The Unforgiveable Sin.

[The Rabbi]

Tell me please, when did beelzebub ever heal the sickly or feed the 5000 hungry?

or precisely, when did Beelzebub cast out Demons?*

Well Bilaam was able to make miracles. So were Pharaoh's magicians. Why should this be any different? Isn't this more in line with the false prophet in Leviticus?

Satan also has power and deciples. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

I didn't know you were a Zoroastrian. Kewl.

 

[Care4all]

Yes, mocking the Holy Ghost is the sin that Jesus named as ungorgivable.

Holy Spirit, not ghost.

Definitions of holy ghost on the Web:the third person in the Trinity; Jesus promised the Apostles that he would send the Holy Spirit after his Crucifixion and Resurrection

For them, for the Apostles and believers to do wonders, no?

My point is, that the Holy Spirit was obviously present with Jesus, because Jesus said that the Pharisees sinned against the Holy Spirit.. (who through Christ, casted out demons)

So, the Holy Spirit, was here on Earth, BEFORE Christ said he would send the Holy Spirit to his disciples...no?

Care

 

[midcan5]

Don't worry folks, Indulgences are available for all sins, even retroactively. Prices are fair and commensurate with sin, so skip purgatory or skip the next phase, and go right to Heaven / Nirvana. Written guarantee too, if you are unhappy with the next world. Refunds and even shipping charge included. Sign up here. www.oneborneveryminute dot net.

 

[The Rabbi]

Holy Spirit, not ghost.

Definitions of holy ghost on the Web:the third person in the Trinity; Jesus promised the Apostles that he would send the Holy Spirit after his Crucifixion and Resurrection

For them, for the Apostles and believers to do wonders, no?

My point is, that the Holy Spirit was obviously present with Jesus, because Jesus said that the Pharisees sinned against the Holy Spirit.. (who through Christ, casted out demons)

So, the Holy Spirit, was here on Earth, BEFORE Christ said he would send the Holy Spirit to his disciples...no?

Care

And the Pharisees are still around and Jesus is long dust.
Your point?

 

[Care4all]

Definitions of holy ghost on the Web:the third person in the Trinity; Jesus promised the Apostles that he would send the Holy Spirit after his Crucifixion and Resurrection

For them, for the Apostles and believers to do wonders, no?

My point is, that the Holy Spirit was obviously present with Jesus, because Jesus said that the Pharisees sinned against the Holy Spirit.. (who through Christ, casted out demons)

So, the Holy Spirit, was here on Earth, BEFORE Christ said he would send the Holy Spirit to his disciples...no?

Care

And the Pharisees are still around and Jesus is long dust.
Your point?

Was I talkin to you? Was I talkin to you?
-----------------------------------------------

Who are the PHARISEES of today that were there in Christ's time....seems to me, they'd be dust as well....no?

 

[The Rabbi]

For them, for the Apostles and believers to do wonders, no?

My point is, that the Holy Spirit was obviously present with Jesus, because Jesus said that the Pharisees sinned against the Holy Spirit.. (who through Christ, casted out demons)

So, the Holy Spirit, was here on Earth, BEFORE Christ said he would send the Holy Spirit to his disciples...no?

Care

And the Pharisees are still around and Jesus is long dust.
Your point?

Was I talkin to you? Was I talkin to you?
-----------------------------------------------

Who are the PHARISEES of today that were there in Christ's time....seems to me, they'd be dust as well....no?

Translation: I really don't have any answers but can't admit I am wrong.

 

[Big Fitz]

AFAIK, the unforgivable sin was the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. It's ambiguous in it's meaning. I've heard people say it means all sorts of things, from refusing to speak up for God during the end times to any number of other sins. I've heard people even work themselves into knots to say it was abortion. I don't know for sure.

That being said, you have to consider this question in regards to scripture: If God is who He says he is in the Bible, and that book is His message to us, why would He either be so callous or so weak as to let man or satan tamper with His word to take it away from what He intends it to say?

Either you have to believe that pretty much everything in the book is a total lie (which is hard since so much archeological truth has been found there) or if it is true, God is real and these things will come to pass. We just don't understand how.

As for the "Show me where Jesus wrote in the Bible" argument, most historical documents were not written by the participants in the events. Almost all of them are second hand accounts of what happened. Remember, all the New Testament (particularly the Gospels) has been shown (if archeology is correct) to have been written inside the lifespans of those who were alive at the time of Jesus or shortly after. That may not seem like much time in the information age, but back then, that was nothing. There were people alive at the time who could say "this is/this isn't true, I was there and this is what really happened." I'm sure there had been accounts in the past that people did fudge the details, but chances are quite good they are not included in the Bible. The Council of Nicaea as far as I am concerned is a proof of God's power itself.

Anyway, I digress, but hopefully added some to the conversation.

 

[Newby]

Don't worry folks, Indulgences are available for all sins, even retroactively. Prices are fair and commensurate with sin, so skip purgatory or skip the next phase, and go right to Heaven / Nirvana. Written guarantee too, if you are unhappy with the next world. Refunds and even shipping charge included. Sign up here. www.oneborneveryminute dot net.

Is that kind of how like how buying carbon credits is going to work? You can buy as many carbon indulgences as you like while still supposedly destroying the planet? It appears that being a Warmer is every bit like following a made up religion, doesn't it?

 

[amrchaos]

your speaking of this, In Romans 1:28, we read of those who “God gave …over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient.” Here, the meaning is not only of rejection but abandonment. These people had gone so far in sin, “they did not like to retain God in their knowledge,” and so God gave them what they wanted. They did not want God, righteousness, holiness, cleanness, or purity, so God “gave them over.” These people are reprobate because of their hatred toward God.

I have a question. How do you know that these people that were "gave over" hated God??


If it is because they disobeyed Gods commandments, that is why they hate God?
Is it because they did not know god or doubt the existance of god is because they hate god?


Or where there some action such as admitting they hate god is why they are considered to hate God?

Understand--A child could do all three things above to a parent, but deep down they may not hate the parent. So one need to ask, is the Bible correct and truthful when it makes such sweeping generalizations??


I claim that the theologians that wrote such passages did not know everything and was winging it as they wrote it.

Could an atheist have a (reprobate mind), seeing how they knew god, but turned away from god forever. Is it a sin to tell your child there is no god? The people Paul is discussing in Romans chapter 1 are godless and wicked men who suppress the truth by their wickedness (Romans 1:18). Paul claims that

"they knew God, [however] they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles" (verses 21-23).
Paul is railing against some vile people who crept into the early church and began to teach other things, other doctrines, other gospels, and were successful at leading many astray. It was a problem right from the start, and it has continued to be a problem down to this very day! Perhaps as we continue reading what Paul said in Romans chapter 1, we might recognize some people or organizations in the news today!

So crosses, fish symbols and other forms of symbolism in the Christian church are the results of wicked and evil men that turn against god?

Man, each time the religious makes a claim, they prove the New Atheists right!!!

Crosses and other religious symbols are to be banned everywhere--especially in the Church!!!

This is knee-slapping Jaw dropping hilarious!!!

Hey froggy, How about those damn Methodists and their crosses with the holy flame symbolism? Can you say the Meth-addicts are on a Highway to Hell.

Boy, the Bible and the people that espouse every word of it just kills me. Ouch--my side is beginning to hurt from the laughter!!

 

[ABikerSailor]

I take anything that comes out of the Catholic church as highly suspect.

Yeshua (Jesus) wasn't born on December 25th, that was a lie which was cooked up to sell Christianity to the pagans, because December 25th is when the pagans celebrated the solstice in the form of the holiday Saturnalia.

Yeshua was NOT resurrected when the Catholics say He was, because He was crucified after Passover, which is based on lunar cycles, not on the Spring Solstice. Because they were trying to sell the story of Christ to the pagans, they (the Catholics) knew that they would also need another holiday to cover the other solstice.

That, incidentally, is why Easter and resurrection is closely associated with eggs and rabbits, as well as why there is a sunrise service on Easter.

Christians also got their translation of the OT wrong, because in the 10 Commandments, it's not "thou shalt not kill", it's "thou shalt not MURDER".

So, because of those things, anything that is written in the NT is highly suspect, especially if Catholics say it's so.

 

[bodecea]

Yes, mocking the Holy Ghost is the sin that Jesus named as ungorgivable.

Not........UNGORGIVABLE!!!!???? Anything but THAT!!!!!!!

 

[Newby]

I have a question. How do you know that these people that were "gave over" hated God??


If it is because they disobeyed Gods commandments, that is why they hate God?
Is it because they did not know god or doubt the existance of god is because they hate god?


Or where there some action such as admitting they hate god is why they are considered to hate God?

Understand--A child could do all three things above to a parent, but deep down they may not hate the parent. So one need to ask, is the Bible correct and truthful when it makes such sweeping generalizations??


I claim that the theologians that wrote such passages did not know everything and was winging it as they wrote it.

Could an atheist have a (reprobate mind), seeing how they knew god, but turned away from god forever. Is it a sin to tell your child there is no god? The people Paul is discussing in Romans chapter 1 are godless and wicked men who suppress the truth by their wickedness (Romans 1:18). Paul claims that

"they knew God, [however] they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles" (verses 21-23).
Paul is railing against some vile people who crept into the early church and began to teach other things, other doctrines, other gospels, and were successful at leading many astray. It was a problem right from the start, and it has continued to be a problem down to this very day! Perhaps as we continue reading what Paul said in Romans chapter 1, we might recognize some people or organizations in the news today!

So crosses, fish symbols and other forms of symbolism in the Christian church are the results of wicked and evil men that turn against god?

Man, each time the religious makes a claim, they prove the New Atheists right!!!

Crosses and other religious symbols are to be banned everywhere--especially in the Church!!!

This is knee-slapping Jaw dropping hilarious!!!

Hey froggy, How about those damn Methodists and their crosses with the holy flame symbolism? Can you say the Meth-addicts are on a Highway to Hell.

Boy, the Bible and the people that espouse every word of it just kills me. Ouch--my side is beginning to hurt from the laughter!!

I really feel sorry for you, you obviously have a major emotional problem with religion. I haven't read many of your posts, so I don't know if it's only christianity that you despise so much, or just religion in general. It's not something superficial apparently since you feel the need to attempt to belittle and humiliate another's beliefs so strongly and completely. You apprently don't have the maturity or the mental capacity to deal with your insecurities so you lash out as a child would to its parent when it doesn't understand something. I think you need to seek help and try to understand why you have the need to belittle others in order to make your own self image somehow better because it's apprently not working. I'll pray for you.

 

[amrchaos]

And how do we know that the healing etc did NOT come from Beelzebub?

Because the bible says so, and tje bible is right because the bible says so.

I question the validity of the Bible.

And please do not use that illogical nonsense that Theologians love to use--You know--Jerusalem is in the Bible, Mt Calvary is in the Bible. Therefore the Bible is 100% authentic.

I can create a religion and put those places in the holy book of that religion. Does that make that religion valid?? The answerr is no!!

You need an example Here is the book of Atheism--revised!!


Page 1

There is no God

Page 2
The nation called America is home to the New Atheist Revised Movement

Page 3
The end.


Now follow the argument!!

Since America is a place that exist, and it is noted in the New Atheist revised Holy book, I must therefore come to the conclusion there is no god. What an illogical way to prove there is no God!! Yet, theologians wish to use this type of flimflam to justify all claims in the Bible!!

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Nice try, archaos, but anything not the Bible is the Devil. The Bible says so.

 

[amrchaos]

Could an atheist have a (reprobate mind), seeing how they knew god, but turned away from god forever. Is it a sin to tell your child there is no god? The people Paul is discussing in Romans chapter 1 are godless and wicked men who suppress the truth by their wickedness (Romans 1:18). Paul claims that

"they knew God, [however] they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles" (verses 21-23).
Paul is railing against some vile people who crept into the early church and began to teach other things, other doctrines, other gospels, and were successful at leading many astray. It was a problem right from the start, and it has continued to be a problem down to this very day! Perhaps as we continue reading what Paul said in Romans chapter 1, we might recognize some people or organizations in the news today!

So crosses, fish symbols and other forms of symbolism in the Christian church are the results of wicked and evil men that turn against god?

Man, each time the religious makes a claim, they prove the New Atheists right!!!

Crosses and other religious symbols are to be banned everywhere--especially in the Church!!!

This is knee-slapping Jaw dropping hilarious!!!

Hey froggy, How about those damn Methodists and their crosses with the holy flame symbolism? Can you say the Meth-addicts are on a Highway to Hell.

Boy, the Bible and the people that espouse every word of it just kills me. Ouch--my side is beginning to hurt from the laughter!!

I really feel sorry for you, you obviously have a major emotional problem with religion. I haven't read many of your posts, so I don't know if it's only christianity that you despise so much, or just religion in general. It's not something superficial apparently since you feel the need to attempt to belittle and humiliate another's beliefs so strongly and completely. You apprently don't have the maturity or the mental capacity to deal with your insecurities so you lash out as a child would to its parent when it doesn't understand something. I think you need to seek help and try to understand why you have the need to belittle others in order to make your own self image somehow better because it's apprently not working. I'll pray for you.

Your attempts to insult me only reveals that you are practicing a form of projection.

Do not believe me? Let us take a look--
The Bible has this quote

"they knew God, [however] they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles" (verses 21-23).

It basically translate to avoiding graven images of god, but it is now pointing directly at the crucifix.

Yet, when the New Atheists comes along and say "No crucifixes in public places", it becomes justified, through the religion, that such practice and symbolism is blasphemy.

Do you not find that hilarious? Or are you upset that some one criticizing Chrisstianity??

 

[Newby]

So crosses, fish symbols and other forms of symbolism in the Christian church are the results of wicked and evil men that turn against god?

Man, each time the religious makes a claim, they prove the New Atheists right!!!

Crosses and other religious symbols are to be banned everywhere--especially in the Church!!!

This is knee-slapping Jaw dropping hilarious!!!

Hey froggy, How about those damn Methodists and their crosses with the holy flame symbolism? Can you say the Meth-addicts are on a Highway to Hell.

Boy, the Bible and the people that espouse every word of it just kills me. Ouch--my side is beginning to hurt from the laughter!!

I really feel sorry for you, you obviously have a major emotional problem with religion. I haven't read many of your posts, so I don't know if it's only christianity that you despise so much, or just religion in general. It's not something superficial apparently since you feel the need to attempt to belittle and humiliate another's beliefs so strongly and completely. You apprently don't have the maturity or the mental capacity to deal with your insecurities so you lash out as a child would to its parent when it doesn't understand something. I think you need to seek help and try to understand why you have the need to belittle others in order to make your own self image somehow better because it's apprently not working. I'll pray for you.

Your attempts to insult me only reveals that you are practicing a form of projection.

Do not believe me? Let us take a look--
The Bible has this quote

"they knew God, [however] they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles" (verses 21-23).

It basically translate to avoiding graven images of god, but it is now pointing directly at the crucifix.

Yet, when the New Atheists comes along and say "No crucifixes in public places", it becomes justified, through the religion, that such practice and symbolism is blasphemy.

Do you not find that hilarious? Or are you upset that some one criticizing Chrisstianity??

I'm insulting you while you're insulting anyone that is a christian, and I am the one that is 'projecting'? That's a good one.

Why don't you tell me why you feel the need to bash something that you don't believe in? Why bother? Why do you make the effort or even care?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Nice try, archaos, but anything not the Bible is the Devil. The Bible says so.

Actually............the KJV Bible is really not quite as good as you'd like to believe.

Try a thing called the Nicene Council sometime, you'll find out how badly they butchered the Bible, Old Testament (SEVERELY shortened the book of Daniel as well as others), but also decided when it came to the New Testament, which gospels would be allowed, and which others would be banned. History Channel's "Banned From the Bible" series is pretty good.

Additionally, combine that with the fact that the KJV is the Bible ALSO used by the Catholic church, and you can begin to see the problems..........

The Catholics combined pagan beliefs with Judaic and Christian, which is how you came up with all sorts of graven images being worshiped. Crucifix, Mary, Jesus, the Saints, etc.

Also explains why Christmas is on the Winter Solstice, and Easter happens on the Spring Solstice. Yeshua was actually born mid-late October. Also explains why rabbits and eggs (pagan fertility symbols), are used to symbolize the holiday as well.

Know why they picked the Spring Solstice? Well, aside from the symbolism of the resurrection signaling re-birth, there is also the facts of what actually happened.

Yeshua was in Jerusalem because of the Jewish celebration of Passover. He went to the Temple to give an offering, and that is when the Jewish High Priests took Him into custody and crucified Him.

Incidentally, that happened at around the same time as the Spring Solstice. The Catholics saw a great opportunity to sell it to the pagans, so the association of crucifixion, eggs, and rabbits began.

Also explains why recently Passover came AFTER Easter, because pagan holidays are based on solar cycles (solstices), but Jewish holidays are based on LUNAR cycles. Because, even though I know Yeshua can do just about anything, I don't think He's going to go celebrate and be captured in the garden AFTER He's been crucified.

See the problem with trusting the Bible?

Personally? I think the Torah and the Jews have the most right about God.

 

[amrchaos]

I'm insulting you while you're insulting anyone that is a christian, and I am the one that is 'projecting'? That's a good one.

Why don't you tell me why you feel the need to bash something that you don't believe in? Why bother? Why do you make the effort or even care?

Ask this question Newby--How did I insult the Christians?

How am I bashing them? Or am I pointing something out in Christianity that you have identifiied with and feel that it needs protection? Although the Bible, itself, is denouncing that behavior!!


Project much? Yes you do!!

 

[☭proletarian☭]

ABikerSailor is a satanist devil worshiper who's trying to lead people away from God by lying about the Bible.

The bible has been proven to be true- all the evidence you need is in the bible.

 

[amrchaos]

ABikerSailor is a satanist devil worshiper who's trying to lead people away from God by lying about the Bible.

The bible has been proven to be true- all the evidence you need is in the bible.

OH quit it Prolet

Your attempts to annoy a believer is failing. Instead, do what I just did. Show them how far they have left their religion.

Tjhe next thing you know, you will have people accusing you of insulting them for pointing out the flaws of their current practices!! Do not believe me? Read the exchanges between Newby and I!!