The US Election -- Questions from outside the US

Juicey Omelette

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I disagree... I would be considered by many as a “Leftist” but I love America. You’re reading the situation incorrectly
So we haven't been seeing the leftist domestic terrorist groups Antifa and BLM tearing up the country for the past year, while Democrats shower them with support?

Oh, and then didn't your candidates Biden/Harris bail them out of jail to do it all over again?...I was just imagining that? It didn't really happen? Oh wait..It totally did..


 

LA RAM FAN

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As I'm not American, I've followed reports about the US election from the outside. What's most remarkable, for me, is that America seems to be so incredibly divided at the moment. It was bad already when I talked with Americans online 15 years ago, but now, it seems to be even worse.

So, my question to you is: What do you think is necessary to heal this division? If you're Democrat, what do you expect from Republicans to unite America again? If you're Republican, what do you think is necessary from the side of Democrats to make it the United States of America again?
Unfortunately I think there are going to need to be regulations on how our political leaders speak and campaign. A reform to our entire campaign finance system is desperately needed anyways to reduce the reliance on shady money and fundraising.

The division comes from two main elements. Degradation of civil discourse and a juiced up partisan media that caters only to extremists. People love drama to media and politicians are giving them drama by promoting conspiracies, using hyperbole, shock factor statements, and setting up their political opponents as evil.
As long as politicians use these tactics and they get boosted by the media, divisions will grow.

Trump was a steroid shot to all of this. Getting him out was a good first step. Biden taking a moderate approach is the right tone to take from the top. I hope he keeps it up. I’m still very worried about Trump TV and all the puppets that have clinched onto the Trump attack tactics. They’ve found some success with it so I don’t know how it now gets discouraged.
Yes I wondered about that, too ... what can be done to make public discourse civil again -- talking about the issues, not blaming people and inventing conspiracies?

I liked how moderate Biden sounded in his first speech... that he said he wants to be President even of those who didn't vote for him. That's a welcome change after 4 years when the President just kept praising himself and blaming other people for all kinds of things.

But can Biden even do what he promises? After all, he has to appease the more radical people within his party, too ... so can he even afford to be a uniter, or will he have to resort to divisive policies sooner or later?
I understand you not being a big fan of trump and all,I’m not either,I only wanted I him in office because the alternative of hitlery a warmonger was five times worse. I hate how trump pats himself on the back as well but it’s the same thing again,the alternative of Biden is five times worse as well,he is a Warhawk,he went along with Obama illegally starting wars going along with that mass murderer and has deep ties to communist China,it’s that who you REALLY want In? I would think you would say no. Trump for all his faults,was the first president sense carter to not start any new wars,thst is why the elite want him out of office so badly and cooked up,the most massive mail fraud in ever in mankind history,the evidence has Been shown that over and over again and every single trump hater has failed to debunk it. :lmao:
I think it is very easy to be against wars from a state of ignorance. Once you’re aware of all the threats and intel and ultimately responsible for the safety and security of a nation, things may change. Trump pulling troops from Afghanistan right now is all political gamesmanship to put Biden in a pickle
I for one am very glad that America waged war against my country in 1941 and liberated us from fascism.

Just saying.
what the history books dont teach us is the stalin was the even greater enemy.Patton realised that and begged his superiours to advance on Russia.He saw how evil their government was becoming and his superiours ignored him. He spoke out against that and he died a very stranger mysterious death afterwards.

they also dont talk about Eisenhowers murderous actions,how he was pals with stalin same as FDR. Eisenhowrs illegal bombing of dresden and his monsterous treatment of german soldiers,not proving them shelter in freezing conditions and starving the prisoners illegally vioting the red cross humanitarian act. and it was not just men it was innocent women and children, none of this ever gets pritned in the history books because it exposes that FDR,esiernhower and churchhill were as much evil monsters as he was.

FDR,,IKE and Churchill were just as much evil as him. thats not widely known so i dont expect you to believe me but here is a little bit on what i was talking about on Patton.he was a true patriot.
Well, I'm sure even the American leaders of that time, or military people, were not saints ... but this is not a matter of black and white. It's about shades of grey, and in some cases, the shade of a certain grey is so much lighter than the other, that it's a no brainer.

Did the allies commit war crimes against Germans during WW2? Perhaps there were such instances. Maybe they can never be avoided entirely when you go to war. Perhaps "clean war" is an illusion. Which is why leaders should not wage war too easily.

That said, it's obvious that whatever the Allies did, it was the lesser evil to what the Nazis did and especially compared to what the Nazis would have done, if they had won: It's pretty safe to say the Nazis would have murdered tens of millions of people they considered "inferior races", if they had won the war, and pushed hundreds of millions into slavery.

Does that justify instances of war crimes that may have occured on the side of the Allies? Perhaps not ... but if that was the price of liberating the world from the pure evil that was Nazism, then it was worth it, I'd say.
It does not matter what the actions were of the germans,Ike was a murderer of innocent women and children starving them to death and his illegal bombing of dresdan plus his illegal violation of the red cross agreement. there used to be stuff all over youtube about eisenhowers atrocities years ago but youtube has become like the mainstream media,they censor anything thats not polliticaly correct so it cant be found now.

here is an alternative source though that debunks the myth of eisnerhow and shows the true monster he was. He stood by gleefully having a jolly old good time with mass murderer joseph staling laughing as he gave orders to his men to rape russia women.

some in the know say he admired him so much he called him uncle joe. but here it is where he stood by and gleefully saw it.


one of the soldiers years ago met up with a german survivor of that pow camp and apologized to him for the governments horrible treatment to his people. as i said,youtube censors this so it cant be fond anymore but there USED to be video out there of germans marching several years ago in germany to honor the people that eisenhower murderered which again included women and children,INEXCUSABLE to violate the red corss agreement to aid pows

eisenhower,churchill and fdr are all alongside staling and hitler burning in hell right along side them.
Yeah, I believe you, it is well possible that some of that happened ... and maybe it's not good style to idolize these people as heroes.

But still, considering what my countrymen did during WW2, I can well understand that many of their victims were no longer in a mood to respect the Geneva Convention, POW rules and so on either. They wanted revenge. Does that mean they were just as evil as the Nazis? Well, if you believe so, you can say God will decide that in the next world.

But the bottom line is, my country was liberated, and after the war was over, we had the huge luck -- and really, considering how we had treated our victims, it IS a huge luck -- to restart in freedom and democracy. And get rich again.
As I'm not American, I've followed reports about the US election from the outside. What's most remarkable, for me, is that America seems to be so incredibly divided at the moment. It was bad already when I talked with Americans online 15 years ago, but now, it seems to be even worse.

So, my question to you is: What do you think is necessary to heal this division? If you're Democrat, what do you expect from Republicans to unite America again? If you're Republican, what do you think is necessary from the side of Democrats to make it the United States of America again?
Unfortunately I think there are going to need to be regulations on how our political leaders speak and campaign. A reform to our entire campaign finance system is desperately needed anyways to reduce the reliance on shady money and fundraising.

The division comes from two main elements. Degradation of civil discourse and a juiced up partisan media that caters only to extremists. People love drama to media and politicians are giving them drama by promoting conspiracies, using hyperbole, shock factor statements, and setting up their political opponents as evil.
As long as politicians use these tactics and they get boosted by the media, divisions will grow.

Trump was a steroid shot to all of this. Getting him out was a good first step. Biden taking a moderate approach is the right tone to take from the top. I hope he keeps it up. I’m still very worried about Trump TV and all the puppets that have clinched onto the Trump attack tactics. They’ve found some success with it so I don’t know how it now gets discouraged.
Yes I wondered about that, too ... what can be done to make public discourse civil again -- talking about the issues, not blaming people and inventing conspiracies?

I liked how moderate Biden sounded in his first speech... that he said he wants to be President even of those who didn't vote for him. That's a welcome change after 4 years when the President just kept praising himself and blaming other people for all kinds of things.

But can Biden even do what he promises? After all, he has to appease the more radical people within his party, too ... so can he even afford to be a uniter, or will he have to resort to divisive policies sooner or later?
I understand you not being a big fan of trump and all,I’m not either,I only wanted I him in office because the alternative of hitlery a warmonger was five times worse. I hate how trump pats himself on the back as well but it’s the same thing again,the alternative of Biden is five times worse as well,he is a Warhawk,he went along with Obama illegally starting wars going along with that mass murderer and has deep ties to communist China,it’s that who you REALLY want In? I would think you would say no. Trump for all his faults,was the first president sense carter to not start any new wars,thst is why the elite want him out of office so badly and cooked up,the most massive mail fraud in ever in mankind history,the evidence has Been shown that over and over again and every single trump hater has failed to debunk it. :lmao:
I think it is very easy to be against wars from a state of ignorance. Once you’re aware of all the threats and intel and ultimately responsible for the safety and security of a nation, things may change. Trump pulling troops from Afghanistan right now is all political gamesmanship to put Biden in a pickle
I for one am very glad that America waged war against my country in 1941 and liberated us from fascism.

Just saying.
what the history books dont teach us is the stalin was the even greater enemy.Patton realised that and begged his superiours to advance on Russia.He saw how evil their government was becoming and his superiours ignored him. He spoke out against that and he died a very stranger mysterious death afterwards.

they also dont talk about Eisenhowers murderous actions,how he was pals with stalin same as FDR. Eisenhowrs illegal bombing of dresden and his monsterous treatment of german soldiers,not proving them shelter in freezing conditions and starving the prisoners illegally vioting the red cross humanitarian act. and it was not just men it was innocent women and children, none of this ever gets pritned in the history books because it exposes that FDR,esiernhower and churchhill were as much evil monsters as he was.

FDR,,IKE and Churchill were just as much evil as him. thats not widely known so i dont expect you to believe me but here is a little bit on what i was talking about on Patton.he was a true patriot.
Well, I'm sure even the American leaders of that time, or military people, were not saints ... but this is not a matter of black and white. It's about shades of grey, and in some cases, the shade of a certain grey is so much lighter than the other, that it's a no brainer.

Did the allies commit war crimes against Germans during WW2? Perhaps there were such instances. Maybe they can never be avoided entirely when you go to war. Perhaps "clean war" is an illusion. Which is why leaders should not wage war too easily.

That said, it's obvious that whatever the Allies did, it was the lesser evil to what the Nazis did and especially compared to what the Nazis would have done, if they had won: It's pretty safe to say the Nazis would have murdered tens of millions of people they considered "inferior races", if they had won the war, and pushed hundreds of millions into slavery.

Does that justify instances of war crimes that may have occured on the side of the Allies? Perhaps not ... but if that was the price of liberating the world from the pure evil that was Nazism, then it was worth it, I'd say.
It does not matter what the actions were of the germans,Ike was a murderer of innocent women and children starving them to death and his illegal bombing of dresdan plus his illegal violation of the red cross agreement. there used to be stuff all over youtube about eisenhowers atrocities years ago but youtube has become like the mainstream media,they censor anything thats not polliticaly correct so it cant be found now.

here is an alternative source though that debunks the myth of eisnerhow and shows the true monster he was. He stood by gleefully having a jolly old good time with mass murderer joseph staling laughing as he gave orders to his men to rape russia women.

some in the know say he admired him so much he called him uncle joe. but here it is where he stood by and gleefully saw it.


one of the soldiers years ago met up with a german survivor of that pow camp and apologized to him for the governments horrible treatment to his people. as i said,youtube censors this so it cant be fond anymore but there USED to be video out there of germans marching several years ago in germany to honor the people that eisenhower murderered which again included women and children,INEXCUSABLE to violate the red corss agreement to aid pows

eisenhower,churchill and fdr are all alongside staling and hitler burning in hell right along side them.
Yeah, I believe you, it is well possible that some of that happened ... and maybe it's not good style to idolize these people as heroes.

But still, considering what my countrymen did during WW2, I can well understand that many of their victims were no longer in a mood to respect the Geneva Convention, POW rules and so on either. They wanted revenge. Does that mean they were just as evil as the Nazis? Well, if you believe so, you can say God will decide that in the next world.

But the bottom line is, my country was liberated, and after the war was over, we had the huge luck -- and really, considering how we had treated our victims, it IS a huge luck -- to restart in freedom and democracy. And get rich again.
thats a reasonable post.i just wish i was having this conversation with you years ago so i could show you that video that facist youtube deleted sense it is not politically correct of all the german citizens that marched in the streets and had signs telling the truth what a mass murderer eisenhower was. you cant find any of that stuff on youtube anymore though,they have deleted any truth videos that expose government corruption pretty much this day.them and facebook delete any of the accounts of anybody that is a trump supporter,thats how much the establishment wants him out of office as they did with jfk.
Be careful about what you see online, especially on YouTube: There are many whackos out there. Including Neo-Nazis who engage in revisionist history and so on.

Or even real Nazis. The propaganda of the German government under Nazi rule was extreme, even still today people believe some of the lies the Nazi government fed their people with back then.

For example: Did you know that in Dresden, it were most likely not 200.000 people who were killed, but more like 20.000, as historians estimate today? So how comes this example keeps being named as an example for Allied war crimes? Yep -- because of the Nazi propaganda. For decades, even historians just took the high numbers out of the Nazi propaganda. It still works today, more than 70 years later.

That said, I don't really want to engage in such a debate ... I'm not qualified, as I'm not a historian. Let the historians bicker about numbers.

My point is: Question your sources!
Especially on YouTube. Anybody can write and post their videos there ... ideologues with an agenda, hacks, even mentally insane people.
uh again youtube is deleting everything now that goes against governme
Well..when you have domestic terrorist groups with the expressed purpose of destroying our country, and system of government openly being supported by leftist voters, politicians, and media...

I would say that is the first thing that needs to stop.

I don't know what it looks like to a foreigner, but it's really pretty simple for a lot of us patriotic Americans..

You got the right side that loves this country, and will die to the last defending it..then you got left :uhoh3: :cuckoo:
I disagree... I would be considered by many as a “Leftist” but I love America. You’re reading the situation incorrectly
yeah sure you love America,thats why you want a facist warmonger as president,you love these mass murdering globalist presidents like bush and obama who hate americans.:auiqs.jpg:
 

LA RAM FAN

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I disagree... I would be considered by many as a “Leftist” but I love America. You’re reading the situation incorrectly
So we haven't been seeing the leftist domestic terrorist groups Antifa and BLM tearing up the country for the past year, while Democrats shower them with support?

Oh, and then didn't your candidates Biden/Harris bail them out of jail to do it all over again?...I was just imagining that? It didn't really happen? Oh wait..It totally did..


slade gets his ass handed to him on a platter after getting OWNED,:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::auiqs.jpg::auiqs.jpg::auiqs.jpg::auiqs.jpg:
 

Juicey Omelette

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Well, the funny thing is, I can't even make out whether you are talking about the left or about the right, because both sides tell the same things about the other.
I said, "the domestic terrorist groups on the left"..it was pretty obvious who I was referring to.

You really haven't been paying attention.. if you are trying to equate the level of violence, and groups on the right to the absolute destruction being caused by the organized, funded and supported efforts of the left in this country.

The leftist media, and politicians in the USA openly support (or question the existence of..Jerry Nadler POS) the domestic terrorist groups rioting to destroy America. There isn't anything similar happening from the right in this country.


The violence from the right (if there is any to speak of) is mostly self defense, and in defense of personal property, and country. We actually don't have a problem with right wing extremist groups in this country. That's just another leftist fake news media lie.
 
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Bernhard

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I disagree... I would be considered by many as a “Leftist” but I love America. You’re reading the situation incorrectly
So we haven't been seeing the leftist domestic terrorist groups Antifa and BLM tearing up the country for the past year, while Democrats shower them with support?

Oh, and then didn't your candidates Biden/Harris bail them out of jail to do it all over again?...I was just imagining that? It didn't really happen? Oh wait..It totally did..


I've also seen videos of KKK members praising Donald Trump and some far-right groups showing the Hitler salute after praising Trump ... and Trump instigating the violent far-right group "Proud Boys" to "stand ready" on national tv.

Obviously, it's at very least not just one side which has to consider their stance on radical fringe groups.

So I ask again: How about agreeing that moderates on both sides should agree on shunning fringe groups who resort to violence or rioting for political ends?
 
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Bernhard

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Well, the funny thing is, I can't even make out whether you are talking about the left or about the right, because both sides tell the same things about the other.
I said, "the domestic terrorist groups on the left", and named them. It was obvious who I was referring to.

You really haven't been paying attention.. if you are trying to equate the level of violence, and groups on the right to the absolute destruction being caused by the organized, funded and supported efforts of the left in this country.

The leftist media, and politicians in the USA openly support (or question the existence of..Jerry Nadler POS) the domestic terrorist groups rioting to destroy America. There isn't anything similar happening from the right in this country.


The violence from the right (if there is any to speak of) is mostly self defense, and in defense of personal property, and country. We actually don't have a problem with right wing extremist groups in this country. That's just another leftist fake news media lie.
Well, the left says the very same thing about you: That the right in America lives in a parallel reality filled with lies and fake news from far-right media sources, which has nothing to do with the reality the rest of the world lives in.

Now I can't fact-check all things I hear or read, and neither can you. We're just stuck here where both sides accuse the other of domestic terrorism and each side has tons of stories online to back that up.

And now?
 

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Well, the funny thing is, I can't even make out whether you are talking about the left or about the right, because both sides tell the same things about the other.
I said, "the domestic terrorist groups on the left", and named them. It was obvious who I was referring to.

You really haven't been paying attention.. if you are trying to equate the level of violence, and groups on the right to the absolute destruction being caused by the organized, funded and supported efforts of the left in this country.

The leftist media, and politicians in the USA openly support (or question the existence of..Jerry Nadler POS) the domestic terrorist groups rioting to destroy America. There isn't anything similar happening from the right in this country.


The violence from the right (if there is any to speak of) is mostly self defense, and in defense of personal property, and country. We actually don't have a problem with right wing extremist groups in this country. That's just another leftist fake news media lie.
You've noticed that as well that he doesnt seem to pay attention to your posts you make as well huh?:biggrin: must be because they dont support his warped opinions that Biden is a mass murderer.LOL


I thought i made it perfectly clear in a post to him that if he wants biden in,then you can count on him starting wars around the world and trampling on the civil libertys and freedoms americans have the fact that he went along with everything facist pig commie mass murderer Obama did and same as him,is a globalist. :uhoh3: does this guy even understand what a globalist is? I am seriously wondering that at this point. I thought i made that perfectly clear to him but somehow he missed that and said he wanted biden in office.:uhoh3:


Well he is not from here so i will go easy on him by not insulting him and forgive him for not understanding that the reason the elite want biden is because he is a globalist that will be their willing puppet for them and give them the wars they want same as bush and obama did and clinton before them which is the reason the elite are doing everything they can to keep him from being reelected by having the most massive voting fraud ever take place in the history of mankind.


He has obviously only heard what the corporate controlled media have told him about trump so he gets a pass on not understanding this.slade though is a much different story,his ignorance and ignorance of the facts is inexcusable,thats why if his posts are not just a sentence or two,i ignore his babble.

lets see,if the choices of a president are someone who is annoying by always patting himself on the back all the time but is the first president in five previous corrupt administrations before him to not star a war for the elite and is the first president to come out and tell the truth that wars are always started so the defense contracters can profit,if my choice is him over someone who is a globalist,has ties to communist china,has along career history of corruption and went along with everything mass murderer obama did who expanded everything warmonger and traiter Bush did,then its a no brainer to vote for trump,all the logical objective people that are not biased all understand that around the world when they hear those facts.:uhoh3::biggrin:
 
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Juicey Omelette

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Well, the funny thing is, I can't even make out whether you are talking about the left or about the right, because both sides tell the same things about the other.
I said, "the domestic terrorist groups on the left", and named them. It was obvious who I was referring to.

You really haven't been paying attention.. if you are trying to equate the level of violence, and groups on the right to the absolute destruction being caused by the organized, funded and supported efforts of the left in this country.

The leftist media, and politicians in the USA openly support (or question the existence of..Jerry Nadler POS) the domestic terrorist groups rioting to destroy America. There isn't anything similar happening from the right in this country.


The violence from the right (if there is any to speak of) is mostly self defense, and in defense of personal property, and country. We actually don't have a problem with right wing extremist groups in this country. That's just another leftist fake news media lie.
Well, the left says the very same thing about you: That the right in America lives in a parallel reality filled with lies and fake news from far-right media sources, which has nothing to do with the reality the rest of the world lives in.

Now I can't fact-check all things I hear or read, and neither can you. We're just stuck here where both sides accuse the other of domestic terrorism and each side has tons of stories online to back that up.

And now?
Name me one place where a riot was started by a domestic terrorist group on the right? Or name me a domestic terrorist organization on the right that is in the streets openly waging an ideological war on the American government, and it's people..

Again.. you have one side (the Left) that is committing the vast majority of the violence, while rioting with the expressed goal of tearing down the political spectrum and structure of our government.

Nothing even remotely similar is happening on the right.

If you don't see the difference.. then like I said.. start paying better attention.

I am all for a de escalation in the radical extremism in this country. Just seems like you don't understand that the left are the one's guilty of perpetuating it to the degree of severity we now face.
 

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by the way bernhard,you mentioned that youtube is a source to not believe in all the time, I seldom believe ANYTHING they say anymore because as i stated earlier,they USED to be more objective and open to free speech and different viewpoints so i used to use them a lot as a source for years up until the last couple or so.

Now they are a facist dictatership and no longer believe in free speech or opposing viewpoints ,NOW they delete anything that people post that exposes government corruption so they indeed are now a terrible source to use. that is WHY as i said earlier,you can no longer find anything on there of Eisenhowers war criminal acts,how he was a mass murderer of women and children as was FDR. because it is not politiclly correct,youtube is just a mouthpiece for the government, they are deleting the accounts of peole that are trump supporters so of course you are right,not to believe what youtube says,that we can agree on.:biggrin:

a much better source for videos now that many are turning to is bitchute, that is an alternative media source so the government of course is trying to shut them down same as youtube has shit down critisem of the government pretty much. its just a matter of time before they deplatform that place.

as i said to you before,its all documented on eisenhowers war criminal actions murdering women and children. it used to be on youtube but its probably been taken down now of a american soldier that met up with a POW german soldier that somehow survived that camp and he apologized to him for eisenhowers terrible treatment of them starving him to death and not giving them shelter,in the video you can see the two men hugging each other. it was a touching moment to see.
 
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LA RAM FAN

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Well, the funny thing is, I can't even make out whether you are talking about the left or about the right, because both sides tell the same things about the other.
I said, "the domestic terrorist groups on the left", and named them. It was obvious who I was referring to.

You really haven't been paying attention.. if you are trying to equate the level of violence, and groups on the right to the absolute destruction being caused by the organized, funded and supported efforts of the left in this country.

The leftist media, and politicians in the USA openly support (or question the existence of..Jerry Nadler POS) the domestic terrorist groups rioting to destroy America. There isn't anything similar happening from the right in this country.


The violence from the right (if there is any to speak of) is mostly self defense, and in defense of personal property, and country. We actually don't have a problem with right wing extremist groups in this country. That's just another leftist fake news media lie.
Well, the left says the very same thing about you: That the right in America lives in a parallel reality filled with lies and fake news from far-right media sources, which has nothing to do with the reality the rest of the world lives in.

Now I can't fact-check all things I hear or read, and neither can you. We're just stuck here where both sides accuse the other of domestic terrorism and each side has tons of stories online to back that up.

And now?
Name me one place where a riot was started by a domestic terrorist group on the right? Or name me a domestic terrorist organization on the right that is in the streets openly waging an ideological war on the American government, and it's people..

Again.. you have one side (the Left) that is committing the vast majority of the violence, while rioting with the expressed goal of tearing down the political spectrum and structure of our government.

Nothing even remotely similar is happening on the right.

If you don't see the difference.. then like I said.. start paying better attention.

I am all for a de escalation in the radical extremism in this country. Just seems like you don't understand that the left are the one's guilty of perpetuating it to the degree of severity we now face.
here is something that hopefully should help wake him up that it is always the left starting all these riots all the time. there were threads that were posted here of all the biden supporters cowardly attacking women and children and the elderly who were trump supporters at night in washington using the blanket of the night as cover to do so .none of this got reported by the media.they did not show any of the videos of it..


there is this one member who was a long time democrat supporter going back to her days of jfk who she voted for obama. I dont fault her i wanted him in as well.i thought he would be different than bush. but same as me,she did not ignore facts that obama lied about everything he said he would do tht he would get us out of the war but instead expanded it,so she did not vote for him a second time and neither did i. sense then she has left the democrat party and will never vote for it again,her name is gracie,there are THOUSANDS in america same as gracie leaving the democrat party,here is the proof.

okay i had one more post to make.




 
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Bernhard

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Well, the funny thing is, I can't even make out whether you are talking about the left or about the right, because both sides tell the same things about the other.
I said, "the domestic terrorist groups on the left", and named them. It was obvious who I was referring to.

You really haven't been paying attention.. if you are trying to equate the level of violence, and groups on the right to the absolute destruction being caused by the organized, funded and supported efforts of the left in this country.

The leftist media, and politicians in the USA openly support (or question the existence of..Jerry Nadler POS) the domestic terrorist groups rioting to destroy America. There isn't anything similar happening from the right in this country.


The violence from the right (if there is any to speak of) is mostly self defense, and in defense of personal property, and country. We actually don't have a problem with right wing extremist groups in this country. That's just another leftist fake news media lie.
Well, the left says the very same thing about you: That the right in America lives in a parallel reality filled with lies and fake news from far-right media sources, which has nothing to do with the reality the rest of the world lives in.

Now I can't fact-check all things I hear or read, and neither can you. We're just stuck here where both sides accuse the other of domestic terrorism and each side has tons of stories online to back that up.

And now?
Name me one place where a riot was started by a domestic terrorist group on the right? Or name me a domestic terrorist organization on the right that is in the streets openly waging an ideological war on the American government, and it's people..

Again.. you have one side (the Left) that is committing the vast majority of the violence, while rioting with the expressed goal of tearing down the political spectrum and structure of our government.

Nothing even remotely similar is happening on the right.

If you don't see the difference.. then like I said.. start paying better attention.

I am all for a de escalation in the radical extremism in this country. Just seems like you don't understand that the left are the one's guilty of perpetuating it to the degree of severity we now face.
Well, I can just say that from the sources I read and watch, I got the impression it's really a problem of both sides. Or rather, that extremists on either side resort to violence and the parties on their side fail to clearly condemn that, or are accused by the other side of failing to condemn that.

I remember there was that case when right-wingers killed a student on some anti-racism rally, I believe. And as I said, I saw on tv how Trump encouraged the "Proud Boys" during the debate -- obviously hinting at them they are supposed to become violent, should he lose the election. I certainly did not make this up, it's what Trump did. Everybody could see that. There were many cases reported when Trump failed to condemn right-wing violence, even neo-Nazis... all he said was that there are "bad people on both sides".

But hey, I don't mean to battle with you about who is right. Obviously, you have your sources and I have mine, and digging up stories online won't bring us any further, as neither of us can check which of them are fake, exaggerated half-truths or true. The right-wing media will exaggerate stories about left-wing violence and refuse to even report about right-wing violence, and the left-wing media will exaggerate stories about right-wing violence and refuse to report instances of left violence, so people have totally opposite views of what's going on.

I'm more interested in your ideas about what we can do to get out of this debate deadlock. As I said above, my proposal is that we could agree that moderates on either side should agree on condemning violence for political goals. What do you think about that?

And if you like to talk about certain policies, fair deal. Better focusing on issues rather than playing a blame game.
 

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I disagree... I would be considered by many as a “Leftist” but I love America. You’re reading the situation incorrectly
So we haven't been seeing the leftist domestic terrorist groups Antifa and BLM tearing up the country for the past year, while Democrats shower them with support?

Oh, and then didn't your candidates Biden/Harris bail them out of jail to do it all over again?...I was just imagining that? It didn't really happen? Oh wait..It totally did..


The political party never supported the violence, they supported the message and fight for equality and better treatment of minorities. I know the right wing likes to conflate to two but you’re not fooling anybody
 

Slade3200

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As I'm not American, I've followed reports about the US election from the outside. What's most remarkable, for me, is that America seems to be so incredibly divided at the moment. It was bad already when I talked with Americans online 15 years ago, but now, it seems to be even worse.

So, my question to you is: What do you think is necessary to heal this division? If you're Democrat, what do you expect from Republicans to unite America again? If you're Republican, what do you think is necessary from the side of Democrats to make it the United States of America again?
Unfortunately I think there are going to need to be regulations on how our political leaders speak and campaign. A reform to our entire campaign finance system is desperately needed anyways to reduce the reliance on shady money and fundraising.

The division comes from two main elements. Degradation of civil discourse and a juiced up partisan media that caters only to extremists. People love drama to media and politicians are giving them drama by promoting conspiracies, using hyperbole, shock factor statements, and setting up their political opponents as evil.
As long as politicians use these tactics and they get boosted by the media, divisions will grow.

Trump was a steroid shot to all of this. Getting him out was a good first step. Biden taking a moderate approach is the right tone to take from the top. I hope he keeps it up. I’m still very worried about Trump TV and all the puppets that have clinched onto the Trump attack tactics. They’ve found some success with it so I don’t know how it now gets discouraged.
Yes I wondered about that, too ... what can be done to make public discourse civil again -- talking about the issues, not blaming people and inventing conspiracies?

I liked how moderate Biden sounded in his first speech... that he said he wants to be President even of those who didn't vote for him. That's a welcome change after 4 years when the President just kept praising himself and blaming other people for all kinds of things.

But can Biden even do what he promises? After all, he has to appease the more radical people within his party, too ... so can he even afford to be a uniter, or will he have to resort to divisive policies sooner or later?
I understand you not being a big fan of trump and all,I’m not either,I only wanted I him in office because the alternative of hitlery a warmonger was five times worse. I hate how trump pats himself on the back as well but it’s the same thing again,the alternative of Biden is five times worse as well,he is a Warhawk,he went along with Obama illegally starting wars going along with that mass murderer and has deep ties to communist China,it’s that who you REALLY want In? I would think you would say no. Trump for all his faults,was the first president sense carter to not start any new wars,thst is why the elite want him out of office so badly and cooked up,the most massive mail fraud in ever in mankind history,the evidence has Been shown that over and over again and every single trump hater has failed to debunk it. :lmao:
I think it is very easy to be against wars from a state of ignorance. Once you’re aware of all the threats and intel and ultimately responsible for the safety and security of a nation, things may change. Trump pulling troops from Afghanistan right now is all political gamesmanship to put Biden in a pickle
I for one am very glad that America waged war against my country in 1941 and liberated us from fascism.

Just saying.
what the history books dont teach us is the stalin was the even greater enemy.Patton realised that and begged his superiours to advance on Russia.He saw how evil their government was becoming and his superiours ignored him. He spoke out against that and he died a very stranger mysterious death afterwards.

they also dont talk about Eisenhowers murderous actions,how he was pals with stalin same as FDR. Eisenhowrs illegal bombing of dresden and his monsterous treatment of german soldiers,not proving them shelter in freezing conditions and starving the prisoners illegally vioting the red cross humanitarian act. and it was not just men it was innocent women and children, none of this ever gets pritned in the history books because it exposes that FDR,esiernhower and churchhill were as much evil monsters as he was.

FDR,,IKE and Churchill were just as much evil as him. thats not widely known so i dont expect you to believe me but here is a little bit on what i was talking about on Patton.he was a true patriot.
Well, I'm sure even the American leaders of that time, or military people, were not saints ... but this is not a matter of black and white. It's about shades of grey, and in some cases, the shade of a certain grey is so much lighter than the other, that it's a no brainer.

Did the allies commit war crimes against Germans during WW2? Perhaps there were such instances. Maybe they can never be avoided entirely when you go to war. Perhaps "clean war" is an illusion. Which is why leaders should not wage war too easily.

That said, it's obvious that whatever the Allies did, it was the lesser evil to what the Nazis did and especially compared to what the Nazis would have done, if they had won: It's pretty safe to say the Nazis would have murdered tens of millions of people they considered "inferior races", if they had won the war, and pushed hundreds of millions into slavery.

Does that justify instances of war crimes that may have occured on the side of the Allies? Perhaps not ... but if that was the price of liberating the world from the pure evil that was Nazism, then it was worth it, I'd say.
It does not matter what the actions were of the germans,Ike was a murderer of innocent women and children starving them to death and his illegal bombing of dresdan plus his illegal violation of the red cross agreement. there used to be stuff all over youtube about eisenhowers atrocities years ago but youtube has become like the mainstream media,they censor anything thats not polliticaly correct so it cant be found now.

here is an alternative source though that debunks the myth of eisnerhow and shows the true monster he was. He stood by gleefully having a jolly old good time with mass murderer joseph staling laughing as he gave orders to his men to rape russia women.

some in the know say he admired him so much he called him uncle joe. but here it is where he stood by and gleefully saw it.


one of the soldiers years ago met up with a german survivor of that pow camp and apologized to him for the governments horrible treatment to his people. as i said,youtube censors this so it cant be fond anymore but there USED to be video out there of germans marching several years ago in germany to honor the people that eisenhower murderered which again included women and children,INEXCUSABLE to violate the red corss agreement to aid pows

eisenhower,churchill and fdr are all alongside staling and hitler burning in hell right along side them.
Yeah, I believe you, it is well possible that some of that happened ... and maybe it's not good style to idolize these people as heroes.

But still, considering what my countrymen did during WW2, I can well understand that many of their victims were no longer in a mood to respect the Geneva Convention, POW rules and so on either. They wanted revenge. Does that mean they were just as evil as the Nazis? Well, if you believe so, you can say God will decide that in the next world.

But the bottom line is, my country was liberated, and after the war was over, we had the huge luck -- and really, considering how we had treated our victims, it IS a huge luck -- to restart in freedom and democracy. And get rich again.
As I'm not American, I've followed reports about the US election from the outside. What's most remarkable, for me, is that America seems to be so incredibly divided at the moment. It was bad already when I talked with Americans online 15 years ago, but now, it seems to be even worse.

So, my question to you is: What do you think is necessary to heal this division? If you're Democrat, what do you expect from Republicans to unite America again? If you're Republican, what do you think is necessary from the side of Democrats to make it the United States of America again?
Unfortunately I think there are going to need to be regulations on how our political leaders speak and campaign. A reform to our entire campaign finance system is desperately needed anyways to reduce the reliance on shady money and fundraising.

The division comes from two main elements. Degradation of civil discourse and a juiced up partisan media that caters only to extremists. People love drama to media and politicians are giving them drama by promoting conspiracies, using hyperbole, shock factor statements, and setting up their political opponents as evil.
As long as politicians use these tactics and they get boosted by the media, divisions will grow.

Trump was a steroid shot to all of this. Getting him out was a good first step. Biden taking a moderate approach is the right tone to take from the top. I hope he keeps it up. I’m still very worried about Trump TV and all the puppets that have clinched onto the Trump attack tactics. They’ve found some success with it so I don’t know how it now gets discouraged.
Yes I wondered about that, too ... what can be done to make public discourse civil again -- talking about the issues, not blaming people and inventing conspiracies?

I liked how moderate Biden sounded in his first speech... that he said he wants to be President even of those who didn't vote for him. That's a welcome change after 4 years when the President just kept praising himself and blaming other people for all kinds of things.

But can Biden even do what he promises? After all, he has to appease the more radical people within his party, too ... so can he even afford to be a uniter, or will he have to resort to divisive policies sooner or later?
I understand you not being a big fan of trump and all,I’m not either,I only wanted I him in office because the alternative of hitlery a warmonger was five times worse. I hate how trump pats himself on the back as well but it’s the same thing again,the alternative of Biden is five times worse as well,he is a Warhawk,he went along with Obama illegally starting wars going along with that mass murderer and has deep ties to communist China,it’s that who you REALLY want In? I would think you would say no. Trump for all his faults,was the first president sense carter to not start any new wars,thst is why the elite want him out of office so badly and cooked up,the most massive mail fraud in ever in mankind history,the evidence has Been shown that over and over again and every single trump hater has failed to debunk it. :lmao:
I think it is very easy to be against wars from a state of ignorance. Once you’re aware of all the threats and intel and ultimately responsible for the safety and security of a nation, things may change. Trump pulling troops from Afghanistan right now is all political gamesmanship to put Biden in a pickle
I for one am very glad that America waged war against my country in 1941 and liberated us from fascism.

Just saying.
what the history books dont teach us is the stalin was the even greater enemy.Patton realised that and begged his superiours to advance on Russia.He saw how evil their government was becoming and his superiours ignored him. He spoke out against that and he died a very stranger mysterious death afterwards.

they also dont talk about Eisenhowers murderous actions,how he was pals with stalin same as FDR. Eisenhowrs illegal bombing of dresden and his monsterous treatment of german soldiers,not proving them shelter in freezing conditions and starving the prisoners illegally vioting the red cross humanitarian act. and it was not just men it was innocent women and children, none of this ever gets pritned in the history books because it exposes that FDR,esiernhower and churchhill were as much evil monsters as he was.

FDR,,IKE and Churchill were just as much evil as him. thats not widely known so i dont expect you to believe me but here is a little bit on what i was talking about on Patton.he was a true patriot.
Well, I'm sure even the American leaders of that time, or military people, were not saints ... but this is not a matter of black and white. It's about shades of grey, and in some cases, the shade of a certain grey is so much lighter than the other, that it's a no brainer.

Did the allies commit war crimes against Germans during WW2? Perhaps there were such instances. Maybe they can never be avoided entirely when you go to war. Perhaps "clean war" is an illusion. Which is why leaders should not wage war too easily.

That said, it's obvious that whatever the Allies did, it was the lesser evil to what the Nazis did and especially compared to what the Nazis would have done, if they had won: It's pretty safe to say the Nazis would have murdered tens of millions of people they considered "inferior races", if they had won the war, and pushed hundreds of millions into slavery.

Does that justify instances of war crimes that may have occured on the side of the Allies? Perhaps not ... but if that was the price of liberating the world from the pure evil that was Nazism, then it was worth it, I'd say.
It does not matter what the actions were of the germans,Ike was a murderer of innocent women and children starving them to death and his illegal bombing of dresdan plus his illegal violation of the red cross agreement. there used to be stuff all over youtube about eisenhowers atrocities years ago but youtube has become like the mainstream media,they censor anything thats not polliticaly correct so it cant be found now.

here is an alternative source though that debunks the myth of eisnerhow and shows the true monster he was. He stood by gleefully having a jolly old good time with mass murderer joseph staling laughing as he gave orders to his men to rape russia women.

some in the know say he admired him so much he called him uncle joe. but here it is where he stood by and gleefully saw it.


one of the soldiers years ago met up with a german survivor of that pow camp and apologized to him for the governments horrible treatment to his people. as i said,youtube censors this so it cant be fond anymore but there USED to be video out there of germans marching several years ago in germany to honor the people that eisenhower murderered which again included women and children,INEXCUSABLE to violate the red corss agreement to aid pows

eisenhower,churchill and fdr are all alongside staling and hitler burning in hell right along side them.
Yeah, I believe you, it is well possible that some of that happened ... and maybe it's not good style to idolize these people as heroes.

But still, considering what my countrymen did during WW2, I can well understand that many of their victims were no longer in a mood to respect the Geneva Convention, POW rules and so on either. They wanted revenge. Does that mean they were just as evil as the Nazis? Well, if you believe so, you can say God will decide that in the next world.

But the bottom line is, my country was liberated, and after the war was over, we had the huge luck -- and really, considering how we had treated our victims, it IS a huge luck -- to restart in freedom and democracy. And get rich again.
thats a reasonable post.i just wish i was having this conversation with you years ago so i could show you that video that facist youtube deleted sense it is not politically correct of all the german citizens that marched in the streets and had signs telling the truth what a mass murderer eisenhower was. you cant find any of that stuff on youtube anymore though,they have deleted any truth videos that expose government corruption pretty much this day.them and facebook delete any of the accounts of anybody that is a trump supporter,thats how much the establishment wants him out of office as they did with jfk.
Be careful about what you see online, especially on YouTube: There are many whackos out there. Including Neo-Nazis who engage in revisionist history and so on.

Or even real Nazis. The propaganda of the German government under Nazi rule was extreme, even still today people believe some of the lies the Nazi government fed their people with back then.

For example: Did you know that in Dresden, it were most likely not 200.000 people who were killed, but more like 20.000, as historians estimate today? So how comes this example keeps being named as an example for Allied war crimes? Yep -- because of the Nazi propaganda. For decades, even historians just took the high numbers out of the Nazi propaganda. It still works today, more than 70 years later.

That said, I don't really want to engage in such a debate ... I'm not qualified, as I'm not a historian. Let the historians bicker about numbers.

My point is: Question your sources!
Especially on YouTube. Anybody can write and post their videos there ... ideologues with an agenda, hacks, even mentally insane people.
uh again youtube is deleting everything now that goes against governme
Well..when you have domestic terrorist groups with the expressed purpose of destroying our country, and system of government openly being supported by leftist voters, politicians, and media...

I would say that is the first thing that needs to stop.

I don't know what it looks like to a foreigner, but it's really pretty simple for a lot of us patriotic Americans..

You got the right side that loves this country, and will die to the last defending it..then you got left :uhoh3: :cuckoo:
I disagree... I would be considered by many as a “Leftist” but I love America. You’re reading the situation incorrectly
yeah sure you love America,thats why you want a facist warmonger as president,you love these mass murdering globalist presidents like bush and obama who hate americans.:auiqs.jpg:
Just because you decide to call them names that doesn’t make it so.
 
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I disagree... I would be considered by many as a “Leftist” but I love America. You’re reading the situation incorrectly
So we haven't been seeing the leftist domestic terrorist groups Antifa and BLM tearing up the country for the past year, while Democrats shower them with support?

Oh, and then didn't your candidates Biden/Harris bail them out of jail to do it all over again?...I was just imagining that? It didn't really happen? Oh wait..It totally did..


The political party never supported the violence, they supported the message and fight for equality and better treatment of minorities. I know the right wing likes to conflate to two but you’re not fooling anybody
It was one of the things that bothered me about Trump ... when that black man became victim of police violence and the protests broke out, I thought to myself "well it's not okay to riot, to damage things or people, but it's so perfectly understandable that these people are angry and peaceful protests should be encouraged".

So I assumed a responsible American President would say just that: That he condemns violence or damaging property, but that he has sympathies for those who protest peacefully and he will do his best to make sure there will be legal consequences for the perpetrators.

But Trump? He did nothing of that kind. He labelled all people who protested alike, the rioters just like the majority of peaceful protesters as "domestic terrorists" to win brownie points with genuine racists.

I don't think a President who is that divisive is a good choice for America.
 

Slade3200

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I disagree... I would be considered by many as a “Leftist” but I love America. You’re reading the situation incorrectly
So we haven't been seeing the leftist domestic terrorist groups Antifa and BLM tearing up the country for the past year, while Democrats shower them with support?

Oh, and then didn't your candidates Biden/Harris bail them out of jail to do it all over again?...I was just imagining that? It didn't really happen? Oh wait..It totally did..


slade gets his ass handed to him on a platter after getting OWNED,:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::auiqs.jpg::auiqs.jpg::auiqs.jpg::auiqs.jpg:
Y’all have an interesting perspective of reality. Haha
 

Slade3200

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anyways im bored of this thread,ive said eveything i had to say.
Haha, somehow I doubt that you’re done. But if we are lucky enough for that to be so then thank you for stoping the pollution!!
 

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Okay. So do you think this situation should just go on as before, or do you have ideas what could be done to improve it?
Well, we could spank the naughty opposition, but then they'd just mop the floors with our kindergarteners. <giggle>
Serious today--not!
 

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I disagree... I would be considered by many as a “Leftist” but I love America. You’re reading the situation incorrectly
So we haven't been seeing the leftist domestic terrorist groups Antifa and BLM tearing up the country for the past year, while Democrats shower them with support?

Oh, and then didn't your candidates Biden/Harris bail them out of jail to do it all over again?...I was just imagining that? It didn't really happen? Oh wait..It totally did..


The political party never supported the violence, they supported the message and fight for equality and better treatment of minorities. I know the right wing likes to conflate to two but you’re not fooling anybody
It was one of the things that bothered me about Trump ... when that black man became victim of police violence and the protests broke out, I thought to myself "well it's not okay to riot, to damage things or people, but it's so perfectly understandable that these people are angry and peaceful protests should be encouraged".

So I assumed a responsible American President would say just that: That he condemns violence or damaging property, but that he has sympathies for those who protest peacefully and he will do his best to make sure there will be legal consequences for the perpetrators.

But Trump? He did nothing of that kind. He labelled all people who protested alike, the rioters just like the majority of peaceful protesters as "domestic terrorists" to win brownie points with genuine racists.

I don't think a President who is that divisive is a good choice for America.
Well said and a great articulation of what happened and how Trump attacks most issues
 

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I've also seen videos of KKK members praising Donald Trump and some far-right groups showing the Hitler salute after praising Trump ... and Trump instigating the violent far-right group "Proud Boys" to "stand ready" on national tv.
This is all part of the leftist fake news media complex that for 4 years + has done everything in their power to paint Trump, and his supporters as racists, and far right extremists.

Even though Trump has condemned white supremacists in all forms for the better part of two decades


But let's look at that reasoning (an excuse leftists use to riot), and trivialize violence from their side..

Richard Spencer showed his support for Biden..


Does that mean we can now classify all Biden supporters as violent white nationalists? Just because some bad people showed Biden support?

I mean.. I disagree with all the messaging, and ideology of people in Antifa/BLM and think them very bad people.. Does that excuse, or give me justification to riot, burn, loot and murder on Biden voters? Because that is the rationale those folks use..

Trump cannot prevent people from supporting him the most he can do is disavow them.. which he has consistently done for decades.

But the leftists don't care that Trump has done this.. Taking every opportunity to constantly still deride him, and his supporters as racists and white supremacists...How do you rationalize with people like that as you suggest we should be?

How do you open dialogue with people who don't want to talk to you, simply because of what politics you have, and will be openly violent with you at the behest of the Democrat politicians they vote for?


I am all for your suggestions?

But back to the point..following your logic thru.. then all of violence we see coming from the left is justified in some way because there are bad people supporting the President?

It seems that is your only justification for rationalizing the constant violence the left has been perpetuating in this country for years.

And again the violence committed by any of these so called "kkk, White supremacists", or Proud Boys groups is a drop in the ocean compared to what we have been seeing from the left for the better part of the past decade in this country.


I would also like to again point out that the white supremacists Boogeymans in America narrative that the media you seem to have been exposed to.. is largely a falsehood.

In 2016 the SPLC (which is a questionable source at best I know) said there were somewhere around 900 hate groups in the US.


Of those 900 hate groups about 50% are considered white supremacists/nationalists.

You ever notice that when the media is talking about "white supremacists" they never give an actual number?

That's because in a country of well over 300 million people..the actual number of white supremacists/nationalists registered to these groups is very small.

It's highly likely that it's no more than a few thousand members.


So did the 70 million people who voted for Trump all do so as part of some secret white supremacist plot?

Or is it possible they are all just people who don't agree with the woke leftists rioting that hate this country?

And are just pushing back against a violent pervasive increasingly radical extremist Democrat ideology that they don't agree with?

The leftist media, and groups like the ADL/SPLC are constantly hate/fear mongering to make our population think there's more of a legitimate threat about racial injustice or extremists in America than there is ..because they have a vested interest in maintaining that narrative.






So yeah, I am all for coming together with these folks. Most of my family are life long Democrat voters. I have voted for more Democrats than Republicans in my life.

I just honestly believe that the left has the biggest portion of the blame recently for where we find ourselves. And needs to make the most sincere and greatest concessions/apologies.

What Democrats have been condoning fostering, propagating, supporting is dangerous, and will only lead this country to further ruin.
 
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