jesus' Code, when I actually meet someone who follows it (not you, Christian Right), then I'll take it seriously. A MAGA hat and a crucifix should be counter-indicative, but they are not. Let's pay a porn star for sex, just like Jesus did.

Somehow you ended up despising a nun who clumsily tried to say something meaningful to you in a heartbreaking moment. So you despise her and hold all priests and nuns in contempt. I had a nun who was deliberately very cruel to me, but in the end all I had was compassion for her obvious unhappiness. Different realities. I see priests and nuns as people with their own issues, but who still hope to find a way to serve God. Many are inspiring. Some, not so much.

Uh, no, they were pretty cruel throughout the whole 12 year experience. After making my childhood miserable, the old witch had the nerve to say that? Yes, I am very sorry no one gave that old bat some sensible shoes and some scented candles, she might have been a less miserable person.

In any case, you have been so busy hating the people of the Church, it seems you never gave God or gave Jesus a second thought. It is something you and nomadic5 seem to have in common--so focused with finding fault with and within an organization that God and the teachings of Christ fall unnoticed by the wayside. And that's a shame.

The problem is the organization is corrupt by it's nature. It's the whole freaking history of Crusades, Inquisitions, witch burnings, Cadaver Trials, collaboration with the Nazis, and I could go on and on. Know them by their works. It's not just a few bad apples, it's centuries of empowering bad apples.

Although I do think the Cadaver Synod was still pretty funny in a morbid sort of way.

 

[Meriweather]

Naw, I think I'm pretty much got my head on straight

Not saying you don't. I am saying your reality is hatred of the Catholic Church.

You seem totally oblivious to Jesus' teachings, like none of these were ever integrated into your life or touched/influenced it in any way.

 

[nomadic5]

And I rest mine...you speak of what is wrong with the Church...instead of how Christ is the way. Besides, I only speak of what I see of you here in the religion forum...not your entire life. As you rightly point out, I know nothing of that

apparently you know nothing about what I say here either.

How you can come up with an assessment like the one you came up with is beyond me. If anything, I am more Catholic than most Catholics... (though of course only Jesus knows such) In any case, I am too Catholic to fall for a fake pope and fake clergy and fake Eucharist. Do I know with absolute certainty the Eucharist in the NO "church" is fake? All I have to go by is the information I have but that information is based on nothing but FACTS... historical and otherwise.. I do not base any of my beliefs on mere human emotion or what I want or choose to believe (bc it is expedient somehow).

 

[nomadic5]

And I rest mine...you speak of what is wrong with the Church...instead of how Christ is the way. Besides, I only speak of what I see of you here in the religion forum...not your entire life. As you rightly point out, I know nothing of that

As many a canonized saint (REALLY, truly canonized, not by a fake pope) have said

The Church IS Christ

 

[Meriweather]

How you can come up with an assessment like the one you came up

Because of the focus on Popes instead of on Christ.

 

[Meriweather]

The Church IS Christ

Correct. The Pope is not Christ. The Vatican is not Christ. It is the people, his followers who make up the Body of Christ. You are judging Popes.

 

[nomadic5]

Correct. The Pope is not Christ. The Vatican is not Christ. It is the people, his followers who make up the Body of Christ. You are judging Popes.

you are judging me.

I never said the pope should be in Hell (though I am concerned he will be and rightly so [to be concerned about such]).

THAT (saying he is going to Hell) is "judging"

To call out BS is not judging. It is what all Christians are required to do.

There is a psg in the Scriptures that says something about how in the last days, if it were possible, even the very elect of God would be deceived.

 

[nomadic5]

Correct. The Pope is not Christ. The Vatican is not Christ. It is the people, his followers who make up the Body of Christ. You are judging Popes.

Then you will be attending Sedevacantist Masses from now on?

 

[Meriweather]

you are judging me.

No. I am holding up a mirror of what you are doing here in the Religion Forum. I am merely trying to turn you away from Popes and Vaticans and towards Christ. Unless, of course, you believe Jesus is calling on you to smack various Popes and the Vatican. If so, I do not envy you your assignment.