The US Election -- Questions from outside the US

OP
B

Bernhard

Active Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2020
Messages
118
Reaction score
104
Points
43
Location
Berlin, Germany
Okay. So do you think this situation should just go on as before, or do you have ideas what could be done to improve it?
I have said this for over 20 years.half if not most the people in America are brainwashed sheep. They don’t get it that they were brainwashed by our corrupt school system what they were taught in history classes was all a lie that we elect our presidents when the facts are our presidents are SELECTED for us by the establishment,that whoever they want in office,they make sure their boy gets in office. Thst the president is just a puppet,if he does not do what his puppet masters tell him to do,they end up like Kennedy.he was our last real president we had,not a puppet for them and he paid the deadly price for it.

the sheep have also been brainwashed by their parents into thinking they should vote for the party they always voted for.our corrupt school system also did not tell us that there is no difference in the two party’s,that both parties are corrupt and one in the same,that it’s a one party system disguised as two so the sheep think they have a choice in who gets elected,anytime I provide proof here to trolls their party did the same thing The party they hate did,they lie and ignore the facts.

I have said this for over 20 years now that until we abolish this corrupt two party system we have,there is no hope for the future of America and the world,it’s long past the time that a revolution needs to happen and arrest all these criminal polticians in the country.
I won't agree with the "brainwashed sheep" part, because I don't want to step on the feet of anybody, but I've observed that over here too, most people are not particularly bright when it comes to politics and history.

Not necessarily blaming them ... many are just not very interested in politics, or how our system works, or in history ... yet they can be decent people. But that makes it easy for certain politicians to abuse this ignorance. Perhaps any politician from any side has to do that to some degree, in order to be successful.

Anyway, that said, I noticed that the American system appears to lean a bit more towards oligarchy than our system over here: For example, it looks to me that private donations are much more important for your politicians than for our's. I assume it's next to impossible to become, say, American President without certain private companies donating millions to you -- the same companies who own tv channels or online outlets and then make propaganda for you. Are we really supposed to believe a candidate who is elected this way will conduct independent policies in the interest of the people, rather than the interests of his donors?

Over here, we have the same problem, but less so ... private donations make less of the income of political parties, and there is public election cost funding: That means each party gets a certain share of their expenses in the campaign from the state, after the election, depending on the number of votes they got. This way, parties are at least a bit less dependent on private money ... though they still are.
This is a bit of a canard. Donations are part of our Free Speech, and many Candidates are funded by mostly the small-donors as opposed to the large donors - like Andrew Yang, for example, was the fundraising leader for much of the Primary and that was fueled by small donations.

There's also Laws against pay for play, and as easy it is to appeal to our cynical "it's all corrupt" nature...the two sides are in a constant "oversight" battle and have true spite and animosity for one another. If anyone doesn't believe that, they haven't watched any of the oversight hearings for a taste test.

That's not at all to say there's no corruption, but it's largely overstated which is always going to be the nature of any body comprised of hundreds of millions of people - like our Country.
Ah, when that's how it works, that's a good thing ... apparently, there are "checks and balances" against this kind of problem.

When I read about certain policies, both in the US and over here in Germany, I sometimes get the impression politicians are too concerned about the interests of certain big businesses ... but it could be my prejudice that gives me that impression.
 

Slade3200

Platinum Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
37,065
Reaction score
5,238
Points
1,140
As I'm not American, I've followed reports about the US election from the outside. What's most remarkable, for me, is that America seems to be so incredibly divided at the moment. It was bad already when I talked with Americans online 15 years ago, but now, it seems to be even worse.

So, my question to you is: What do you think is necessary to heal this division? If you're Democrat, what do you expect from Republicans to unite America again? If you're Republican, what do you think is necessary from the side of Democrats to make it the United States of America again?
Unfortunately I think there are going to need to be regulations on how our political leaders speak and campaign. A reform to our entire campaign finance system is desperately needed anyways to reduce the reliance on shady money and fundraising.

The division comes from two main elements. Degradation of civil discourse and a juiced up partisan media that caters only to extremists. People love drama to media and politicians are giving them drama by promoting conspiracies, using hyperbole, shock factor statements, and setting up their political opponents as evil.
As long as politicians use these tactics and they get boosted by the media, divisions will grow.

Trump was a steroid shot to all of this. Getting him out was a good first step. Biden taking a moderate approach is the right tone to take from the top. I hope he keeps it up. I’m still very worried about Trump TV and all the puppets that have clinched onto the Trump attack tactics. They’ve found some success with it so I don’t know how it now gets discouraged.
Yes I wondered about that, too ... what can be done to make public discourse civil again -- talking about the issues, not blaming people and inventing conspiracies?

I liked how moderate Biden sounded in his first speech... that he said he wants to be President even of those who didn't vote for him. That's a welcome change after 4 years when the President just kept praising himself and blaming other people for all kinds of things.

But can Biden even do what he promises? After all, he has to appease the more radical people within his party, too ... so can he even afford to be a uniter, or will he have to resort to divisive policies sooner or later?
Okay. So do you think this situation should just go on as before, or do you have ideas what could be done to improve it?
I have said this for over 20 years.half if not most the people in America are brainwashed sheep. They don’t get it that they were brainwashed by our corrupt school system what they were taught in history classes was all a lie that we elect our presidents when the facts are our presidents are SELECTED for us by the establishment,that whoever they want in office,they make sure their boy gets in office. Thst the president is just a puppet,if he does not do what his puppet masters tell him to do,they end up like Kennedy.he was our last real president we had,not a puppet for them and he paid the deadly price for it.

the sheep have also been brainwashed by their parents into thinking they should vote for the party they always voted for.our corrupt school system also did not tell us that there is no difference in the two party’s,that both parties are corrupt and one in the same,that it’s a one party system disguised as two so the sheep think they have a choice in who gets elected,anytime I provide proof here to trolls their party did the same thing The party they hate did,they lie and ignore the facts.

I have said this for over 20 years now that until we abolish this corrupt two party system we have,there is no hope for the future of America and the world,it’s long past the time that a revolution needs to happen and arrest all these criminal polticians in the country.
I won't agree with the "brainwashed sheep" part, because I don't want to step on the feet of anybody, but I've observed that over here in Germany too, most people are not particularly bright when it comes to politics and history.

Not necessarily blaming them ... many are just not very interested in politics, or how our system works, or in history ... yet they can be decent people. But that makes it easy for certain politicians to abuse this ignorance. Perhaps any politician from any side has to do that to some degree, in order to be successful.

Anyway, that said, I noticed that the American system appears to lean a bit more towards oligarchy than our system over here: For example, it looks to me that private donations are much more important for your politicians than for our's. I assume it's next to impossible to become, say, American President without certain private companies donating millions to you -- the same companies who own tv channels or online outlets and then make propaganda for you. Are we really supposed to believe a candidate who is elected this way will conduct independent policies in the interest of the people, rather than the interests of his donors?

Over here, we have the same problem, but less so ... private donations make less of the income of political parties, and there is public election cost funding: That means each party gets a certain share of their expenses in the campaign from the state, after the election, depending on the number of votes they got. This way, parties are at least a bit less dependent on private money ... though they still are.
as i said,until there is a revolution by the people to abolish this corrupt one party system we have disguised as two,there is no hope for the world because our government is the most corrupt government in the world,the CIA is an evil organization every bit as evil and demonic as the the third reich,they killed kennedy cause he tried to get rid of them and tried to abolish the fed which he would have succeeded at both had he lived to serve a second term.

He was on the verge of getting us back to the constitution where the people have control over the government instead of all these corporations that do now. He gears the first president to ever give the youth hope that they could change things for the better.he believed in peaceful open diologue with other world leaders and establishing world peace.

That’s why his assassination still maters today and still affects us all because our right to freely elect our own leaders was taken away from us thst day and the world would so much be a better place today now than it is. We would not have all these evil organizations as the CIA always starting wars around the country.

the world really started going downhill after the jfk assassination,it got so much worse under Lyndon Johnson,he reversed most of his policys.The world has been a craphole ever sense that fateful day.

the democrat party once used to be a respectable party under kennedy and later carter,now it has gone major downhill,kennedy is rolling over in his grave now how corrupt the party has become sense his heyday.
Bernie is calling for a Revolution. Do you feel the Bern?!
 

LA RAM FAN

Platinum Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2008
Messages
37,128
Reaction score
6,475
Points
1,130
As I'm not American, I've followed reports about the US election from the outside. What's most remarkable, for me, is that America seems to be so incredibly divided at the moment. It was bad already when I talked with Americans online 15 years ago, but now, it seems to be even worse.

So, my question to you is: What do you think is necessary to heal this division? If you're Democrat, what do you expect from Republicans to unite America again? If you're Republican, what do you think is necessary from the side of Democrats to make it the United States of America again?
Unfortunately I think there are going to need to be regulations on how our political leaders speak and campaign. A reform to our entire campaign finance system is desperately needed anyways to reduce the reliance on shady money and fundraising.

The division comes from two main elements. Degradation of civil discourse and a juiced up partisan media that caters only to extremists. People love drama to media and politicians are giving them drama by promoting conspiracies, using hyperbole, shock factor statements, and setting up their political opponents as evil.
As long as politicians use these tactics and they get boosted by the media, divisions will grow.

Trump was a steroid shot to all of this. Getting him out was a good first step. Biden taking a moderate approach is the right tone to take from the top. I hope he keeps it up. I’m still very worried about Trump TV and all the puppets that have clinched onto the Trump attack tactics. They’ve found some success with it so I don’t know how it now gets discouraged.
Yes I wondered about that, too ... what can be done to make public discourse civil again -- talking about the issues, not blaming people and inventing conspiracies?

I liked how moderate Biden sounded in his first speech... that he said he wants to be President even of those who didn't vote for him. That's a welcome change after 4 years when the President just kept praising himself and blaming other people for all kinds of things.

But can Biden even do what he promises? After all, he has to appease the more radical people within his party, too ... so can he even afford to be a uniter, or will he have to resort to divisive policies sooner or later?
Okay. So do you think this situation should just go on as before, or do you have ideas what could be done to improve it?
I have said this for over 20 years.half if not most the people in America are brainwashed sheep. They don’t get it that they were brainwashed by our corrupt school system what they were taught in history classes was all a lie that we elect our presidents when the facts are our presidents are SELECTED for us by the establishment,that whoever they want in office,they make sure their boy gets in office. Thst the president is just a puppet,if he does not do what his puppet masters tell him to do,they end up like Kennedy.he was our last real president we had,not a puppet for them and he paid the deadly price for it.

the sheep have also been brainwashed by their parents into thinking they should vote for the party they always voted for.our corrupt school system also did not tell us that there is no difference in the two party’s,that both parties are corrupt and one in the same,that it’s a one party system disguised as two so the sheep think they have a choice in who gets elected,anytime I provide proof here to trolls their party did the same thing The party they hate did,they lie and ignore the facts.

I have said this for over 20 years now that until we abolish this corrupt two party system we have,there is no hope for the future of America and the world,it’s long past the time that a revolution needs to happen and arrest all these criminal polticians in the country.
I won't agree with the "brainwashed sheep" part, because I don't want to step on the feet of anybody, but I've observed that over here in Germany too, most people are not particularly bright when it comes to politics and history.

Not necessarily blaming them ... many are just not very interested in politics, or how our system works, or in history ... yet they can be decent people. But that makes it easy for certain politicians to abuse this ignorance. Perhaps any politician from any side has to do that to some degree, in order to be successful.

Anyway, that said, I noticed that the American system appears to lean a bit more towards oligarchy than our system over here: For example, it looks to me that private donations are much more important for your politicians than for our's. I assume it's next to impossible to become, say, American President without certain private companies donating millions to you -- the same companies who own tv channels or online outlets and then make propaganda for you. Are we really supposed to believe a candidate who is elected this way will conduct independent policies in the interest of the people, rather than the interests of his donors?

Over here, we have the same problem, but less so ... private donations make less of the income of political parties, and there is public election cost funding: That means each party gets a certain share of their expenses in the campaign from the state, after the election, depending on the number of votes they got. This way, parties are at least a bit less dependent on private money ... though they still are.
as i said,until there is a revolution by the people to abolish this corrupt one party system we have disguised as two,there is no hope for the world because our government is the most corrupt government in the world,the CIA is an evil organization every bit as evil and demonic as the the third reich,they killed kennedy cause he tried to get rid of them and tried to abolish the fed which he would have succeeded at both had he lived to serve a second term.

He was on the verge of getting us back to the constitution where the people have control over the government instead of all these corporations that do now. He gears the first president to ever give the youth hope that they could change things for the better.he believed in peaceful open diologue with other world leaders and establishing world peace.

That’s why his assassination still maters today and still affects us all because our right to freely elect our own leaders was taken away from us thst day and the world would so much be a better place today now than it is. We would not have all these evil organizations as the CIA always starting wars around the country.

the world really started going downhill after the jfk assassination,it got so much worse under Lyndon Johnson,he reversed most of his policys.The world has been a craphole ever sense that fateful day.

the democrat party once used to be a respectable party under kennedy and later carter,now it has gone major downhill,kennedy is rolling over in his grave now how corrupt the party has become sense his heyday.
Bernie is calling for a Revolution. Do you feel the Bern?!
Talk is cheap by bernie,I want to see some action.
 

G.T.

Diamond Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
77,323
Reaction score
12,316
Points
2,180
As I'm not American, I've followed reports about the US election from the outside. What's most remarkable, for me, is that America seems to be so incredibly divided at the moment. It was bad already when I talked with Americans online 15 years ago, but now, it seems to be even worse.

So, my question to you is: What do you think is necessary to heal this division? If you're Democrat, what do you expect from Republicans to unite America again? If you're Republican, what do you think is necessary from the side of Democrats to make it the United States of America again?
Well, we're not that divided for one thing. While 170M voted, there are 130M+ who don't care enough to vote. Of the 170M who did vote, I would imagine about 40M are truly hopelessly red or blue. The rest of us are of the 170M are shades of purple.

In our system, the Federal government is set up to where the President can't do much without the numbers in both chambers of our Congress. So it only makes sense to vote for all democrats or all republicans at the federal level. The politics are such today where if you're a Republican working with democrats or vice versa you get shunned by Party bosses. So nobody does it. Had our politics been different, I may have voted for a senator from Arizona named Martha McSally. She is pretty much the poster child for a modern American woman. I mean...shit. Father died when she was a teenager, went to the Air Force Academy, Graduated from freaking Harvard. Flew the A-10 Warthog.... This isn't a high altitude bomber...the A10 is almost like a flying tank. I couldn't imagine the guts it takes to strap this plane on to your body and take it into combat as she did in Afghanistan. The only thing that kept me from voting for her was the R next to her name. Like I said in our system....if you don't have the Presidency and Both Houses....you're nowhere. When she runs for Governor (if she runs), she has my vote. I will probably campaign for her. I love this woman. And I left off a few things I could have mentioned that would add gloss to her halo. Her politics is at odds with mine often but wanting to serve goes a long way with me. And, as an executive, I think you'd see her lead from the center-right.

And I think if more of us who are politically aware actually studied the deeper resumes of those who are candidates, not only would we be better served but you'd probably see some ballot splitting where you don't expect to see it.

What could bring us together? Well...we have a group of people who believe conspiracy theories instead of logic. The only thing that could change them...perhaps...is their fellow republicans to set them straight.
Do you think that something about the political system should be changed, in order to open the door for more bipartisan cooperation, or, in other words, that this is less the result of stubborn people in politics, but more of a system where "the winner takes it all"?

I find political systems in different countries very interesting. It strikes me about the American system that it seems to be very focused on polarization: It's either one party that wins, or the other.

While for example here in Germany, it seems like we have the opposite problem ... our system forces our parties to compromise all the time. So much that many people turn away from the parties, because they feel "they are all the same anyway". In fact, for the past 15 years, our two largest parties have formed a coalition government most of the time (11 years, to be exact).

So... on one side, we don't have this extremely toxic polarization ... but on the other, I feel we'd have a better choice if there was less of compromising all the time.
I had an idea the other day:

You put term limits into play but have the statute read as follows:

"No person shall serve more than ___ terms for one political party".

So you'd see these guys who like their jobs (and who are liked by the voters) jumping into another political party to keep their seats in Congress. This would give rise to a third or even fourth party.
That's an interesting idea.

To me, a lot of the cynical nature that comes with a Conservative minded person is cashed in on with this age of 24/7 Media. The worst of them seem to believe in any trope that tells them they're being fucked over in some way, any way and at all times.

Its rather disgusting to me that folks who are smart enough to know better, like a Limbaugh for example, game that shit all the way to the bank. Meanwhile others, like a Hannity for instance, are true believers in all that is cynical. Obama is secretly a Muslim, for example, was a good play for the post 9/11 era to dupe these morons with.

You key in on messaging toward the cynical nature of these folks for a few decades...truth and lie becomes blurred over time and you get what we have now.

Hillary Clinton eats babies based on 6-degrees separation based nonsense, and we have millions of enraged, head fucked morons who don't understand how she's POSSIBLY not in Prison.
I think if you were to give most of these shit-brained incels here truth serum, you'd find about 10% actually 100% believe the shit they spew. The other 90 would be somewhere between wanting to believe and skeptical but not wanting to sayso.

Most are just here to get a rise out of the other side of course. Dogbiscuit hasn't made a serious post yet for example.
I don't have much optimism for the message-board ones. There's some level of extremism that's gotten them to where they're at. I'd like to say that I witnessed the birth of this whole "liberals are cockroaches" movement on the internet back when Sean Hannity promoted his message-board in the early 2000s, but then I saw some things Reagan would say...and Newt...and Karl Rove and those guys. Familiarized myself with Bill O'Reilly and Limbaugh...they were slow-pumping this propaganda all day every day and had the most listeners, too. Saying things that were easily verified as false, or misleading...and apparently doing so purposely, to engineer something. They clued in on something that maybe... they did it initially for political advantage and didn't realize how batshit insane it would become...but gott-damn it's certainly become that.
 

LA RAM FAN

Platinum Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2008
Messages
37,128
Reaction score
6,475
Points
1,130
As I'm not American, I've followed reports about the US election from the outside. What's most remarkable, for me, is that America seems to be so incredibly divided at the moment. It was bad already when I talked with Americans online 15 years ago, but now, it seems to be even worse.

So, my question to you is: What do you think is necessary to heal this division? If you're Democrat, what do you expect from Republicans to unite America again? If you're Republican, what do you think is necessary from the side of Democrats to make it the United States of America again?
Unfortunately I think there are going to need to be regulations on how our political leaders speak and campaign. A reform to our entire campaign finance system is desperately needed anyways to reduce the reliance on shady money and fundraising.

The division comes from two main elements. Degradation of civil discourse and a juiced up partisan media that caters only to extremists. People love drama to media and politicians are giving them drama by promoting conspiracies, using hyperbole, shock factor statements, and setting up their political opponents as evil.
As long as politicians use these tactics and they get boosted by the media, divisions will grow.

Trump was a steroid shot to all of this. Getting him out was a good first step. Biden taking a moderate approach is the right tone to take from the top. I hope he keeps it up. I’m still very worried about Trump TV and all the puppets that have clinched onto the Trump attack tactics. They’ve found some success with it so I don’t know how it now gets discouraged.
Yes I wondered about that, too ... what can be done to make public discourse civil again -- talking about the issues, not blaming people and inventing conspiracies?

I liked how moderate Biden sounded in his first speech... that he said he wants to be President even of those who didn't vote for him. That's a welcome change after 4 years when the President just kept praising himself and blaming other people for all kinds of things.

But can Biden even do what he promises? After all, he has to appease the more radical people within his party, too ... so can he even afford to be a uniter, or will he have to resort to divisive policies sooner or later?
I understand you not being a big fan of trump and all,I’m not either,I only wanted I him in office because the alternative of hitlery a warmonger was five times worse. I hate how trump pats himself on the back as well but it’s the same thing again,the alternative of Biden is five times worse as well,he is a Warhawk,he went along with Obama illegally starting wars going along with that mass murderer and has deep ties to communist China,it’s that who you REALLY want In? I would think you would say no. Trump for all his faults,was the first president sense carter to not start any new wars,thst is why the elite want him out of office so badly and cooked up,the most massive mail fraud in ever in mankind history,the evidence has Been shown that over and over again and every single trump hater has failed to debunk it. :lmao:
 

G.T.

Diamond Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
77,323
Reaction score
12,316
Points
2,180
Okay. So do you think this situation should just go on as before, or do you have ideas what could be done to improve it?
I have said this for over 20 years.half if not most the people in America are brainwashed sheep. They don’t get it that they were brainwashed by our corrupt school system what they were taught in history classes was all a lie that we elect our presidents when the facts are our presidents are SELECTED for us by the establishment,that whoever they want in office,they make sure their boy gets in office. Thst the president is just a puppet,if he does not do what his puppet masters tell him to do,they end up like Kennedy.he was our last real president we had,not a puppet for them and he paid the deadly price for it.

the sheep have also been brainwashed by their parents into thinking they should vote for the party they always voted for.our corrupt school system also did not tell us that there is no difference in the two party’s,that both parties are corrupt and one in the same,that it’s a one party system disguised as two so the sheep think they have a choice in who gets elected,anytime I provide proof here to trolls their party did the same thing The party they hate did,they lie and ignore the facts.

I have said this for over 20 years now that until we abolish this corrupt two party system we have,there is no hope for the future of America and the world,it’s long past the time that a revolution needs to happen and arrest all these criminal polticians in the country.
I won't agree with the "brainwashed sheep" part, because I don't want to step on the feet of anybody, but I've observed that over here too, most people are not particularly bright when it comes to politics and history.

Not necessarily blaming them ... many are just not very interested in politics, or how our system works, or in history ... yet they can be decent people. But that makes it easy for certain politicians to abuse this ignorance. Perhaps any politician from any side has to do that to some degree, in order to be successful.

Anyway, that said, I noticed that the American system appears to lean a bit more towards oligarchy than our system over here: For example, it looks to me that private donations are much more important for your politicians than for our's. I assume it's next to impossible to become, say, American President without certain private companies donating millions to you -- the same companies who own tv channels or online outlets and then make propaganda for you. Are we really supposed to believe a candidate who is elected this way will conduct independent policies in the interest of the people, rather than the interests of his donors?

Over here, we have the same problem, but less so ... private donations make less of the income of political parties, and there is public election cost funding: That means each party gets a certain share of their expenses in the campaign from the state, after the election, depending on the number of votes they got. This way, parties are at least a bit less dependent on private money ... though they still are.
This is a bit of a canard. Donations are part of our Free Speech, and many Candidates are funded by mostly the small-donors as opposed to the large donors - like Andrew Yang, for example, was the fundraising leader for much of the Primary and that was fueled by small donations.

There's also Laws against pay for play, and as easy it is to appeal to our cynical "it's all corrupt" nature...the two sides are in a constant "oversight" battle and have true spite and animosity for one another. If anyone doesn't believe that, they haven't watched any of the oversight hearings for a taste test.

That's not at all to say there's no corruption, but it's largely overstated which is always going to be the nature of any body comprised of hundreds of millions of people - like our Country.
Ah, when that's how it works, that's a good thing ... apparently, there are "checks and balances" against this kind of problem.

When I read about certain policies, both in the US and over here in Germany, I sometimes get the impression politicians are too concerned about the interests of certain big businesses ... but it could be my prejudice that gives me that impression.
Well they have to pander, no doubt, but that's their job - to Represent those that put them into their Representative position.

A lot of the allegations of corruption are smoke and mirrors ways to maintain power. The better Angels of our Nature would previously have realized...yeah, they talk a lot of shit but since there's been years of investigations and no arrests - these things are probably mostly just bullshit. But not since the internet - if you can point to a news story that points to a blog that points to an Op-Ed, that's better than what these oversight committees are able to present under Oath, now.

Somehow.

Magically.

And then the Meuller report, the second to last sentence literally says that it does not Exonerate the President...and we've had 1.5 years of messaging now that says it was the "Russia Hoax" and that he's completely exonerated. Nevermind that as a result of THIS investigation, there actually WERE convictions in Courts of Law, and Prison sentences actually granted. It's all a cartoon, to these guys. According to what, the same report that says it's not true...he's exonerated? Weird. Because of the FISA warrant that had incompetence attached to it but WASNT EVEN THE JUSTIFICATION FOR THE INVESTIGATION in the first place.

You can pick up on these misleading lies/nuances if you watch the actual hearings, while folks are under oath and duress of Prosecution. The right will have 5 minutes to ask questions, "weren't there gross, negligent errors in the FISA warrant process?"

Witness says: Yes.

Right says :AHA, GOTYA!!! RUSSIA HOAX!!

But then the Left gets their time to question the same witness.... "but isn't the FISA warrant a separate issue, and was not even the justification for the investigation in the first place?"

Witness says: "Yes, thats correct."



Right wing messageboards sprint to their keyboards, parrot what Trump says, and call it a narrative.
 

Slade3200

Platinum Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
37,065
Reaction score
5,238
Points
1,140
As I'm not American, I've followed reports about the US election from the outside. What's most remarkable, for me, is that America seems to be so incredibly divided at the moment. It was bad already when I talked with Americans online 15 years ago, but now, it seems to be even worse.

So, my question to you is: What do you think is necessary to heal this division? If you're Democrat, what do you expect from Republicans to unite America again? If you're Republican, what do you think is necessary from the side of Democrats to make it the United States of America again?
Unfortunately I think there are going to need to be regulations on how our political leaders speak and campaign. A reform to our entire campaign finance system is desperately needed anyways to reduce the reliance on shady money and fundraising.

The division comes from two main elements. Degradation of civil discourse and a juiced up partisan media that caters only to extremists. People love drama to media and politicians are giving them drama by promoting conspiracies, using hyperbole, shock factor statements, and setting up their political opponents as evil.
As long as politicians use these tactics and they get boosted by the media, divisions will grow.

Trump was a steroid shot to all of this. Getting him out was a good first step. Biden taking a moderate approach is the right tone to take from the top. I hope he keeps it up. I’m still very worried about Trump TV and all the puppets that have clinched onto the Trump attack tactics. They’ve found some success with it so I don’t know how it now gets discouraged.
Yes I wondered about that, too ... what can be done to make public discourse civil again -- talking about the issues, not blaming people and inventing conspiracies?

I liked how moderate Biden sounded in his first speech... that he said he wants to be President even of those who didn't vote for him. That's a welcome change after 4 years when the President just kept praising himself and blaming other people for all kinds of things.

But can Biden even do what he promises? After all, he has to appease the more radical people within his party, too ... so can he even afford to be a uniter, or will he have to resort to divisive policies sooner or later?
I understand you not being a big fan of trump and all,I’m not either,I only wanted I him in office because the alternative of hitlery a warmonger was five times worse. I hate how trump pats himself on the back as well but it’s the same thing again,the alternative of Biden is five times worse as well,he is a Warhawk,he went along with Obama illegally starting wars going along with that mass murderer and has deep ties to communist China,it’s that who you REALLY want In? I would think you would say no. Trump for all his faults,was the first president sense carter to not start any new wars,thst is why the elite want him out of office so badly and cooked up,the most massive mail fraud in ever in mankind history,the evidence has Been shown that over and over again and every single trump hater has failed to debunk it. :lmao:
I think it is very easy to be against wars from a state of ignorance. Once you’re aware of all the threats and intel and ultimately responsible for the safety and security of a nation, things may change. Trump pulling troops from Afghanistan right now is all political gamesmanship to put Biden in a pickle
 
OP
B

Bernhard

Active Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2020
Messages
118
Reaction score
104
Points
43
Location
Berlin, Germany
As I'm not American, I've followed reports about the US election from the outside. What's most remarkable, for me, is that America seems to be so incredibly divided at the moment. It was bad already when I talked with Americans online 15 years ago, but now, it seems to be even worse.

So, my question to you is: What do you think is necessary to heal this division? If you're Democrat, what do you expect from Republicans to unite America again? If you're Republican, what do you think is necessary from the side of Democrats to make it the United States of America again?
Unfortunately I think there are going to need to be regulations on how our political leaders speak and campaign. A reform to our entire campaign finance system is desperately needed anyways to reduce the reliance on shady money and fundraising.

The division comes from two main elements. Degradation of civil discourse and a juiced up partisan media that caters only to extremists. People love drama to media and politicians are giving them drama by promoting conspiracies, using hyperbole, shock factor statements, and setting up their political opponents as evil.
As long as politicians use these tactics and they get boosted by the media, divisions will grow.

Trump was a steroid shot to all of this. Getting him out was a good first step. Biden taking a moderate approach is the right tone to take from the top. I hope he keeps it up. I’m still very worried about Trump TV and all the puppets that have clinched onto the Trump attack tactics. They’ve found some success with it so I don’t know how it now gets discouraged.
Yes I wondered about that, too ... what can be done to make public discourse civil again -- talking about the issues, not blaming people and inventing conspiracies?

I liked how moderate Biden sounded in his first speech... that he said he wants to be President even of those who didn't vote for him. That's a welcome change after 4 years when the President just kept praising himself and blaming other people for all kinds of things.

But can Biden even do what he promises? After all, he has to appease the more radical people within his party, too ... so can he even afford to be a uniter, or will he have to resort to divisive policies sooner or later?
I understand you not being a big fan of trump and all,I’m not either,I only wanted I him in office because the alternative of hitlery a warmonger was five times worse. I hate how trump pats himself on the back as well but it’s the same thing again,the alternative of Biden is five times worse as well,he is a Warhawk,he went along with Obama illegally starting wars going along with that mass murderer and has deep ties to communist China,it’s that who you REALLY want In? I would think you would say no. Trump for all his faults,was the first president sense carter to not start any new wars,thst is why the elite want him out of office so badly and cooked up,the most massive mail fraud in ever in mankind history,the evidence has Been shown that over and over again and every single trump hater has failed to debunk it. :lmao:
If you're interested, I can tell you why I don't like Trump and am mildly hopeful about Biden ... not meaning to attack you in any way.

It's that I think the free republics/democracies (I mean the free states with separation of powers, free elections and so on), the Western World, should cooperate and be united when addressing global problems. Like, for example, global streams of refugees than are threatening to overrun our countries, or climate change, or the rise of ugly dictatorships abroad.

I like to think of our free countries as a community, the Western World, which shares certain values: That there must be checks and balances in government, that minority rights must be protected, that the government is not above the law and that free elections determine our leaders. These values make us different from other countries, and dare I say, they make us better than other countries.

My problem with Trump is that he gave up this view: He attempted to become best buddies with ugly, disgusting tyrants abroad, such as Russia's Putin who poisons regime critics and let's his agents shoot them, who abolished free media and feeds the people state controlled propaganda and who invades neighboring countries to take away their freedom -- and at the same time, Trump treated his free, republican European allies like enemies. For Trump, there is no such thing as a "Western World" and he does not believe that free republican systems must support each other -- he'd rather make deals with tyrants. Trump has given up the role America used to play after ever since World War II, namely to be "the leader of the Free World" who uses his power to defend democracy and freedom even abroad.

In some cases, I see where Trump is coming from ... for example, I agree that unlimited illegal immigration is not a good thing. Or that Germany pays too few for NATO protection. Or that the ever increasing globalization of the economy of the past decades must be limited and perhaps reduced in some areas. But I still can't get around the impression that Trump was throwing "the West" under the bus in his attempt to act in a nationalistic manner. Also, his buddy friendship with Putin gives me the creeps.

I could tell you more about the geo-strategic implication that I think are at play here, but I think I'll leave it at that for now. Just ask if you want me to explain more about my feelings.

As for Biden, I'm not amazed about him, but I think he'll at least be a "normal" President, like all the other American Presidents between 1945 and 2016: One who believes in freedom and republican/democratic government, and will support free countries in need. He'll not hurl insults at foreign leaders just to please his fanbase, he will not constantly blame others for his faults and if he'll be diselected in 4 years, he will not spew lies that damage the great free American system, but accept the will of the people.
 
OP
B

Bernhard

Active Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2020
Messages
118
Reaction score
104
Points
43
Location
Berlin, Germany
As I'm not American, I've followed reports about the US election from the outside. What's most remarkable, for me, is that America seems to be so incredibly divided at the moment. It was bad already when I talked with Americans online 15 years ago, but now, it seems to be even worse.

So, my question to you is: What do you think is necessary to heal this division? If you're Democrat, what do you expect from Republicans to unite America again? If you're Republican, what do you think is necessary from the side of Democrats to make it the United States of America again?
Unfortunately I think there are going to need to be regulations on how our political leaders speak and campaign. A reform to our entire campaign finance system is desperately needed anyways to reduce the reliance on shady money and fundraising.

The division comes from two main elements. Degradation of civil discourse and a juiced up partisan media that caters only to extremists. People love drama to media and politicians are giving them drama by promoting conspiracies, using hyperbole, shock factor statements, and setting up their political opponents as evil.
As long as politicians use these tactics and they get boosted by the media, divisions will grow.

Trump was a steroid shot to all of this. Getting him out was a good first step. Biden taking a moderate approach is the right tone to take from the top. I hope he keeps it up. I’m still very worried about Trump TV and all the puppets that have clinched onto the Trump attack tactics. They’ve found some success with it so I don’t know how it now gets discouraged.
Yes I wondered about that, too ... what can be done to make public discourse civil again -- talking about the issues, not blaming people and inventing conspiracies?

I liked how moderate Biden sounded in his first speech... that he said he wants to be President even of those who didn't vote for him. That's a welcome change after 4 years when the President just kept praising himself and blaming other people for all kinds of things.

But can Biden even do what he promises? After all, he has to appease the more radical people within his party, too ... so can he even afford to be a uniter, or will he have to resort to divisive policies sooner or later?
I understand you not being a big fan of trump and all,I’m not either,I only wanted I him in office because the alternative of hitlery a warmonger was five times worse. I hate how trump pats himself on the back as well but it’s the same thing again,the alternative of Biden is five times worse as well,he is a Warhawk,he went along with Obama illegally starting wars going along with that mass murderer and has deep ties to communist China,it’s that who you REALLY want In? I would think you would say no. Trump for all his faults,was the first president sense carter to not start any new wars,thst is why the elite want him out of office so badly and cooked up,the most massive mail fraud in ever in mankind history,the evidence has Been shown that over and over again and every single trump hater has failed to debunk it. :lmao:
I think it is very easy to be against wars from a state of ignorance. Once you’re aware of all the threats and intel and ultimately responsible for the safety and security of a nation, things may change. Trump pulling troops from Afghanistan right now is all political gamesmanship to put Biden in a pickle
I for one am very glad that America waged war against my country in 1941 and liberated us from fascism.

Just saying.
 

Slade3200

Platinum Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
37,065
Reaction score
5,238
Points
1,140
As I'm not American, I've followed reports about the US election from the outside. What's most remarkable, for me, is that America seems to be so incredibly divided at the moment. It was bad already when I talked with Americans online 15 years ago, but now, it seems to be even worse.

So, my question to you is: What do you think is necessary to heal this division? If you're Democrat, what do you expect from Republicans to unite America again? If you're Republican, what do you think is necessary from the side of Democrats to make it the United States of America again?
Unfortunately I think there are going to need to be regulations on how our political leaders speak and campaign. A reform to our entire campaign finance system is desperately needed anyways to reduce the reliance on shady money and fundraising.

The division comes from two main elements. Degradation of civil discourse and a juiced up partisan media that caters only to extremists. People love drama to media and politicians are giving them drama by promoting conspiracies, using hyperbole, shock factor statements, and setting up their political opponents as evil.
As long as politicians use these tactics and they get boosted by the media, divisions will grow.

Trump was a steroid shot to all of this. Getting him out was a good first step. Biden taking a moderate approach is the right tone to take from the top. I hope he keeps it up. I’m still very worried about Trump TV and all the puppets that have clinched onto the Trump attack tactics. They’ve found some success with it so I don’t know how it now gets discouraged.
Yes I wondered about that, too ... what can be done to make public discourse civil again -- talking about the issues, not blaming people and inventing conspiracies?

I liked how moderate Biden sounded in his first speech... that he said he wants to be President even of those who didn't vote for him. That's a welcome change after 4 years when the President just kept praising himself and blaming other people for all kinds of things.

But can Biden even do what he promises? After all, he has to appease the more radical people within his party, too ... so can he even afford to be a uniter, or will he have to resort to divisive policies sooner or later?
I understand you not being a big fan of trump and all,I’m not either,I only wanted I him in office because the alternative of hitlery a warmonger was five times worse. I hate how trump pats himself on the back as well but it’s the same thing again,the alternative of Biden is five times worse as well,he is a Warhawk,he went along with Obama illegally starting wars going along with that mass murderer and has deep ties to communist China,it’s that who you REALLY want In? I would think you would say no. Trump for all his faults,was the first president sense carter to not start any new wars,thst is why the elite want him out of office so badly and cooked up,the most massive mail fraud in ever in mankind history,the evidence has Been shown that over and over again and every single trump hater has failed to debunk it. :lmao:
I think it is very easy to be against wars from a state of ignorance. Once you’re aware of all the threats and intel and ultimately responsible for the safety and security of a nation, things may change. Trump pulling troops from Afghanistan right now is all political gamesmanship to put Biden in a pickle
I for one am very glad that America waged war against my country in 1941 and liberated us from fascism.

Just saying.
Me too. My grandfather was in that war. Can you imagine the world today had we not United to defeat that regime?!

There Is actually a pretty good TV series based on that reality. It’s called The Man in the High Castle if you’re interested.
 
OP
B

Bernhard

Active Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2020
Messages
118
Reaction score
104
Points
43
Location
Berlin, Germany
Okay. So do you think this situation should just go on as before, or do you have ideas what could be done to improve it?
I have said this for over 20 years.half if not most the people in America are brainwashed sheep. They don’t get it that they were brainwashed by our corrupt school system what they were taught in history classes was all a lie that we elect our presidents when the facts are our presidents are SELECTED for us by the establishment,that whoever they want in office,they make sure their boy gets in office. Thst the president is just a puppet,if he does not do what his puppet masters tell him to do,they end up like Kennedy.he was our last real president we had,not a puppet for them and he paid the deadly price for it.

the sheep have also been brainwashed by their parents into thinking they should vote for the party they always voted for.our corrupt school system also did not tell us that there is no difference in the two party’s,that both parties are corrupt and one in the same,that it’s a one party system disguised as two so the sheep think they have a choice in who gets elected,anytime I provide proof here to trolls their party did the same thing The party they hate did,they lie and ignore the facts.

I have said this for over 20 years now that until we abolish this corrupt two party system we have,there is no hope for the future of America and the world,it’s long past the time that a revolution needs to happen and arrest all these criminal polticians in the country.
I won't agree with the "brainwashed sheep" part, because I don't want to step on the feet of anybody, but I've observed that over here too, most people are not particularly bright when it comes to politics and history.

Not necessarily blaming them ... many are just not very interested in politics, or how our system works, or in history ... yet they can be decent people. But that makes it easy for certain politicians to abuse this ignorance. Perhaps any politician from any side has to do that to some degree, in order to be successful.

Anyway, that said, I noticed that the American system appears to lean a bit more towards oligarchy than our system over here: For example, it looks to me that private donations are much more important for your politicians than for our's. I assume it's next to impossible to become, say, American President without certain private companies donating millions to you -- the same companies who own tv channels or online outlets and then make propaganda for you. Are we really supposed to believe a candidate who is elected this way will conduct independent policies in the interest of the people, rather than the interests of his donors?

Over here, we have the same problem, but less so ... private donations make less of the income of political parties, and there is public election cost funding: That means each party gets a certain share of their expenses in the campaign from the state, after the election, depending on the number of votes they got. This way, parties are at least a bit less dependent on private money ... though they still are.
This is a bit of a canard. Donations are part of our Free Speech, and many Candidates are funded by mostly the small-donors as opposed to the large donors - like Andrew Yang, for example, was the fundraising leader for much of the Primary and that was fueled by small donations.

There's also Laws against pay for play, and as easy it is to appeal to our cynical "it's all corrupt" nature...the two sides are in a constant "oversight" battle and have true spite and animosity for one another. If anyone doesn't believe that, they haven't watched any of the oversight hearings for a taste test.

That's not at all to say there's no corruption, but it's largely overstated which is always going to be the nature of any body comprised of hundreds of millions of people - like our Country.
Ah, when that's how it works, that's a good thing ... apparently, there are "checks and balances" against this kind of problem.

When I read about certain policies, both in the US and over here in Germany, I sometimes get the impression politicians are too concerned about the interests of certain big businesses ... but it could be my prejudice that gives me that impression.
Well they have to pander, no doubt, but that's their job - to Represent those that put them into their Representative position.

A lot of the allegations of corruption are smoke and mirrors ways to maintain power. The better Angels of our Nature would previously have realized...yeah, they talk a lot of shit but since there's been years of investigations and no arrests - these things are probably mostly just bullshit. But not since the internet - if you can point to a news story that points to a blog that points to an Op-Ed, that's better than what these oversight committees are able to present under Oath, now.

Somehow.

Magically.

And then the Meuller report, the second to last sentence literally says that it does not Exonerate the President...and we've had 1.5 years of messaging now that says it was the "Russia Hoax" and that he's completely exonerated. Nevermind that as a result of THIS investigation, there actually WERE convictions in Courts of Law, and Prison sentences actually granted. It's all a cartoon, to these guys. According to what, the same report that says it's not true...he's exonerated? Weird. Because of the FISA warrant that had incompetence attached to it but WASNT EVEN THE JUSTIFICATION FOR THE INVESTIGATION in the first place.

You can pick up on these misleading lies/nuances if you watch the actual hearings, while folks are under oath and duress of Prosecution. The right will have 5 minutes to ask questions, "weren't there gross, negligent errors in the FISA warrant process?"

Witness says: Yes.

Right says :AHA, GOTYA!!! RUSSIA HOAX!!

But then the Left gets their time to question the same witness.... "but isn't the FISA warrant a separate issue, and was not even the justification for the investigation in the first place?"

Witness says: "Yes, thats correct."



Right wing messageboards sprint to their keyboards, parrot what Trump says, and call it a narrative.
Somewhat related, I'm very concerned about the meddling Russia engages in here in Europe.

There are a couple of anti-republican far-right parties in the European countries over here, populist parties which gather voters with anti-system sentiments. Some of them are interspersed with genuine neo-Nazis who'd abolish our freedom if given the chance, do away with freedom of speech, independent courts and free elections. Among them are, for example, the German AfD, the French Front National or the Italian Lega Nord.

Russia is massively supporting this populist far-right in Europe, financially as well as ideologically. Not long ago, Russian officials invited representants of these far-right European parties to Moscow, in order to foster a strategy how to defeat democracy in Europe. Needless to say, these populist parties in Europe are in favor of ending NATO membership and cooperation with the US, in favor of getting closer to Russia.

Also, Russia exerts a massive propaganda campaign online in EU countries: A significant minority in Germany watches "Russia Today" online, which offers a German language service, and Russia does the same in other EU countries. In this Russian propaganda, fake news are presented that are supposed to erode the trust of European peoples in their free republican systems -- to the benefit of Russia. And Russia has "troll factories" where thousands of people are employed, to influence social media with inciting fake news that are supposed to create division and fuel unrest.

Much like the European radical left used to be a "fifth column" for the communist Soviet Union in the 1960s and 70s, the right-wing populists of today have become useful idiots for a newly emerged imperialistic Russian autocracy.
 
Last edited:

Turtlesoup

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2020
Messages
4,497
Reaction score
5,319
Points
1,903
As I'm not American, I've followed reports about the US election from the outside. What's most remarkable, for me, is that America seems to be so incredibly divided at the moment. It was bad already when I talked with Americans online 15 years ago, but now, it seems to be even worse.

So, my question to you is: What do you think is necessary to heal this division? If you're Democrat, what do you expect from Republicans to unite America again? If you're Republican, what do you think is necessary from the side of Democrats to make it the United States of America again?
We are dying as a nation. There is no healing. We are a corrupt government collapsing in on itself like Rome did over generations...
Our two parties are both corrupt----brought off with bribes silenced with leverage (true or false).
They need to keep the US in chaos and at each others throats in order for them to stay in power hence and to hide their crimes. To admit how corrupt our leadership is to invite brown shirts, foreign enemies,and even our people to rise up and attack.


Anything less than a violent revolution by the non-hippies (we need a military take over by someone who is doing it for country not power and that just is very very unlikely to happen given even our military are political sell outs) to even have any chance now. We allowed to much trash in and allowed to much corruption to go on for to long. The Dice are already cast.
 
OP
B

Bernhard

Active Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2020
Messages
118
Reaction score
104
Points
43
Location
Berlin, Germany
As I'm not American, I've followed reports about the US election from the outside. What's most remarkable, for me, is that America seems to be so incredibly divided at the moment. It was bad already when I talked with Americans online 15 years ago, but now, it seems to be even worse.

So, my question to you is: What do you think is necessary to heal this division? If you're Democrat, what do you expect from Republicans to unite America again? If you're Republican, what do you think is necessary from the side of Democrats to make it the United States of America again?
Unfortunately I think there are going to need to be regulations on how our political leaders speak and campaign. A reform to our entire campaign finance system is desperately needed anyways to reduce the reliance on shady money and fundraising.

The division comes from two main elements. Degradation of civil discourse and a juiced up partisan media that caters only to extremists. People love drama to media and politicians are giving them drama by promoting conspiracies, using hyperbole, shock factor statements, and setting up their political opponents as evil.
As long as politicians use these tactics and they get boosted by the media, divisions will grow.

Trump was a steroid shot to all of this. Getting him out was a good first step. Biden taking a moderate approach is the right tone to take from the top. I hope he keeps it up. I’m still very worried about Trump TV and all the puppets that have clinched onto the Trump attack tactics. They’ve found some success with it so I don’t know how it now gets discouraged.
Yes I wondered about that, too ... what can be done to make public discourse civil again -- talking about the issues, not blaming people and inventing conspiracies?

I liked how moderate Biden sounded in his first speech... that he said he wants to be President even of those who didn't vote for him. That's a welcome change after 4 years when the President just kept praising himself and blaming other people for all kinds of things.

But can Biden even do what he promises? After all, he has to appease the more radical people within his party, too ... so can he even afford to be a uniter, or will he have to resort to divisive policies sooner or later?
I understand you not being a big fan of trump and all,I’m not either,I only wanted I him in office because the alternative of hitlery a warmonger was five times worse. I hate how trump pats himself on the back as well but it’s the same thing again,the alternative of Biden is five times worse as well,he is a Warhawk,he went along with Obama illegally starting wars going along with that mass murderer and has deep ties to communist China,it’s that who you REALLY want In? I would think you would say no. Trump for all his faults,was the first president sense carter to not start any new wars,thst is why the elite want him out of office so badly and cooked up,the most massive mail fraud in ever in mankind history,the evidence has Been shown that over and over again and every single trump hater has failed to debunk it. :lmao:
I think it is very easy to be against wars from a state of ignorance. Once you’re aware of all the threats and intel and ultimately responsible for the safety and security of a nation, things may change. Trump pulling troops from Afghanistan right now is all political gamesmanship to put Biden in a pickle
I for one am very glad that America waged war against my country in 1941 and liberated us from fascism.

Just saying.
Me too. My grandfather was in that war. Can you imagine the world today had we not United to defeat that regime?!

There Is actually a pretty good TV series based on that reality. It’s called The Man in the High Castle if you’re interested.
Kudos to your grandfather! Also thanks to his brave service, we can talk with each other online today in friendship. If America had stayed out, it's well possible that tens of millions people more would have been murdered and I wouldn't sit here, but be forced to train granade throwing in the army now.

Hey, I've seen that series! It was pretty good. Some found the ending a bit lame, but I found it okay, as it's hard to find a truly good ending for such a show.

Also made me wonder a bit ... how did my grandparents' generation experience the defeat of their country in 1945? Do they feel like they were reduced to cowards selling Nazi memorabilia to Americans?

Anyway, I for one am glad I can live in freedom and democracy today, thanks to America. And I'm not fond of American Presidents who give up that spirit.
 

G.T.

Diamond Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
77,323
Reaction score
12,316
Points
2,180
Okay. So do you think this situation should just go on as before, or do you have ideas what could be done to improve it?
I have said this for over 20 years.half if not most the people in America are brainwashed sheep. They don’t get it that they were brainwashed by our corrupt school system what they were taught in history classes was all a lie that we elect our presidents when the facts are our presidents are SELECTED for us by the establishment,that whoever they want in office,they make sure their boy gets in office. Thst the president is just a puppet,if he does not do what his puppet masters tell him to do,they end up like Kennedy.he was our last real president we had,not a puppet for them and he paid the deadly price for it.

the sheep have also been brainwashed by their parents into thinking they should vote for the party they always voted for.our corrupt school system also did not tell us that there is no difference in the two party’s,that both parties are corrupt and one in the same,that it’s a one party system disguised as two so the sheep think they have a choice in who gets elected,anytime I provide proof here to trolls their party did the same thing The party they hate did,they lie and ignore the facts.

I have said this for over 20 years now that until we abolish this corrupt two party system we have,there is no hope for the future of America and the world,it’s long past the time that a revolution needs to happen and arrest all these criminal polticians in the country.
I won't agree with the "brainwashed sheep" part, because I don't want to step on the feet of anybody, but I've observed that over here too, most people are not particularly bright when it comes to politics and history.

Not necessarily blaming them ... many are just not very interested in politics, or how our system works, or in history ... yet they can be decent people. But that makes it easy for certain politicians to abuse this ignorance. Perhaps any politician from any side has to do that to some degree, in order to be successful.

Anyway, that said, I noticed that the American system appears to lean a bit more towards oligarchy than our system over here: For example, it looks to me that private donations are much more important for your politicians than for our's. I assume it's next to impossible to become, say, American President without certain private companies donating millions to you -- the same companies who own tv channels or online outlets and then make propaganda for you. Are we really supposed to believe a candidate who is elected this way will conduct independent policies in the interest of the people, rather than the interests of his donors?

Over here, we have the same problem, but less so ... private donations make less of the income of political parties, and there is public election cost funding: That means each party gets a certain share of their expenses in the campaign from the state, after the election, depending on the number of votes they got. This way, parties are at least a bit less dependent on private money ... though they still are.
This is a bit of a canard. Donations are part of our Free Speech, and many Candidates are funded by mostly the small-donors as opposed to the large donors - like Andrew Yang, for example, was the fundraising leader for much of the Primary and that was fueled by small donations.

There's also Laws against pay for play, and as easy it is to appeal to our cynical "it's all corrupt" nature...the two sides are in a constant "oversight" battle and have true spite and animosity for one another. If anyone doesn't believe that, they haven't watched any of the oversight hearings for a taste test.

That's not at all to say there's no corruption, but it's largely overstated which is always going to be the nature of any body comprised of hundreds of millions of people - like our Country.
Ah, when that's how it works, that's a good thing ... apparently, there are "checks and balances" against this kind of problem.

When I read about certain policies, both in the US and over here in Germany, I sometimes get the impression politicians are too concerned about the interests of certain big businesses ... but it could be my prejudice that gives me that impression.
Well they have to pander, no doubt, but that's their job - to Represent those that put them into their Representative position.

A lot of the allegations of corruption are smoke and mirrors ways to maintain power. The better Angels of our Nature would previously have realized...yeah, they talk a lot of shit but since there's been years of investigations and no arrests - these things are probably mostly just bullshit. But not since the internet - if you can point to a news story that points to a blog that points to an Op-Ed, that's better than what these oversight committees are able to present under Oath, now.

Somehow.

Magically.

And then the Meuller report, the second to last sentence literally says that it does not Exonerate the President...and we've had 1.5 years of messaging now that says it was the "Russia Hoax" and that he's completely exonerated. Nevermind that as a result of THIS investigation, there actually WERE convictions in Courts of Law, and Prison sentences actually granted. It's all a cartoon, to these guys. According to what, the same report that says it's not true...he's exonerated? Weird. Because of the FISA warrant that had incompetence attached to it but WASNT EVEN THE JUSTIFICATION FOR THE INVESTIGATION in the first place.

You can pick up on these misleading lies/nuances if you watch the actual hearings, while folks are under oath and duress of Prosecution. The right will have 5 minutes to ask questions, "weren't there gross, negligent errors in the FISA warrant process?"

Witness says: Yes.

Right says :AHA, GOTYA!!! RUSSIA HOAX!!

But then the Left gets their time to question the same witness.... "but isn't the FISA warrant a separate issue, and was not even the justification for the investigation in the first place?"

Witness says: "Yes, thats correct."



Right wing messageboards sprint to their keyboards, parrot what Trump says, and call it a narrative.
Somewhat related, I'm very concerned about the meddling Russia engages in here in Europe.

There are a couple of anti-republican far-right parties in the European countries over here, populist parties which gather voters with anti-system sentiments. Some of them are interspersed with genuine neo-Nazis who'd abolish our freedom if given the chance, do away with freedom of speech, independent courts and free elections. Among them are, for example, the German AfD, the French Front National or the Italian Lega Nord.

Russia is massively supporting this populist far-right in Europe, financially as well as ideologically. Not long ago, Russian officials invited representants of these far-right European parties to Moscow, in order to foster a strategy how to defeat democracy in Europe. Needless to say, these populist parties in Europe are in favor of ending NATO membership and cooperation with the US, in favor of getting closer to Russia.

Also, Russia exerts a massive propaganda campaign online in EU countries: A significant minority in Germany watches "Russia Today" online, which offers a German language service, and Russia does the same in other EU countries. In this Russian propaganda, fake news are presented that are supposed to erode the trust of European peoples in their free republican systems -- to the benefit of Russia. And Russia has "troll factories" where thousands of people are employed, to influence social media with inciting fake news that are supposed to create division and fuel unrest.

Much like the European radical left used to be a "fifth column" for the communist Soviet Union, the right-wing populists of today have become useful idiots for a newly emerged imperialistic Russian autocracy.
I've seen some UK Citizens on this actual board fall for Conspiracy Theory bullshit that's likely a part of what you're talking about. What's sad, is, is they take genuinely innate sentiments about Liberty and use them to smuggle in Authoritarianism.

That's the essence of the Trump cult. He pays lip service to Liberty, de-regulation and America first - - - and the Cult has BECOME a cult due to that lip service...and then like the essence of a true Cult, its members fail to recognize that he's not anything but the opposite of what he espouses. Trump first, not America first. My regulation, not deregulation. Grow the Government, explode the debt if it favors my Economic picture for re-election. Throw shade at sensible best-practices your OWN pandemic team are promoting amidst a pandemic to pander to your sycophants. Say there's cheating before there's evidence, promote that anticipated pockets of human error equate to "widespread fraud and conspiracy" in a last-ditch effort to clutch your power.

This is upside-down world territory, here.
 
OP
B

Bernhard

Active Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2020
Messages
118
Reaction score
104
Points
43
Location
Berlin, Germany
Okay. So do you think this situation should just go on as before, or do you have ideas what could be done to improve it?
I have said this for over 20 years.half if not most the people in America are brainwashed sheep. They don’t get it that they were brainwashed by our corrupt school system what they were taught in history classes was all a lie that we elect our presidents when the facts are our presidents are SELECTED for us by the establishment,that whoever they want in office,they make sure their boy gets in office. Thst the president is just a puppet,if he does not do what his puppet masters tell him to do,they end up like Kennedy.he was our last real president we had,not a puppet for them and he paid the deadly price for it.

the sheep have also been brainwashed by their parents into thinking they should vote for the party they always voted for.our corrupt school system also did not tell us that there is no difference in the two party’s,that both parties are corrupt and one in the same,that it’s a one party system disguised as two so the sheep think they have a choice in who gets elected,anytime I provide proof here to trolls their party did the same thing The party they hate did,they lie and ignore the facts.

I have said this for over 20 years now that until we abolish this corrupt two party system we have,there is no hope for the future of America and the world,it’s long past the time that a revolution needs to happen and arrest all these criminal polticians in the country.
I won't agree with the "brainwashed sheep" part, because I don't want to step on the feet of anybody, but I've observed that over here too, most people are not particularly bright when it comes to politics and history.

Not necessarily blaming them ... many are just not very interested in politics, or how our system works, or in history ... yet they can be decent people. But that makes it easy for certain politicians to abuse this ignorance. Perhaps any politician from any side has to do that to some degree, in order to be successful.

Anyway, that said, I noticed that the American system appears to lean a bit more towards oligarchy than our system over here: For example, it looks to me that private donations are much more important for your politicians than for our's. I assume it's next to impossible to become, say, American President without certain private companies donating millions to you -- the same companies who own tv channels or online outlets and then make propaganda for you. Are we really supposed to believe a candidate who is elected this way will conduct independent policies in the interest of the people, rather than the interests of his donors?

Over here, we have the same problem, but less so ... private donations make less of the income of political parties, and there is public election cost funding: That means each party gets a certain share of their expenses in the campaign from the state, after the election, depending on the number of votes they got. This way, parties are at least a bit less dependent on private money ... though they still are.
This is a bit of a canard. Donations are part of our Free Speech, and many Candidates are funded by mostly the small-donors as opposed to the large donors - like Andrew Yang, for example, was the fundraising leader for much of the Primary and that was fueled by small donations.

There's also Laws against pay for play, and as easy it is to appeal to our cynical "it's all corrupt" nature...the two sides are in a constant "oversight" battle and have true spite and animosity for one another. If anyone doesn't believe that, they haven't watched any of the oversight hearings for a taste test.

That's not at all to say there's no corruption, but it's largely overstated which is always going to be the nature of any body comprised of hundreds of millions of people - like our Country.
Ah, when that's how it works, that's a good thing ... apparently, there are "checks and balances" against this kind of problem.

When I read about certain policies, both in the US and over here in Germany, I sometimes get the impression politicians are too concerned about the interests of certain big businesses ... but it could be my prejudice that gives me that impression.
Well they have to pander, no doubt, but that's their job - to Represent those that put them into their Representative position.

A lot of the allegations of corruption are smoke and mirrors ways to maintain power. The better Angels of our Nature would previously have realized...yeah, they talk a lot of shit but since there's been years of investigations and no arrests - these things are probably mostly just bullshit. But not since the internet - if you can point to a news story that points to a blog that points to an Op-Ed, that's better than what these oversight committees are able to present under Oath, now.

Somehow.

Magically.

And then the Meuller report, the second to last sentence literally says that it does not Exonerate the President...and we've had 1.5 years of messaging now that says it was the "Russia Hoax" and that he's completely exonerated. Nevermind that as a result of THIS investigation, there actually WERE convictions in Courts of Law, and Prison sentences actually granted. It's all a cartoon, to these guys. According to what, the same report that says it's not true...he's exonerated? Weird. Because of the FISA warrant that had incompetence attached to it but WASNT EVEN THE JUSTIFICATION FOR THE INVESTIGATION in the first place.

You can pick up on these misleading lies/nuances if you watch the actual hearings, while folks are under oath and duress of Prosecution. The right will have 5 minutes to ask questions, "weren't there gross, negligent errors in the FISA warrant process?"

Witness says: Yes.

Right says :AHA, GOTYA!!! RUSSIA HOAX!!

But then the Left gets their time to question the same witness.... "but isn't the FISA warrant a separate issue, and was not even the justification for the investigation in the first place?"

Witness says: "Yes, thats correct."



Right wing messageboards sprint to their keyboards, parrot what Trump says, and call it a narrative.
Somewhat related, I'm very concerned about the meddling Russia engages in here in Europe.

There are a couple of anti-republican far-right parties in the European countries over here, populist parties which gather voters with anti-system sentiments. Some of them are interspersed with genuine neo-Nazis who'd abolish our freedom if given the chance, do away with freedom of speech, independent courts and free elections. Among them are, for example, the German AfD, the French Front National or the Italian Lega Nord.

Russia is massively supporting this populist far-right in Europe, financially as well as ideologically. Not long ago, Russian officials invited representants of these far-right European parties to Moscow, in order to foster a strategy how to defeat democracy in Europe. Needless to say, these populist parties in Europe are in favor of ending NATO membership and cooperation with the US, in favor of getting closer to Russia.

Also, Russia exerts a massive propaganda campaign online in EU countries: A significant minority in Germany watches "Russia Today" online, which offers a German language service, and Russia does the same in other EU countries. In this Russian propaganda, fake news are presented that are supposed to erode the trust of European peoples in their free republican systems -- to the benefit of Russia. And Russia has "troll factories" where thousands of people are employed, to influence social media with inciting fake news that are supposed to create division and fuel unrest.

Much like the European radical left used to be a "fifth column" for the communist Soviet Union, the right-wing populists of today have become useful idiots for a newly emerged imperialistic Russian autocracy.
I've seen some UK Citizens on this actual board fall for Conspiracy Theory bullshit that's likely a part of what you're talking about. What's sad, is, is they take genuinely innate sentiments about Liberty and use them to smuggle in Authoritarianism.

That's the essence of the Trump cult. He pays lip service to Liberty, de-regulation and America first - - - and the Cult has BECOME a cult due to that lip service...and then like the essence of a true Cult, its members fail to recognize that he's not anything but the opposite of what he espouses. Trump first, not America first. My regulation, not deregulation. Grow the Government, explode the debt if it favors my Economic picture for re-election. Throw shade at sensible best-practices your OWN pandemic team are promoting amidst a pandemic to pander to your sycophants. Say there's cheating before there's evidence, promote that anticipated pockets of human error equate to "widespread fraud and conspiracy" in a last-ditch effort to clutch your power.

This is upside-down world territory, here.
Yeah, I wondered about that, too ... I mean, some of Trump's policies were the opposite of classic Republican ideas ... for example, he massively increased American debts, or didn't he?

Also, Reagan for example, was all about free trade, reducing government and so on ... but Trump abolished free trade deals and turned to economic protectionism. My feeling is that most Republicans would have called this "socialism", if a Democrat had proposed the very same thing before 2016.

I don't necessarily agree with classic Republican ideas, but I understand where they were coming from ... reducing taxes to make government smaller, the idea that when you take a burden from businesses, it will give them a boom and even workers will benefit. But fair enough, I can perfectly accept such opinions as legitimate ideas for what's good for the country. But Trump was big government all the way ...

Also, I wonder how so many Christians could accept this man so easily, the same Christians who rightfully were appaled because of Bill Clinton's abuse scandal in the 90s. I mean seriously, a guy who openly admitted he cheated on his wife, who dumped her in favor of a porn star and talked about pussy grabbing on national tv?

I guess one can never underestimate the inconsistency of people's opinions. Maybe myself not excluded. :/
 

G.T.

Diamond Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
77,323
Reaction score
12,316
Points
2,180

“Fascist politics transforms politics into a battlefield. And in the battlefield … you don’t care if your opponent is speaking truth or not. They’re the enemy. They want to kill you,” Stanley said in a subsequent interview with NPR. “If your leader says false things, it doesn’t matter. He’s trying to win the battle, win the war for you. So that’s the structure. And then you delegitimize the media by connecting them to your opponent, saying it’s one big conspiracy to undermine the nation, and then only you are the savior. Only you can save things. People have to have blind faith in you. And Trump has created that kind of connection between him and his supporters.”

The Trump cult will be studied for years to come.
 

G.T.

Diamond Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
77,323
Reaction score
12,316
Points
2,180
Okay. So do you think this situation should just go on as before, or do you have ideas what could be done to improve it?
I have said this for over 20 years.half if not most the people in America are brainwashed sheep. They don’t get it that they were brainwashed by our corrupt school system what they were taught in history classes was all a lie that we elect our presidents when the facts are our presidents are SELECTED for us by the establishment,that whoever they want in office,they make sure their boy gets in office. Thst the president is just a puppet,if he does not do what his puppet masters tell him to do,they end up like Kennedy.he was our last real president we had,not a puppet for them and he paid the deadly price for it.

the sheep have also been brainwashed by their parents into thinking they should vote for the party they always voted for.our corrupt school system also did not tell us that there is no difference in the two party’s,that both parties are corrupt and one in the same,that it’s a one party system disguised as two so the sheep think they have a choice in who gets elected,anytime I provide proof here to trolls their party did the same thing The party they hate did,they lie and ignore the facts.

I have said this for over 20 years now that until we abolish this corrupt two party system we have,there is no hope for the future of America and the world,it’s long past the time that a revolution needs to happen and arrest all these criminal polticians in the country.
I won't agree with the "brainwashed sheep" part, because I don't want to step on the feet of anybody, but I've observed that over here too, most people are not particularly bright when it comes to politics and history.

Not necessarily blaming them ... many are just not very interested in politics, or how our system works, or in history ... yet they can be decent people. But that makes it easy for certain politicians to abuse this ignorance. Perhaps any politician from any side has to do that to some degree, in order to be successful.

Anyway, that said, I noticed that the American system appears to lean a bit more towards oligarchy than our system over here: For example, it looks to me that private donations are much more important for your politicians than for our's. I assume it's next to impossible to become, say, American President without certain private companies donating millions to you -- the same companies who own tv channels or online outlets and then make propaganda for you. Are we really supposed to believe a candidate who is elected this way will conduct independent policies in the interest of the people, rather than the interests of his donors?

Over here, we have the same problem, but less so ... private donations make less of the income of political parties, and there is public election cost funding: That means each party gets a certain share of their expenses in the campaign from the state, after the election, depending on the number of votes they got. This way, parties are at least a bit less dependent on private money ... though they still are.
This is a bit of a canard. Donations are part of our Free Speech, and many Candidates are funded by mostly the small-donors as opposed to the large donors - like Andrew Yang, for example, was the fundraising leader for much of the Primary and that was fueled by small donations.

There's also Laws against pay for play, and as easy it is to appeal to our cynical "it's all corrupt" nature...the two sides are in a constant "oversight" battle and have true spite and animosity for one another. If anyone doesn't believe that, they haven't watched any of the oversight hearings for a taste test.

That's not at all to say there's no corruption, but it's largely overstated which is always going to be the nature of any body comprised of hundreds of millions of people - like our Country.
Ah, when that's how it works, that's a good thing ... apparently, there are "checks and balances" against this kind of problem.

When I read about certain policies, both in the US and over here in Germany, I sometimes get the impression politicians are too concerned about the interests of certain big businesses ... but it could be my prejudice that gives me that impression.
Well they have to pander, no doubt, but that's their job - to Represent those that put them into their Representative position.

A lot of the allegations of corruption are smoke and mirrors ways to maintain power. The better Angels of our Nature would previously have realized...yeah, they talk a lot of shit but since there's been years of investigations and no arrests - these things are probably mostly just bullshit. But not since the internet - if you can point to a news story that points to a blog that points to an Op-Ed, that's better than what these oversight committees are able to present under Oath, now.

Somehow.

Magically.

And then the Meuller report, the second to last sentence literally says that it does not Exonerate the President...and we've had 1.5 years of messaging now that says it was the "Russia Hoax" and that he's completely exonerated. Nevermind that as a result of THIS investigation, there actually WERE convictions in Courts of Law, and Prison sentences actually granted. It's all a cartoon, to these guys. According to what, the same report that says it's not true...he's exonerated? Weird. Because of the FISA warrant that had incompetence attached to it but WASNT EVEN THE JUSTIFICATION FOR THE INVESTIGATION in the first place.

You can pick up on these misleading lies/nuances if you watch the actual hearings, while folks are under oath and duress of Prosecution. The right will have 5 minutes to ask questions, "weren't there gross, negligent errors in the FISA warrant process?"

Witness says: Yes.

Right says :AHA, GOTYA!!! RUSSIA HOAX!!

But then the Left gets their time to question the same witness.... "but isn't the FISA warrant a separate issue, and was not even the justification for the investigation in the first place?"

Witness says: "Yes, thats correct."



Right wing messageboards sprint to their keyboards, parrot what Trump says, and call it a narrative.
Somewhat related, I'm very concerned about the meddling Russia engages in here in Europe.

There are a couple of anti-republican far-right parties in the European countries over here, populist parties which gather voters with anti-system sentiments. Some of them are interspersed with genuine neo-Nazis who'd abolish our freedom if given the chance, do away with freedom of speech, independent courts and free elections. Among them are, for example, the German AfD, the French Front National or the Italian Lega Nord.

Russia is massively supporting this populist far-right in Europe, financially as well as ideologically. Not long ago, Russian officials invited representants of these far-right European parties to Moscow, in order to foster a strategy how to defeat democracy in Europe. Needless to say, these populist parties in Europe are in favor of ending NATO membership and cooperation with the US, in favor of getting closer to Russia.

Also, Russia exerts a massive propaganda campaign online in EU countries: A significant minority in Germany watches "Russia Today" online, which offers a German language service, and Russia does the same in other EU countries. In this Russian propaganda, fake news are presented that are supposed to erode the trust of European peoples in their free republican systems -- to the benefit of Russia. And Russia has "troll factories" where thousands of people are employed, to influence social media with inciting fake news that are supposed to create division and fuel unrest.

Much like the European radical left used to be a "fifth column" for the communist Soviet Union, the right-wing populists of today have become useful idiots for a newly emerged imperialistic Russian autocracy.
I've seen some UK Citizens on this actual board fall for Conspiracy Theory bullshit that's likely a part of what you're talking about. What's sad, is, is they take genuinely innate sentiments about Liberty and use them to smuggle in Authoritarianism.

That's the essence of the Trump cult. He pays lip service to Liberty, de-regulation and America first - - - and the Cult has BECOME a cult due to that lip service...and then like the essence of a true Cult, its members fail to recognize that he's not anything but the opposite of what he espouses. Trump first, not America first. My regulation, not deregulation. Grow the Government, explode the debt if it favors my Economic picture for re-election. Throw shade at sensible best-practices your OWN pandemic team are promoting amidst a pandemic to pander to your sycophants. Say there's cheating before there's evidence, promote that anticipated pockets of human error equate to "widespread fraud and conspiracy" in a last-ditch effort to clutch your power.

This is upside-down world territory, here.
Yeah, I wondered about that, too ... I mean, some of Trump's policies were the opposite of classic Republican ideas ... for example, he massively increased American debts, or didn't he?

Also, Reagan for example, was all about free trade, reducing government and so on ... but Trump abolished free trade deals and turned to economic protectionism. My feeling is that most Republicans would have called this "socialism", if a Democrat had proposed the very same thing before 2016.

I don't necessarily agree with classic Republican ideas, but I understand where they were coming from ... reducing taxes to make government smaller, the idea that when you take a burden from businesses, it will give them a boom and even workers will benefit. But fair enough, I can perfectly accept such opinions as legitimate ideas for what's good for the country. But Trump was big government all the way ...

Also, I wonder how so many Christians could accept this man so easily, the same Christians who rightfully were appaled because of Bill Clinton's abuse scandal in the 90s. I mean seriously, a guy who openly admitted he cheated on his wife, who dumped her in favor of a porn star and talked about pussy grabbing on national tv?

I guess one can never underestimate the inconsistency of people's opinions. Maybe myself not excluded. :/
Yepp, the trade deficit was another one. He INCREASED the Trade Deficit, while paying lip service to making it more fair for Americans than the Chinese.

Another one - cancel culture. He paid lip service to being against cancel culture...and is notorious for firing any career professional who'd dare disagree with him, and also had a tantrum when <private Business twitter> fact checked him...and wanted to use his Authoritarian power to prevent them from doing so.
 

G.T.

Diamond Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
77,323
Reaction score
12,316
Points
2,180
He paid lip service to the fear that a partisan left-wing President, should they get the Senate, would stack the Court with partisan ideologues.

Trump/McConnell proceed by stacking the Courts with partisan ideologues.
 
OP
B

Bernhard

Active Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2020
Messages
118
Reaction score
104
Points
43
Location
Berlin, Germany

“Fascist politics transforms politics into a battlefield. And in the battlefield … you don’t care if your opponent is speaking truth or not. They’re the enemy. They want to kill you,” Stanley said in a subsequent interview with NPR. “If your leader says false things, it doesn’t matter. He’s trying to win the battle, win the war for you. So that’s the structure. And then you delegitimize the media by connecting them to your opponent, saying it’s one big conspiracy to undermine the nation, and then only you are the savior. Only you can save things. People have to have blind faith in you. And Trump has created that kind of connection between him and his supporters.”

The Trump cult will be studied for years to come.
I will not call Trump a fascist, since I don't think calling the other side names will convince anybody or bring us anywhere, but just fuel the eternal yin yang of mutual demonization ... but there is, generally speaking, an eery parallel to Germany in the 1920s and 30s:

The extreme polarization of politics. In Germany during the 20s, too, the extremists on both sides were extremely strong and living in seperate realities -- the communists on one side, the fascists on the other. The commies won more than 20% in elections and the far-right up to 43%, until the Nazis took over.

There was no sane middle ground anymore. The center, which used to defend the republic, was weak and disoriented. So it were the extremists that dominated the public, including bloody battles on the streets.

We know what happened then: One side finally took over, hollowed out the institutions of the republic, such as free elections, independent courts and checks and balances -- and put the other side into camps and murdered them.

It required America to liberate us from this nightmare. And I'm very happy that after 1949, at least in the western half of our country, the moderate parties governed with a consensus to shun the extremists on both sides. It was the moderate right that banned the Nazi German Reich Party in 1953, and it was the moderate left that battled far-left terrorism in the 1970s. Thanks to that consensus of the moderates, we had the best and most successful time in our history in the past decades.
 

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top